Minion Help

[Keral]

It appears I have gained a minion, yay!
Now I have to decide a class for it.

The problem is that's it's level 1 and the party is level 8. She's going to get exp as we get it, but the DM wasn't really clear whether she gains a level every time I do or if she gets the same amount of experience as I (In which case the gap shortens faster).

Also, she's a fairy 2½ feet tall and weighs about 30 pounds. She flies.
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 10
INT 16
WIS 16
CHA 16
+1 point I can assign myself, apparently.
She has a few made up charachteristics, but it has mostly to do with the fact that she kinda behaves like a geenie in a bottle (she resides in an amulet) and so on so I do not think they're much relevant.

So what could it be to make her at least somewhat useful even considering the level gap? I was thinking a bard perhaps? Or some sort of cleric/buffer role. To keep her away from most combats but have her buff us, like something lasting a bit to do before combat starts and be done with it.


Suggestions?

[Calthropstu]

Item crafter might be a superb choice here.
Bard wouldn't be a terrible choice, but I would lean more towards a summoner as a caster. "I'm tiny, but here's something you can play with..." has a good rp spin.
Maybe a scout would be a good idea too.

[Flickerdart]

Bard isn't a bad idea, given how front-loaded inspire courage is.

[Keral]

Uh, I hadn't thought about item crafter. But she's already way behind in levels and she'd need to pay exp to craft meaning she'll stay behind more. That would make her useless in combat. Unless it's possibile to devise something buffy (let me pass the term) whilst keeping crafting as her main aim?


Summoner might be good. I'm not personally a big fun of the concept but I agree it might be a funny spin for rp purposes. She technically could even get a familiar if we go for the arcane caster. And it might be something way bigger than her XD I wonder what she could get with improved familiar. Tho it would mean an awful lot of things to move if we go for the summoner bit.

The point is tho, would her summons be still somewhat useful even with the levle gap? She should catch up a bit at least, by the time I get to level 9 she'll be 5 so it's not that bad...

[Calthropstu]

Never underestimate the power of an ultra expendable 1 round flanker.

[J-H]

Warlock makes touch attacks, at range, and keys off of dex and cha. The Tiny size will give her bonuses on her to-hit for those touch attacks. She can deliver some minor debuffs (Will DC 14 on-hit or shaken, etc) as well as providing a few at-will utility options (Shatter on enemy non-magical weapons, etc).

[Keral]

I don't think I'd like to play a warlock :(

[Deadline]

I'll echo what others have said and suggest a caster of some sort. If you want a crafter, Artificer is decent, but she won't be making much of anything useful until she gets some levels. In point of fact, she'll be pretty useless regardless of class until she gets some levels (Bard is the only exception here, as that's at least a little useful no matter what level).


The point is tho, would her summons be still somewhat useful even with the levle gap? She should catch up a bit at least, by the time I get to level 9 she'll be 5 so it's not that bad...

No, her summons won't be relevant with her reduced level, and will probably be wildly underwhelming all through the campaign if she lags several levels behind. If you want her to provide flanking buddies (as Calthropstu suggests), you'd best make sure there is a rogue in your party (and invest in the Summon Elemental Reserve feat as soon as you can after she hits 7th level). If not, I'd skip summoning entirely on her, as the summons aren't likely to matter much at all, and "party buffer" is much better done with Bard (IC optimized Bard with the Lingering Song feat could mean she sings the first round, and then pops back into the safety of her amulet while the IC effects last 10 rounds). Wizard is another decent option, with plenty of buff spells available, and tons of utility out of combat. I'd probably steer clear of using her as a combatant, and focus on either long-term buff spells or out of combat utility.

[Darrin]

I don't think I'd like to play a warlock :(

How about Dragonfire Adept, then? Aside from the novelty of a fire-breathing fairy (add Entangling Exhalation for a reliable debuff), you can give her the Magic Insight invocation for free at-will identify.

