Lvl 3 Storm Sorcerer / Tempest Cleric

[SirThinksALot]

I'm working on building a Stormborn Sorcerer / Tempest Cleric multiclass, starting at level 3. I know there are some other threads discussing this build, and I've read through them, but I am looking for some more individualized feedback on my build for this game.

We rolled the stats and then the DM adjusted them for party balance, so I have a rather non-standard set of stats to work with. I rolled: 9, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14 and my DM gave me five more points to distribute as I see fit (the rest of the group rolled remarkably high). I am thinking Variant Human (Warcaster feat), and distributing them as the following.

STR 12
DEX 13
CON 16
INT 9
WIS 14
CHA 16

I envision the character as a mobile melee fighter, taking advantage of the free bonus action movement of the Storm sorcerer and access to Booming Blade and Shocking Grasp, combined with the armor and healing/buff spells of the cleric.

I'm still debating a few things:

Would it be better to take DEX 14 and WIS 13?

Obviously this build really starts to shine around level 5 or 6, but I'm not sure in which order to take the levels. I definitely want to start Sorcerer for the CON save, but I'm not sure what the best division is after that. Should I aim to get to Sorcerer 3 ASAP for metamagic, or put in two or three levels of cleric for Divine Magic and access to 2nd level cleric spells like Hold Person and Spiritual Weapon?

Warcaster seems like a very useful feat for this build, but Elemental Adept would be good too. Pros/cons?

[Draco4472]

With stats like those, a sorcerer should be golden. A cleric...not so much.

But min-maxing aside, it depends on what you would be taking more levels in. I'd assume a minimum of 2 Cleric levels for their very synergistic Channel Divinity and a majority of Sorcerer (LIGHTNING BOLT!).

I'd advise against buffing Dex., as you'll be in Heavy armor, and a better Wis. to make use of some of those awesome Cleric spells.

I'd start with Cleric 2/Sorcerer 1 so you get Channel Divinity off the bat, but Sorcerer 3 is also advisable for Metamagic.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Elemental Adept: Lighting as a variant human is a great choice, and I'd take the Wis. save proficiency over Con.

[SirThinksALot]

So you would go STR 13, DEX 12, WIS 14 and take Chain mail? Plus a shield of course.

I intend to focus mainly on Sorcerer. I would want at least two levels of Cleric for Destructive Wrath. Three gives me 2nd level Cleric spells, and as someone else on the forum pointed out, Hold Person + Max damage auto crit Chromatic Orb is a wicked combination. But I likely won't put many more levels into cleric than that, because it's MAD.

The main question right now is whether to start Sor 1/ Cleric 2, then do two more levels of Sor, or start Sor 2/Cleric 1, then do another level of Sorc to get Metamagic before worrying about getting the Channel Divinity.

Why would you pick the WIS save over CON? I would think maintaining concentration as a melee fighter would come up more often than WIS saves.

[ES Curse]

Ugh, Tempest/Storm is overrated.

Paladin 2/Storm Sorcerer X is where it's at

[Oramac]

STR 12
DEX 13
CON 16
INT 9
WIS 14
CHA 16


Would it be better to take DEX 14 and WIS 13?

Obviously this build really starts to shine around level 5 or 6, but I'm not sure in which order to take the levels. I definitely want to start Sorcerer for the CON save, but I'm not sure what the best division is after that. Should I aim to get to Sorcerer 3 ASAP for metamagic, or put in two or three levels of cleric for Divine Magic and access to 2nd level cleric spells like Hold Person and Spiritual Weapon?

Warcaster seems like a very useful feat for this build, but Elemental Adept would be good too. Pros/cons?

Having played the build (currently 8th level, 2 Cleric; 6 Storm), I'm going to disagree with some of the previous posters.

Definitely swap your Wis/Dex scores. You need a 15 Str for plate, and with a 14 dex, half-plate is only 1 AC behind, which is more than adequate. Plus, you'll probably find/buy half-plate long before you find/buy a set of plate, unless your DM is generous. When you get an ASI, then you can bump Int/Wis to 10/14, respectively. Or just ignore them and pump Cha.

