Help me make my "scout" viable in the long run

[Lokiron]

Dear playgrounders,

I think this is my first thread on this board, so bear with me.

So I have this 1st level scout in a game (already started) that might go to 20th. At least, the DM threatens to go that far. The other party members are tier 1 casters and a crusader, so I do worry about becoming irrelevant before level 10. My counter plan is to optimize quite a bit and hope the other players optimize less. Of course, the most immediate optimization strategy would be to not be a scout, but I like the concept of skirmish and skills... So this is the point where I remind you to optimize within the non-optimal constraints.

I should mention we have a number of house rules. Notably, we've combined some skills (think 5E) and boiled down feat chains to fewer feats. Dodge needs no declaration and includes Mobility, PBS includes Precise Shot, Weapon focus includes greater, and TWF provides iterative attacks (if DEX requirements are met). Weapon finesse is free (like 5E) for weapons you're proficient with.

Anyway, my main philosophy is to TWF and find ways to full attack with skirmish. My second level will be Warblade for sudden leap as my main schtick, and wolf fang strike as a sort of backup attack.

At first level, my character is mainly this:
Human scout 1
Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 8
Feats: TWF, Leap of the Heavens
He is currently armed with lots of different weapons (sling, javelin, throwing axes) for versatility, rather than focus.

I want to qualify for improved skirmish at level 6, which means Scout1/Warblade1/Scout+4 or Scout1/Warblade1/Ranger1/Scout+3 with swift hunter (Swift Hunter is also my go-to fix if this turns out to be an undead campaign). This at least puts me on par with a pure rogue in terms of extra d6s. Beyond that, I think I should leave Scout for more Warblade or maybe Ranger to progress Skirmish, but then again, it is quite a slow progression beyond Improved Skirmish. One level of Barbarian has, of course, crossed my mind. Pounce and whirling frenzy would, indeed, be nice.

I hope I've presented enough information for you to get my concept, plans, ideas, and concerns.

The simplest piece of advice you can give me, is what to do at level 3. The broader advice is how to compete beyond level 6.

EDIT: Addendum, I use fractional BAB and saves. I think the others do too.

[weckar]

What makes you so attracted to sudden leap, if I may ask? You can - at best - only use it every other round. More likely every 4th round or so if you don't want to be useless too much.

I see that you are already considering swift hunter. This is good. As a skirmisher your main priority should be to hit, not necessarily to do a lot of weapon damage. Therefore a Warlock dip for eldrich glaive (touch attacks!) may be warranted. It also penetrates most relevant DR, which is a bonus.

In the end, though, you'll be a direct damage dealer. You need to consider mostly what you will do once direct damage becomes irrelevant.

[Eladrinblade]

You can do the whole cloistered-cleric/travel devotion trick

Tempest prestige class + bounding assault/rapid blitz will work, but only at the highest levels, because those feats have harsh bab prereqs

Another option, if your DM will ignore errata, is to be a mounted scout

My personal perfect character is a scout/transmuter/swiftblade, but I needed a bit of homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19522203&postcount=1) to make it work. Three levels of scout, two of transmuter, six of theurge, and 9 of swiftblade. Three of the levels of theurge taken during and after swiftblade, to keep trap/lock skills up to date.

[Telonius]

This is kind of a drastic measure, and won't even be an issue until high levels, but Sparring Dummy of the Master is an item from Arms and Equipment Guide that allows you to take a 10-foot-step whenever you'd make a 5-foot-step. The drastic part is that it requires a level in Monk, and costs 30,000 gp.

[Lokiron]

What makes you so attracted to sudden leap, if I may ask? You can - at best - only use it every other round. More likely every 4th round or so if you don't want to be useless too much.

I see that you are already considering swift hunter. This is good. As a skirmisher your main priority should be to hit, not necessarily to do a lot of weapon damage. Therefore a Warlock dip for eldrich glaive (touch attacks!) may be warranted. It also penetrates most relevant DR, which is a bonus.

In the end, though, you'll be a direct damage dealer. You need to consider mostly what you will do once direct damage becomes irrelevant.

