OOTS #473 - The Discussion Thread [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

kpenguin

2007-07-07, 03:40 AM

Damn. When I say the lightningbolt, I was thinking "Wooo! V's back!" Ah, well, the imminent attack is cool too.

Also, thank you for giving us information, Mr. Giant. It was very big of you (pun totally intended). Please be warned that over the next few days, the boards will probably be overrun with people trying guess what condition you have.

EDIT: What's the situation with Erfworld? I mean, in order for the comics to be there, you need to be at the desk. So will that mean that Erfworld will effectively have a random situation as well?

Dwagon

2007-07-07, 03:44 AM

Thanks for the effort and for a great strip Rich.

Best of luck with your health, I hope you get better soon.

Guildorn Tanaleth

2007-07-07, 03:44 AM

Great comic, as usual, but I feel like saying a couple things in response to the news post (assuming this is the proper place):

If you haven't already, you should right down all of your ideas for future plot arcs and associated spoilers and put them in an envelope labeled "Post to Internet in Case of Death." That way, if your disorder actually does turn out to be fatal, we'll at least get to know what the MitD is.

Secondly, not to complain, but it takes a while for the RSS feed to update after a comic is posted (at least when viewed on iGoogle), so your suggestion of subscribing to it for "near-instant" alerts of updates isn't quite as good as the idea of refreshing the comic page constantly.

Turcano

2007-07-07, 03:48 AM

Okay.

Why is that not a real TV program?

:smallmad:

Dugray

2007-07-07, 03:50 AM

Just glad to see an OOTS Comic again regardless of how late it is.

Snipers_Promise

2007-07-07, 03:51 AM

Okay.

Why is that not a real TV program?

:smallmad:

Because they hate our freedom. Great comic giant and im sorry to hear about your illness. You should also do the thing about the post in case of death.

The Wanderer

2007-07-07, 03:52 AM

First and foremost, I hope you know how much your efforts are appreciated, Giant, both in the everyday work you do on these strips and in staying up late to try to get the comics done and uploaded. Thank you, especially for thsoe days when you're not feeling up to it. Domo arrigato, sir.

Secondly, great strip. And this is going to make for another cliffhanger. Can Haley and Belkar possibly show up before Redcloak? What if they wind up separated from the rest, having to find their own boat or way across? What if Roy's body goes momentarily unclaimed by any side? And where the hell is V? (And might she wind up with Haley and Belkar if the order does get split?)

Looks like there's time for one more big showdown/climax before this arc ends.

N4L3

2007-07-07, 03:55 AM

typo: forgot the word to right before the word repel.

awesome strip

i love daigo and that one chick, they are awesome

Setra

2007-07-07, 03:56 AM

This looks like it could be very interesting.

Adeptus

2007-07-07, 03:56 AM

Nice strip.

Get better Mr. Burlew, your health is more important than the comic.

Recursive

2007-07-07, 03:57 AM

Why is that not a real TV program?

It was going to be. On the first day of filming, though, the host met a tragic yet hilarious demise involving roofing tar, collapsed scaffolding, and a small but quite fierce ocelot.

Pepz

2007-07-07, 03:58 AM

lovely comic as always :)

and yeah, good to see that Lien is still alive, guess it's that name-factor again :)
it's funny to see that Lien couldn't take Hinjo's junk, because a guy with an axe-hand didn't want her too (maybe that's just funny for me ;) )

o, and Giant, don't worry :) make sure you're feeling fine, and possibly worry about comics :) priorities ;)

Pepz

Robaato

2007-07-07, 03:59 AM

Finally got around to signing up for the forum...

Thank you, Mr. Burlew, for a great webcomic. Between this, Erfworld, and DM of the Rings, I have more than my recommended daily allowance of RPG humor...and I even remember just enough about RPGs to understand more than 90% of the jokes!

And, thanks also for keeping us updated as to the schedule. I can understand that talking about personal issues can be difficult. However, think of the good will you're getting by informing us when the comic schedule changes...

There's one webcomic (which shall remain nameless) where the posting became VERY sporadic. The artist did inform the readers that updating would be spotty for a short while -- but then one day she said that not only was the schedule getting back to normal, she'd be posting extra comics on the normally off days to catch up. Then she didn't post anything at all for two or three months -- no comics, no explanations. I gave up, and took it off the bookmark list...

...and as you can see, I have a tendency to write too much. So, if y'all have skipped to the end, let me just say again --

Thanks!

J.Gellert

2007-07-07, 04:07 AM

Great comic, and for me, Xykon manages to steal the spotlight again, even with a single text bubble! :smallbiggrin:

Freelance Henchman

2007-07-07, 04:13 AM

Great showing by Lien. And good to see Durkon being helpful.

Also: Yay, Teevo! :smallsmile:

meep

2007-07-07, 04:16 AM

Thanks for the update on scheduling. That actually will keep me from compulsively reloading the site just to see if the latest installment is there. I will go back to checking it once a day (and I'm expecting to pick up OOTS book #1 this morning, as I got into reading this strip late.... now I will have to get SoD next.)

So... I'm wondering where V is even more now, and wondering what kind of condition s/he is in. Because being invisible may be a help to Belkar & Haley trying to get Roy, though I have a feeling someone has been by and turned him into some kind of undead. Hilarity ensues.

happyturtle

2007-07-07, 04:16 AM

And the formation of a Captain Axe fan club in 10...9...8...

Skyshot

2007-07-07, 04:22 AM

Damn. When I say the lightningbolt, I was thinking "Wooo! V's back!"Yeah, when I saw the lightning bolt, I thought "wait, V's out of spells; who else is there?"

Also, I love Redcloak's casual attitude about the whole thing. "Hey, I'm gonna go cause severe property damage out of spite." I kind of wonder why he'd do that, though. He needs a boat to get to one of the gates, doesn't he?

Haruspex

2007-07-07, 04:25 AM

Heh. Captain Axe. To where would the junk be sailing I wonder? Cliffport is the only other city I know of, but they may not be too happy to see the OOTS again.

Turcano

2007-07-07, 04:28 AM

It was going to be. On the first day of filming, though, the host met a tragic yet hilarious demise involving roofing tar, collapsed scaffolding, and a small but quite fierce ocelot.

Man, I never get what I want.

Baru

2007-07-07, 04:31 AM

Daigo's stomach wound vanishes on the 6th to last panel.
Another OotS mistake to add to the collection.

kierthos

2007-07-07, 04:33 AM

So the question is, then... will Monday's comic be Redcloak vs. the Order of the Junk, or Belkar and Haley in "Dude, where's our leader's corpse?"?

rosebud

2007-07-07, 04:36 AM

Secondly, not to complain, but it takes a while for the RSS feed to update after a comic is posted (at least when viewed on iGoogle), so your suggestion of subscribing to it for "near-instant" alerts of updates isn't quite as good as the idea of refreshing the comic page constantly.A few minutes is "near-instant" and being a good web citizen. Start a new web comic to pass the time while waiting. :smallbiggrin:

Or figure out how Captain Axe would do versus Captain Hook in a fight.

