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Foxydono
2016-08-31, 06:46 PM
Creating a Tiefling (plane-touched) – 5e edition (homebrew)

Of all the plane-touched, none precipitate as much fascination – or as much fear – as Tieflings. Obviously human and “something else” in the Tieflings case is assumed to be lower-planar. Whereas Aasimar are obviously touched by a celestial spark. Tieflings are enshrouded with the mysteries of an unnamed heritage.

Personality: An infernal stigma follows all Tieflings through their lives. Loners by nature, they make their own paths out of necessity; no Tiefling culture exists to aid the outcast, for no two Tieflings are alike. As distinctive from humans as they are from each other. Tieflings take care of themselves, for they learn that no one else will take care of them. But rather than withdraw into individual hermitages, Tieflings challenge the multiverse with everything in their independent spirits. Determined to create their own fates, they dare things that others might not even dream of and defy anything that stands in their way.

Physical description: No two Tieflings look the same. Beyond an aura that many find disturbing, many Tieflings are indistinguishable from humans. A fair number of them look like planar half-elves. Generally, Tieflings range from 4’10” to 5’9“ for males and from 4’9” to 5’6” for females.

Tiefling lands: Tieflings have no land of their own, and live among other races.

Relations: Tieflings are distrusted and feared by humans, Aasimar, elves and most Prime Material races. They respond with bitterness and self-reliance.

Alignment: Tieflings tend to be selfish, uncaring and cruel. Although this is just as much due to their harsh upbringing as to their heritage. A few defy their nature, but they still must fight against popular opinion and the feeling of otherworldly “wrongness” that seems to follow them wherever they go. In general Tieflings tend to be most chaotic and neutral. It is the rare individual who takes the lawful path to any degree.

Religion: Tieflings who find a faith more often than not follower their inherent traits and heed the call to chaos or evil. Few Tieflings belong to any faith that is either lawful or good, but exceptional individuals might unexpectedly follow a more stringent moral code.

Language: Tieflings speak common and some learn the language of the lower plane depending on their heritage. Demons (abyssal), Devils (infernal) or Yugoloth (daemonic).

Names: Tieflings take names common to the community in which they were born.

Adventurers: In most societies, Tieflings maintain a low profile, and take up adventuring careers as thieves, assassins, spies, and agents-for-hire. In cities of a lower-planar nature a Tiefling character might rise to a position of power, but in other places when his nature is revealed he quickly becomes an outcast. Such a character might be forced to undertake perilous ventures to make a place for himself.

Traits: medium-sized, base speed 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet.

Advice: the PC must choose what class he or she is going to play first and distribute his or her ability score points, before rolling the Tieflings heritage, abilities and flaws. Otherwise the Tiefling could become too powerful compared to other races.

Making a Tiefling in six easy steps!
1. Choose class: choose whatever class you like.
2. Roll a type: roll a creature type. There are three kinds: demons, devils and yugoloths.
3. Roll your heritage: roll the creature of your heritage. Each of the three different types have twelve creatures. Those can be divided into minor, normal and major creatures.
- minor: a tiefling with a minor heritage looks human and they don't have a flaw. They do get one minor ability and one minor feature.
- normal: a tiefling with a normal heritage doesn't look human, but he or she may pass as a elf or half-elf for example. If they creature doesn't have 'minor' or 'major' behind it's name, it is considered a 'normal' creature. A normal creature gets a normal ability and they also get a flaw. Furthermore, they get two minor features.
- major: a tiefling with a major heritage doesn't look human and you can definitely see or sense his or her lower-planar origin. They get a minor and a normal ability and they also get two flaws. Furthermore, they get two minor features and one major feature.
4. Roll an ability: what kind of ability you need to roll depends on whether you are of a minor, normal or major heritage.
5. Roll a flaw: minor and normal types roll one flaw and a major type gets two flaws.
6. Roll a demonic feature: what kind of feature(s) you need to roll will depend on whether you are of a minor, normal or major heritage.


Type: Roll a 1d3
1. Demon
2. Devil
3. Yugoloth


Tiefling heritage: Roll a 1d12 depending on what lower-planar type you are.