I like sudden leap because it seems more versatile than pounce, and also less cheesy. But maybe I should have both. The GM has sort of allowed me getting favored enemy via Barbarian ACF, thus qualifying for swift hunter.

I want to be able to hit multiple times to apply skirmish damage multiple times.

When does direct damage become irrelevant? Can I use maneuvers at this point, to close the gap?


You can do the whole cloistered-cleric/travel devotion trick

Tempest prestige class + bounding assault/rapid blitz will work, but only at the highest levels, because those feats have harsh bab prereqs

Another option, if your DM will ignore errata, is to be a mounted scout

My personal perfect character is a scout/transmuter/swiftblade, but I needed a bit of *snip* to make it work. Three levels of scout, two of transmuter, six of theurge, and 9 of swiftblade. Three of the levels of theurge taken during and after swiftblade, to keep trap/lock skills up to date.

Travel Devotion is one encounter pr day, without turn undead. With a cleric dip I get 2 TU attemps, which fuel one more use of TD. A nice supplement, I suppose, but I wouldn't want this to be the only source of free movement.

What is this theurge?

Overall, I suppose I need either pounce or travel devotion to supplement sudden leap and items (I already have Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker, I'd like more like it).

[Lokiron]

This is kind of a drastic measure, and won't even be an issue until high levels, but Sparring Dummy of the Master is an item from Arms and Equipment Guide that allows you to take a 10-foot-step whenever you'd make a 5-foot-step. The drastic part is that it requires a level in Monk, and costs 30,000 gp.

This is very good to know, but ideally I should move 20 ft. to get Improved Skirmish. Still a good option to have. This can also be accomplished with a high DC tumble skill, right? Or is that 3.0?

[AvatarVecna]

If you're playing from lvl 1, and want to be TWF from lvl 1...

Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem) 1/Scout 4/Ranger X

If you're starting higher than lvl 1...

Scout 1/Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem) 1/Scout 3/Ranger X

Take a couple of flaws, cause you're gonna be feat-starved no matter what you do. Take Swift Hunter as your lvl 6 feat. Find a way to have a good fly speed (such as being a raptoran, or having a helpful wizard friend, or being a dragonborn with wings), and you can charge things to death without worrying too much over terrain. You won't win any ubercharger awards, but you should do fine.

[weckar]

I want to be able to hit multiple times to apply skirmish damage multiple times.E-Glaive still allows that, but against (usually) a much more favorable AC. Keeping a physical weapon on hand to deal with SR-laden enemies is recommended, though.

[Darrin]

The simplest piece of advice you can give me, is what to do at level 3.


The simplest answer is "Travel Devotion" (Complete Champion), but the not-so-simple version is going to be a little more involved.



I want to qualify for improved skirmish at level 6, which means Scout1/Warblade1/Scout+4 or Scout1/Warblade1/Ranger1/Scout+3 with swift hunter (Swift Hunter is also my go-to fix if this turns out to be an undead campaign).


The only way to get all that by level 6 is Scout 1/Warblade 1/Ranger 1/Scout +3. You need Favored Enemy to qualify for Swift Hunter. If you take Scout 4 just as you get level 6, then you can pick up Swift Hunter as your level 6 feat and Improved Skirmish as your scout bonus feat.

However, I'm puzzled why you've taken TWF at 1st level. This means when you take Ranger 2 and get TWF as your combat style, you'll be getting a feat you already have. If it's not too late, then I'd consider asking the DM if you can repick your 1st level feats. I'd also wait on Warblade... Sudden Leap is indeed a great maneuver, but it's not vital to the build. I'd also reconsider Leap of the Heavens. Swift Hunter builds are *really* tight on feats, so you're probably not going to have room for that until later. My advice:

Race: Human.
1) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Human: Combat Reflexes. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: TWF.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Warblade 1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3)
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4. Favored Enemy: Constructs.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Improved TWF.
12) Ranger 7. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Skirmish 3d6AC+3/5d6AC+5.
13) Ranger 8.
14) Ranger 9. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5
15) Ranger 10. Feat: {Open}. Favored Enemy: Elementals.
16) Ranger 11. Bonus: Greater TWF. Skirmish 4d6AC+4/6d6AC+6
17) Ranger 12.
18) Ranger 13. Feat: {Open}. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6

Leap of the Heavens could go in there at level 9, bumping Travel Devotion (x3) up to level 15. But I'd probably just skip it altogether and just deal with the higher DCs, unless your DM has already decided to punish all your Sudden Leaps for not having running starts. (The text on Sudden Leap is ambiguous, as it doesn't say if you just move the distance you roll, or if you have to pick a distance and calculate the DC of a normal Jump check.)



