Girls' hair, what does it mean?

[Donnadogsoth]

I'm not a girl, but I admire feminine beauty. One component of said beauty is their hair, and usually a girl will sport longer hair than a man. The question is, why do women like long (or longer) hair, other than as a way to distinguish themselves from men, and other than as the result of some kind of hypnotic reaction to shampoo commercials? What do full, healthy, long locks mean to the women who sport them? I've read that "a woman's hair is her glory" though I misplace the quote. Any thoughts?

[Crow]

You can tell a lot about a person's youth and health from their hair, often without realizing it. Females will generally want to call attention to and accentuate the traits that males look for (even if they are unaware) in desireable mates. A man's hair can reflect well upon his health as well.

It's not surefire, but one of many small traits that we all take into account in one way or another.

Some of it may also just be ingrained. Most kids don't choose their own haircuts at an early age; and little girls whose mothers always had them wear their hair long might grow up being more comfortable keeping their hair long out of habit.

[Ifni]

I wear my hair long because when it's short it curls and springs out in all directions - kinda like the Einstein look, only messier :smallwink: (Seriously, it looks like I must have a van de Graaff generator in my pocket.) The weight of long hair pulls it down and keeps it ~straight.

I used to have short hair because I thought it would be easier to look after. Then at one point I let it grow longer due to a mixture of "I wonder how it'd feel", "winter is coming and I want a neckwarmer" and "I can't be bothered to go to the hairdresser". As a result I discovered that hey! My previously-unmanageable hair becomes totally manageable and trivial to look after once it gets a few inches past my shoulders. (I spend about thirty seconds brushing it in the morning and then clip it up, and I see a hairdresser for a trim about once every 2-3 months.)

A few years ago I donated my (by then hip-length) hair to help kids with alopecia. I didn't mind my new short haircut, but I was happy when my hair got past my shoulders again and stopped working itself into weird shapes.

So, from one woman, that's why I have long hair - laziness :smalltongue: As usual when the question is any variation on "what does [thing] mean to [members of gender]", the answers are going to vary enormously from person to person.

[Yuki Akuma]

As a man with long hair, I find it neat to arrange it into neat shapes.

I'm sure that has at least something to do with it.

[Aedilred]

I think it's almost entirely a cultural thing. Looking around the world today, there are cultures where men are expected to wear their hair long, one way or another, and where women are expected to cover or otherwise conceal theirs.

In early Medieval France, long hair on men was considered a sign of status and royalty. When a king was deposed the first thing his overthrowers would do was cut his hair so he could no longer claim the office (outright killing them seems to have been relatively rare). Long hair on men was also very common during the late middle ages and became nearly universal at least among the bourgeoisie and aristocracy during the Renaissance. By the mid-17th century men's hairstyles had become so elaborate that the done thing was to shave one's head and wear a periwig; that remained in fashion until the mid-18th century; while they began to retreat after that point, wigs representing longer hair than we would now consider usual remained in use until probably the 1830s in some circles. And even since then it's come and gone in fashion. Check out an informal photo from the 1970s and you'll see a lot of shoulder-length hair. Heck, in my wilder and more rebellious youth I had extravagantly long hair, and one of the main reasons I no longer do is a punishingly receding hairline.

I suspect that the tendency for short hair on men in the west originated in antiquity, especially in the Greco-Roman classical tradition (Semitic cultures seem to have favoured long and more styled hair more). For warriors, long hair can be a liability, as it gives your opponent something to grab at, and can get caught up in armour and clasps and the like, not to mention the difficulties of keeping it in good condition while on campaign. You could tie it out of the way, but that might betoken fear of your enemy. Better to cut your hair and make that your image, I guess. In particular, the Romans were very no-nonsense with their masculine appearances, and famously fastidious about body hair. Long hair would have been seen as effeminate and "un-Roman". The Romans cast a long cultural shadow and periodically groups or cultures will invoke a kind of Romanesque aesthetic austerity to crib from their implicit authority, moral standing and formality.

There is also a straightforward practical consideration that I alluded to earlier. Men lose their hair much more than women tend to, and it's hard to maintain a luxuriant long hairstyle if you're thinning or if your hairline is receding. The skullet is a look, but not a particularly good one, even on Shakespeare. Cutting your hair short can be a way to cover that, especially if the contemporary culture is very wig-negative.

So as the above suggests I think the question might be better approached from the other perspective: not why do women wear their hair long, but why do men cut theirs? After all, in the state of nature both men and women would presumably have long hair. I imagine that throughout history there has been much less pressure on women to cut theirs short, because patriarchal tendencies mean they have generally been less engaged in the practical and physical labour that makes long hair problematic to maintain (particularly combat) and treated as more ornamental. Long, good-quality and styled hair is an important aesthetic factor, for the reasons Crow mentioned, and in male-dominated societies men will want their women drawing attention to those as much as possible, so there hasn't really been a reason for it to fall out of style. Over time, then, long hair on women has come to be considered normative, while - with some exceptions, as discussed above - on men, it's come and gone to a much greater extent. Things are changing a little as the gender gap narrows, and short hair on women is becoming less unconventional (while still being relatively unconventional) but these tendencies, ingrained over hundreds of years, tend to die fairly hard.

[Dire Moose]

I'll point out here that I'm actually attracted to short hair on girls, which seems to be contrary to most men. Short hair tends to give off a "she's unique, quirky, and fun" vibe to me.

Actually, to be perfectly honest, female masculinity is a major attraction for me, and I'm not sure why exactly. Which is kind of ironic and unfortunate for me as a lot of short-haired masculine girls are, as one would guess, not interested in men.

