CoS spellcaster choice

[AttilatheYeon]

Hi, i've been playing a Dragon Sorc in CoS. I was thinking i'd try to use Careful Spell with CCs, but i can't seem to take enough CCs and damage spells with the low number of spells known. What spells do you guys take as a Sorceror? Specifically at level 5.

Thanks for all replies

[NecroDancer]

At level 5 I would take fly, it's a very valuable spell.

[NNescio]

Hi, i've been playing a Dragon Sorc in CoS. I was thinking i'd try to use Careful Spell with CCs, but i can't seem to take enough CCs and damage spells with the low number of spells known. What spells do you guys take as a Sorceror? Specifically at level 5.

Thanks for all replies

Fireball is the gamechanging AoE at that level. Not that good with Careful Spell though (since friendly fire will still deal half damage unless they have Evasion), but the above-average damage can wipe out entire packs of enemies (which tend to have lower CR and HP to compensate for their numbers unless your DM is all out to murder your party).

If you want CC pick Hypnotic Pattern, or maybe Fear (generally less useful, but you face fewer immunities). Those two spells are normally extremely good but become less so in CoS (due to the creature types and immunities).

For mobility you can pick Fly, but I'd personally delay that choice due to the limited spells known of the Sorc. Then again if your DM regularly throw melee enemies (or crevasses and pits) at you this can be a potent gamechanger too (it doesn't really help your teammates to not get hit though, unless you cast it on them, which, well, becomes even riskier for you). In any case Feather Fall becomes a necessity if you expect to use Fly regularly.

Haste has the potential to deal a lot of damage over time, especially when combined with Twin, but it's risky unless you have Warcaster (even if you already have Con save proficiency), and it doesn't really "turn the tide of battle" immediately, so to speak. Good pick later on, not so much at Level 5, unless your party DPR members are well-optimized.

Dispel Magic and Counterspell can be useful if you run into spellcasters, but as a Sorc with limited spells known those are not very high on the priority list.

I'd also recommend switching your lower level spells known for defensive ones, like Shield, Misty Step and Invisibility. Disguise Self might help if your DM's monsters have a habit of focusing on unarmored caster types (read: you), and it also has significant use for social encounters (and can potentially be combined with Friends, depending on DM's adjudication). You may want to swap out Sleep if you have it -- it becomes less useful at Level 5, especially in CoS (again, creature types).

[AttilatheYeon]

So i forgot to give some info on my toon, this is what i get for posting while day drinking🙃.

I'm gonna play a Hellfire Tiefling. This gives me a 2nd level Burning Hands once per day. I like all the suggestions, unfortunately i'm only goanna have 6 spells known. I'm thinking of Ray of Sickness, Shield, Misty Step, Web, Fireball, and Hypnotic Pattern.

My problem is i'm still not satisfied with this loadout. The low spells known for a sorc combined with no ritual casting is making me really consider going back to Wizard. Except a friend told me there would be a really good boost to sorcs near the end of CoS.

[NecroDancer]

I'd suggest switching out Ray of sickness for charm person

[NNescio]

So i forgot to give some info on my toon, this is what i get for posting while day drinking🙃.

I'm gonna play a Hellfire Tiefling. This gives me a 2nd level Burning Hands once per day. I like all the suggestions, unfortunately i'm only goanna have 6 spells known. I'm thinking of Ray of Sickness, Shield, Misty Step, Web, Fireball, and Hypnotic Pattern.

My problem is i'm still not satisfied with this loadout. The low spells known for a sorc combined with no ritual casting is making me really consider going back to Wizard. Except a friend told me there would be a really good boost to sorcs near the end of CoS.

If you have a Wis or Int of 13, you can take Ritual Caster to shore up that weakness. But yeah, otherwise, pretty good spell choices, except for Ray of Sickness which requires both a hit and a failed save to work (as the damage is negligible later on).

[AttilatheYeon]

Well i was hoping to take Inspiring Leader at 4 then an ASI at 8. That way i'll have a 22 after the Amber Temple.

[djreynolds]

I agree sorcerer is the best choice for CoS only because of the lack of scrolls available.

Protection from evil is a great choice to give to tanks and yourself, both of you lack wisdom save proficiency.
So is haste as both spells should be able to be twinned. Chromatic orb can be twinned also.

Anyone can take ritual caster.

I would take elemental adept to help penetrate some of these immunities and resistances. Empowered spell is good but the game goes up to 10th, you may not be able to squeeze in this metamagic.

Fly is another good spell as is feather fall, cough... cough feather fall.

As a sorcerer you are not there for utility, you are there to blast.

Who else is in the party?

[NNescio]

I agree sorcerer is the best choice for CoS only because of the lack of scrolls available.

Protection from evil is a great choice to give to tanks and yourself, both of you lack wisdom save proficiency.
So is haste as both spells should be able to be twinned. Chromatic orb can be twinned also.

Protection from Evil and Good is not on the Sorcerer's spell list. Also, Chromatic Orb's damage scales very poorly, and if you aren't up against resistances you're better off burning the slot on Twin/Quicken to turbocharge your cantrip instead. (and if you're up against resistances, just use a CC or buff spell. Plus, well, dedicated blasters will take Elemental Adept anyway). Use the spell known for something else.

And well, Wizards can act as both utility casters (via ritual spells) and blasters (for Evokers)/CCs (heck, Evokers do AoE blasting better than Sorcs), even with zero scrolls available. They get a ton of spells to add to their spellbook each level.