*Look on the internet for cool pictures of the type of creature you are. I can't post them due to copyright issues*

Demon
1. Balor (major): fire resistance, +2 str, +2 to a stat of your choice, savage attacker feat
2. Barlgura: +3 str (max 20), advantage athletics checks, +1 skill prof
3. Chasme: +2 dex, +2 wis or +2 int, telepathy
4. Dretch (minor): +1 str, +2 con, advantage on grapple checks
5. Glabrezu +2 str, +1 con, +1 wis, +1 skill prof
6. Hezrou: +2 str, +2 con or cha, advantage on jump checks, +1 skill prof
7. Manes: +3 con or +3 wis (max 20), immune to poison and disease, +1 skill prof
8. Marilith: +1 cha, +1 dex, dual wielder feat, +2 skill prof
9. Nalfeshnee: +2 str, +2 con or wis, advantage on grapple and strength checks
10. Quasit (minor): +2 dex, +1 of your choice, +1 skill prof
11. Shadow Demon: +3 int or +3 cha or +3 dex (20 max), cast darkness self 3x/d, sunlight sensitivity (as a Drow), devils sight 60 feet
12. Succubus: +2 cha, +2 to another stat, immune to charm or sleep spells

Devil
1. Abishai: +2 dex, +2 to another stat, +1 skill prof
2. Barbed Devil: +1 str, +1 dex, +1 of your choice, +1 AC, +1 skill prof
3. Bearded Devil: +2 str or cha or wis, grappler feat, +1 skill prof
4. Bone Devil: +2 wis, +2 another stat of your choice, immune to poison and disease
5. Chain Devil: +2 dex, +2 con or+2 cha or +2 int, prof spiked chain: 1d8 dmg 5lbs reach, finesse
6. Erinyes: +2 cha, +2 to another stat, immune to charm and sleep spells
7. Horned Devil: +1 str, +1 con, +1 dex, +1 to a stat of your choice, +1 skill prof
8. Ice Devil: +1 con, +1 wis, +2 to another stat of your choice, resistant to cold damage
9. Imp (minor): +2 dex or +2 int, +1 to another stat, +1 skill prof
10. Lemure (minor): +3 con (max 20), +1 hp per lvl, +1 skill prof
11. Pit Fiend (major): +2 dex, +2 to another stat, fire resistance, mobile feat
12. Spined Devil: +2 dex or +2 int, +1 initiative, +1 AC, +1 skill prof

Yugoloth
1. Arcanaloth: +2 dex, +2 cha, advantage to sleight of hand and dexterity checks
2. Baernaloth (major): +3 int or +3 cha or +3 wis, max 20, spell sniper feat, adv saving throws v spells
3. Canoloth: +1 dex, +1 con, alert feat, advantage on perception checks
4. Corruptor of Fate: +2 to a stat of your choice, lucky feat
5. Dergoloth (minor): +1 to two different stats of your choice, +4 to initiative, +1 skill
6. Gacholoth: +3 dex or wis (max 20), advantage climbing checks, bonus athletics prof
7. Hydroloth: +2 str, +2 con or wis, advantage on jump checks
8. Marraenoloth: +2 int, +2 wis or +2 cha, linguist feat (without ability score improvement)
9. Mezzoloth (minor): +1 int, +2 a stat of your choice, immune to poison
10. Nycaloth: +1 str, +2 con or +2 cha and +1 to another stat, telepathy
11. Piscoloth: +2 dex, +1 wis, tremmorsense 30 feet, +1 skill prof
12. Ultroloth: +2 int or cha, +2 to another stat, advantage on arcana and investigation

** If you roll an ability, flaw or attribute that doesn't make sense or contradicts another ability, flaw or attribute: reroll **

Roll an ability: The type of abilities you get depend on whether you have a minor, normal or major heritage. Check "Making a Tiefling in six easy steps!" for which abilities you get.