[Recherché]

It's pretty darn individual. For some women long hair may be because she doesn't feel like cutting it as often. for another it might be because you can do more varied hairstyles with long hair while with short hair you're pretty much stuck with the one it was cut to. Sometimes it's probably because society expects women to have long hair and look feminine and dealing with people thinking you look too masculine is a pain. Or just because she thinks she looks better with long hair.

In my particular case it's a combination of the fact that my hair is curly enough that it will turn into an afro if it's own weight isn't pulling it down and the fact that I do victorian costuming and it's easier to fake victorian hairstyles with longer hair than shorter hair. For my roommate it's because she thinks short hair makes her face look too round and also because she doesn't want to spend the money and energy on frequent haircuts.


Women are not one unified group any more than men are. We have personal reasons for making our choices.

Also that quote is from Corinthians in the bible which I probably shouldn't talk more about the context of for fear of forum rules.

[FinnLassie]

Archaic societal norms and pressure, woo!

... In general, I just have it long because I look horrible with a shorter mane. And who's talking about a well kept bunch of hair, mine's dry and damaged as hell. :smalltongue:

[Dodom]

To me, short hair was first a rebellion, and later a more regular choice because actually, I look and feel great with short fuzzy hair.

I was forced to keep my hair long all childhood because my mother was bald and it was my job to have the hair. But since she was bald, she never bought shampoo or brushes, so my hair was a mess I washed with solid soap and combed with my fingers, and I never had a trim or learned to style it. I absolutely hated my hair, it felt dirty, whipped me in the face when it was windy, kept falling in front of my eyes, and provided bullies with an excuse adults actually bought. ("If the others call her gross enough she'll magically be entirely autonomous at age 8 and not be dependent on her parents for hygiene and grooming products!" yeah there are adults, teachers, who think like that.)
As a teen I grew disgusted enough to risk the punishment and shaved it all. Kept it shaved for a while, until I settled to a 1 to 2 inches length which seems to suit me best.

[Eldariel]

From what I gather, pretty much the same as a boy's hair. I used to keep mine long for practical reasons as well as individuality (I used to be obsessed with being different). However, when I cut it for the military, the barber asked me how I felt about losing my hair and I couldn't say anything but that it doesn't really matter. I let it grow later (I have a naturally curly hair so keeping it long straightens it out a bit with its own weight) but nowadays that I actually bother to take some care of my looks I've come to realise that I really don't wear long hair that well and thus I keep it about neck-length or a bit shorter. I try to work with the curls.

[cobaltstarfire]

I keep my hair long because it's easier to deal with and take care of long.

My hair is very straight, very thick, very heavy, and very slippery. You cannot style it, or rather you can try but it will fall out of that style within hours. And I don't like to put stuff in my hair anyway, it feels gross, and it hurts in most cases to style it. Things like pins or barrettes will slip out at the first opportunity. Hair bands give me a headache, so screw those. My hair also grows rather quickly, I'd probably have to get a gajillion haircuts a year if I wanted to keep it short, and I'm not convinced that I'll like how I look with short hair anyway.

My mom made me cut it to above my shoulders one year in highschool, and I hated it. It was too short to keep in a ponytail, so it was constantly slipping into my face if I wanted to use a water fountain or draw, or write, or a windy day. Also no one recognized me without my hair, so apparently my hair is one of my defining characteristics.

So I keep it long, when it's long enough it doesn't easily get into my face, if it's hot and windy I can put it in a ponytail, if I need to exercise more control over it I can put it in a braid, and then trap that braid under my clothes (such as when dealing with heavy machinery). If I want to take a shower but not wash my hair it's easy to put it in a rough bun and trap it under a large bandana.


I don't really like getting haircuts, because it costs an arm and a leg to get one (wouldn't if I was a man but that's a whole other issue :smallannoyed:). Not only does it cost a lot, but a lot of hair dressers act as if it physically pains them to cut my hair. Look man, if you cut four inches off my hair, it's still going to be long, and it's still going to be thick just slightly less so, and I won't have split ends! I just want to be able to brush my hair without aggravating my tendonitis ok?


I'm also pretty sure that mens hair is about the same. The guys hair is curly, he used to keep it long, but cut it to look more "professional" It's way more curly now since the curls aren't being pulled out by the weight. And his hair behaves a lot like my moms, in that humidity will make the curls/wave frizz out into a crazy poof. He now keeps it short even though he doesn't have to anymore, mainly because once it gets a bit longer it constantly gets in his face and tickels his nose. He'd rather keep cutting it short, than endure that annoying face tickling stage to grow it back out long, and that's literally the only reason his hair isn't long again. Similar to how he has a well maintained beard because going clean shaven is inconvenient, itchy, and annoying given how quickly the hair grows back out.

[Peelee]

I don't know any women who can't grow their hair long. I do know several men (myself among them) that just plain can't.

Probably contributes something to the meaning.

[CuteGhost]

Well my hair is just below shoulder length, it's is really really thin. So if I wear a hoodie I better hope I brought a brush. I wish my hair wouldn't get messed up so easily. Personally I get really self conscious about my hair, I really don't know why. I am not the type of person who will spend hours in the bathroom trying to look perfect.

[Remmirath]

I don't think it really means anything in general; it's a personal preference thing. Me, I left my hair very long for much of my life because I couldn't be bothered to do anything about it, but then I got annoyed with it and cut it and discovered that it's less annoying shorter (although now I have to trim it now and again). I've never understood why people's reaction was largely bafflement as to why I would cut it.