Progression is more a function of your party and preferences than anything. If you don't have a healing type, go cleric. If you do, maybe go Storm. If you're targeted a lot, go Cleric, if not go Storm. Personally, I'd go Storm 1 > Tempest 2 > Storm 17. The armor, Cleric spells, and Channel Divinity are too good to pass up imo.

If you're planning to melee a lot, grab warcaster. If not, grab Ele Adept. Personally, I think Ele Adept is better since your maxed lightning/thunder spells are going to do more damage than a Booming Blade, even if the target moves. Especially if you cast them at higher levels.

EDIT: one other recommendation: From an RP standpoint, it really helps to come up with a good background and a reason why you've taken 2 levels of Cleric. Personally, I like the Sailor background for this since it fits the whole Storm/Tempest theme really well, but a lot of other backgrounds can work well too.

[SirThinksALot]

Thank you Oramac, that is helpful.

I picked cleric over paladin for RP purposes. We're playing a Sword Coast focused game starting in the islands off the coast, so the character is a sailor who was touched by St Elmo's fire and gained magic from it. She took it as a sign of Umberlee's favor and became a cleric.

The group doesn't have a healer. I originally intended to play straight Tempest Cleric, but the Stormborn sorcerer fit so closely with my backstory and had such cool features that I couldn't pass it up. And they do synergize well with each other, I'm just having trouble deciding how to balance the stats.

[Citan]

I'm working on building a Stormborn Sorcerer / Tempest Cleric multiclass, starting at level 3. I know there are some other threads discussing this build, and I've read through them, but I am looking for some more individualized feedback on my build for this game.

We rolled the stats and then the DM adjusted them for party balance, so I have a rather non-standard set of stats to work with. I rolled: 9, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14 and my DM gave me five more points to distribute as I see fit (the rest of the group rolled remarkably high). I am thinking Variant Human (Warcaster feat), and distributing them as the following.

STR 12
DEX 13
CON 16
INT 9
WIS 14
CHA 16

I envision the character as a mobile melee fighter, taking advantage of the free bonus action movement of the Storm sorcerer and access to Booming Blade and Shocking Grasp, combined with the armor and healing/buff spells of the cleric.

I'm still debating a few things:

Would it be better to take DEX 14 and WIS 13?

Obviously this build really starts to shine around level 5 or 6, but I'm not sure in which order to take the levels. I definitely want to start Sorcerer for the CON save, but I'm not sure what the best division is after that. Should I aim to get to Sorcerer 3 ASAP for metamagic, or put in two or three levels of cleric for Divine Magic and access to 2nd level cleric spells like Hold Person and Spiritual Weapon?

Warcaster seems like a very useful feat for this build, but Elemental Adept would be good too. Pros/cons?
Hi ;)
I'd say swap Dex and Wis, as said by Oramac, medium armor will be good enough (since you won't even have high enough STR for heavy. And for a mobile melee fighter, 10 feet speed loss is not acceptable ;)).

As for progression, I'd say
1. Storm 1
2. Cleric 1.
3. Storm 2
4. Storm 3
5. Cleric 2.
6. Storm 4.
Then whatever.
Reasoning behind this leveling is that...
- You (very probably) want Constitution saving throw proficiency.
- Cleric offensive spells won't be much help to you, since you have low WIS. So even the fact that Tempest Cleric gets storm-themed spells won't help you much, you will have to learn them from Sorcerer.
- You are a gish fighter so you will want to get a few offensive spells and slots.
- BUT you want Bless and Healing Words ASAP.
This leveling balances all this and still make you feel your progression (detail in spoiler).
You start with SCAG cantrips and Magic Missile + Shield. Shield because Shield, MM because at first level it's better to have a sure-hit spell imo and since you have only 2 spell slots, Tempestuous Magic is not so good yet even if you took Witch Bolt or Chromatic Orb.

At 2nd level, you can Bless yourself to be better with Booming Blade.