Tiefling abilities chart (minor): a tiefling with a minor heritage looks human and he or she has no flaw. They do need to roll for one minor demonic feature. If the heritage of the creature rolled already has a similar ability: reroll. You can only have one of the abilities below.
1. Darkvision 120 feet.
2. Tiefling luck (minor): once per day get advantage on any roll. You must use the ability before rolling.
3. Perfect liar (minor): gain advantage on truth detection and sense motive checks.
4. Resistance (minor): gain advantage on a certain element check (fire/water/lightning etc). Choose an ability that fits your heritage.
5. Natural AC (minor): gain +1 on AC. This stacks with other abilities like mage armor and unarmored defense.
6. Naturally fit (minor): gain advantage on poison and disease saving throws.
7. Shady nature: immune to alignment detection.
8. Naturally handy (minor): chose a skill: you are proficient with that skill.
9. Advantage main stat: you are proficient with saving throws in the main stat of heritage. If you’re already proficient in that stat, reroll. If the creature has no main stat, you roll between the 2 or 3 stats at random.
10. Brave: you get advantage on fear checks.

Tiefling abilities chart (normal): a tiefling with a normal heritage doesn’t look human, but he or she may pass as a creature not belonging to the lower planes (for example an elf or half-elf). If trying to pass for human with a performance or deception check you have disadvantage. This is negated with the actor feat. NPC’s may react negatively towards you depending on your demonic feature. Also roll for a flaw. The tiefling must roll two minor demonic features. If the heritage of the creature rolled already has a similar ability: reroll.
1. Lower planar luck: your get a luck point as per the feat ‘lucky’ at 1st level. At 10th level you get an extra luck point. This luck points stack with the lucky feat.
2. Blindsight: in addition to darkvision you het blindsight 20 feet.
3. Thick skin: you gain +2 on AC. This stacks with other abilities like mage armor and unarmored defense.
4. Natural caster: once per day you can cast alter self or charm person as being a wizard of your current class level. The casting ability is with either charisma, intelligence or wisdom, depending on the creature of your heritage (the ability that gets the most bonus out of these three). If they get equal roll between the two and if none of those three get a bonus, roll one of the above at random.
5. Streetfighter: you can use your attack option to claw and bit your opponent, doing 1d4 claw damage and 1d3 bite damage. These attacks count as magical weapons for the purpose of hitting creatures and they also count as finesse weapons, so you may choose to use strength or dexterity when rolling for attack and damage. The tiefling must cover his or her hands and not show his or her teeth to much if the tiefling wants to pass as a human like creature like an elf or half-elf.
6. Fearless: you are immune to being feared.
7. Fit as ****: you are immune to poison and disease.
8. Perfect liar: you are immune to truth detection and sense motive checks.
9. Planar resistance: you are immune to a certain element depending on your heritage.
10. Handyman: chose two skills: you are proficient with those skills of your choice.


Roll a flaw: The type of flaws you get depend on whether you have a minor, normal or major heritage. Check "Making a Tiefling in six easy steps!" for which flaws you get.

Flaws:
1. Pathetic: you are weaker in one attribute than you should be. Reduce one of your ability scores with -2 (roll randomly).
2. Helpless: you get disadvantage in a saving throw. Roll randomly which saving throw gets disadvantages. If you already have advantage in this particular saving throw it negates.
3. Reckless: you are not good at defending yourself and get a -1 penalty to AC.
4. Rotting odor: creatures with smell have advantage on spotting you with perception and the foul stench makes it that people stay away from you.
5. Whither plants: a tieflings touch withers plants. This often angers druids and other nature loving creatures.
6. Nonreactive: you are slow to react to danger and suffer a -6 to initiative rolls.
7. Elemental vulnerability: the tiefling suffers double damage to the opposite type of elemental the creature of their heritage is used to.
8. Slow: you move exceptionally slow. Your moving speed is halved, rounded up to the nearest 5 foot interval.
9. Fiendish aura: the tiefling’s presence provokes the hostility of animals.
10. Inattentive: you get a -4 to your (passive) perception.
11. Non-combatant: you are relatively inapt at melee combat and suffer a -2 on all melee attack rolls.
12. Shaky: you are relatively poor at ranged combat and suffer a -2 penalty on all ranged attack rolls.


Roll a demonic feature: The type of demonic features you get depend on whether you have a minor, normal or major heritage. Check "Making a Tiefling in six easy steps!" for which demonic features you get.