So the question is, then... will Monday's comic be Redcloak vs. the Order of the Junk, or Belkar and Haley in "Dude, where's our leader's corpse?"?Yes. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, maybe. It could be Protagonist in the Afterworld or an episode of World's Funniest Protagonist Deaths.

Xandu Hotep

2007-07-07, 04:53 AM

Heh.
Capitan Axe = new favorite character?
Maybe, all my other favorites keep friggin' dying... grumble... ah, at least :belkar: is still alive. :smalltongue:

Lycar

2007-07-07, 04:57 AM

Hehe... Hinjo cutting off Elan before he gets to act out his oh-my-god-they-are-ghosts-routine was .. at least chuckle-worthy. At least it totally gets my aproaval. It's kinda like 'yes, cute, we can see where this is going, now knock it off, we still kinda have to escape a battaillon of hobgobs trying to roll over us' . :smallsmile:

And, of course, Xykon is just... being him. Hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

Lycar

DandN

2007-07-07, 04:59 AM

NOTE: Newly registered and first post, so if my incredibly astute observations I registered to comment on have already been posted long ago, feel free to ignore me and move on.

I've been feeling this ever since Haley and Belkar went off to bring back Roy's decaying corpse, but does anyone else feel that the two teams won't be reuniting as fast as people seem to think? Especially now with Redcloak off do destroy the last boat for kicks, my guess is that they'll have no choice but to take off, leaving the rest of the party behind (for the length of a sidequest or two until they're all inevitably reunited, of course).

It makes a good deal of sense (to me in storytelling terms at least), because I've been wondering since Roy's death exactly how Giant's going to deal with it. Obviously he won't be dead forever but having Durkon bring him back to life instantly after the battle makes that plot point feel pretty damn cheap. On the other hand, having Haley, Belkar and V recovering Roy's body, but not being able to get it to Durkon is ripe for all sorts of possibilities. And at the same time we'll have Elan, Durkon, Hinjo, and all them Azurite characters dealing with their own situations, probably with those pesky noblemen.

Again, dunno if it's been brought up before, but it makes sense to me to do things that way. Course it ain't my decision to make, heh.

Max_Sinister

2007-07-07, 05:05 AM

Do you think Durkon gets a gf?

kierthos

2007-07-07, 05:08 AM

Do you think Durkon gets a gf?

He had one once... it didn't work out too well.

16oz

2007-07-07, 05:08 AM

Woohoo! Much goodness all around! Finding out that Lien is still alive, and with a great bit of background info too, seeing that Daigo and Kazumi made it back to the boat (although NOBODY else knows their names yet.. wonder if they can get Name Bonuses again?).

Redclaok worries me though. The number of spells he used against the other cleric, one would hope, would limit how many he still has available, since there hasn't been any time for him to regain his full compliment, but I now once again feel much fear for all the secondary Azure City characters at the junk (Captain Axe! Much coolness! Fastest man when it comes to leaving port in a hurry I bet.).

How I hope the showdown ends?
V also sees the boat remaining at the dock from afar, and heads there to try to escape the city. As Redclaok starts casting a final, huge spell to sink the boat and slay all aboard it, V whacks him upside the head from behind with a piece of rubble and says some sort of cool line that will make me laugh.

Grumpy_Frenchman

2007-07-07, 05:17 AM

Lien is still alive! Yayness!

And she's still hot too... :smallredface:

On a side note: thanks for keeping us informed of the situation. My best wishes for your health and continued well-being, and don't worry about us. We love the comic; we'll be here whenever you post a new one. :smallbiggrin:

Dragon48

2007-07-07, 05:22 AM

Awesome comic. I sure hope though that the OotS and Hinjo escape in time with Haley and Belkar and Roy's body before Redcloack will get to them. :(

Finn Solomon

2007-07-07, 05:59 AM

I enjoyed this one, and it looks like Lien and Cap'n Axe will be prominent for a few more strips to come. That's great.

On the bad side, still no Roy! Oh well, at least it'll be all the more exciting when he finally gets back.

Surfing HalfOrc

2007-07-07, 06:19 AM

Do you think Durkon gets a gf?

He had one, there was a bit of the old "Bow Chicka Bow Wow," and then he broke it off with her after he found out she was married.

I've also been wondering if he had a "Dwarven Defender" at the time as well. Is there a little Durkon, Jr. running (crawling) around somewhere? How long has it been, in "game time," since Durkon and Hilgya's... um... side-quest?

Durkon is far too lawful to go, "It ain't mine! You better go find the real daddy and hit him up for child support!" No, Durkon will probably have to quit adventuring and raise a family. That is, if Hilgya will want him. Hell hath no fury, and all that.

geek_2049

2007-07-07, 06:24 AM

O.T.R

2007-07-07, 06:38 AM

I think Redcloak's going to die before #500 is up, or as a clmax to the Seige story arc.

After his change of heart and acceptance of his responsibility to the Hobgoblins, I'm guessing the Order will take him out before he has a chance to, in his own evil way, fully regain his honour. It's a rule of Cosmic Irony.

Xykon won't be accompanying him either, which is telegraphing something to us, I'm guessing Redclock's loss in a battle with the order. And without Redcloak, there's nothing to keep Xykon from leaving Azure City to build a new minion army for the next gate

OwN

2007-07-07, 06:49 AM

Irbis

2007-07-07, 07:08 AM

Wait, only two pages onn latest, and quite good comic after several hours? :smallconfused:

I've been here for about year now and that's kind of a sad record. :smallfrown:

I hope both reader levels and your own health will get as good as they were as soon as possible.

NeonRonin

2007-07-07, 07:15 AM

That was very nice. First we have Lien spearing hobbos, then (as everyone points out) the :smallsmile: ness that is Captain Axe. And the Teevo, too! All in all, a very good combination of stuff... and Xykon's just as 'Xykon' as ever. Now if only we knew where V was, it'd all be perfect...

Still, I'm sure V will be revealed at the appropriate time, just when the world needs a V.

And is it just me, or did Lien's stand at the dock remind anyone else of certain Greek or Roman epic battles against superior forces? (In Roman legend, Horatius at the bridge; in Greek legend, the Battle of Thermopylae) Except of course, in those tales the protagonist didn't have a Thor's Lightning spell backing them up... :smallwink:

Good job, Rich, and all the best wishes for your health and well-being. That's what's important.

eilandesq

2007-07-07, 07:18 AM

Lien's got more than a little Eowyn in her--stick figureness aside, I could see her staring down some vile undead and calling out some familiar words:

'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'

If Hinjo makes it through this more or less intact, he's going to have to start thinking about heirs, and he could do worse than Lien as a means towards that end (along with the other obvious benefits of such a relationship). Of course, I'm a frustrated Aragorn/Eowyn shipper, so I'm admittedly prejudiced in that area. . .

factotum

2007-07-07, 07:25 AM

Hmmm. The Order getting split seems more and more likely...