At third level, you get the flexible casting that gives you a bonus 1st level spell slot, and you can learn Chromatic Orb (which also benefits from Bless). Now you have 6 slots, so you can play with your Chromatic Orb+Tempestuous Magic combination while keeping some space for Bless/Healing Words.

At 4th level, you get Shatter spell which will complement greatly your offensive capabilities and makes a better use of your 2nd level slots. You also get Metamagic options (Careful, Quickened and Extended are all great choices depending on your style).

At 5th level, your build is online thanks to Cleric 2nd level Channel Divinity, while your Booming Blade gets a nice upgrade, and you can now continue as you wish.


As for how to continue... Later Domain features seem appealing, but it also means you get plenty of spells that you are not necessarily interested in (Cleric spells). So it may be best to just stick with Sorcerer and be a true fullcaster. ;)

[jaappleton]

Ugh, Tempest/Storm is overrated.

Paladin 2/Storm Sorcerer X is where it's at

I'm sorry, I don't mean to detract from the main topic of the thread, but can you elaborate on this? I don't quite see the synergy.

[Oramac]

Ugh, Tempest/Storm is overrated.

Paladin 2/Storm Sorcerer X is where it's at

I'm sorry, I don't mean to detract from the main topic of the thread, but can you elaborate on this? I don't quite see the synergy.

The basic idea is that Pally 2 gives you Smite and a Fighting Style, and Sorcerer gives you lots of spell slots to use your Smite.

It's definitely a viable build, but it's far more melee focused since you can't smite with a ranged weapon.

[Citan]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to detract from the main topic of the thread, but can you elaborate on this? I don't quite see the synergy.
I second the request, I'm fairly interested in the reasoning behind such a harsh (for Cleric/Sorc) opinion.

Before ES Curse replies in detail, plz allow me to try on the topic.

Paladin 2 / Storm Sorcerer 18, for me, is a full caster with the addition of... (comparison with Tempest Cleric 2 / Storm Sorcerer 18).

1. healing / buffs spells
Paladin gets some nice exclusive spells over Cleric, such as Compelled Duel, Divine Favor or Thunderous Smite. But he can prepare only 1+CHA.
Cleric gets great cantrips (Sacred Flame, Guidance, Spare the Dying), and also good exclusives such as Healing Words, Bane, Sanctuary, but can prepare 2+WIS.
I'd say it's a draw here, because it depends much on personal interest in spell lists and exclusives (both get Bless, Command and Shield of Faith anyways). Although I would be personally a bit biaised towards Cleric because Healing Words (more useful in fight than Cure Wounds) Sanctuary and cantrips, as well as one more spellcaster level (good in the long run).
But for the sake of the current discussion let's say...
Draw

2. MADness
Pal has STR requirement, so STR+CHA whatever happens.
Cleric / Sorc could very well drop any weapon attack to cope with WIS+CHA... Or even only CHA (confer a recent thread about a no-weapon Storm Sorcerer). And if he wants to use a weapon, he can take Magic Initiate Druid or just dump WIS and pick up STR or DEX.
So Cleric/Sorc is, at worst, the same as Pal/Sorc. But leaves more build options to the player (being able to go DEX can be nice for survivability).
Advantage Cleric.

3. Medium Armor, Shield and all weapon proficiencies
Paladin gives martial weapons so tops normal Cleric, but Tempest gives martial weapons and heavy armor.
Advantage Cleric.

4. Wisdom and Charisma proficiencies
Whether you start Sorcerer or not, Cleric and Paladin gives same proficiencies.
Draw.

5. Fighting Style
Paladin exclusive, and great whatever the choice because whatever your build is there is a useful Fighting Style that corresponds. Great for any multiclass, even those not relying on weapons.
Advantage Paladin.

6. Lay on Hands
Meh on a lvl 2 Paladin, but can heal poison or disease.
Cleric must way 3rd level to do that.
(small) Advantage Paladin.

7. NOT Wrath of the Storm
Cleric exclusive, reaction causing lightning or thunder, WIS times per long rest. Good, but resource cost make it more a situational goodie than a true feature.
(small) Advantage Cleric.