Demonic features (minor): reroll if the second feature makes no sense. You can improvise though: for example you could have two different eyes, or you can have your legs grey and scaly, while your upper body is black or red. You can check your heritage to see what color makes most sense.
1. Eyes: the iris are unusual of color, like red, purple, gold etc. (a), the eyes are unusual of type, like a gecko, cat or goat-like (b), or the tiefling eyes are a single color and have no apparent iris or pupil (c).
2. Head/facial features: extremely pointed teeth (a), pointed ears like faerie or elf (b), vampire like fangs (c), strange fanlike ears (d), forked tongue (e), long pointed nose (f), very long thin face (g), or a canine muzzle-like face, superficially resembling an Arcanaloth (h).
3. Hair: blood-red hair (a), no hair (b), strange color hair players choice (c), streaked hair with many colors (d).
4. Skin: black drow-like skin (a), unusual skin color, players choice (b), grey and scaly skin (c).
5. Bodily attributes: Three fingers per hand including thumb (a), four fingers including thumb (b), six fingers including thumb (c), unusual colored fingernails (d), spiny ridge on back (e), webbed fingers (f).
6. Reroll.

Demonic features (major):
1. Eyes: the tiefling is one eyed with one big eye on your forehead like a cyclops (a), the tiefling has no eyes but instead uses blindsight 60 feet (b), or the tiefling has a third eye on his or her forehead (c).
2. Wings: you have demonic wings, but cannot fly, unless you have the demon flight power. The type of wings depend on your heritage. For example: they can be bat (a), hawk (b), bat (c) or bird (d) like. You can choose one depending on your heritage or roll.
3. Horn: the tiefling has a horn on his or her forehead. You can choose one depending on your heritage or roll at random. Examples are: spiral horn (a), small up-turning bovine horns on temples (b), ram-like horns (c), goat horns (d) or a single unicorn like horn (e). As an action the tiefling can use a head butt attack for 1d3 damage based on a strength attack. This cannot be combined with other attacks.
4. Tail: the tiefling has a tail depending on his or her heritage or you can roll for a tale at random. Examples are: whip like tail (a), whip like with a small cartilaginous fluke on the end (b), whip like tail with a non-functional sting on the end (c), tail of a horse (d), or a lizard like tail that can regenerate if cut off within 1d4 days (e). If the tail is cut off, the tiefling suffers disadvantage on all dexterity checks or abilities that use dexterity. The disadvantage stays even if the creature had advantage before it was cut off. If the tiefling doesn’t have a tail he or she may pass as a normal humanoid conform the rules of the ‘normal’ tiefling.
5. Body attributes: roll at random: spiny ridges along many prominent areas of the body (a), lower body resembles a goat (b), feathers instead of hair (c), scales all over the body (d), body is covered with fur (e), patterned skin like zebra or leopard (f) or lion mane (g), or almost no visible nose which gives a disadvantage on trying to smell things (h)
6. Reroll.


*** If you have any advice on how to make "making a Tiefling" better and/or more balanced, please say so! ***

Rerem115
2016-08-31, 07:23 PM
Most of this is either better than the PHB or blatantly overpowered. I'm seeing races with +2 to two stats, stuff with +3 to one stat, a +2 or +1 bonus to AC, proficiency in 4 skills, and that's just in the minor and normal categories. As for the major, stuff like +3 AC and immunity to non-magical damage just should not exist. That's a gorram artifact, not a racial passive. How do you design a level 3 encounter when the fighter is immune to everything but magic?

Foxydono
2016-09-01, 04:36 AM
Hi Rerem, thanks for your feedback! Firstly, let me agree with you that the major heritage is a lot more powerful than the races in the PhB. I tried to make it so they have a big disadvantage as well, but you are probably right by saying I made them too good.

Secondly, you state that almost all other heritages, the minor and normal ones, are better than those in those listed in the PbH. Leaving aside the ability and flaw, I will comment on that later, I don't feel as they are really overpowered compared to the races in the PhB. Let me clarify this:

Human (variant) +2 to two ability scores, extra feat, +1 skill
Half-elf: +2 cha, +2 to two other ability scores,+2 skill, darkvision, fey ancestry

I don't really want to compare all the 33 different non-major heritages here, but some have +2 and +2 with maybe 1 extra skill or an advantage of some sort. A few others have +3 (but mostly on con which isn't your main stat), and a bonus like a skill or immunity to poison and disease like a dwarf. Then there are a few creatures that have +1/+1/+1/+1, more like a normal human, and instead of +1 to all they get a free skill. So I do not see how that is more powerful than a human variant or an helf-elf.