This at least puts me on par with a pure rogue in terms of extra d6s. Beyond that, I think I should leave Scout for more Warblade or maybe Ranger to progress Skirmish, but then again, it is quite a slow progression beyond Improved Skirmish.


If you want to match the rogue's sneak attack progression, then you can do that by replacing 8 levels of Ranger with 4 levels of Dragon Devotee (Races of the Dragon) and 4 levels of Unseen Seer (Complete Mage). It would look something like this:

Race: Human.
1) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Human: Combat Reflexes. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Undead.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: TWF.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Warblade 1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Bonus: Improved TWF (Champion of the Wild ACF)
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4. Favored Enemy: Constructs.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. Sorcerer 1. Pick two divination spells: true strike, critical strike.
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Greater TWF. Skirmish 6d6AC+3/8d6AC+5
16) Unseen Seer 2. Bonus: Greater TWF.
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: {Open}. Skirmish 7d6AC+4/9d6AC+6
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+4/10d6AC+6

You can even out-damage the rogue by taking Dragonfire Strike at level 15 or 18, which would give you 11d6 skirmish damage. You'd need to be silverbrow human or become a Dragonborn of Bahamut. And I'd recommend Dragonborn anyway, because you can pick up Dragon Tail to get a secondary tail attack.

Ideally, you want to do Dragonborn after you pick up Ranger 3. Then you can drop Endurance instead of your human bonus feat, as per Races of the Dragon page 10: "If your original race granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (such as the one gained by a human at 1st level), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have."

To get Dragon Tail, you have to give up another bonus feat. At the bottom of page 10: "Ordinarily, only a 1st-level character can select certain feats requiring the dragonblood subtype (see Chapter 6). However, upon becoming a Dragonborn, you can elect to replace one (and only one) of your existing feats with one of these feats." You need to keep Track to qualify for Highland Stalker, but you can lose Shield Proficiency, because the PHB (p. 100) says it's one of your bonus feats: "Barbarians, bards, clerics, druids, fighters, paladins, and rangers automatically have Shield Proficiency as a bonus feat."



One level of Barbarian has, of course, crossed my mind. Pounce and whirling frenzy would, indeed, be nice.


It would, but you might not be able to maximize your skirmish damage then. 17 levels of Scout/Ranger = 5d6 skirmish damage. That leaves 3 levels left to do something else. Highland Stalker 2, which adds +1d6 skirmish, leaves only one level left: Warblade 1. If you're ok with ditching Highland Stalker 2 for Barbarian 1 and something else (Cloistered Cleric dip, for example), then I'd recommend taking that somewhere after 6th level, either before or after Warblade 1.



The broader advice is how to compete beyond level 6.


Wand Chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape). Get a wand of instant of power (Forge of War) and blades of fire (Spell Compendium). If your DM will allow it, add a dwarven buckler axe on each arm with wand chambers, along with a wand of impeding stones (Cityscape) and wand of blockade (Complete Scoundrel) for some battlefield control.

Some Ranger ACFs to consider:

Skilled City-Dweller ACF (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)): Trade Ranger's Ride skill for Tumble, because Tumble is awesome.

Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion): Replaces Wild Empathy (i.e., "The animal is angry/hungry") with speak with animals or speak with plants 3/day. Much better to talk to animals/plants directly, as you're much more likely to get more accurate and more useful information.

Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII): The ranger's animal companion doesn't progress quickly enough to stay relevant in combat, and is pretty much a walking bloodsmear waiting to happen, sucking up resources to either keep it out of harm's way or to keep it breathing while in harm's way. If you have another sneak attacker in the party, then Distracting Attack will make them very happy. However, you count as your own ally (as per the PHB glossary), so if you hit with multiple attacks, check with the DM on how to adjudicate that.

Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion): If the rest of your party has no interest in flanking, then this is a pretty decent substitute for your animal companion, not so much for the skill bonuses, but for the commune with nature 1/day, which is an excellent spell to drag Clue-By-Fours out of the DM when the party gets stuck somewhere.

Urban Companion ACF (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)). If you absolutely must have a bloodsm--I mean, a fuzzy sockpupp--I mean, some sort of animal sidekick, then consider this swap to get something similar to a sorcerer's familiar. Although combat survivability is still a concern, you get a lot more utility out of a familiar that has all of your skill ranks, and you get a bunch more of those than a sorcerer. It can also speak, which means it can speak command words and activate spell-trigger items.

[Lokiron]

If you're playing from lvl 1, and want to be TWF from lvl 1...

Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem) 1/Scout 4/Ranger X

If you're starting higher than lvl 1...

Scout 1/Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem) 1/Scout 3/Ranger X

Take a couple of flaws, cause you're gonna be feat-starved no matter what you do. Take Swift Hunter as your lvl 6 feat. Find a way to have a good fly speed (such as being a raptoran, or having a helpful wizard friend, or being a dragonborn with wings), and you can charge things to death without worrying too much over terrain. You won't win any ubercharger awards, but you should do fine.

I might do something like this class progression, but the game has already started and I cannot change the race. I think my group would put raptoran in the gonzo category, anyway. With an agreed upon house rule to the Swift Hunter feat (it stacks scout with whatever class provides the favored enemy), I can go Scout 4/Barbarian X. With all TWF feats rolled into one what other feats would you say I need?

[AvatarVecna]

I might do something like this class progression, but the game has already started and I cannot change the race. I think my group would put raptoran in the gonzo category, anyway. With an agreed upon house rule to the Swift Hunter feat (it stacks scout with whatever class provides the favored enemy), I can go Scout 4/Barbarian X. With all TWF feats rolled into one what other feats would you say I need?

Most of the Swift Hunter builds I make are of the Greater Manyshot variety. The best I can do is link you to both the Swift Hunter Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8722.0) and the Two-Weapon Fighting OffHandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279079-3-5-The-TWF-OffHandbook). Incidentally, the author of the latter handbook is in-thread, so they should be able to provide you with some solid advice in this matter.

[Telonius]

This is very good to know, but ideally I should move 20 ft. to get Improved Skirmish. Still a good option to have. This can also be accomplished with a high DC tumble skill, right? Or is that 3.0?

I believe that's from Oriental Adventures, but I don't have the book on me.

[Lokiron]

The simplest answer is "Travel Devotion" (Complete Champion), but the not-so-simple version is going to be a little more involved.



The only way to get all that by level 6 is Scout 1/Warblade 1/Ranger 1/Scout +3. You need Favored Enemy to qualify for Swift Hunter. If you take Scout 4 just as you get level 6, then you can pick up Swift Hunter as your level 6 feat and Improved Skirmish as your scout bonus feat.

However, I'm puzzled why you've taken TWF at 1st level. This means when you take Ranger 2 and get TWF as your combat style, you'll be getting a feat you already have. If it's not too late, then I'd consider asking the DM if you can repick your 1st level feats. I'd also wait on Warblade... Sudden Leap is indeed a great maneuver, but it's not vital to the build. I'd also reconsider Leap of the Heavens. Swift Hunter builds are *really* tight on feats, so you're probably not going to have room for that until later. My advice:

Race: Human.
1) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Human: Combat Reflexes. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: TWF.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Warblade 1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3)
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4. Favored Enemy: Constructs.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Improved TWF.
12) Ranger 7. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Skirmish 3d6AC+3/5d6AC+5.
13) Ranger 8.
14) Ranger 9. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5
15) Ranger 10. Feat: {Open}. Favored Enemy: Elementals.
16) Ranger 11. Bonus: Greater TWF. Skirmish 4d6AC+4/6d6AC+6
17) Ranger 12.
18) Ranger 13. Feat: {Open}. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6

Leap of the Heavens could go in there at level 9, bumping Travel Devotion (x3) up to level 15. But I'd probably just skip it altogether and just deal with the higher DCs, unless your DM has already decided to punish all your Sudden Leaps for not having running starts. (The text on Sudden Leap is ambiguous, as it doesn't say if you just move the distance you roll, or if you have to pick a distance and calculate the DC of a normal Jump check.)