Lasts but not least
8. Divine Smite
For a build relying on weapons, this is a great way to go nova. Except that you only have one attack with Attack, so you would need Quicken metamagic to maximize it. Still, it can make for 2 Booming Blade to get additional damage equal to with 2*5d8 (average 45, max 80), but you consume 2 4th level slot in the process.
(good) Advantage Paladin.

9. NOT Destructive Wrath
When you affects at least one creature with your spell, you can roll maximum damage.
For the sake or comparison, let's first say we affect only one creature even with an AOE, and we cast a 4th level spell.
Chromatic Bolt: 6d8 = 48. Meh.
Shatter: 5d8 = 40.
Lightning Bolt: 9d6 = 54.
So, clearly inferior to Divine Smite?
Except that...
- The Divine Smite maximum damage (80) is unrealistic, will be more often close to the average. Whereas Destructive Wrath is 100% sure.
- You can use it with spells that affect several creatures at once. So even hitting only 2 creatures makes it far more interesting, and it totally trumps it if 3 or more creatures are affected. And considering the range it should not be so rare an occurence.
- You have consumed only one spell slot.
- You have consumed only your bonus action (Quicken metamagic)so you can use either your action on a cantrip or anything else for cherry on the cake.
- You can also use it with Chain Lightning, for a whooping 4*10d8 = 320 damage as 6th level, or 560 as a 9th level spell (usually not the best use though) in case you manage to hit all targets.
- And when you do this, you also activate Heart of the Storm for additional potential damage to creatures around (whereas you cannot trigger it with Booming Blade, so no-go with Divine Smite).
(great) Advantage Cleric.

Wrapping up
The only true differentiators and potential added value of Paladin are Fighting Style and Divine Smite. On every other aspect, Tempest Cleric dip is as good or better.
Fighting Style is great for any build. With that said, you could also do without (especially if you don't rely on weapon attacks). So it's good to have, but not enough by itself to justify favoring Paladin over Cleric.
Which means it boils down to Divine Smite VS Destructive. Which has been detailed above
So, really, the only true benefit of Divine Smite over Destructive Wrath is that you are sure to not waste the slots (because you can choose after you hit) and you can potentially wait for a crit to maximize damage (if you can afford it though), as well as modulate slot consumption over one or several fights (whereas DW is 1/short rest).
In terms of pure DPR, it will be much easier to make a great nova when it counts with Destructive Wrath.

Conclusion: if you want to play a 2/18 fullcaster, Cleric/Sorc usually trumps Pal/Sorc by a large margin.
Only if you prefer relying mainly on weapon attacks and deal sustained damage over the day rather than sporadic great nova damage, hence relying on Divine Smite, would Pal/Sorc be better.

And if you are already there, although I agree that Sorcerer 18th feature is great, why not forego it and 9th spells to dip Tempest Cleric 2? That way you get nearly the best of both worlds as far as sustained + nova damage go...

Note that I would have had a slightly different analysis for a 3/17 repartition, because Paladin Oaths all bring great things to the table.
Same with a 6/14 or 7/13 also, in which Paladin would probably take the lead with a significant margin. ;)

[Oramac]

I would agree with Citan's analysis.


9. NOT Destructive Wrath

Chromatic Bolt: 6d8 = 48. Meh.

Just want to point out the aforementioned synergy between Hold Person/Monster and Chromatic Orb.

With a little bit of easy setup, that Orb is now doing 96 damage. More, if you use a higher level slot.

Also, it can be Twinned (as can Hold Person/Monster, or used at a higher level).

[Citan]

I would agree with Citan's analysis.

Just want to point out the aforementioned synergy between Hold Person/Monster and Chromatic Orb.

With a little bit of easy setup, that Orb is now doing 96 damage. More, if you use a higher level slot.

Also, it can be Twinned (as can Hold Person/Monster, or used at a higher level).
Yeah, except that I didn't want to talk about it because it's not actually a Cleric forte. Unless you make a specific build with WIS/CHA main (which is not the most common occurence), you will generally have too low a WIS to try and cast Hold Person "as a Cleric". So you will have to learn and cast it as a Sorcerer.