Then they also get a minor or normal ability and a flaw. Although the minor races don't get a flaw, but they are made a bit less powerful then the races in the PhB to compensate for that. If you look at the minor and the normal abilities, they are good, but not game breaking. If you combine this with the above mentioned stats and bonuses the creature of your heritage gives, I will agree that it can be a bit more powerful than a human or a half-elf, but only slightly in my opinion. Maybe they get +2 AC, are immune to poison and disease, have blindsight or are proficient in two more skills. This is good for sure, but they also get a disadvantage for this. If I pick one of the more powerful disadvantages: iron vulnerability. This can be a huge problem and outweighs the advantage given.

Thirdly, I would like to point out that even if you roll a heritage and an ability + a flaw and you become slightly better (on paper) than a human or a half-elf, there is one really big disadvantage: you must roll after you picked a class. The chances of you rolling the exact stats you need are really small. I'd say 1 out of 6 or so. Although you want strength you might end up with charisma or intelligence. So if you are min-maxing I still think choosing a human or a half-elf is better than rolling my homebrew Tiefling. I like min-maxing myself sometimes and I don't think I'd take the gamble if I wanted to create the optimal character.

To conclude, I agree with you that the three major heritages have become a bit too powerful. I will try to make them less powerful, any suggestions on how to do this are welcome. As for the minor and normal heritages: I don't really see how they more powerful than for example the human or a half-elf, especially since you roll the Tiefling after you picked a class.

Rerem115
2016-09-01, 05:09 AM
I gotta quote Grod_The_Giant on this one. "You can't, nor should you, balance bad mechanics by making them difficult to use." Rolling the race after the class doesn't fix the power level; the twinky munchkin is going to fudge the roll to get exactly what they want, the powergamer is going to multiclass to a better class ASAP, or somebody could, just by chance, roll the perfect combination for what they want.

Also, some of the flaws would wind up useless if you actually possessed them; iron vulnerability doesn't do anything if you're immune to non-magical damage. No enemy in the DMG, AFAIK, uses silver weapons or holy water (those are almost exclusively the domain of PCs). Not casting a shadow or reflection is almost unnoticeable; it's a line on a character sheet you write down and forget.

If as a DM you start to bring up these flaws in every RP moment, or throw enemies with silver and holy water at the party in an effort to emphasize these flaws, you're punishing a player for using your homebrewed race, which just sounds dickish to me.

Foxydono
2016-09-01, 06:34 AM
I changed the charts:
- I removed the major abilities and major flaws because they were too powerful.
- I removed some normal flaws that weren't fit for gameplay (like holywater and silver weapons)
- I added some normal flaws to fill up the gaps
- I changed the major heritage type: they now get 2 flaws and 1 normal and 1 minor power. This should balance out quite nicely I think.

Hopefully this makes it a lot more balanced. Let me know what you think :)

PotatoGolem
2016-09-01, 04:12 PM
Is there a particular reason you're attached to RNG character creation? I second the unease with using randomness to balance- it's no use if the player rolls well, and if not, multiclassing is pretty simple.

Also, what is your in-game explanation? In-game, there's a lot of half-orc fighters and gnome wizards not because fighters and wizards choose to be born those races, but because those races have natural talent in those fields and so more of them choose that path. A person born with cha 16 and str 16 becomes a paladin because they're good at it; they don't start as a paladin and then choose their genetics. Why do fiends (especially lawful fiends) choose careers at random, rather than doing what they're good at?

Foxydono
2016-09-02, 12:04 PM
Hey PotatoGolem, I have a two reasons for making the character creation random.

First of all I think it's suits the nature of the Tiefling very well. They are usually chaotic and no two Tieflings aught to be the same. This uniqueness comes from the heritage which varies a lot and so I see it as quite fitting that you roll this randomly. I see your point though that a PC wants to choose a profession based on the skills he or she is good at. I will come back to this later.

Secondly, and this is more a personal point, I think it is very fun to have a bit of randomness in your character creation. It makes it really exciting to see that you get and even if it's sub-optimal you have a very unique character which makes the roll playing very fun. I understand your fear of it being unbalanced and this is precisely the reason why I made this tread.