[Knaight]

It's cultural; if you look at a broad section of history you see a wide variety of hair styles for both men and women*. There's some restriction in who can get what (balding, beardlessness, and hair curliness all come to mind), and that affects cultural standards, but that doesn't come up as that big a deal with sheer length.

*Some of which look really stupid to modern eyes. The viking side-mullet comes to mind, as does the tonsure.

[AliceLost]

I have to say I'm a little disappointed (although not surprised) at the broad strokes being applied here. People are right when they say that it's a mix of cultural and personal reasons. However:

Females will generally want to call attention to and accentuate the traits that males look for (even if they are unaware) in desireable mates. A man's hair can reflect well upon his health as well.
I frankly take offense at this "explanation"; we have plenty of motivations for how we cultivate our appearances other than calling for male attention, and Western society as a whole is obsessed with the notion that if a woman does anything with her appearance it is for male pleasure and viewing (but, of course, if a man does the exact same thing, it can be for his own enjoyment, or a broad demonstration of his "health", or various other reasons).

Then, on the other hand, if a woman does anything not conforming to the established beauty-for-male-gaze standard, she gets this:

Which is kind of ironic and unfortunate for me as a lot of short-haired masculine girls are, as one would guess, not interested in men.
Hair is hair. Some women wear wear their hair long because they want to look attractive to men, and some women wear their hair short because they want to look attractive to women. Some do the opposite. Some wear their hair the way they do because they grew up with it that way and are comfortable with it. Some wear it because they're changing their style to something new, some wear it that way because it's easiest to care for. Some wear it because they think it's pretty and they don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Some don't think about at all.

I think the OP's question of why women choose to wear long hair is a fine question to ask, and interesting to hear people's specific answers, but I really hate the overbearing cultural associations of long/short hair, and hearing other people tell me why I wear my hair the way I do.

As it happens, I grew up with long hair and am accustomed to it, and I like the way it feels. It's also quite unruly when it's short, so it's easier to take care of this way. I tried cutting it short when I was in university, and I was constantly being harassed for being a lesbian for having short hair, which was one of the factors that prompted me to grow it out again. Quite frankly, I don't feel comfortable having short hair. I think it looks cute and I'd like to experiment with it more, but I don't feel comfortable with the attention it gets me. I totally support other women who rock short cuts, and I strongly recommend other people reconsider basing their assumptions of someone's sexuality on their hair length.

Postscript: I am a lesbian, so I don't wear long hair for male attention. But I've had noticeably more people assume my sexuality from my hair length than from my actual behaviour. (With short hair, some people would assume I was a lesbian and harass me for it, without anything else to go by. With long hair, people sometimes don't understand that I'm gay when I'm on a date with my girlfriend.)

[Cespenar]

The only thing I know is that my short hair dries up very quickly after a shower. Which is practical. Which is good.

[Crow]

I frankly take offense at this "explanation"; we have plenty of motivations for how we cultivate our appearances other than calling for male attention, and Western society as a whole is obsessed with the notion that if a woman does anything with her appearance it is for male pleasure and viewing (but, of course, if a man does the exact same thing, it can be for his own enjoyment, or a broad demonstration of his "health", or various other reasons).

You can be offended all you want. That's on you.

If you think there aren't cultural and selection factors which contribute to how people (of both sexes) have worn their hair in the past and (less so) in the present, that is fine by me; But long hair has been a mark of beauty and virility in many different cultures for millennia, and that isn't for no reason. I've been waiting, but we have yet to enter the era of male-pattern baldness being sexy.

None of this means I'm saying that women are consciously choosing their hairstyle for the express purpose of pleasing their male masters or any nonsense like that. It's more likely a heavily-ingrained cultural trait that dates back to even older selection biases. One of easiest ways even today to determine the health of an animal at a glance is to observe the state of its coat.

I also said this:


Some of it may also just be ingrained. Most kids don't choose their own haircuts at an early age; and little girls whose mothers always had them wear their hair long might grow up being more comfortable keeping their hair long out of habit.

Which happens to be somewhat similar to your explanation of why you keep your hair long,
I grew up with long hair and am accustomed to itbut which you ignored.

[AliceLost]

You can be offended all you want. That's on you.

If you think there aren't cultural and selection factors which contribute to how people (of both sexes) have worn their hair in the past and (less so) in the present, that is fine by me; But long hair has been a mark of beauty and virility in many different cultures for millennia, and that isn't for no reason. I've been waiting, but we have yet to enter the era of male-pattern baldness being sexy.

I wasn't offended by you saying that hair factors into the cultural factors that we consider sexually attractive, or that wearing it long can be a choice to attract sexual partners. Both of those are reasonable statements that I agree with, just like your second statement (which I didn't ignore, I chose not to rebut it because I don't disagree with it). You said that
Females will generally want to call attention to and accentuate the traits that males look for, which is what I found offensive.

[Crow]

I wasn't offended by you saying that hair factors into the cultural factors that we consider sexually attractive, or that wearing it long can be a choice to attract sexual partners. Both of those are reasonable statements that I agree with, just like your second statement (which I didn't ignore, I chose not to rebut it because I don't disagree with it). You said that , which is what I found offensive.

Would it be more reasonable if I said that all sexes do that to some degree? They do- but I wrote females because, well- that's what the thread was about.

[KillingAScarab]

I don't really like getting haircuts, because it costs an arm and a leg to get one (wouldn't if I was a man but that's a whole other issue :smallannoyed:).I knew a barber who at one point had her own barber shop and at another worked out of a salon. In both cases, men's haircuts cost about the same, but you could look over at the cost of what was offered by others in the salon and there was a difference of around 20 USD.