[Calthropstu]

I'll echo what others have said and suggest a caster of some sort. If you want a crafter, Artificer is decent, but she won't be making much of anything useful until she gets some levels. In point of fact, she'll be pretty useless regardless of class until she gets some levels (Bard is the only exception here, as that's at least a little useful no matter what level).



No, her summons won't be relevant with her reduced level, and will probably be wildly underwhelming all through the campaign if she lags several levels behind. If you want her to provide flanking buddies (as Calthropstu suggests), you'd best make sure there is a rogue in your party (and invest in the Summon Elemental Reserve feat as soon as you can after she hits 7th level). If not, I'd skip summoning entirely on her, as the summons aren't likely to matter much at all, and "party buffer" is much better done with Bard (IC optimized Bard with the Lingering Song feat could mean she sings the first round, and then pops back into the safety of her amulet while the IC effects last 10 rounds). Wizard is another decent option, with plenty of buff spells available, and tons of utility out of combat. I'd probably steer clear of using her as a combatant, and focus on either long-term buff spells or out of combat utility.

First level, summon monster 1 vs bardic music of +1 to hit. The summons appears in flanking pisition, providing 1 (or 2 depending on monster placement, I have seen 1 well placed summon provide 4 people with flank) member a +2 to hit, gets 3 attacks at 1d4-1 with a +7 to hit with flanking.
Bardic music grants +1 hit and damage to everyone.
Music is clear winner here.
Lvl 5 is different. Bison, for example, is large and can take and deal some serious punishment. It can, well placed, provide serious combat advantages. Flanking is just the start.

Summoning is, properly used, far more about battlefield control. A weak lvl 3 or 4 can use summon 2 spam to put in 1d3 summon 1, and make the entire battlefield impossible to navigate.

I am very good with tactical management and if I had a summoner minion, I'd use her to great effect even at lvl 1.

[Deadline]

Lvl 5 is different. Bison, for example, is large and can take and deal some serious punishment. It can, well placed, provide serious combat advantages. Flanking is just the start.

The problem is, we don't know what encounter CR the party will be facing by the time this minion is level 5. If they are still level 8 when she hits 5th level, sure, summoning might be marginally more relevant (although I'd argue that there are probably half a dozen things the minion could do at 5th level that would be far more useful than summoning up some weak creatures). If the level disparity remains where it's at, we're back at the same problem as I mentioned above.


Summoning is, properly used, far more about battlefield control. A weak lvl 3 or 4 can use summon 2 spam to put in 1d3 summon 1, and make the entire battlefield impossible to navigate.

Only if said battlefield is incredibly restricted in size (to the point where you can effectively block passage with summoned bodies, a problem which at best buys you a round). Weak summons can otherwise be safely ignored (even provoking AoO's from them to move around them is pretty safe). And let's be clear here, we aren't talking about a powerful, fully fledged member of the party (which I agree can be a potent tool and is where summoning is more beneficial), we're talking about a weaker minion throwing out even more weak summons.

There are plenty of other concerns with the summoning route (easy to interrupt the casting, slowing down combat with mobs of pointless summons, etc.), but I think the one I outlined above is probably the biggest hurdle in this case.

It's almost certainly best (and easiest) to have said minion either drop long term buffs before a fight and have her hide in her amulet, or have her drop IC or Haste on the party round 1 and then hide in the amulet, as far as combat options go.

[Keral]

The DFA idea was nice. I would really love a fire breathing fairy. The "problem" is that's my class so it'd feel a bit meh.

On the other hand, I was skimming through manuals and since I'm dragon themed I went back there and found the hand of the winged master. I'ts a prestige class in dragon magic and it looked cool. It would also fit quite well with the role playing part of it. It would probably be better with a ranger, I think. But I'd need sneak attack/skirmish or sudden strike so I could make it work with a scout and hit with a bow? The damage wouldn't be that bad, and being tiny she gets a nice ranged bonus to hit.