Giving a creature a certain flaw or ability is always tricky. For example when I first made the tread I introduced major powers which could unbalance the game. Then again if you nerf the Tiefling creation too much, you are always better off picking a race from the PhB. In this case very few players would be tempted to play this class. So it is very hard to find the right balance.

On the one hand you want to give a player character the chance of rolling a good character which in the optimal case is better then the races described in the PhB. On the other hand there is a chance that you roll a sub-optimal Tiefling. You could avoid this problem slightly by giving the Tiefling a fixed ability stat increase, but I decided against this because a certain heritage, like an erinyes or a succubus, should have different stats than a Barlgura or a bone devil.

The in-game creation explanation can be easily fixed. I can't give a general rule, because the reason would obviously differ depending on the character rolled. But a Tiefling can be very random and chaotic and so it wouldn't be strange for them to play whatever they like. Also they can multiclass quite easily in 5e. For example you could have a fighter who rolled a heritage that gives intelligence or charisma. In this case he or she might switch to a warlock or wizard or maybe even a bard depending on their background. This can make the career path of the Tiefling quite fun and unique to play. And multiclassing is not per definition better and can create it's own problems as well. So from a powergaming point of view I'm not worried about it really.

I test rolled the Tiefling quite a bit with all the different classes at least a couple of dozen times and in 75% of the time it is sub-optimal. Meaning that it would have been better (stat and ability-wise) to pick a PhB race. The other 25% of the time the character is slightly better than if I picked a race from the PhB. But never so much that I think it would unbalance the game in any way. If there still are abilities or flaws that could unbalance the character creating I would like to hear it.

Of course it's up to the DM to determine whether the character rolls randomly or you can make it so he or she could choose. Especially choosing some features for the player depending on their heritage may be a nice touch. The problem however with choosing a heritage is that a major heritage is made a bit better than the minor and normal heritages, so if you let the player choose this than this advantages might be unfair to other players.

You could solve this by asking what the player wants to play. If he or she chooses a barbarian, you might show him or her pictures of creatures that give str and or con (and maybe possible dex). The PC then has to choose on the basis of a picture not knowing what stats the heritage gives. Just an idea for if you don't like the randomness.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit, but if you have any further questions feel free to ask!

Rerem115
2016-09-02, 01:18 PM
I've never really been a fan of lolrandom mechanics in the first place. To get an idea of how this could function, let's assume I'm an inappropriate powergamer. I choose Fighter, since a fighter dip benefits just about anybody. (All rolls are made using https://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm)
1d3--1
1d12--6
1d10--9
1d10--2
1d6--5
1d6--1
I'm a fighter with +2 Str, +2 Con, who is immune to Fire damage, has advantage on Jump checks, and gets to pick a skill proficiency. My flaw is that devils don't like me, and my appearance comes with no penalty. That's better than just about anything in the PHB, if only for the Fire immunity. Let's try another:
1d3--1
1d12--2
1d10--3
1d10--1
1d6--6, 1
1d6--2, 6
I'm a fighter with +3 Str, +2 AC, advantage on Str (Athletics) checks, and a skill proficiency. My flaw is that I don't cast a shadow, have body heat, or have a reflection (so, RP). My appearance comes with no penalty. I have a Str modifier of +4, and an AC of 18 (20 with a shield). The problem with your system is that even though it's random, most of the stuff is just so good and a lot of the flaws don't mean much. Even the randomness can be countered by starting a level or 2 in fighter, since you get decent proficiencies, a fighting style, and action surge, which synergizes with nearly any class.

Foxydono
2016-09-02, 02:42 PM
Remem, yes if you roll the exact right stats it is better then a race from the PhB. In your two examples you roll the exact right stats for a fighter and therefore have a slight advantage over other races in the PhB. That's the way it is intended to work. I've rolled over a hundred different Thieflings and as I said in my previous post about 75% are sub-optimal so rolling randomly is a risk and you can get lucky.

As for the flaws you are probably right. Some flaws do need updates. If you have any ideas on how to replace the flaws so that they are more meaningful I'm open to suggestions.