I'm also pretty sure that mens hair is about the same. The guys hair is curly, he used to keep it long, but cut it to look more "professional" It's way more curly now since the curls aren't being pulled out by the weight. And his hair behaves a lot like my moms, in that humidity will make the curls/wave frizz out into a crazy poof. He now keeps it short even though he doesn't have to anymore, mainly because once it gets a bit longer it constantly gets in his face and tickels his nose. He'd rather keep cutting it short, than endure that annoying face tickling stage to grow it back out long, and that's literally the only reason his hair isn't long again.I am in a similar stage, now. Others are trying to push me towards shorter hair, but perhaps I should just get a trim to even things out, then let it grow further.

[2D8HP]

As it happens, I grew up with long hair and am accustomed to it, and I like the way it feels. It's also quite unruly when it's short, so it's easier to take care of this way. I tried cutting it short when I was in university, and I was constantly being harassed

I'm going to make a blanket guess (based on limited personal evidence) that both men and women often wear their hair to either please romantic partners (and potential romantic partners), and/or to avoid being harassed.
Decades ago this man (me) had long hair which the women who became my wife liked. Then I was hired by a woman (the manager) for my first full-time job, and her boss (the owner) then made it clear that he did not like men having long hair. Since then I've noticed that most of my male bosses treat me better when my hair is short, which is shorter than they way most women seem to like men to have.
I suspect many women wear they hair long to be accepted by their bosses.
I also suspect that if the majority of bosses were women, then more women would have short hair, and more men would have long hair.

[Dogmantra]

What do full, healthy, long locks mean to the women who sport them?

emergency food source

[Blackhawk748]

As aman with long hair, i keep it this way cuz i like it this way. Thats it, i like looking like Mitsurugi or a Viking (ok my beard isnt long enough for true Viking but you get what i mean :smalltongue:) I mean i dont do anything with it and i only use a Shampoo Conditioner combo and my hair looks great. I actual get several compliments from women on it.

However when i go to family gatherings its all "Hey Jesus" "Hows it going Jesus?". Seriously, it was funny the first 2 or 3 times and now its just annoying. Or the worst question ever:

"So when you gonna cut your hair?" Never. Its not gonna happen. My hair is staying this long and if someone doesnt like it, then they can go *long sting of expletives* with a man sized Crab. Its my hair and i will do with it as i please.

Theres also the wonderful implication that i will stay single if i have long hair. Well fine, if i meet a woman and my hair is a deal breaker then i didnt wanna be with her anyway.

[Aedilred]

As aman with long hair, i keep it this way cuz i like it this way. Thats it, i like looking like Mitsurugi or a Viking (ok my beard isnt long enough for true Viking but you get what i mean :smalltongue:) I mean i dont do anything with it and i only use a Shampoo Conditioner combo and my hair looks great. I actual get several compliments from women on it.

However when i go to family gatherings its all "Hey Jesus" "Hows it going Jesus?". Seriously, it was funny the first 2 or 3 times and now its just annoying. Or the worst question ever:

"So when you gonna cut your hair?" Never. Its not gonna happen. My hair is staying this long and if someone doesnt like it, then they can go *long sting of expletives* with a man sized Crab. Its my hair and i will do with it as i please.

Theres also the wonderful implication that i will stay single if i have long hair. Well fine, if i meet a woman and my hair is a deal breaker then i didnt wanna be with her anyway.

Ugh yeah, the "when are you going to cut your hair?"; "oh, you should totally cut your hair for charity" chorus gets pretty wearisome. The most annoying was my mum during the period when I was growing my hair out and was at home for the summer, and every day she would badger me about what I was going to do with my hair, when I was going to cut it, what my plans with it were, and no matter what I said she would come back the next day with the same nagging questions, to the point where I seriously considered cutting it just to get her to leave me alone.

At least I didn't get the Jesus comparison made. I got a number of other suggestions thrown my way, culminating in the Laughing Cavalier (a friend of mine now gets me Laughing Cavalier tat for birthdays and Christmas every year, years after I cut my hair), but I didn't mind them too much.

It didn't in any way stop me from getting a girlfriend, though: that's undoubtedly personal and probably to an extent age-dependent. I imagine students are more tolerant of that sort of thing (especially in each other) than those approaching middle age. Even if I could grow my hair out now I don't know if any ladies would appreciate it.

[Crow]

I imagine students are more tolerant of that sort of thing (especially in each other) than those approaching middle age. Even if I could grow my hair out now I don't know if any ladies would appreciate it.

As a guy who had long hair right up until it started falling out of my head, my buddies would joke about the middle-aged women that loved my hair. The refrain used to go that I could have any woman I wanted over 45. :smalleek:

[danzibr]

Huh. Interesting thread.

Well, I'm a dude. I've had long hair 3 times now. First started when I was 16, dyed it black (which totally worked, naturally have brown hair, eyebrows are dark, people thought it was natural). I look Italian, btw. Hair is rather straight. Then I wanted it to be brown, cut it, let it grow back. Cut it again when my dad got cancer (my dad, my brother, and myself, we all had long hair). Grew it out again when I was... 24? Last time I cut it off for a few reasons: my son rode around on my shoulders and loved to yank on my hair, I was living in a windy city and it was really annoying, and some jackasses said some rude things.

Nowadays I buzz it every other weekend, down to 0.125 inches.

What I liked about long hair
-It was gorgeous. I wouldn't call myself particularly vain, but man I loved my long hair.
-Kept the scalp warm in winter (didn't do much for the neck, though).
What I didn't like about long hair
-Showers took way longer.
-Hair froze in the winter.
-Kids yanked on it.
-Ergh, that wind.
-Jackasses.