As for Redcloak wanting the boat, he said he's going to sink it. Wouldn't be much use to him at the bottom of the ocean, but then, it wouldn't be a lot of use anyway considering they'll never fit 20,000 hobgoblins on board!

shylocxs

2007-07-07, 07:25 AM

I don't know why, but knowing that Xykon is replaying Roys death again and again just makes me happier. Why? Because he's got so much negative Karma building up, it's gonna catch up to him sooner or later. And then....

Mmmmmm.... lovely negative karma.

Replaying Roy's death makes us evil ones so happy!

And, with no hair on his head, replaying that splat just keeps getting better and better!

Twilight Jack

2007-07-07, 07:28 AM

And is it just me, or did Lien's stand at the dock remind anyone else of certain Greek or Roman epic battles against superior forces? (In Roman legend, Horatius at the bridge; in Greek legend, the Battle of Thermopylae) Except of course, in those tales the protagonist didn't have a Thor's Lightning spell backing them up... :smallwink:

Good job, Rich, and all the best wishes for your health and well-being. That's what's important.

Actually, I was most reminded of the battle of Changban in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, in which Zhang Fei singlehandedly held off an entire army by making a (successful Intimidate check) warcry and challenge while standing upon a bridge, thus allowing the nation whose retreat he defended to gain the distance needed to make good their escape. Essentially, the nature of his challenge was that the entire army could easily kill him, but he was guaranteed to kill at least 100-200 men before falling. Who's first?

Great comic all told; it moved the plot along, hit multiple punchlines without belaboring them, and created new tension in the sense of a race against time. I approve heartily.

Skyshot

2007-07-07, 07:38 AM

Irbis

2007-07-07, 07:38 AM

otakuryoga

2007-07-07, 07:46 AM

TEEVO!

yay for the return of everyones favorite mystical tech device

Robert Paulson

2007-07-07, 07:59 AM

Best strip in a while!

Bendal

2007-07-07, 08:13 AM

Rich, thanks for the new comic, and hope your health improves with the new schedule.

As for a Durkon vs Redcloak battle, just how many spells has Durkon cast by now? This is his first Thor's Lightning we've seen him cast, but he's used many of his cure spells so presumably he burned other slots to do so. We know Redcloak is out of harm spells himself, and a lot of other damage spells too, but he'll be accompanied by a lot of cannon fodder.

Meanwhile V, Haley and Belkar are still unaccounted for...

Idless

2007-07-07, 08:16 AM

The date is 07-07-07 - and its my birthday

And I got a greeting from Giantitp :D

And a nice comic strip as a present... my only present today!

...Idless

Surfing HalfOrc

2007-07-07, 08:20 AM

Just realized something.
If Xykon's scrying on the area around Roy's body...and Haley and Belkar are headed there...might he skip ahead to edit in some after-effects and happen to catch a pair of PCs red-handed?

Xykon isn't scrying, he's watching reruns. He's gonna miss the entire thing when Haley snatches the body, and makes good her escape.

In fact, Xykon may then tell Tsukiko to go fetch Roy's body to make into a new Death Knight or something, and Tsukiko will head out, only to discover the body gone!

Mojique

2007-07-07, 08:25 AM

Where is Elan's new lute?

factotum

2007-07-07, 08:29 AM

Where is Elan's new lute?

In his pockets. :smallsmile:

Seriously, you don't expect the Giant to draw every single little item the characters are carrying around, do you? Elan's rapier is never visible when he isn't actually wielding it, the Eye of Fear and Flame disappeared several times while Belkar was carrying it, Haley's *eight* Bags of Holding never appear on her person...

Willahad

2007-07-07, 08:47 AM

Damn. When I say the lightningbolt, I was thinking "Wooo! V's back!" Ah, well, the imminent attack is cool too.

Yeah that's what I thought to when I saw it

Omega

2007-07-07, 08:56 AM

Well I bet Lien, will think next time before using a Fish Spear to gore her enemies.

Bluefin

2007-07-07, 09:07 AM

What's going on? All the NPCs are living!
After all those cool NPCs before them died too :smallfrown:

And yay for Teevo.

The_Weirdo

2007-07-07, 09:14 AM

Hey, did anyone else notice that the cute blue-haired Paladin has some nice cleavage? :D

Post

2007-07-07, 09:32 AM

What the hell is it, Giant? Recurring Lung cancer? Leukemia? Tuberculosis? Alzheimers? Landau Kleffner Syndrome? Wilson’s disease? Alien hand? pseudopseudohypoparathyroidism?

Mojique

2007-07-07, 09:33 AM

In his pockets. :smallsmile:
Seriously, you don't expect the Giant to draw every single little item the characters are carrying around, do you?
Normally not. But we talk about Elan. He lost his former lute, his heart, his intellect...

Nerd-o-rama

2007-07-07, 09:50 AM

Sigh. I'd make some joke about an Amulet of Health for the Giant, but at this point, it seems played. All I can ask is that he takes care of himself rather than hurting in the name of his art/products, which he clearly is doing. Also, that I'm glad I decided to skip GenCon in favor of DragonCon already.

As for the strip...Lien has made my new favorite badass speech. And like most named women in this strip, is damn hot, based on my overactive imagination and tendency to be attracted to personalities.

Fabio_MP

2007-07-07, 09:57 AM

great comic and we are heading to a showdown.... half Oots vs half Team Evil.... nice :)

thank you Giant, take care!

Kavotruo

2007-07-07, 10:00 AM

[QUOTE=Post;2843683]What the hell is it, Giant? ...[QUOTE]

Hey...please stop.

kukn

2007-07-07, 10:02 AM

I had almost forgotten about Lien, good to see her there. I like the subtle humour in Durkon's "Cure Something Wounds" question. Apart from all the other great lines - as ever :smallsmile:

Fabio_MP

2007-07-07, 10:02 AM

The OotS has committed a blunder in that they split up. I hope it works out where Durkon, Elan, and company can hold off till the others rendezvous. A while ago I thought this might be the final arc, but the story appears to be going on strong. :)

why? now the hobb... halfling can get the ming destroyed and the bard can take the ship to save the city.... ;-)

Elderac

2007-07-07, 10:14 AM

Great strip full of humor and drama.

I'm glad that Lien survived. I suspect if Durokan hadn't zapped the hobgoblins, she would have whipped out her daisho and commenced further fillet action on her next turn. I like that she wasn't upset that she took some damage from the lightning bolt. Perhaps Durokan remembered when Miko leapt from the middle of the Ogres when they were on their way to Azure City.

For a brief second, I, too, thought V had returned, but remembered that V use the last spell to go invisible.

Some posters have postulated that the party will be getting split here. I am tending to agree with them, given that Hinjo and his group headed right for the docks, while Haley and Belkar had to go out of the city. It might be a race between them and Redcloak to get the dock.

While splitting a party isn't a good idea when GMing a game, it is a good storytelling technique.

It does, however, complicate the issue with what to do with Roy, since Durokan is with Hinjo's group. Because of Belkar's objections, Haley can't put him into a bag of holding, nor does she have the ability to cast Gentle Repose to keep his condition from getting worse.