Rerem115
2016-09-02, 02:58 PM
Granted, that's what happened when I got lucky. However, it's still strong even if you don't:

Say you're an Erinyes, with +2 Cha and +2 Con, the Handyman ability and the Noncombatant flaw. You make a pretty terrible fighter, but you're still a tanky skillmonkey. You survive 1st level, then you multiclass to Bard, Warlock, or Sorcerer with heavy armor, the defensive fighting style, immunity to sleep and charm, and +2 to your top stats. Even when you pick something inappropriate for being a fighter, you still wind up ahead in the end.

I know you're enamored with the idea of randomly rolling your class, but the best way I can see to balance this is to eliminate randomly rolling, reduce the benefits, and eliminate the flaws, or make them entirely RP.

Foxydono
2016-09-02, 06:22 PM
I get your point. You can make a fighter to begin with and if you don't get strength and/or constitution from your heritage, you reroll to another class and only take a 1 or 2 level dip for heavy armor and a fighting style. Granted this will work in a lot of cases. This kind of powergaming however, is easily fixed. All you have to do is ask that your PC distributed his or her ability points before rolling. Lets take your Erinyes for example: using the point-buying system you'll end up with stats like 15 str, 14 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 8 cha. Of course you can get something else, but this seems like a decent distribution. You roll the Erinyes and you'll get +17 str, 14 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 10 wis and 10 cha. Not too bad I admit, but far from optimal. Multiclassing into a bard/cleric/druid/sorc/warl/wiz would not be possible due to your stats and if you took a human variant you'd have better stats +free feat + free skill.

And you can roll way worse as a fighter. Lets say you roll a Marraenoloth getting +2 int and +2 wis for example. Or a piscoloth with dex and wis, a Gacholoth with only dex, or even a corrupter of fate. You probably get my point. You could also make it harder by not giving so many creatures "+ to another stat". This way multiclassing will get even harder and you have a real disadvantage when you don't roll the right stats. This used to be the case even, but when I started testing the different Tieflings I rolled randomly, I found out that I rarely got any of the stats I wanted and so I gave some of the creatures "+ to another stat" to make it more playable. In my humble opinion there are lots of ways to make this work, the only problem is finding the right balance.

Rerem115
2016-09-02, 07:09 PM
Alright, you've made your point as to how to stop this from being too strong. However, D&D is still a game; let's take a look at what happens to the fun of playing your character. You decide that you like the idea of playing a Tiefling Warlock, so you roll up a character.

You wind up with a Marilith with the Perfect Liar ability, Sunlight Sensitivity flaw, and no nose (so you can't smell) and black skin. Your starting stats look like 8 15 15 8 10 16, once you factor in racial bonuses, which aren't bad, but unless you have a party of Drow and Svirfneblin, you're going to be making a lot of rolls with disadvantage. How long would you want to play a warlock who had to make every single attack at disadvantage?

To preserve balance and to make your races fun, I feel you should get rid of the random aspect.

Foxydono
2016-09-02, 07:37 PM
That's a good point Rerem. I agree that it is really hard to make a system that is balanced. I therefore really value your input by pointing out the flaws in my system. I gave the thread a little update:

- Changed some of the flaws to make them more balanced and playable.
- Added a section to the advice that the PC needs to distribute his skill points before rolling. This will make it harder to multiclass if you don't like the heritage you rolled.
- I tweaked the features a little.
- Added a section where it basically says to use common sense when rolling an ability, flaw or attribute. If a certain roll doesn't make no sense or contradicts another ability you should reroll.
- Changed ability stat distribution of the different heritage races. Now there is a 50% chance of rolling a stat you need, be it intelligence, wisdom, charisma, strength or dexterity.

* The penalties given by the flaws are about equal to the benefits the abilities give, and with a 50% chance or rolling decent stats I hope making a Tiefling will be more balanced. I'd say there is about 50% chance that the Tiefling doesn't get the stats they want and if you choose your class and distribute your stats beforehand, then you are better off picking a race from the PbH. On the other hand there is a 50% chance of rolling (semi)right stats, which gives you a slight advantage over races from the PbH. Whether you roll a slightly worse or better Tiefling (stat and ability wise) I don't think the disadvantage will be so harsh that it would no longer be fun to play and the advantage won't be so good that it would break the game or be overly unfair to the other players.

** Any suggestions on how to make it even more balanced are welcome! Providing that the creation keeps it's random nature.