What I like about short hair
-Easy to maintain. Seriously, showers are way shorter.
-Looks more professional. Now, for this one... honestly, I don't know if I personally think it looks more professional, but I know other people think that, especially where I live.
What I dislike about short hair
-Not as gorgeous (opinion, I know).
-Takes some time to buzz every other week.

Why do so many women have long hair? I'd guess the gorgeous factor.

[cobaltstarfire]

Does being catcalled count as rude comments? That apparently happen at least once with the guy when he had long hair, followed up with a "HE'S A MAN?!!1" when the driver passed ahead of him.


He sometimes also gets the "Jesus" jokes, or people assuming he must be a stoner.

[KillingAScarab]

What I didn't like about long hair
-Hair froze in the winter.You might need to explain this one. Would this be after being out in a freezing rain without a hat of some sort?


Does being catcalled count as rude comments? That apparently happen at least once with the guy when he had long hair, followed up with a "HE'S A MAN?!!1" when the driver passed ahead of him.Future space-alien archeologist's log:
With the additions of the wheel, internal combustion engines and densely packed hydrocarbon fuel sources to power them, these beings were capable of providing goods and services over vast distances, dramatically impacting the structure and makeup of their metropolitan areas. Also, jerks were able to expand the territory they patrolled by 120%.

[Recherché]

If you go outside in a cold winter with hair still wet from the bath/shower it can freeze. And very long hair can take very long to dry

[Knaight]

If you go outside in a cold winter with hair still wet from the bath/shower it can freeze. And very long hair can take very long to dry

Yeah. I've run into this intermittently, and it would be more often than that if I didn't bike everywhere and as such have a specialized hat for winter that pretty much removes this problem. It comes up with the winter-walking hat though, and my hair isn't even all that long.

[LudicSavant]

It's a question of culture, not of sex. There are cultures where men have long hair and women don't. For example, Hasidic jewish women shave their heads, while men are supposed to look like this (http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e20167686cf9ae970b-400wi).

In fact, an awful lot of the stuff regarded as sex-based or said to be "human nature" are really just Western culture pretending it's the natural center of the universe yet again (or, just as bad, simply being ignorant of any other cultures existing).

[Crow]

In fact, an awful lot of the stuff regarded as sex-based or said to be "human nature" are really just Western culture pretending it's the natural center of the universe yet again (or, just as bad, simply being ignorant of any other cultures existing).

Whoa there buddy. I believe OP comes from a western culture, so when focusing on the why of what he sees every day, there isn't anything wrong with starting from a western cultural premise.

[2D8HP]

there isn't anything wrong with starting from a western cultural premise.As long as we don't confuse "natural" with "cultural" (though talking about people without culture is like talking about fish without water).
I'm reminded that a lot of what "studies" pass off as "human predilections" turn out to only be the biases of the 20-something North American college students that "social scientists" have easy access to.
Based on a "study" with a 100% feedback of the people at my house, I conclude that 25% of the worlds population are interested in Dungeons & Dragons, 25% in the Super Mario brothers video game, 25% in next seasons episodes of Game of Thrones, and House of Cards, and the remaining 25% of the "world's" population is interested in frequent diaper changes.
Totally scientific
:wink:

[cobaltstarfire]

I've never had my hair freeze in the winter...well back when I had winters...the past years winter never even came, I've moved a bit further north so we'll see.

But I'm lucky enough to have a scalp and hair that doesn't need to shower regularly, so I would wait till a convenient time to do it. Such as on a day when I'd get home a early enough that my hair will be suitably dry by bed time, or a weekend.


One thing that helps long thick hair to dry out a bit faster is to squeeze it out before you get out the shower, and then wrap it up in a towel for a while, then after that pat the hair down with the towel and squeeze it some more. It'll cut several hours off of the drying process.

I'm sure someone is like "why not use a hair dryer?" My answer is that I hate hair dryers, they're loud, damage the hair, and don't appreciably decrease drying time enough to be useful if I'm on a schedule.

[AliceLost]

Whoa there buddy. I believe OP comes from a western culture, so when focusing on the why of what he sees every day, there isn't anything wrong with starting from a western cultural premise.

There's no need to jump on his comment, the OP asked why women wear their hair long. "Western cultural standards" is a pretty good answer to that question.
It's also totally reasonable to point out your baseline assumptions for a discussion like this, because they don't always occur to everyone as baseline standards. A reminder that women wearing long hair and men wearing short hair is a cultural issue, not a universal sex characteristic one, is reasonable.

[Vinyadan]

So, in what cultures is short female hair prevalent?

[2D8HP]

So,in what cultures is short female hair prevalent?
A previous post had one answer:

There are cultures where men have long hair and women don't. For example, Hasidic jewish women shave their heads, while men are supposed to look like this (http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e20167686cf9ae970b-400wi).

[Recherché]

With the Maasai young men have long hair and women shave their heads. In Han China both genders had extremely long hair. Those are just two I know offhand.

[Eldariel]

With the Maasai young men have long hair and women shave their heads. In Han China both genders had extremely long hair. Those are just two I know offhand.

Edo Japan also featured long hair among the higher castes.

[Recherché]

If you reverse the question and instead ask why more cultures encourage short hair in men the answer is pretty straight forward. More cultures have the men as warriors and long hair in battle can be inconvenient.

[LudicSavant]

Man I'm just gonna start quoting Wikipedia.

"In ancient Greece, long hair was a symbol of wealth and power for males, while a shaven head was appropriate for a slave."