If you want to match the rogue's sneak attack progression, then you can do that by replacing 8 levels of Ranger with 4 levels of Dragon Devotee (Races of the Dragon) and 4 levels of Unseen Seer (Complete Mage). It would look something like this:

Race: Human.
1) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Human: Combat Reflexes. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Undead.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: TWF.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Warblade 1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Bonus: Improved TWF (Champion of the Wild ACF)
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4. Favored Enemy: Constructs.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. Sorcerer 1. Pick two divination spells: true strike, critical strike.
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Greater TWF. Skirmish 6d6AC+3/8d6AC+5
16) Unseen Seer 2. Bonus: Greater TWF.
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: {Open}. Skirmish 7d6AC+4/9d6AC+6
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+4/10d6AC+6

You can even out-damage the rogue by taking Dragonfire Strike at level 15 or 18, which would give you 11d6 skirmish damage. You'd need to be silverbrow human or become a Dragonborn of Bahamut. And I'd recommend Dragonborn anyway, because you can pick up Dragon Tail to get a secondary tail attack.

Ideally, you want to do Dragonborn after you pick up Ranger 3. Then you can drop Endurance instead of your human bonus feat, as per Races of the Dragon page 10: "If your original race granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (such as the one gained by a human at 1st level), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have."

To get Dragon Tail, you have to give up another bonus feat. At the bottom of page 10: "Ordinarily, only a 1st-level character can select certain feats requiring the dragonblood subtype (see Chapter 6). However, upon becoming a Dragonborn, you can elect to replace one (and only one) of your existing feats with one of these feats." You need to keep Track to qualify for Highland Stalker, but you can lose Shield Proficiency, because the PHB (p. 100) says it's one of your bonus feats: "Barbarians, bards, clerics, druids, fighters, paladins, and rangers automatically have Shield Proficiency as a bonus feat."



It would, but you might not be able to maximize your skirmish damage then. 17 levels of Scout/Ranger = 5d6 skirmish damage. That leaves 3 levels left to do something else. Highland Stalker 2, which adds +1d6 skirmish, leaves only one level left: Warblade 1. If you're ok with ditching Highland Stalker 2 for Barbarian 1 and something else (Cloistered Cleric dip, for example), then I'd recommend taking that somewhere after 6th level, either before or after Warblade 1.



Wand Chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape). Get a wand of instant of power (Forge of War) and blades of fire (Spell Compendium). If your DM will allow it, add a dwarven buckler axe on each arm with wand chambers, along with a wand of impeding stones (Cityscape) and wand of blockade (Complete Scoundrel) for some battlefield control.

.

Wow, that is very comprehensive. Thank you.

About TWF at level 1, it's a combination of stubbornness (I want to do this by first level) and uncertainty that I would get ranger level 2. Also, rapid shot why not, I might want to do stuff at range... I dunno.

Thank you for reminding me that I can just throw more feats at travel devotion. I'll keep that I mind.

In general, there seems to be consensus that my best bet at progressing damage is to keep skirmish maximised. What would it look like if I stopped at +4d6 and went for warblade full attack maneuvers / boosts?

[BowStreetRunner]

Wow, that is very comprehensive. Thank you.

About TWF at level 1, it's a combination of stubbornness (I want to do this by first level) and uncertainty that I would get ranger level 2. Also, rapid shot why not, I might want to do stuff at range... I dunno.

Thank you for reminding me that I can just throw more feats at travel devotion. I'll keep that I mind.

In general, there seems to be consensus that my best bet at progressing damage is to keep skirmish maximised. What would it look like if I stopped at +4d6 and went for warblade full attack maneuvers / boosts?