Then there is the question as to which group V would end up with. If V makes it to the ship, then each group has 3 members of the OotS, however that leaves all the spellcasters on the ship. (Although he is a ranger, I do not count Belkar as a spellcaster since he hasn't done anything of the like since using the two scrolls in the dungeon.)

There is also the issue that V may not be aware of the group heading to the ship. So, my money is on him being with Haley and Belkar.

Finally, I wish you well, Rich. As much as I love OotS, it is not more important than your health.

Blood

2007-07-07, 10:21 AM

Did anyone else notice those orange balls that look like hobgoblin heads over the edge of the ship in Panel 1?

Porthos

2007-07-07, 10:29 AM

You know, I do believe I can see a hint of Unresolved Sexual Tension emanating from Lien. Hinjo better buy a clue, otherwise the poor lass might be doomed to speak in cryptograms. :smalltongue:

As for other things: Captain Axe... *snerk*. The return of Teeeeevoooo!!! Hurray! Seeing Durkon saving the day is always good.

And poor, poor Daigo. He's finding just how hard it is to be around Elan when Elan is in Full Bardic Mode. When you think about it, Roy should be eligible for sainthood considering how much of that he had to put up with before he died. :smallbiggrin:

JEntropy

2007-07-07, 10:30 AM

Giant, thank you for putting your health first. The world is funny about these sort of things, so inevitably by reducing the rank of OotS on your priorities, you will end up being more consistent with it. Specifically, changing the schedule was a great decision, as I can imagine the pressure that would leave on you. Be well.

Did anyone notice how quickly the Captain's name comes up? Is that a throwback to #472? Surely Hinjo wants to protect his captain from a stray arrow or something.

Moreover, his facial expression in his third panel is priceless.

Nope. You have such tales in virtually all cultures, with one man against army, too, not only army-vs-army as your Thermopylae example; that was wirtually meaningless battle that only gained notoriety thanks to the personality of Leonidas and his soldiers, not to mention certain idiotic movie of late :smallconfused:

Thermopylae was not a virtually meaningless battle, though the movie doesn't do it its full justice. The sacrifice of the Spartans and Thespians allowed the rest of the Greek army to retreat to fight another day; otherwise, they would have been routed as the Persians charged after them, and Xerxes would have pushed on without opposition through Greece.

Without Thermopylae, Salamis and Plataea do not happen (at least with the same results as they did).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae (Read)

TheoCryst

2007-07-07, 10:39 AM

Aww, Teevo looks so happy in that last frame! And Lien = über hotness (as far as stick figures go).

Did anyone else notice those orange balls that look like hobgoblin heads over the edge of the ship in Panel 1?

They aren't orange, they're tan. The same color as the skin tone of the citizens of Azure City.

Max_Sinister

2007-07-07, 10:46 AM

Why didn't Captain Axe lend a hand to Lien?

Tach13

2007-07-07, 10:50 AM

I have no clue how you do it Giant, to have a great comic but still make me get sad twice about comments (doubling the size of the Saphire Guard and seeing Roy hit). Great story telling. Take care of yourself.

stickygoo

2007-07-07, 10:53 AM

Yay! for the new comic!

Yay! for a the new character! (he has a name and gimic and everything!)

And Giant, take your time. I'm all for quality over quantity. Take your time, take care of your self and please the masses when your able. It'll be worth the wait.

Elderac

2007-07-07, 10:57 AM

Did anyone else notice those orange balls that look like hobgoblin heads over the edge of the ship in Panel 1?

I concur with TheoCryst. I believe those are the civilians that Hinjo ordered Lien to take on board his ship.

BardicLasher

2007-07-07, 11:03 AM

Why didn't Captain Axe lend a hand to Lien?

Because then he wouldn't have any left!

Randalor

2007-07-07, 11:04 AM

It's good to see you're playing it safe, Giant. Random comics and few con apperances are better than no comics and a hospitalized author.

Once again, a great comic that shows that very few of the paladins are as self-centered as Miko *Why is it that the random side cahracters get better backgrounds than some of the PCs?*

Fighteer

2007-07-07, 11:28 AM

Okay, the comic was great as always, but Xykon's last line made me laugh out loud. It's too bad my wife will never appreciate why.

Rich, I hate to see someone so full of wonderful ideas fall victim to serious illness. I truly do hope you recover and are able to continue, not merely for yourself, but for the joy you bring to everyone who reads your work.

Imrahil

2007-07-07, 11:28 AM

Glad to see you're (kind of) OK, Rich. I for one will enjoy going back to the randomness; there's nothing better than getting up in the morning after a good night's sleep and being greeted by a shiny new comic.

I'd love to stay and analyze the current strip right now in all its sticky goodness, but I have to go call my father (it's his birthday, and it's kind of a milestone).

Nightfall

2007-07-07, 11:35 AM

SO worth waiting for!

But none of that matters beside the fact that YOU, Mr. Burlew, need to take care of yourself FIRST (I have complete faith in your S.O. to pull you through). Get yourself well (or as well as you can). The comic can wait, and so can we.:smallsmile:

Chronos

2007-07-07, 11:37 AM

What the hell is it, Giant? Recurring Lung cancer? Leukemia? Tuberculosis? Alzheimers? Landau Kleffner Syndrome? Wilson’s disease? Alien hand? pseudopseudohypoparathyroidism?Rich, just tell everyone it's Mummy Rot. That way, you won't have to bare your personal life to us, but it's nerdy enough that it'll get everyone to shut up about it and leave you in peace.

My reaction to Redcloak's plan came in three stages:
1: Oh, no, the party's screwed. Redcloak's too powerful for them.
2: But wait, he's used up most of his spells. A spell-less cleric shouldn't be too much of a problem.
3: Except the folks waiting for him on the ship have also used up most or all of their daily-use abilities, and the only members of the Order whose abilities are unlimited-use are three miles away.

Overall, I think that a depleted cleric, a depleted bard, and two depleted paladins should probably be able to handle a higher-level depleted cleric, but it'll be close. Then again, it just now occurs to me that we haven't seen Redcloak use any of his domain spells this battle, but Durkon has now used his best domain spell. I suppose the heros can withdraw from the battle at will, but that'll mean the semi-permanent splitting of the party.

Fighteer

2007-07-07, 11:47 AM

My reaction to Redcloak's plan came in three stages:
1: Oh, no, the party's screwed. Redcloak's too powerful for them.
2: But wait, he's used up most of his spells. A spell-less cleric shouldn't be too much of a problem.
3: Except the folks waiting for him on the ship have also used up most or all of their daily-use abilities, and the only members of the Order whose abilities are unlimited-use are three miles away.

Overall, I think that a depleted cleric, a depleted bard, and two depleted paladins should probably be able to handle a higher-level depleted cleric, but it'll be close. Then again, it just now occurs to me that we haven't seen Redcloak use any of his domain spells this battle, but Durkon has now used his best domain spell. I suppose the heros can withdraw from the battle at will, but that'll mean the semi-permanent splitting of the party.
Except that Redcloak has something on the order of twenty thousand hobgoblins to throw at that one ship, if needed.

