Disarming and picking up weapons

[Doomwhispo]

The way disarming seems to work a fighter could disarm an npc and any player after that could just use a bonus action to pick up the enemy weapon. Isn't that a bit OP? Am I missing something? Should the npc contest the player trying to pick up the weapon, effectively picking it back up himself if the player fails?
Please hel me out I'm new to dm :)

[Sir cryosin]

The way disarming seems to work a fighter could disarm an npc and any player after that could just use a bonus action to pick up the enemy weapon. Isn't that a bit OP? Am I missing something? Should the npc contest the player trying to pick up the weapon, effectively picking it back up himself if the player fails?
Please hel me out I'm new to dm :)

Disarming is not always dropping the weapon. He could disarm a enemy and end up holding it. It not just a movie move.

[gfishfunk]

Three theories:

1. The item (not necessarily a weapon) is dropped in the 5' square space that the enemy occupies. Only the enemy can get to it, so in order to get at the dropped item, something else needs to occur: mage hand, shoving the enemy away, etc.

2. The item can be obtained by anyone else adjacent.

3. A contest occurs where the enemy and the PC can both 'jump after' the weapon, perhaps Dex v. Str, athletics v. athletics, or some such.

The rules are not clear on this - you as a DM) have the power to determine what you would like to do. I recommend the second option, as the disarm already requires a specific check. There is no need to require additional checks for something that should be inherently rewarding.

[Shaofoo]

There is no "bonus action to pick up a weapon". Bonus actions are not used unless a specific action says that it is needed. It is an object interaction to be taken with an action or movement.

Also when you disarm the weapon lands on the enemy space on his feet, so that is to be considered.

There is no actual rules as to contesting picking up weapons, it depends on the DM. By actual RAW it is either no contest or impossible since you can't reach at all.

There is no true answer to be found here, it all depends on the DM.

[hymer]

The way disarming seems to work a fighter could disarm an npc and any player after that could just use a bonus action to pick up the enemy weapon.

I think only Thief Rogues can use their bonus action to interact with an object. It's actually worse than what you're suggesting, because any PC could use their free item interaction to pick the dropped weapon up - if they have a free hand.


Isn't that a bit OP?

I've never actually seen it in play, so take this with a grain of salt: Plenty of enemies can't be disarmed usefully. Animals and monsters with natural attacks, and those who use magic to fight. And many of those who can have secondary fighting capabilites, and aren't entirely out of the fight just because they lost their weapon. And if someone kills one of its friends, it can pick up a weapon as easily as the PCs can.
That said, I can see the point if the end-of-arc boss is a Knight, and you get rid of his greatsword. Hopefully, the DM won't make it more interesting next time around.

[Alejandro]

I think only Thief Rogues can use their bonus action to interact with an object. It's actually worse than what you're suggesting, because any PC could use their free item interaction to pick the dropped weapon up - if they have a free hand.



I've never actually seen it in play, so take this with a grain of salt: Plenty of enemies can't be disarmed usefully. Animals and monsters with natural attacks, and those who use magic to fight. And many of those who can have secondary fighting capabilites, and aren't entirely out of the fight just because they lost their weapon. And if someone kills one of its friends, it can pick up a weapon as easily as the PCs can.
That said, I can see the point if the end-of-arc boss is a Knight, and you get rid of his greatsword. Hopefully, the DM won't make it more interesting next time around.

I've never seen it actually happen in play either. Heck, my own high level fighter carries several backup weapons, but he's never needed any of them. I'd expect any similarly dangerous enemy warrior to own and carry at least a dagger to back up their sword. :) So while you might disarm an enemy, they'll likely just draw another.

[RickAllison]

I've never seen it actually happen in play either. Heck, my own high level fighter carries several backup weapons, but he's never needed any of them. I'd expect any similarly dangerous enemy warrior to own and carry at least a dagger to back up their sword. :) So while you might disarm an enemy, they'll likely just draw another.

Indeed. It is a useful maneuver, certainly (going from a 2d6 to a 1d4? Yup, I call that a smart move), but it isn't going to trivialize the encounter. The disarm could be performed against the player to get the weapon back.

[gfishfunk]

I've never actually seen it in play, so take this with a grain of salt: Plenty of enemies can't be disarmed usefully. Animals and monsters with natural attacks, and those who use magic to fight. And many of those who can have secondary fighting capabilites, and aren't entirely out of the fight just because they lost their weapon. And if someone kills one of its friends, it can pick up a weapon as easily as the PCs can.
That said, I can see the point if the end-of-arc boss is a Knight, and you get rid of his greatsword. Hopefully, the DM won't make it more interesting next time around.


