The Luckiest Gnome Barbarian/Druid... Fun or Meh?...

[Nefariis]

A guy from a game I am dm'ing is playing a Druid/Monk which seems like a pretty good time.

I was trying to tweak it a little bit and make something fun for an upcoming game I'm playing in on Wednesday, but I can't tell if he is actually going to be fun or if he is going to be fairly meh.

I'm starting at level 6, so Barbarian4 (wolf totem) / Druid2 (moon) and the race is Forest Gnome

Str: 10
Dex: 9 + 1 racial
Con: 14
Int: 14 + 2 racial
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Feat at level 4: Lucky

So while he is raging and in bear form:

His AC will be 13/14 (depending on how nice your dm is) and his saves will be

Str: 7 proficient
Con: 6 proficient
Dex: 0 with advantage from Danger Sense
Int: 3 with advantage Gnome's Cunning
Wis: 2 with advantage Gnome's Cunning
Cha: 1 with advantage Gnome's Cunning

And while raging he will have resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing

And there is the Lucky feat where, 3 times a day, he can change his fate

Pros:
- With Int, Wis, and Cha I would be very well rounded
- I have a good reserve of HP that practically doubles with resistance - that also refreshes every short rest
- All my saves are fantastic
- With reckless and wolf totem everyone on the battlefield can get advantage
- And Lucky rounds out the unpredictable

Cons:
- The biggest con I see is that I am falling behind quite at bit after level 5 with damage
- Obviously losing out on druid spell progression
- There are no feats currently that would utilize my bonus action

I get two attacks in raging bear form, +7 2d6+6 and +7 1d8+6 = 23.5 damage with no uses of a bonus action.

A level 6 Barbarian with PoleArm/GWF or Xbow/Sharpshooter could potentially get 3 attacks

(+1 1d8+15)x3 = 58.5 or (+1 1d10+15)x2 + (+1 1d4+15) = 58.5 (granted all these attacks are at only a +1, but all of them will have advantage and I fully expect to have bless on me constantly)

I could take Frenzy Berzerker instead of wolf totem to make my average damage 46.5 (even better because I don't need to take a -5 to attack), but the exhaustion penalty seems ridiculous and that would completely negate my sole purpose in taking Gnome's cunning.

Realistically though, I don't see this campaign going past level 8 or about 8 total sessions, so I'm not sure if I'm making a mountain out of nothing.

So my questions are:
- Will he be fine to level 8 or do you think that he is missing out on too much by multi-classing?
- Is his damage going to be a hindrance?
- How often do you foresee Gnome's cunning even being a factor?
- Is there anything I can do to make use of my unused bonus action - Feat/Ability/Something I'm missing?
- What should I take for levels 7 and 8?
- And most importantly, your overall impressions of the build, and if this character will be fun or meh?

Thanks guys

[BW022]

I've seen a hill dwarf barbarian 1/druid x build... it didn't go as planned.




Str: 10
Dex: 9 + 1 racial
Con: 14
Int: 14 + 2 racial
Wis: 14
Cha: 12


Not valid. You require a 13 strength to multi-class a barbarian.

In practice the barbarian/druid was a one-trick pony and the number of cases it doesn't work was pretty high. Non-strength based means you are missing out of rage damage -- when not wildshaping.

Each is useable twice per day and, there are numerous cases where each is wasted in practice. Large animals often have to revert back to humanoid form in order to cast spell, move through doorways (large animal), climb ladders/ropes, open doors, use skills, forced into ranged combat, want to use wildshape for scouting, etc. Rage can also end if you fail to take damage or attack -- which is a major problem for bears when can't navigate in many dungeons.

Nor in practice did the barbarian level help the player much. The two classes cancel most of each others features out -- wildshape the barbarians armor and physical stats, rage the druids spell casting, etc. AC on wildshape animals (even with your con+dex AC) is so much lower than most front-line builds that the extra hit points rarely last long vs. just having a better AC. Even around level 5, most creatures are doing 20hp of damage per round and a raging bear might only last three rounds. Statistically, you'd be better just in human form with a 19 or 20 AC (good armor, shield, and dex).

Will he be fine to level 8 or do you think that he is missing out on too much by multi-classing?
Fine in the 3-5 range, diminishing returns thereafter.

Is his damage going to be a hindrance?
Not really. The wildshape limitations will and dex-based build will likely hurt a if/when you can't utilize wildshape.

How often do you foresee Gnome's cunning even being a factor?
Depends on the campaign/adventure. Mind spells are far less common that damage. However, maybe you are facing an illusionists guild.

Is there anything I can do to make use of my unused bonus action - Feat/Ability/Something I'm missing?
Having spell slots of heal yourself is typically what most moon druids spend their bonus actions on.

What should I take for levels 7 and 8?
You won't get another feat. Feats are gained every four class levels, not character levels. You'll gain one feat at 6th-level when your barbarian reaches 4th-level.