Surfing HalfOrc

2007-07-07, 11:58 AM

Calmness

2007-07-07, 12:02 PM

Ugh the hobos are so useless

mockingbyrd7

2007-07-07, 12:39 PM

This one's made me like Lien even more... she's quite pretty, too. Would make a nice lass for Hinjo. :smallsmile:

Same here... is it just me, or she one of the more shapely stick figures we've seen? :smallwink:

*cough*

I just said a stick figure was hot. And last night I was talking to a penguin with a white cape and wizard's staff. (kpenguin)

...

What the hell is going on here??

DreadArchon

2007-07-07, 12:44 PM

Ugh the hobos are so useless
Uh, they're CR 1/2...

Surfing HalfOrc

2007-07-07, 12:49 PM

Same here... is it just me, or she one of the more shapely stick figures we've seen? :smallwink:

*cough*

I just said a stick figure was hot. And last night I was talking to a penguin with a white cape and wizard's staff. (kpenguin)

...

What the hell is going on here??

You are being absorbed into the OotS Overmind. Don't resist. Just accept your place as one of many cogs, churning away. Don't think about the overall function of the OotSverse.

For there is no spoon, and it is your mind that bends...

Megalomaniac2

2007-07-07, 01:17 PM

Too many great lines in this episode, I have to go with "Yes please! I ran out of my own heals six disembowelment threats ago!" for the win.

David Argall

2007-07-07, 01:22 PM

I love Redcloak's casual attitude about the whole thing. "Hey, I'm gonna go cause severe property damage out of spite." I kind of wonder why he'd do that, though. He needs a boat to get to one of the gates, doesn't he?

Our lich needs a boat, lots of them if he wants to take his army with him. Red would just as soon stay in his new city until he has really mashed the humans down, maybe convert it into a goblin town.

Chronos

2007-07-07, 01:24 PM

Except that Redcloak has something on the order of twenty thousand hobgoblins to throw at that one ship, if needed.Yeah, but the hobs were already heading for the ship, and there's a limit to how many can force their way onto the dock at once. There's nothing new there. Redcloak is another story.

Surfing HalfOrc, ducksnakes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html) get a duck head, so I don't think they're venomous.

Wonton

2007-07-07, 01:26 PM

That was awesome. :smallbiggrin:

bairen

2007-07-07, 01:43 PM

Typo?

"and ready repel the enemy."

Oops, already caught on the first page. Did a find for 'typo' but didn't see it. Huh.

AyuVince

2007-07-07, 01:44 PM

ducksnakes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html) get a duck head, so I don't think they're venomous.

It could be contact poison. I heard them ducks can spit at targets up to 30 feet away. Nasty little critters.

As for the comic: great character mix! Elan's drama rhetoric, Kazumi and Daigo, Lien's standoff, more junk jokes, Captain Axe, another Teevo joke and a short Roy cameo (splat!). Redcloak is mistaken if he thinks he'll scuttle that junk easily. Retreat battles are always the fiercest.

Actana

2007-07-07, 01:47 PM

I just said a stick figure was hot. And last night I was talking to a penguin with a white cape and wizard's staff.

I just have to sig that. Sorry.:smallbiggrin:

As to the comic: Great, as always.

As to Rich: Get well soon!

Vulion

2007-07-07, 02:23 PM

Woot! Lien is alive! Woot! Kazumi and Daigo are alive!

Elan's denial of the facts that were before him is hilarious.

Hinjo is, of course, looking totally badass as standing with his arms behind his back and reminding me a lot of Shinjo.

Great comic, Rich, and good luck with your health, man.

Winged One

2007-07-07, 03:07 PM

Maybe Redcloak will finally be revealed to the OOTS now...

Zhrec

2007-07-07, 03:10 PM

Rich I hope you will get better soon.

New comic is just fantastic, paladins actually can be hot chicks as Lien O_o, I changed opinion about that class in more favorable view. Teevo!!! Great divaice %). Captain Ax and Elan lack of intelligent, are great. Well also Dunkon and all others! Grate!

Emmerson Grant

2007-07-07, 05:43 PM

Great comic, Rich.
Take the time you need to heal up, no worries.

Incidentally, Redcloack is down to how many spells? Of what level?

johnnyriot999

2007-07-07, 05:59 PM

It's nice to see Elan being his old goofy self. Although that last panel was a bit of a kick in the ol' family beljurils.

Siwenna

2007-07-07, 06:04 PM

Great comic! Lien is awesome, as is Captain Axe.

sealemon

2007-07-07, 06:45 PM

As much as I enjoy this comic (And that's quite a lot. On some days it's my highlight), yer health is priority #1. Take care of yourself first.

and yeah, good to see that Lien is still alive, guess it's that name-factor again :)
it's funny to see that Lien couldn't take Hinjo's junk, because a guy with an axe-hand didn't want her too (maybe that's just funny for me ;) )

If a guy with an axe hand says he wants to remove MY junk, I wouldn't find it very funny...ouch!

sealemon

2007-07-07, 06:54 PM

Also, I'm very glad to see Durkon, Elan and the former Redshirts show up in the nick of time like they did; always good ot know you have friends you can Lien on.

Baru

2007-07-07, 07:47 PM

Expect something unexpected.

Hann

2007-07-07, 07:57 PM

Rich was bitten by a venomous duck. (Let's see who gets the reference)

The dreaded Ducksnake!
5 bucks says Haley and Belkar will encounter Roy's body seemingly dragging itself away, then realize it's V.

Baru

2007-07-07, 07:58 PM

Tsukiko will probably find Roy first.

Gefangnis

2007-07-07, 10:50 PM

Wow, I learned a lot of about Rich in that news post that he probably didn't want me to know: he's an environmentalist?! :smallbiggrin:

Great comic!

shaddy_24

2007-07-07, 10:51 PM

Great comic Giant. You once again manage to wow us with amazing story telling and great, detailed art (really hard from a stick figure web comic). Please continue to produce these high quality comics in the futur. I'll stick by your side as long as you are on the internet.
It's great to see more about Lien. It looks like she will become a continuing character and will be here to stay. I hope she and Hinjo hook up! The PCs get some love, so why shouldn't the NPCs?

H. Zee

2007-07-08, 01:18 AM

I would rather have randomly-timed comics which are as great as this one than regular-timed comics which aren't so good. Rock on, Giant.

The Vanishing Hitchhiker

2007-07-08, 02:51 AM

Donations? Ha! You can't stop me, man, I'll just buy stuff! Mwahahahaha!

Anyway...ah, Elan, Elan, Elan. Tsk. :smallbiggrin:

Come on, Haley, Belkar, and Roy!

Alfryd

2007-07-08, 07:19 AM

New comic is up.
Not bad. Call it 7.4.
And the neverending parade of fanboy fetishes continues.

Note also the News announcement regarding the schedule.
Duly noted- Pull the switch.