I've never seen it actually happen in play either. Heck, my own high level fighter carries several backup weapons, but he's never needed any of them. I'd expect any similarly dangerous enemy warrior to own and carry at least a dagger to back up their sword. :) So while you might disarm an enemy, they'll likely just draw another.

I have had that happen - and I (as DM) will generally leave the weapon on the ground and pull out a smaller, lower hit die weapon. Drop the great sword? Pull out the short sword. That is a great benefit to the players (much lighter hit) but does not nerf the encounter entirely.

If it is early in the fight, the enemy might go after the weapon again after a round but the players get an immediate benefit and at least one round without the weapon.

[warty goblin]

I'm not sure this is as OP as it seems, mostly because there aren't that many situations where the player really *wants* to end up with two weapons.

If they're wielding a two handed weapon, they can't attack with it while holding a second weapon.
If they're fighting with a one handed weapon and no shield, they can pick up the weapon, but lose the Duelist fighting style bonus damage.
If they're fighting with a one handed weapon and a shield, how are they supposed to pick up a weapon off the ground using their shield hand? They could drop their weapon, but how often is it worth trading an NPC weapon for your favorite sword?
If they're dual wielding, they have to drop a weapon, and the same question applies.



Really, the only time this comes off as super-useful is if they're specced for dual wielding, and for some reason only have one weapon. In which case it's just a really cool move that totally screws over one dude. Either he's a mook, in which case it's cool and badass, or he's a really big deal dude, in which case he should really be carrying an emergency backup weapon.

[RickAllison]

I'm not sure this is as OP as it seems, mostly because there aren't that many situations where the player really *wants* to end up with two weapons.

If they're wielding a two handed weapon, they can't attack with it while holding a second weapon.
If they're fighting with a one handed weapon and no shield, they can pick up the weapon, but lose the Duelist fighting style bonus damage.
If they're fighting with a one handed weapon and a shield, how are they supposed to pick up a weapon off the ground using their shield hand? They could drop their weapon, but how often is it worth trading an NPC weapon for your favorite sword?
If they're dual wielding, they have to drop a weapon, and the same question applies.



Really, the only time this comes off as super-useful is if they're specced for dual wielding, and for some reason only have one weapon. In which case it's just a really cool move that totally screws over one dude. Either he's a mook, in which case it's cool and badass, or he's a really big deal dude, in which case he should really be carrying an emergency backup weapon.

I still like the Ezio Auditore style of fighting unarmed, then countering to disarm and turn the enemy's weapons against them. There is something satisfying about the idea of leaving someone impaled/bisected by their own weapon!

[Doomwhispo]

Thanks a lot guys for all the feedback this was really helpful

[warty goblin]

I still like the Ezio Auditore style of fighting unarmed, then countering to disarm and turn the enemy's weapons against them. There is something satisfying about the idea of leaving someone impaled/bisected by their own weapon!

That is also excellent. I think there's plenty of cool stuff you can do with disarms, but it's situational. Which seems exactly right to me, it's a really nifty thing a martial character can exploit in the right situation, but probably isn't something they're gonna be doing with every other attack or anything like that. For one thing, no matter what they start holding, they're gonna run out of hands pretty fast.

[RickAllison]

That is also excellent. I think there's plenty of cool stuff you can do with disarms, but it's situational. Which seems exactly right to me, it's a really nifty thing a martial character can exploit in the right situation, but probably isn't something they're gonna be doing with every other attack or anything like that. For one thing, no matter what they start holding, they're gonna run out of hands pretty fast.

Indeed. Disarming is extremely effective on elevated platforms, though. We had a battle with some crossbowmen high above and firing on the party, so my aarakocra flew up to engage them in melee. They dropped their crossbow to use other weapons, my PC kicks it over the edge. No more crossbows!

[gfishfunk]

I've played with the idea for an Arcane Trickster Rogue / Battlemaster Fighter, disarming opponents and then mage-handing away the stuff they were carrying.

[Biggstick]

I'm not sure this is as OP as it seems, mostly because there aren't that many situations where the player really *wants* to end up with two weapons.

If they're wielding a two handed weapon, they can't attack with it while holding a second weapon.
If they're fighting with a one handed weapon and no shield, they can pick up the weapon, but lose the Duelist fighting style bonus damage.
If they're fighting with a one handed weapon and a shield, how are they supposed to pick up a weapon off the ground using their shield hand? They could drop their weapon, but how often is it worth trading an NPC weapon for your favorite sword?
If they're dual wielding, they have to drop a weapon, and the same question applies.



Really, the only time this comes off as super-useful is if they're specced for dual wielding, and for some reason only have one weapon. In which case it's just a really cool move that totally screws over one dude. Either he's a mook, in which case it's cool and badass, or he's a really big deal dude, in which case he should really be carrying an emergency backup weapon.