"In the European middle ages, shorter hair often signified servitude and peasantry, while long hair was often attributed to freemen, as was the case with the Germanic Goths and Merovingians."

"The Gaelic Irish (both men and women) took great pride in their long hair—for example, a person could be heavily fined for cutting a man's hair short against his will."

"In the past, Bedouin Muslims often wore their hair in long braids, but influences from the Western world have caused a change in attitudes."

"Many Native American men wore long hair before the arrival of western influences on their culture. (In Cherokee legends, for example, males said to be handsome were often described as having "long hair almost to the ground" or similar formulas."

"When African slaves were freed in America, they struggled to reach the social status of whites. Many former slaves tried to conform their hairstyles as part of this struggle. Women, especially, felt pressure to make their hair long and oily, rather than keeping the shorter, tightly coiled style they had known. However, during the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, African-Americans such as Malcolm X advocated hairstyles such as afros and dreadlocks, in order to embrace their race, and to return to West African roots."

"In ancient China and Korea, hair was regarded as a precious legacy from parents. Most people would never cut their hair after they became adults, and cutting off one's hair was a penalty for minor crimes. Both men and women would coil up their hair and many hair-coiling styles were developed."

"In Southeast Asia and Indonesia, male long hair was valued in until the seventeenth century, when the area adopted outside influences including Islam and Christianity. Invading cultures enforced shorter hairstyles on men as a sign of servitude, as well."

"The Sikhs were commanded by Guru Gobind Singh at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar in 1699 to wear long uncut hair called Kesh at all times to signify the strength and vitality of the Sikh people."

There are so many more...

Again, the real answer is "modern western culture." Now if you want to ask why it came about in modern Western culture, we can talk about that. But if you want to talk about the sexes in general, then you're probably not going to get real answers, because each culture has different reasons for preferring short or long hair in one situation or another.


As long as we don't confuse "natural" with "cultural" (though talking about people without culture is like talking about fish without water).
I'm reminded that a lot of what "studies" pass off as "human predilections" turn out to only be the biases of the 20-something North American college students that "social scientists" have easy access to.

This is unfortunately all too common. An alarming amount of studies in the field of psychology have been demonstrated to be non-repeatable. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/28/psychology-experiments-failing-replication-test-findings-science)

[FinnLassie]

In regards of long hair freezing in the winter:

the struggle is real in Finland.

My hair wasn't even that long last winter when it was around -20 to -30°C where I live and it was such a hassle every morning to figure out what to do. I had a 30-45min communte to uni so waking up early was... meh... like back in the day I would just wake up one or two hours earlier than I was supposed to, wash my hair and spend 1-2h blow drying it to get it completely or somewhat dry (air drying took 3-4 hours). I could go out of the house with my hair relatively wet during the winter when I was in high school since the bus went pretty much door to door but there's no way jose today for that even though I have a 5min bike ride / 15min walk to my uni. It freezes up like hell, sometimes even when I've covered everything with woolly hats and hoods and scarves and all.

Yet still I voluntarily decide to keep this damned mane on my head instead of cutting it to a short bob like I about 20 months ago. :smalltongue:

[Vinyadan]

Wax gets really cold, much colder than unwaxed hair would. Does this happen in the nordic countries too? Or is a different kind of wax for sale there?

[LudicSavant]

I've read that "a woman's hair is her glory" though I misplace the quote.

It's a quote from Saint Paul in the New Testament. Again, Western culture.

[Recherché]

Wax gets really cold, much colder than unwaxed hair would. Does this happen in the nordic countries too? Or is a different kind of wax for sale there?

I dunno about Nordic countries but I would never put wax in long hair. Wax makes hair stiff and long hair won't flow prettily if there's wax in it.

[AMFV]

It's a quote from Saint Paul in the New Testament. Again, Western culture.

To be fair, Paul is from Israel, which isn't really "Western" Culture as it's traditionally considered. There area also other cultures that have similar viewpoints on long female hair that are not western culture (Arabic culture is one such. I believe Japanese as well). There are exceptions for each culture during different time periods. But I wouldn't say that long hair is really western exclusive. It's fairly common in many cultures.

[LudicSavant]

To be fair, Paul is from Israel, which isn't really "Western" Culture as it's traditionally considered.

To say that a famous quote from a major culturally relevant text oft repeated and cited as a justification for modern western behavior "isn't really Western culture as it's traditionally considered" is a misleading statement at best. And that's about all I think I'm allowed to say on the subject given the forum rules on religious topics.


But I wouldn't say that long hair is really western exclusive.

Neither would I, which is why that's not what I said. :smallannoyed:

Tons of cultures encourage long hair for women or short hair for men. It is also the case that tons of cultures encourage short hair for women or long hair for men. The point is that the difference here isn't sex, it's culture.

[Vinyadan]

Again, Western culture.

That's a very broad view of "western" :P Especially since the Western world didn't exist back then.

[LudicSavant]

That's a very broad view of "western"

No, it most certainly isn't. It is an influential part of the western tradition. The fact that it was also part of another culture does not detract from that.

Here's what the term "western culture" means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#Western_culture

[Hiro Protagonest]

The fact that it was also part of another culture does not detract from that.

Okay. Semantics time. It's not just Western culture.

[LudicSavant]

Okay. Semantics time. It's not just Western culture.

Obviously. Which is why nobody said that.

[Spiryt]

Well, there obviously is a sexual difference - balding is a thing strongly associated with androgenic hormones, after all.

Now, probably whole books could be written about actual correlations between hormone levels, their effects on psyche and body and baldness, it's even muddier ground than most of those things.