Redcloak is mistaken if he thinks he'll scuttle that junk easily. Retreat battles are always the fiercest.
Depends on how tanked-up on spells RC and Durkon respectively remain at this hour in the afternoon. Lesser mortals may as well sit back and pass the popcorn, they'll only hurt themselves.
Of course, I should note that scuttling an entire junkload of harmless civilians is a little more Evil in spirit than I'd previously given RC credit for.

factotum

2007-07-08, 07:30 AM

Of course, I should note that scuttling an entire junkload of harmless civilians is a little more Evil in spirit than I'd previously given RC credit for.

Redcloak hates humans. He tried to kill Tsukiko, who was on his side and clearly willing to help out--what makes you think he'll shed a tear for a boatload of human civilians?

Alfryd

2007-07-08, 07:40 AM

Yeah, but he hated hobgoblins too, and was often markedly reluctant to inflict needless casualties on their ranks.
Tsukiko he suspected (reasonably enough,) of being a double agent. And even then, didn't off her directly, though it's possible he was simply trying to avoid trouble with Xykon. I dunno. We'll have to see.

dish

2007-07-08, 08:22 AM

Yay, tension ramping up again...
...will the party be split, or manage to reunite?
...will they find Roy's body?
...will there be a big showdown between RC and Durkon?
...where is V?
...will we see the triumphant return of the Teevo fanclub?

So many questions remain to be resolved before the end of this story-arc. And the 'new' randomized schedule just increases the excitement. Every day will bring the potential for a new installment of OOTS. Brill.

rxmd

2007-07-08, 08:29 AM

And the neverending parade of fanboy fetishes continues.
Says the stalwart defender of Miko ("Frequently Rebutted Criticisms" anyone?) ;)

MReav

2007-07-08, 09:50 AM

Ah, it's nice to see Xykon and TeeVo bonding.

factotum

2007-07-08, 10:39 AM

Yeah, but he hated hobgoblins too, and was often markedly reluctant to inflict needless casualties on their ranks.

Only AFTER he had his epiphany outside the walls of Azure City--he was perfectly willing to see thousands of them killed in a pointless attack before that point.

I think his "suspicions" of Tsukiko being a double agent were purely an excuse to treat her the way he did--he just wanted to get rid of her.

Fitzwalrus

2007-07-08, 12:22 PM

Fine strip, though I wonder if we'll see Elan dealing with the fact that there now are "ghosts" at his side defending the ship?:smallamused:

Very sorry to hear that Giant's health is kicking up. :smallfrown:
You take care of yourself, Rich: that is far more important than beating yourself up trying to meet a fixed schedule. You bring a great deal of joy and laughter into the lives of a lot of people with the work you do here: we can wait. Take care.:smallsmile:

Alfryd

2007-07-08, 12:33 PM

Says the stalwart defender of Miko ("Frequently Rebutted Criticisms" anyone?) ;)
Rebuffed.
Besides, that's not a fetish, that's an obsession. There's an important distinction.

...he was perfectly willing to see thousands of them killed in a pointless attack before that point.
Not entirely pointless- it apparently served as a diversionary tactic while the main army took the city through another breach. The main change in his plans was to involve himself personally in the assault, increasing the odds of a swift victory but also increasing the risk to himself.

David Argall

2007-07-08, 01:06 PM

Yeah, but he hated hobgoblins too, and was often markedly reluctant to inflict needless casualties on their ranks.

That is his current attitude. Up until he almost got hit by a rock, he was happy, even eager, to see them die in large numbers.
And his change in attitude is limited rather strictly to hobgoblins. If you presented some other type of goblinoid, or maybe a half-goblin, it might have a prayer, but humans are clearly beyond his pale. Sinking a boatload of innocent humans? Fine, except there are no such thing as innocent humans. They are automatically guilty of anti-goblin crimes.

Alfryd

2007-07-08, 02:00 PM

That is his current attitude. Up until he almost got hit by a rock, he was happy, even eager, to see them die in large numbers.
He ...almost ...decided to scout out the mountain path personally rather than send out dispensable minions, and warned Xykon there would be consequences to forcing him sail a ship made of hobgoblin corpses.

...here are no such thing as innocent humans. They are automatically guilty of anti-goblin crimes.
I see no evidence this is actually his viewpoint. He might just be indifferent to human life and wants the ship to sink to prevent remnants of the army escaping.

DrivinAllNight

2007-07-08, 03:06 PM

I was hoping to see Elan go swimming, woulda been funny to me.
And why couldn't Lien pick up the dropped sword of the Hobgoblin she piked?
And it was funny seeing xykon be his usual idiotic self, not caring one bit about anything but his own personal gains that are right in front of his non-existent nose. But that is Xykon.
And for Mr. B., I'm not worried about what ya got, just hope everyone prays to all the gods except those of the east (since the snarl killed those) that you get better and can kick whatever it is back into some sort of submission for a long time to come.
Go RC & Durkon matchup :)

Rufio

2007-07-08, 04:04 PM

Hehe, great one Giant. I wonder if no-name will get one too, since she seems to not mind :durkon: around...

Quikngruvn

2007-07-08, 04:06 PM

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: Lien is officially badass.

And let me add to the chorus: definitely keep your health as your top priority, Giant.

I see no evidence this is actually his viewpoint. He might just be indifferent to human life and wants the ship to sink to prevent remnants of the army escaping.

His attitude toward humans is hardly indifferent. To wit:
"I hate humans of all breeds equally. That makes me a speciesist." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html)
"15d6 Points of Whirling Death for Humans." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0457.html)

That's hatred, not indifference.

warmachine

2007-07-08, 04:34 PM

Shame on a warrior that doesn't have a backup weapon, even if it's just a dagger. That includes you, Roy.

David Argall

2007-07-08, 05:58 PM

He ...almost ...decided to scout out the mountain path personally rather than send out dispensable minions,
Easily disposed of. He just had not thought of using minions for that task. Once he hears of the idea, even when presented as an inferior alternative, he goes for it.

and warned Xykon there would be consequences to forcing him sail a ship made of hobgoblin corpses.
There is no evidence that it was the loss of hobgoblin lives that concerned him here, as opposed, say, to the difficulties of making and using such a weird craft.

I see no evidence this is actually his viewpoint. He might just be indifferent to human life and wants the ship to sink to prevent remnants of the army escaping.
There have already been some posts on this, but we can add
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html which says he has been hating humans for most of his life. By this point, we need evidence that he would not be eager to kill humans.

JoseB

2007-07-08, 06:24 PM

...here are no such thing as innocent humans. They are automatically guilty of anti-goblin crimes.
I see no evidence this is actually his viewpoint. He might just be indifferent to human life and wants the ship to sink to prevent remnants of the army escaping.

Apart from the already-mentioned examples in the online webcomic (#422, #451, #457), SoD shows clearly that Redcloak hates humans, and the reasons for that.

Alfryd

2007-07-08, 06:42 PM

That's hatred, not indifference.

By this point, we need evidence that he would not be eager to kill humans.
How about the fact he didn't kill Tsukiko offhand? (Made it easy for her to die, sure, but if he were so eager, why not simply zap her there and then?)