I've done the scout/warblade thing before. I went with wielding a pair of Keen kukris. Blood in the Water stance was the key, as it allowed me to keep stacking +1 attack and damage every time I scored a crit. On the Iron Heart side I picked up Steel Wind which eventually was replaced with Mithral Tornado and eventually with Adamantine Hurricane. Scything Blade also benefits this style. On the Tiger Claw side I picked up the Wolf Fang Strike which eventually was replaced with Dancing Mongoose then Raging Mongoose. Girralon Windmill Flesh Rip, Pouncing Charge, and Prey on the Weak also work here. I've used these in straight Warblade builds and also in multi-classed builds like you are talking and it can get obscene how much damage you can do if you can get the crit machine going.

[weckar]

Wow, that is very comprehensive. Thank you.

About TWF at level 1, it's a combination of stubbornness (I want to do this by first level) and uncertainty that I would get ranger level 2. Also, rapid shot why not, I might want to do stuff at range... I dunno? I'll give this one for free: On a martial character you need to use those feats to focus. Do a thing and do it well.

[Lokiron]

About TWF at level 1, it's a combination of stubbornness (I want to do this by first level) and uncertainty that I would get ranger level 2. Also, rapid shot why not, I might want to do stuff at range... I dunno.

Actually, now I remember my initial reasoning. With our house rules that ITWF and GTWF come along with TWF for free, I thought I might trade the combat style off for wild shape, or perhaps get a different combat style (from Dragon Magazine #326). That's why I didn't worry about picking TWF at level 1. Our house rule is a nerf to the TWF ranger combat style progression. I suppose the group could find a fix to this, but it's not been brought up yet.

[Darrin]

With our house rules that ITWF and GTWF come along with TWF for free, I thought I might trade the combat style off for wild shape, or perhaps get a different combat style (from Dragon Magazine #326).

That changes things considerably. Wild Shape is better than any of the combat styles, and gets you access to pounce, but unless you stick to ape forms, it might be tricky to take advantage of TWF.

If you had to pick a different combat style... none of them offer what I'd call three solid picks at every level. Maybe ask your DM if you can switch combat styles or open up the selections to the Champion of the Wild ACF in Complete Champion?

Two feats that do stand out, though: Improved Unarmed Strike opens up one of the best TWF weapon combos, which would be greatsword + unarmed strike. Two-handed 2d6 damage on your primary, 1d6 offhand, and both of them can be used with Power Attack.

Power Attack is the second feat that stands out, but you need something else to make it work with both of your weapons, such as Oversized TWF, Agile Shield Fighter, or EWP: Dragonsplits.

I also like to have Quickdraw on melee builds if I can find room for it, so I can pull out alchemical items and "weapon-like objects" (wands, rods, caltrops, etc.) as a free action, which opens up more interesting tactical options if full attack is not looking advisable.

Consider:

Race: Silverbrow Human.
1) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Human: TWF. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Favored Enemy: Undead.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Warblade 1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Combat Reflexes.
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4. Favored Enemy: Constructs.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. Sorcerer 1. Pick two divination spells: true strike, critical strike.
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 6d6AC+3/8d6AC+5
16) Unseen Seer 2.
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Dragonfire Strike. Skirmish 8d6AC+4/10d6AC+6
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 9d6AC+4/11d6AC+6

[ace rooster]

When you can't be a caster, fake it. Have you considered swift ambusher instead? Scout stacks with rogue for skirmish, meaning you get all the d6s. 9d6 at level 10. :smallbiggrin: Because of the wording of vampiric touch, a cl6 wand can grant you 12d6 (~42) temporary hit points for 270gp a pop, which is nice at level 10. A wand of spectral hand is also another great buy, because it allows you to make melee attacks at medium range, and it explicitly says it "counts normally as an attack". DM may veto, but the 30' range on sneak attacks and skirmish only applies to ranged attacks, meaning that it can let you sneak attack and skirmish at up to 130' (300 if enlarged), and while the hand cannot offer a flank, it can benefit from one (DM call again), meaning getting 'ranged' sneak attacks is much easier.

As you go up levels, Rogue will do double duty in terms of getting damage, but will pretty much cap out UMD, so throwing in some other stuff is viable.