And most importantly, your overall impressions of the build, and if this character will be fun or meh?
The player had fun with it. However, it wasn't a combat heavy campaign and he used wildshape mainly for non-combat encounters -- scouting, movement, spying, etc. -- and stayed in dwarf form using spells. By 6th or so, wildshape was only used in combat if he got himself in trouble. He also had a cleric buffing him and he drew a massive amount of healing. Using your druid 2/barbarian X build (with a dex build)... I don't see much of a non-wildshape roll for you in combat. You don't have the spells, multiple attacks won't happen until 7th, your stats will be heavily spread out. You lake the wisdom for a good staff/shillelagh build, strength for strength, etc. I also don't know why you have a 16 intelligence?

[Nefariis]

This guy definitely wasn't intended to be a dex build.

Sorry I guess I need a small clarification on the rules:

I always thought that if I wanted to add an addition multiclass level, I would need to use the multiclass table.

So if I went this progression:
1 Barb
2 Barb
3 Barb
4 Barb
5 Druid
6 Druid

My multilcass would be for Druid, meaning I would need 13 wisdom to enter it. I wasn't aware that if I started Barbarian at level 1, I would also need 13 strength to start barbarian.

14 Wisdom is not terrible for shillelagh and he can turn into a bear twice every short rest so I don't foresee him needing to use it all that often (at least the Druid/Monk in my game doesn't need to use his quarterstaff often). As far as Strength build, everytime he turns into a bear he gets 19str (+4) which will count towards his str based attacks for rage. I definitely don't foresee him using rage outside of bear form.

[JellyPooga]

I would be very tempted to throw a level of Rogue in the mix to grab Expertise in both Athletics and Perception. Both skills that really enhance your Wild Shape forms.

The biggest problem you have with this is that you're only going to 8th level or thereabouts. Wild Shape for a Moon Druid is phenomenal at 2nd level, but by 5th level it's starting to look lacklustre; you don't get flying forms until Druid 8th and compared to everyone else who's flying around through use of the Fly spell or magic items, your ground-pounding Bear-form is feeling limited. Then on the Barbarian side, you're also falling behind; Extra Attack coming online much later than everyone else, the lacklustre 6th level Totem...there's just not much going on.

Barbarian 4 / Druid 4 has little synergy beyond being a massive HP sponge and no effective presence on the battlefield, not to mention a distinct lack of out-of-combat utility compared to a straight Class of either.
- You only have 2nd level spells, compared to the 4th level spells a single-Class caster has.
- You don't have Extra Attack

You're not a melee guy and you're not a spellslinger. You're certainly not a skill-monkey. What does that leave? Not a great deal.

Barbarian 6/Druid 2 is probably better; you've actually got Extra Attack and 4 Rages per day, which makes you nice and tanky, but you're still using the same tired old Brown Bear form in every fight...not exactly inspiring to be rinsing and repeating the same old tricks fight-in, fight-out.

Barbarian 3/Druid 5 is probably the worst build I'll suggest; spellslinging and Raging just don't mix, not for the Druid (Wizards and Warlocks can do it well, but not Druids). You've got 3rd level spells though, which is respectable (and better than either a Paladin or an EK). Barbarian brings another layer of defenses, which is nice, but on the whole the build is pretty "meh", even with swimming forms available to you.

My advice? Go straight Druid. At 8th level, having Flying forms open up is amazing; Call Lightning + Hawk form, bringing down bolts of sky-fire as you wheel and soar above your foes is all sorts of fun and getting access to Conjure Animals at 5th and Minor Elementals and Woodland Beings at 7th are both game changing milestones.

Barbarian just isn't bringing enough to the table at low levels (i.e. below 10th) to make it worthwhile beyond about 3rd level if you're only going to ditch after 4th.

[Grubble]

My multilcass would be for Druid, meaning I would need 13 wisdom to enter it. I wasn't aware that if I started Barbarian at level 1, I would also need 13 strength to start barbarian.

You don't need any specific stat score at level 1 to take your first level, however you must meet the multiclass prerequisites of the class you're leaving and entering to take a level in another class.

[BW022]

You don't need any specific stat score at level 1 to take your first level, however you must meet the multiclass prerequisites of the class you're leaving and entering to take a level in another class.

False. PHP p163. Multiclassing - Prerequisites

"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as show in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher."

Not only do you need the 13 in both classes, the specific example in the PHB is actually a barbarian/druid.

[Nefariis]

Not only do you need the 13 in both classes, the specific example in the PHB is actually a barbarian/druid.

Huh, today I learned something new - also kind of funny it was the exact use case.


Yeah maybe I will just go Druid 6 to start. This character looks really fun on paper, but I definitely see him falling behind.

[Shining Wrath]

Moon Druid really is a solid class. It doesn't exactly cry out for multiclassing. If you're trying for excellent saves without being too MAD, maybe a Monk?