Allow me to rephrase myself. He may be indifferent to or feel ambivalent about the prospect of killing humans, despite the fact he hates them, in much the same way he had established qualms about killing off Hobgoblins, despite also hating them.

Easily disposed of. He just had not thought of using minions for that task.
Not so. His first thought was 'it's too dangerous for me to send anyone else for the task', so by implication he was certainly aware of the availability of minions from the get-go. Then the MitD reminded him that he hates Hobs.

There is no evidence that it was the loss of hobgoblin lives that concerned him here, as opposed, say, to the difficulties of making and using such a weird craft.
I think you are being excessively uncharitable here. If that were RC's objection, he would have said so. Moral concerns over needless hobgoblin slaughter seems the most reasonable interpretation.

SoD shows clearly that Redcloak hates humans, and the reasons for that.
This does not equate to RC literally believing that all humans are equally guilty of crimes against goblinkind deserving death.

hrak

2007-07-08, 08:46 PM

Captain axe....thats so sweet!

StupidFatHobbit

2007-07-08, 09:18 PM

Lien coulda been a contender. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047296/)

And I loved Captain Axe.

EvilJames

2007-07-09, 02:16 AM

heh for a minute ther it looked like Lien switched systems to ICE with her double hit that took her spear from her hands.

Ps for those who don't know what I mean. ICE is a system with some amusing crit charts, one of which is you strike your opponent so well that it kills them instantly but your weapon is stuck in there chest and can't be pulled free for a few rounds or in this case pulled from your hands.

David Argall

2007-07-09, 02:38 AM

How about the fact he didn't kill Tsukiko offhand? (Made it easy for her to die, sure, but if he were so eager, why not simply zap her there and then?)
He clearly thought that a good idea, but he says "sir" to the lich, who hired her. That gives her a certain immunity.

Allow me to rephrase myself. He may be indifferent to or feel ambivalent about the prospect of killing humans, despite the fact he hates them, in much the same way he had established qualms about killing off Hobgoblins, despite also hating them.
But neither of these feelings are documented. He shows no hesitation about killing humans when he can and he has merely switched from casually killing hobgoblins for little or no reason to attempting to support and protect them. He has renounced his former hatred as petty.

Not so. His first thought was 'it's too dangerous for me to send anyone else for the task', so by implication he was certainly aware of the availability of minions from the get-go. Then the MitD reminded him that he hates Hobs.
Same thing really. He realizes that he has a chance to kill some hobs, and takes it.

I think you are being excessively uncharitable here. If that were RC's objection, he would have said so. Moral concerns over needless hobgoblin slaughter seems the most reasonable interpretation.
Yet where do we see him showing such moral concerns? Both before and after, he casually kills them. Objections to having to do something stupid are common.

This does not equate to RC literally believing that all humans are equally guilty of crimes against goblinkind deserving death.
Equally? surely not. Sufficiently? Surely so.

Alfryd

2007-07-09, 03:34 AM

...he says "sir" to the lich, who hired her. That gives her a certain immunity.
If he was that afraid of ticking off Xykon, why endanger her in the first place? Exactly how many human non-combatants has RC personally killed off during the series? Answer: 0.

...he has merely switched from casually killing hobgoblins for little or no reason to attempting to support and protect them...
He never killed them for no reason. Simply for reasons that involved them taking the punishment rather than himself.

...He realizes that he has a chance to kill some hobs, and takes it.
He always knew he had the chance to kill Hobs- hell, he's supreme leader, he could line them up in batches by the dozen and sauté them with flamestrike if he so desired, and they wouldn't bat an eyelid- but he *almost* decides to risk his own life rather than theirs.

Yet where do we see him showing such moral concerns?
Right there.

Objections to having to do something stupid are common.
Then he would say 'that's stupid.'

Equally? surely not. Sufficiently? Surely so.
There is no evidence for this. Redcloak may hate human beings with a vengeance and still have a nagging awareness that they aren't, on an individual level, specifically guilty of anything. Whether that would make him even nominally reluctant to slaughter them without cause is an unanswered question.

Note also the News announcement regarding the schedule.
Hmm. Actually, that explains a good deal. Best of luck, and all.

Drekhan

2007-07-09, 07:14 AM

JoseB

2007-07-09, 08:07 AM

Confess, Alfryd! Now that Miko has been terminally bisected, you have found yourself adrift and without purpose in life, unable to do what the gods intended you to do: defend the characters that others hate! Therefore, you have begun to apply your dialectic prowesses in the defence of Redcloak, trying to justify his actions, no matter how unjustifiable, just as you did with Miko. Is that not? Confess, Alfryd! Confess and the Inquisition may be merciful with you! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :biggrin:

Recursive

2007-07-09, 08:45 AM

Of course, I should note that scuttling an entire junkload of harmless civilians is a little more Evil in spirit than I'd previously given RC credit for.
Well, it should be noted that Redcloak doesn't yet know that the boat is full of civilians. Whether or not he will care, of course, remains an open question.

Alfryd

2007-07-09, 09:00 AM

Confess, Alfryd! Now that Miko has been terminally bisected, you have found yourself adrift and without purpose in life...
No, no. At present, I'm still in denial.

...unable to do what the gods intended you to do: defend the characters that others hate! Therefore, you have begun to apply your dialectic prowesses in the defence of Redcloak, trying to justify his actions, no matter how unjustifiable, just as you did with Miko. Is that not? Confess, Alfryd! Confess and the Inquisition may be merciful with you!
Quick- look over there!
*runs away*

*runs back*
Of course, I should point out that I'm not claiming that Redcloak's (or Miko's) actions were always justified, I merely wished to explicate their motives and perhaps ameliorate the extent of blame they might otherwise be subject to.

*runs farther away*

uvc

2007-07-09, 09:00 AM

Hi Rich,
Just wanted to tell that I'm a fan from episode 72.
This comics is great. keep up the good work.
I just registered now, since I understand you have health problems.
I hope things will improve and that you will be able to continue this very special thing you have created here. Not many manage to do what you do - living from the thing they love.
I didn't buy any of the books yet, sorry to say. I do, however, intend to do so. I'm sure the're great.

so.... feal well, and good luck.

David Argall

2007-07-09, 03:58 PM

Hmmm wonder if anything will come of Durkon and Lien. She seemed a little smitten/giddy when he saved her and quite eager to go with him for healing even though she doesn't look -that- beat up. It could just be my imagination but it almost looks like they're going to hold hands in the second panel of the second frame.
Any sensible lass should display gratitude to a man who saves her life, tho whether that become Gratitude is a more debatable point. However Lien is more friendly towards Hinjo. Here too, it is questionable that she is Friendly.

I don't know that Durkon would be interested in human women,
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0035.html

If he was that afraid of ticking off Xykon, why endanger her in the first place?
A certain immunity is not full immunity. As we see from the denouncement, Xykon is easily amused and a funny death is fine with him. Red can't really directly and flatly try to kill her, but he can be hostile to her at all times and she had better watch her back.

Exactly how many human non-combatants has RC personally killed off during the series? Answer: 0.
How many has he spared? also zero.