Furthermore, this is actually a pretty good point also for Paladin. Because crits will equally affect weapon attacks and Divine Smite bonus damage. So while I have not time to do the maths right now, I suspect that between Pal/Sorc booming blade cantrip (with a proper attack stat and potentially GWM) and spending a spell slot on smite, and a Clerc/Sorc casting a same level Chromatic Orb, the difference would be significant but not overwhelming.
And considering that one could only maximize once per short rest, while the other could just not even smite but just dual-cantrip every round (to take advantage of better weapon damage and GWM), since Hold Person lasts several rounds, it evens out in the long run.
Of course, if you combine everything Pal cannot follow (highest cast + Twin).

Meaning that in the end, it does not change much to the comparison nor (logically) the conclusion: Cleric is by far the best for nova, Pal better suits sustained fighting. Unless I made a mistake somewhere oc. ;)

As a side note, if you consider the hypothetic situation where you successfully Twinned Hold Person in a round before, and both creatures are in such a disposition that they can be affected by any area spell, is there any interest in Twinning Chromatic Bolt? Seems to me that Chain Lightning (or even Shatter, Lightning Bolt) is by far better (especially considering that in that case, you can Quicken it to stack a cantrip with your action), no? You are sure to hit at least those two, and maybe even more...

[Oramac]

Meaning that in the end, it does not change much to the comparison nor (logically) the conclusion: Cleric is by far the best for nova, Pal better suits sustained fighting. Unless I made a mistake somewhere oc. ;)

You're right. I just wanted to point out the crit potential with Chromatic Orb.

[EvilAnagram]

I think it's important to remember that when it comes to Sorcerers and Clerics, you will be more focused on casting spells than melee attacks. I played a pure Tempest Cleric from levels 1-9 for a Strahd campaign, and my ability to cast completely overshadowed my ability to hit things around fifth level, even though I dedicated quite a few resources to my melee.

At the end of the day, the only thing I would use my Strength for in a given fight was throwing my Lightning Javelin. After my spell slots reached a certain level, blasting, healing, and buffing were simply more useful at any given moment than anything I could do with a single attack and 16 Str. 2d8+3 simply isn't as good as a maximized Call Lightning or Destructive Wrath.

If you want to focus on melee, I think the Paladin offers more oomf, to use a technical term, than a Cleric does. Either way, I would think about switching that 16 Con for whichever attack stat you'll use for melee.

[Citan]

I think it's important to remember that when it comes to Sorcerers and Clerics, you will be more focused on casting spells than melee attacks. I played a pure Tempest Cleric from levels 1-9 for a Strahd campaign, and my ability to cast completely overshadowed my ability to hit things around fifth level, even though I dedicated quite a few resources to my melee.

At the end of the day, the only thing I would use my Strength for in a given fight was throwing my Lightning Javelin. After my spell slots reached a certain level, blasting, healing, and buffing were simply more useful at any given moment than anything I could do with a single attack and 16 Str. 2d8+3 simply isn't as good as a maximized Call Lightning or Destructive Wrath.

If you want to focus on melee, I think the Paladin offers more oomf, to use a technical term, than a Cleric does. Either way, I would think about switching that 16 Con for whichever attack stat you'll use for melee.
Agreed. Especially when a Sorcerer can still get a reliable melee attack when really required thanks to Shocking Grasp, so it's not like he would actually need weapons in any way. ;)

[Oramac]

Agreed. Especially when a Sorcerer can still get a reliable melee attack when really required thanks to Shocking Grasp, so it's not like he would actually need weapons in any way. ;)

This is true. My character has a dagger and a light crossbow, but I think in 8 levels I've used them maybe twice. Once wasn't even combat. It was just to cut a rope.

[SirThinksALot]

Thanks everyone. After playing the first session, the group doesn't really even need another melee fighter, so I'll just aim for casting and use shocking grasp if I find myself in melee.