But it's a thing. :smallbiggrin:

[Vinyadan]

I guess that, if you are asked how many candies you have, and you have 5, you can also answer that you have 2, because there objectively are 2 candies in your pocket - and also three more.

[cobaltstarfire]

Well, there obviously is a sexual difference - balding is a thing strongly associated with androgenic hormones, after all.

Now, probably whole books could be written about actual correlations between hormone levels, their effects on psyche and body and baldness, it's even muddier ground than most of those things.

But it's a thing. :smallbiggrin:

Does anyone know why high levels of testosterone cause hair loss?

It causes a specific kind of hair loss pattern too doesn't it? (different from the kind you get from inheriting whatever gene from your mother)

It's kind of weird though, that having some hair with a bald spot is seen as bad, to the point that men will just shave it all off, but being completely bald is fine, except for when its not, or the viewer can't tell if it's natural or shaving induced...

I guess that goes back to general health assumptions too somehow.

[LudicSavant]

Does anyone know why high levels of testosterone cause hair loss?

http://www.healthline.com/health-slideshow/hair-loss-and-testosterone#1

[Aedilred]

Does anyone know why high levels of testosterone cause hair loss?

It causes a specific kind of hair loss pattern too doesn't it? (different from the kind you get from inheriting whatever gene from your mother)

It's kind of weird though, that having some hair with a bald spot is seen as bad, to the point that men will just shave it all off, but being completely bald is fine, except for when its not, or the viewer can't tell if it's natural or shaving induced...

I guess that goes back to general health assumptions too somehow.
I think it's a particular subtype of testosterone, and is also associated with facial and body hair growth. As someone once put it, it seems ironically cruel that the same hormone which gives men their beards is responsible for stripping them of their scalps a few years later. I'm very jealous of my friends who both can grow a good beard and still have a good head of hair. I'm not sure of the precise medical underpinnings of it though.

Baldness in all its stages still tends to come associated with disparaging remarks from others. The older one gets, the less that happens, as it's seen as a natural part of the ageing process to an extent (and other men, who can be among the stone-throwers, increasingly find themselves in glass houses), but among younger men who are losing (or have lost) their hair, they often find it picked up and commented upon, in my experience. Which, even when it's not meant nastily, I still wish would mostly just stop, because it reminds you of, draws attention to, and confirms that others have noticed, a feature of your physical appearance that you have pretty much no control over and which for most men isa feature they're unhappy about.

[AMFV]

Does anyone know why high levels of testosterone cause hair loss?

It causes a specific kind of hair loss pattern too doesn't it? (different from the kind you get from inheriting whatever gene from your mother)

it's a specific kind of testosterone in conjunction with genetics. If you don't have the genetics to lose hair, you won't regardless of how much testosterone is present in your system. The type of hair loss you suffer from is completely genetic as well.

[danzibr]

You might need to explain this one. Would this be after being out in a freezing rain without a hat of some sort?
Didn't give it enough time after a shower.

[Vinyadan]

There's also hair loss on the lower leg. It can be due to friction but I think there's also a genetic variant, and I only hear about it in men.

[Frontier]

Have you ever seen a girl flip her head and have all that hair fly around and give you that sly smile? It's their feminine power! Seriously though, it makes me weak in the knees. There's something about long hair that does it for me. Short hair just seems too masculine and a turn off.

[kyoryu]

I'm pretty sure it means they're mammals.

[Wardog]

Have you ever seen a girl flip her head and have all that hair fly around and give you that sly smile?
Only in shampoo adverts :smallsmile:


In fact, an awful lot of the stuff regarded as sex-based or said to be "human nature" are really just Western culture pretending it's the natural center of the universe yet again (or, just as bad, simply being ignorant of any other cultures existing).

Worse still, when its a recent Western cultural quirk being treated as universal and given evolutionary explanations. (E.g. pink being a ''girl's colour'' has only consistently been a thing since the 20th century).


After all, in the state of nature both men and women would presumably have long hair.
All our close ape relatives have short hair (all over). Does anyone know where humans or pre-humans started getting long hair on their heads? And when we started cutting it? That might help understand this.

[Grinner]

All our close ape relatives have short hair (all over). Does anyone know where humans or pre-humans started getting long hair on their heads? And when we started cutting it? That might help understand this.

Historically, fashions have varied. At some point in the Dark Ages, some men favored long hair and handlebar mustaches. In others, short hair was the order of the day. Not sure about women, although short hair for women seems to be a thing in some places in Africa.

[Vinyadan]

I have seen girls be very very happy about more or less intended compliments about their hair, which I haven't generally noticed in men.

[Lethologica]

I have seen girls be very very happy about more or less intended compliments about their hair, which I haven't generally noticed in men.
From personal experience--it depends on the men.

[rooster707]

Have you ever seen a girl flip her head and have all that hair fly around and give you that sly smile?

No... but I have had a girl flip her head and have all that hair fly around and hit me in the face. I don't think she even noticed. :smalltongue:

[Donnadogsoth]

Has anyone noticed hairstyles for women that men never affect?

What comes to mind is the one-eye-covered look. I have never seen any man, long haired or short haired, affecting that look, even in historical drawings or photographs. What does that look mean?

From quora:

"I think the point of this hairstyle, which I sort of have, is the point of any hairstyle. And that point is: it looks good. And by good I mean sexy, modern, carefree, mysterious and flattering."

[YossarianLives]

Has anyone noticed hairstyles for women that men never affect?