How many has the clearly and fully evil Belkar spared? Loads. Mostly because it was inconvenient at the time of course, but still there are a lot of people Belkar didn't stick a knife into.

- but he *almost* decides to risk his own life rather than theirs.
Then he thinks about it and wonders "Now why in the world didn't I see that I could kill some hobs instead?"
It's not even a close call. He casually increases the number he endangers rather than search for the minimum he risks. There is just no sign he put a positive value on hob lives here.

Recall this is a comic, and this scene fits the standard joke form "I am going to do something dangerous/difficult/dubious, such as climbing a tall tree, swinging on a frayed rope, etc to get into a tiny window on the third floor..." Bystander asks "why not do it the easy way, like thru the open front door?" "..well..."
But where do we have a gag if this is a close call? We get a moral choice, not a joke, if Red is actually torn between the two choice. The laugh comes from his not seeing the obviously superior choice like we can.

Quote:
Objections to having to do something stupid are common.

Then he would say 'that's stupid.'
Sometimes. Other times he makes saracastic remarks, or just groans, or... And in this case, he makes threats.

Whether that would make him even nominally reluctant to slaughter them without cause is an unanswered question.

He's a/the villain of the strip. He is guilty until proven innocent. We need reasons and evidence before we deem him unwilling to do any particular evil.

Alfryd

2007-07-10, 06:13 AM

He's a/the villain of the strip. He is guilty until proven innocent.
Actually, you seem to have your reasoning reversed. You have to prove they're guilty before you can call them a villain.
Redcloak is guilty of plenty of things that establish his general evilness, but not arbitrary slaughter of hobs for no reason.

A certain immunity is not full immunity.
"Well, what Xykon wants and what's a good idea tend to diverge significantly."
I think RC's attitude toward Big X's wishes is clear.

How many has he spared? also zero.
Exactly. No evidence either way.

He casually increases the number he endangers rather than search for the minimum he risks.
That, or he wanted to make sure there were enough to deliberately trigger a landslide. Which is certainly a tad evil, but not arbitrary as such.

Sometimes. Other times he makes saracastic remarks, or just groans, or... And in this case, he makes threats.
Oh, come on. The idea of a ship made of hob corpses is so impractical RC couldn't possibly have thought even Xykon would seriously propose it. His comment roughly translates as 'loyalties and expediency notwithstanding, I will only put up with so many dispensable minions being put through the meatgrinder.'

new1965

2007-07-10, 06:18 AM

If he was that afraid of ticking off Xykon, why endanger her in the first place?

Thats easy...
He's not sure how Xykon will react if shes actually killed so he took advantage of a situation where he has a "plausible deniability." excuse

"Sorry boss, i already had a Elemental out there killing humans, how was i supposed to know you were going to send a human to find me"

If she lived... its no harm no foul and Xykon would think it was funny anyway

Terbovus

2007-07-10, 07:21 AM

Didn't get chnance to see the comic yet, just wanted to wish the giant better health!:smallsmile:

Recursive

2007-07-10, 10:24 AM

Redcloak is guilty of plenty of things that establish his general evilness, but not arbitrary slaughter of hobs for no reason.

The acid-spitting beetle trick (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) didn't convince you on that point?

Oh, come on. The idea of a ship made of hob corpses is so impractical RC couldn't possibly have thought even Xykon would seriously propose it. His comment roughly translates as 'loyalties and expediency notwithstanding, I will only put up with so many dispensable minions being put through the meatgrinder.'
I translated it more as "some of us still have a sense of smell, skull boy."

David Argall

2007-07-10, 01:17 PM

Actually, you seem to have your reasoning reversed. You have to prove they're guilty before you can call them a villain.
Redcloak is guilty of plenty of things that establish his general evilness, but not arbitrary slaughter of hobs for no reason.

Exactly. No evidence either way.

That, or he wanted to make sure there were enough to deliberately trigger a landslide. Which is certainly a tad evil, but not arbitrary as such.

All of this is quibbling. A "defense" that he is not as absolutely evil as he could be at each and every moment. Sure Red does not engage in "arbitrary slaughter of hobs for no reason", but we do find him doing it casually for very little reason. Evil, evil, evil.

"Well, what Xykon wants and what's a good idea tend to diverge significantly."
I think RC's attitude toward Big X's wishes is clear.
Right, in the same manner as the Devil's Dictionary definition of fashion, "that which the wise ridicule and obey". Red has no respect for the lich's judgement at all, but he obeys. A standard joke of the competent underling hampered by his incompetent boss.

Oh, come on. The idea of a ship made of hob corpses is so impractical RC couldn't possibly have thought even Xykon would seriously propose it.
We are talking about Xykon here, he of whims and weird ideas, he of "Sacrificing minions: Is there any problem it can't solve?".
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html
I'd say it was a pretty good chance the lich would have proposed that idea.

His comment roughly translates as 'loyalties and expediency notwithstanding, I will only put up with so many dispensable minions being put through the meatgrinder.'
As has been noted, this is at most one of several possible meanings, and the more likely ones center around ME, making Redcloak do something he didn't like, rather than any concern about the hobs killed.

neoliyang

2007-07-10, 07:45 PM

Loved the comic, but really wish that Rich is a more, well punctual updater. I'm glad he changed the thing from "updates mondays wednesdays and fridays usually" to "updates 3 dyas without a warning" sigh

FlawedParadigm

2007-07-10, 09:53 PM

BTW, I'm starting the Teevo fan club if no one else has. Not that I intend to put it in my sig or put the effort into maintaining it or anything, being mostly a lurker, but I am in fact starting it. So nyah. TEEVO!

Alfryd

2007-07-11, 05:37 AM

...but we do find him doing it casually for very little reason. Evil, evil, evil.
I've never claimed he wasn't Evil. What I had trouble with is the notion that Redcloak would orchestrate the wholesale slaughter of defenceless civilians where there's little or no tangible benefit to doing so. There's no neccesary correlation here. Not every Evil character falls under the 'unrelenting hatred of all life, liberty and beauty' heading, y'know.

Of course, the latest strip indicates the hobgoblins soldiery are pursuing Azurites headed for the mountains. Refugees or guerilla resistance?

He's not sure how Xykon will react if shes actually killed so he took advantage of a situation where he has a "plausible deniability."
I suppose that is quite possible. Certain, however, no.

Right, in the same manner as the Devil's Dictionary definition of fashion, "that which the wise ridicule and obey".
Heh heh heh.
I prefer Oscar Wilde's take- "A form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months."

In any case, the point is that Tsukiko's treatment doesn't provide solid evidence of a tendency to slaughter humans for no reason on RC's part.

"Sacrificing minions: Is there any problem it can't solve?"
Yeah. Navigating Oceans. Even if X doesn't know any better, Redcloak certainly does, so he couldn't have been worried it would actually happen.

The acid-spitting beetle trick didn't convince you on that point?
They didn't die from that, and it appears to have been neccesary in order to convince Xykon to pay attention to tactical matters for 5 or 6 minutes.

BTW, I'm starting the Teevo fan club if no one else has.
Hail Teevo.