CL boosts, should they stack?

[Hiro Quester]

I apologize if this is answered elsewhere, but I can't find it. Searching about this mostly finds TO shenanigans for getting CL into more than 2x character level.

My 17th level Druid has an orange ioun stone. +1 CL

I have just acquired a Bead of Karma (Strand of Prayer Beads). Gives +4CL for ten minutes.

Should these stack? They both seem to be untyped bonuses.

Should the ioun stone and the bead of karma together give +5 CL for that 10 minute period?

[Bakkan]

Yep. Untyped bonuses from different sources stack.

[Necroticplague]

your phrasing of the question makes what kind of answer you look for ambiguous. Are you looking for a factual statement (I.e., "do the rules say they stack"), or are you looking for a value statement (I.e, "should these be allowed to stack y the DM). The answers to those are, respectively, 'yes' and 'depends on what they do with the CL'.

[Hiro Quester]

Yes. I know by the rules they should stack. But the DM is already concerned about party balance. Other party members are not that optimized.

DM has already ruled that I should never prepare certain spells that are officially in our books, because in my Druid's hands they would shut down entire encounters (e.g. Red Tide)

DM also ruled that a ring of counterspells made debuffing too impossible (nobody has one to sell). the bead of Karma was a compromise. I have already agreed that the Bead of Karma would only be used when I'm casting morning buff spells (Heart of X, Primal X, Greater Luminous Armor, Greater Resistance, Barkskin), to make them harder to dispel. It would not be used to power up destructive spells to ridiculous levels.

Honestly, I have no problem limiting my character's power, if it's in the interest of keeping the game balanced, and fun for everyone.

So I'm asking opinions about whether assuming they stack is in any way controversial, or using them this way, to get +5 CL; from CL 17 to CL 22) could be overpowered.

That is, would confirming with the DM that they stack incur a reaction of "Of course they stack"; why bother asking?" or him thinking "I gave him an inch and he wants to take a mile".

The only difference in whether they stack or not, it seems to me, is the duration of the spells, and the difficulty of dispelling. Few of them have other effects that depend on caster level (or if they do, I'm already past the level where that matters (e.g. barkskin is already at the +5 maximum).

But am I missing something?

[Deophaun]

If you just want the +4 CL for the purpose of dispelling, why not just use a Ring of Enduring Arcana from Complete Mage? Even if you're taking the 50% premium to tack it onto an existing ring, it's still cheaper, and it doesn't open the door up to crazy, CL-boosted effects.

[eggynack]

Doesn't seem like a problem to me, regardless of what you do with the bonus. You're justhe so high in level, and a lot of the more interesting utility, beyond better buffs, is lost to you. For example, control winds, which hit tornado two levels ago, or phantom stag, which doesn't take stacking to get etherealness. And the impact on buffs isn't great either, given that the marginal utility here is low compared to earlier levels.

[Beheld]

Long story short, it doesn't break the game, it's totally fine, but I suspect that the DM is trying to nerf you down to the level of a dead fighter at level 17, so basically everything you do is going to be too powerful.

Although honestly, it sounds like your CL will be irrelevant, because your DM decided that he hates your buffs, so he's going to Disjunction you over and over.

[Hiro Quester]

The ring of enduring Arcana I always thought only applied to arcane (not divine) casters. Looking at the description, it doesn't say that, though. That would have been a good idea.

Bit I already have the Bead of Karma Oh well. Maybe next time I'm buying magic gear. But we have been getting good treasure lately, and the bead being in treasure taken from a BBEG makes it even cheaper than buying the ring.

And the DM doesn't "hate" my buffs. But he does caution against over-reliance on them. And he doesn't want me to be too over powerful, compared to the other party members.

[Fizban]

Your full ban list would be useful for gauging where your DM is trying to set your power level, I hardly think removing the army-crushing size spells is a bad idea.

Personally I'd have already banned the Bead of Karma because it's stupid OP, but you did loot it and it does stack with the Ioun Stone. That said, in the interest of respecting the game I would ask your DM anyway because they may not have realized, and since they're already concerned you should not be trying to sneak anything by.

Dispelling and anti-dispelling are two things the game deals with very poorly. With multiple books giving out massive bonuses to either as if they're the only possible source, it becomes extremely easy to push them out of the range of anyone not similarly specialized and carrying piles of gear (much like grappling). Since most monsters and NPCs are not written to deal with this (unlike grappling), it's much easier to maintain the intended game space by just not letting them stack. Your DM has all but directly told you that your spells should remain dispelable, so clearly they do not want engage in arms-racing.

I would also point out that if your DM's first concern was caster level on combat spells, they are probably thinking about damage dice. This means the game is way lower op than eggynack or Beheld would be considering, and you should continue to be extra careful about what you bring to play. Rather than agree to a buffs only rule or worry about getting dispelled, I would suggest simply not. Ask to switch the bead for something else (since the DM clearly hadn't thought much about you looting it) and trust in the rest of your cosmic power. Or if you must worry about dispels, have it switched for the anti-dispelling ring for simplicity.