What comes to mind is the one-eye-covered look. I have never seen any man, long haired or short haired, affecting that look, even in historical drawings or photographs. What does that look mean?

From quora:

"I think the point of this hairstyle, which I sort of have, is the point of any hairstyle. And that point is: it looks good. And by good I mean sexy, modern, carefree, mysterious and flattering."
I'm surprised. I've seen, quite literally, dozens of men with hair like that. I think it's a very stereotypically "emo" look.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'm surprised. I've seen, quite literally, dozens of men with hair like that. I think it's a very stereotypically "emo" look.

And I have never seen anyone do their hair like that, only in fiction.

[cobaltstarfire]

And I have never seen anyone do their hair like that, only in fiction.

My sister had hair like that for a while.

I hate that kind of hair, but I kept it to myself.

(no seriously I don't know why exactly but that kind of hair makes a senseless anger boil in the bottom of my chest)

[Lethologica]

And I have never seen anyone do their hair like that, only in fiction.
watch more kpop
or don't
just know that you can find it there
should you ever so desire

[Knaight]

And I have never seen anyone do their hair like that, only in fiction.

It was in with the emo crowd when I was in highschool*; I suspect that this is one of those things where you either see a lot of it all at once if you're in the right place at the right time or you basically never see it. I don't think I've ever actually seen a pair of bell bottoms for instance - yet I have no particular reason to think reports of their popularity during the 1980's is inaccurate.

*My off-period fencing buddy had it, for a concrete example. It didn't seem to have any effect on his fencing skills.

[2D8HP]

I don't think I've ever actually seen a pair of bell bottoms for instance - yet I have no particular reason to think reports of their popularity during the 1980's is inaccurate.Oh they were quite real (and at least in my area some women wore a black polyester version of "flares" in the early 1990's), but I wore them as a school boy in the 1970's and *shudder* the early 80's.
In particular I remember the J.C. Penny corduroy bell bottoms that would make a "scritch" sound when the fabric of thr pants legs would contact as I walked, and I remember wondering "why don't they make these narrower so it doesn't rub against itself and make that noise?".
I also had paisley print shirts with wide lapels, and yes my hair was quite long.
My Dad still dresses that way.
In the mid 1980's I had a "Members Only" Jacket.
But what's worse is the partially shaved head combined with tight black pants (and black shirts, boots etc.) that I wore in the later 1980's.
And yes I had suit jackets with shoulder pads.
*shudder*
While they wouldn't fit me anymore, I wish I still had my "Derby", and motorcycle jackets I wore in the 1980's though.

[Knaight]

Oh they were quite real (and at least in my area some women wore a black polyester version of "flares" in the early 1990's), but I wore them as a school boy in the 1970's and *shudder* the early 80's.
In particular I remember the J.C. Penny corduroy bell bottoms that would make a "scritch" sound when the fabric of thr pants legs would contact as I walked, and I remember wondering "why don't they make these narrower so it doesn't rub against itself and make that noise?".
I also had paisley print shirts with wide lapels, and yes my hair was quite long.

Hence the example. In school in the 2000's, they were nowhere to be seen - the same thing can easily apply to the hair style. Not having personally seen them just doesn't mean much in either case.

EDIT: Better example: I think I've seen one mullet, maybe.

[The Great Wyrm]

Biologically speaking, it's probably an honest signal (http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/handicap_old/sexual_selection.html) of mate quality. This would be similar to bright plumage on a bird.

[norival1992]

I'm a little disappointed with the lack of awareness about what this means with the good hair is not a reference to white people it's a reference to a black girl with non nappy natural hair

[Ifni]

I'm a little disappointed with the lack of awareness about what this means with the good hair is not a reference to white people it's a reference to a black girl with non nappy natural hair

When you say "the lack of awareness about what this means", what's "this"? I know that black women in the US get a lot of pressure to have "good hair", and this ties in to other problems like (some) black women's natural hair being considered "unprofessional" even if it's neat and tidy. But I think you're the first person in the thread who used the term "good hair", most of the discussion has been about why many women would choose to have long hair (although it's been correctly pointed out that (a) this is not at all a cultural universal, (b) one of the major reasons is 'social pressure', and (c) an equally legitimate question is 'why do many men choose to have short hair?')

I agree that to the extent that there's social pressure to have long straight-ish hair in any given society, this is a lot rougher on women from ethnic groups where hair doesn't naturally do that, and there are many women in that situation.

[Donnadogsoth]

Biologically speaking, it's probably an honest signal (http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/handicap_old/sexual_selection.html) of mate quality. This would be similar to bright plumage on a bird.

Interesting some cultures actively suppress this sort of female signalling, viz., parts of the Middle East where the only man who ever sees a woman's hair is her husband. Serving a purpose (e.g., heightening eros and matrimonial bonds) but somewhat unnatural from a mate-seeking perspective.

[Pivotal]

I have long as a guy. For me its become part of my identity, though I guess its mostly there now to keep my wife happy :)

[Themrys]

I have seen girls be very very happy about more or less intended compliments about their hair, which I haven't generally noticed in men.

How often do you compliment men's hair, though? On the few occasions that I had reason to do so, the men in question were rather flattered.


Men with long hair are hot. It's simple evolution theory. Like a peacock's tail feathers. A man with long and shiny hair is not only in good health, he is also obviously able to survive despite the disadvantage that long hair is in a fight. Sexy! :smalltongue:

No idea why women have long hair. Well, I have long hair because those nasty hairdressers are sexist and charge women more than men, and long hair is easier to cut oneself. (I don't have the courage to just shave my head. For one, I would be cold in winter, and also, it is just not culturally accepted.)