The Sorc's main shtick is Twin/Subtle to pull off some combos not available to other spellcasters, and maybe the occasional Quicken if they need a bit more damage to kill a weakened target or an emergency Minor Illusion/Disengage for cover (Quicken is mostly overrated unless you're a Sorlock or have a strong repeating action spell like Sunbeam). Subtle is particularly strong in social encounters, and basically acts as EECM for the Sorc in combat (letting him cast spells in situations where most spellcasters can't) .Lack of spells known (even when compared to a Bard or Warlock, never mind a Wizard) is very. very crippling.


I would take elemental adept to help penetrate some of these immunities and resistances. Empowered spell is good but the game goes up to 10th, you may not be able to squeeze in this metamagic.

Elemental Adept only ignores resistance, not immunity.

[djreynolds]

You are correct, sorry, no protection from evil. Very sad. Good catch.

I just didn't seem to find any scrolls in CoS until the end game.

Luckily I played a cleric. Our bladesinger held her own.

But my cleric was the guy for utility stuff and our warlock.

The sorcerer is our party though did a lot of damage.

[NNescio]

You are correct, sorry, no protection from evil. Very sad. Good catch.

I just didn't seem to find any scrolls in CoS until the end game.

Luckily I played a cleric. Our bladesinger held her own.

But my cleric was the guy for utility stuff and our warlock.

The sorcerer is our party though did a lot of damage.

Was the DM allowing him to cast more than one non-cantrip spell per turn via Quicken, by any chance?

[djreynolds]

No, he just hardly missed it seemed and he had selected empower spell.

Lot of damage resistant stuff in CoS,

Question, as I only know sorcerer by playing with others in the party, and I usually play a wizard... with a vast spell book.

How does careful spell compare to sculpt spell?

And might this OP, snag a level of wizard just for the ritual caster that way and some non-ability dependent 1st level spells.

We fight Strahd next Wednesday, if we survive the catacombs.

It sucks because the game only goes to 10th, and my cleric was in no way going to multiclass, really needed to get greater restoration. And death ward was a huge boon.

And I wished I had feather fall as a cleric, narrow stairs, goats and mountains, and big birds....

[NNescio]

No, he just hardly missed it seemed and he had selected empower spell.

Lot of damage resistant stuff in CoS,

Question, as I only know sorcerer by playing with others in the party, and I usually play a wizard... with a vast spell book.

Sounds like the Warlock should have a fun time with his at-will force damage.



How does careful spell compare to sculpt spell?

Careful Spell is better for BFC effects that have no effect on successful saves. Most of the usual BFC spells are Conjuration/Illusion/Enchantment and can't benefit from Sculpt Spell anyway.

If you're going to blast though, Sculpt Spell is generally better, because most of the better AoE blasts are evocation, and Sculpt Spell can be applied all day long at no cost to yourself. More importantly, creatures who make their (automatically granted by Sculpt Spell) save take no damage, unlike Careful Spell (which costs 1 Sorc point and don't give creatures a free pass on the damage).

Evocation does have some BFC spells, but the very good ones (Wall of Force/Forcecage), those don't offer saves (which is why they're so damned good). That said, you can Sculpt Wind Wall and Wall of Fire. Sculpted Wall of Fire is a very potent BFC.




And might this OP, snag a level of wizard just for the ritual caster that way and some non-ability dependent 1st level spells.

Wizard's Ritual Casting class feature only works for Wizard spells in your spellbook. The other classes' Ritual Casting also only work on their own class spells, and not those from multiclass.

[djreynolds]

CoS is a dangerous world, perhaps he should just go bladesinger wizard anyhow. That sword rocks.

[NecroDancer]

I can't wait to find the scroll your mentioning, my tomelock/bard needs some rituals

[AttilatheYeon]

So it seems most people are saying my spell choises are probably as good as they are gonna get. I guess i'll try out a Wizard. Course this means no 22 in my main caster stat 🙁.

How do sorcs play at the mid levels? Say around 9? Do they finally catch up? I know that Twinned Haste is pretty good, but does that make up for fewer spells known and fewer spells on my list?

[khachaturian]

sort of depends on DM interpretation of the rules, but careful spell with web seems like a nice combination- the restrained condition is terrible. a potential list with careful and twinned could be

shield, phantasmal force, scorching ray, web, fireball, haste

since you can use spell slots to recover sorcery points, I wouldn't worry about not having many level 1 spells. what other characters are in the party?

[NNescio]

So it seems most people are saying my spell choises are probably as good as they are gonna get. I guess i'll try out a Wizard. Course this means no 22 in my main caster stat 🙁.

How do sorcs play at the mid levels? Say around 9? Do they finally catch up? I know that Twinned Haste is pretty good, but does that make up for fewer spells known and fewer spells on my list?

At mid levels Wizards start getting very good class features (effectively free metamagic and/or escape options), and most get ridiculously good capstones (especially the Illusionist's Illusory Reality). To add insult to injury the Sorc's spells known progression starts to slow down at level 11 (really, WoTC, really? Nice job kicking the underdog).

That said, you do get to pull off Twin Polymorph shenanigans at level 7 (becoming Twin T-Rexes at Level 8). But no, sorry, it doesn't make up for the more limited list, the lack of spells known (even compared to Warlocks and Bards), and losing Ritual Casting.

(It can be a very fun way to play secondary arcane caster though, and the Sorc excels in social situations and against enemy mage hunters due to Subtle.)