Tho the summonig reserve feat idea isn't bad.


I haven't ruled out bard tho. I'll have to check that bit about the lasting music, seemed promising.

Edit: right, I hadn't considered that being weaker summons that what we'll face getting aoo may be a nonissue for the enemy. They may even not be able to hit. And the fact that it would slow down combat is true. (The druid in our party is especially slow so combat already takes ages sometimes)

[Deadline]

On the other hand, I was skimming through manuals and since I'm dragon themed I went back there and found the hand of the winged master. I'ts a prestige class in dragon magic and it looked cool. It would also fit quite well with the role playing part of it. It would probably be better with a ranger, I think. But I'd need sneak attack/skirmish or sudden strike so I could make it work with a scout and hit with a bow? The damage wouldn't be that bad, and being tiny she gets a nice ranged bonus to hit.

You may want to check out the top 3 builds in the Iron Chef round that used Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257723-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XXXVIII&highlight=Iron+Chef+Optimization+Challenge+in+the+ Playground+XXXVIII). Might be some ideas you can steal. Take a special look at Dokar, I think it used Ranger and Scout as a base.

I should add that I think any attempt you make to use this minion as an actual melee or ranged combatant is probably going to result in her quick and entirely predictable death. But maybe you'll be lucky. :smalltongue:

[Keral]

Thanks!

I gave a quick look to Dokar so far, but I'm not sure I'll get much from that. It seems to spend quite a bit in order to get wings and tail. The former I have and the latter I'm not gonna take. While I may be crazy enough to make her a ranged fighter, I'm not so mad as to make her melee.


I think I'm gonna try to build something decent out of it and see how it looks. If she dies she just pops out of the amulet and loses a level, apparently, so if that happens I still can go the bard route. No matter how many levels she's behind that should still be good.
Plus getting extra ac from skirmish, being tiny, a nice armor and a decent hit die she might actually survive. Unless we meet casters. In which case I can just let her in the amulet.

[Khedrac]

If you don't like Bard take a look at Marshal.
Give her a bow so she has something to do and enjoy the passive boosts.
Make Motivate Dexterity the first minor aura (as it boosts initiative checks by her charisma modifier) and enjoy the boosts.

[Calthropstu]

The DFA idea was nice. I would really love a fire breathing fairy. The "problem" is that's my class so it'd feel a bit meh.

On the other hand, I was skimming through manuals and since I'm dragon themed I went back there and found the hand of the winged master. I'ts a prestige class in dragon magic and it looked cool. It would also fit quite well with the role playing part of it. It would probably be better with a ranger, I think. But I'd need sneak attack/skirmish or sudden strike so I could make it work with a scout and hit with a bow? The damage wouldn't be that bad, and being tiny she gets a nice ranged bonus to hit.

Tho the summonig reserve feat idea isn't bad.


I haven't ruled out bard tho. I'll have to check that bit about the lasting music, seemed promising.

Edit: right, I hadn't considered that being weaker summons that what we'll face getting aoo may be a nonissue for the enemy. They may even not be able to hit. And the fact that it would slow down combat is true. (The druid in our party is especially slow so combat already takes ages sometimes)

If you already have a druid spamming summons, bard is DEFINITELY the way to go, as the bonus will apply to the summons as well, exponentially increasing her effectiveness.

[eggynack]

My general solution for the extremely low level relative to the party problem is a wizard. You have them go conjurer, so they can take abrupt jaunt, which gives a capacity to escape danger that transcends level to some extent. It's perhaps the option least likely to die as a result. And, on the party benefit side, the wizard has a ton of low level spells that never get old. Even a mid-level party like yours will benefit from a silent image, identify, enlarge person, unseen servant, comprehend languages, grease, prestidigitation, and so on. These are effects that don't benefit that much from a high level, and which have effects that you'll pretty much always want. Even if you have a wizard already, they probably have better things to do with their time than enlarging the party fighter. Your friendly minion has no such problem.