You could just as easily kick the weapon 10' away in any direction instead of picking it up. This creates the potential for an opportunity attack if the enemy feels it's necessary to retrieve their weapon (or at the very least, gets them to use the dis-engage option).

[warty goblin]

You could just as easily kick the weapon 10' away in any direction instead of picking it up. This creates the potential for an opportunity attack if the enemy feels it's necessary to retrieve their weapon (or at the very least, gets them to use the dis-engage option).

Kicking sharp objects may be hazardous to your health.

[TurboGhast]

Kicking sharp objects may be hazardous to your health.

This could be mitigated by wearing armored footwear, or kicking the parts of the weapon designed to be held.

[warty goblin]

Armored footwear works, although full plate seems like the only armor that would include it. Sabatons also only cover the top of the foot, the sole is still a standard shoe. I happen to have experienced what happens when a very sharp edge encounters a shoe. Good news was that the scythe only got halfway through my big toe, and the nerve damage is really pretty minor.

Some weapons are gonna be rather hard to kick at as well, simply based on their shape, and/or the terrain. Unless you kick the center of mass of a sword, it will spin, and the center of mass is - excepting rapiers - gonna be in the blade. Tall grass, crops, undergrowth, dead guys and so on will make it much more difficult to propel a weapon a useful distance. Bottom line, if you don't want a player soccer-kicking their way through the battlefield, there's plenty of ways to make it harder.

[Jaycon356]

Used this to to neuter a helmed horror encounter.

RAW, it's an interact with object to pick up an object in another creature's space (One for free as part of your movement). And as per tinyurl/zdge4cu (Can't post links yet apparently), they can't do anything about it.

If I'm not mistaken, you don't even need To be a battle master, it's just athletics v. Athletics/Acrobatics. (Don't have the phb on me atm, I believe it's around where it talks about grappling)

[RickAllison]

Used this to to neuter a helmed horror encounter.

RAW, it's an interact with object to pick up an object in another creature's space (One for free as part of your movement). And as per tinyurl/zdge4cu (Can't post links yet apparently), they can't do anything about it.

If I'm not mistaken, you don't even need To be a battle master, it's just athletics v. Athletics/Acrobatics. (Don't have the phb on me atm, I believe it's around where it talks about grappling)

Disarming is from the DMG, and it is an attack contested by Athletics (I don't remember if they can use Acrobatics).

[Plaguescarred]

The way disarming seems to work a fighter could disarm an npc and any player after that could just use a bonus action to pick up the enemy weapon. Isn't that a bit OP? Am I missing something? Should the npc contest the player trying to pick up the weapon, effectively picking it back up himself if the player fails?
Please hel me out I'm new to dm :)RAW Interacting with Objects Around You includes picking up a dropped weapon freely in
tandem with your movement and action, provided its within your reach and you have free hand to do so. It ccould be done by the disarming creature, or one of its allies on subsequent turn.

[Vogonjeltz]

The way disarming seems to work a fighter could disarm an npc and any player after that could just use a bonus action to pick up the enemy weapon. Isn't that a bit OP? Am I missing something? Should the npc contest the player trying to pick up the weapon, effectively picking it back up himself if the player fails?
Please hel me out I'm new to dm :)

Everyone can manipulate an object once per round without it costing an action (and if they did something with two objects that would cost them an action, not a bonus action). (PHB 190)

If the enemy tried to oppose the players activities they wouldn't get the item, they'd just prevent the player from getting the item. (PHB 174) However, the monster would be unable to stop the player from picking up the weapon in this case because it isn't the monsters turn.

Another option to picking up the disarmed item is that the player could kick it somewhere inconvenient. This puts the monster in the position of having to move to get the item back, likely drawing an opportunity attack for their trouble.

[Shaofoo]

Everyone can manipulate an object once per round without it costing an action (and if they did something with two objects that would cost them an action, not a bonus action). (PHB 190)

If the enemy tried to oppose the players activities they wouldn't get the item, they'd just prevent the player from getting the item. (PHB 174) However, the monster would be unable to stop the player from picking up the weapon in this case because it isn't the monsters turn.

Another option to picking up the disarmed item is that the player could kick it somewhere inconvenient. This puts the monster in the position of having to move to get the item back, likely drawing an opportunity attack for their trouble.

I think that even if it isn't the enemies turn that the enemy would still be opposing the player in getting the weapon unless the enemy doesn't care that he is disarmed of the current weapon, especially considering that when disarmed the weapon drops in the enemy's space. Remember that just because it isn't someone's turn doesn't mean that they are static.

Also kicking the item is up to the DM how far it can go. It could get caught between the monster's feet and not go anywhere. Also if you were to kick it away and the monster needs it it can Disengage to get the weapon back, no need to provoke OAs.