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Tough Butter
2016-09-01, 07:58 AM
We've all seen the guides that demand we play the Wood Elf Rogue or the Hlaf-Orc barbarian, but none of my players have really followed that, with interesting results.

(5e) For instance, Our group had a Golaith warlock with negative dexterity but wore plate armour and a war hammer.

We had a paladin who used whips to smite with and then multiclassed into monk.

And a withered old dragon born sorcerer with a 6 in strength.

Have any of you had great, yet u optimized characters like this?

JAL_1138
2016-09-01, 09:58 AM
Gnome barbarian who got really tired of all the short jokes.

Amaril
2016-09-01, 10:28 AM
Half-orc sorcerer whose favorite spell is disintegrate. Bonus points if, in order to cast it, he first has to stand in one place with his fingers to his forehead for several rounds, gathering energy.

Malimar
2016-09-01, 10:52 AM
(3.5) Warforged Fleshwarper. Gradually replace your robot parts with organic meatbag parts. Be Bicentennial Man. But, like Bicentennial Man, becoming not a robot weakens you -- the Fleshwarper capstone changes you from Construct(Living Construct) to Aberration, which makes you lose a bunch of immunities.

Geddy2112
2016-09-01, 12:14 PM
Gnome barbarian who got really tired of all the short jokes.

This is a subtype of really any small race with a strength penalty that plays a melee bruiser. Which is an awesome concept.

Inevitability
2016-09-01, 12:25 PM
(3.5) Warforged Fleshwarper. Gradually replace your robot parts with organic meatbag parts. Be Bicentennial Man. But, like Bicentennial Man, becoming not a robot weakens you -- the Fleshwarper capstone changes you from Construct(Living Construct) to Aberration, which makes you lose a bunch of immunities.

Are you sure it wouldn't change you to Aberration (living construct)? I believe type change does not imply subtype change. Otherwise, an aquatic creature would suddenly lose its ability to breathe water upon gaining the capstone.

Malimar
2016-09-01, 01:29 PM
Are you sure it wouldn't change you to Aberration (living construct)? I believe type change does not imply subtype change. Otherwise, an aquatic creature would suddenly lose its ability to breathe water upon gaining the capstone.

It depends on whether it's possible to have the (living construct) subtype without having the Construct type, and, if so, whether (living construct) grants any good immunities on its own or just modifies the Construct immunities.

JAL_1138
2016-09-01, 04:10 PM
This is a subtype of really any small race with a strength penalty that plays a melee bruiser. Which is an awesome concept.

On a tangent, 5e has made "Halfling Fighter" a kind-of optimized concept. They get to reroll nat 1s on d20 rolls, can move through occupied spaces of any creature larger than them, and Stouts get a +1 to Con. Battlemaster subclass with Precision Attack maneuver, Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert feats at levels 4 and 8, Archery fighting style, and you're in the top tier of ranged DPR (and thanks to Xbow expert, can fire at melee range without penalty). They're pretty good at sword-and-board with a rapier, too--so Small melee fighter works quite well with them.

DrStubbsberg
2016-09-01, 04:52 PM
I ran an Ogre Rogue once in a savage-races campaign. Couldn't sneak for the life of me but boy did her Sneak Attack leave a mark - built her as a heavy skirmisher as her racial physique lent itself to being in the fray.

Ninjaxenomorph
2016-09-01, 05:29 PM
Half-orc sorcerer whose favorite spell is disintegrate. Bonus points if, in order to cast it, he first has to stand in one place with his fingers to his forehead for several rounds, gathering energy.

Hey, in Pathfinder, that can be a pretty great combo. More to the point of this topic, barbarian elves. It's hard to hate the mental image of a savage elf, but hard to like the stats.

JAL_1138
2016-09-01, 08:54 PM
Hey, in Pathfinder, that can be a pretty great combo. More to the point of this topic, barbarian elves. It's hard to hate the mental image of a savage elf, but hard to like the stats.

[EDIT: In 5e, elves get] +2 Dex, wood elves get +1 Wis (more useful than CHA) and an extra 5ft of movement to add to the Barb's class feature speed increase. 5e barbs have a really good use for Dex in Unarmored Defense, Initiative, and saves (advantage to both saves and intiative, eventually)--they're a bit MAD between Str, Dex, and Con. Also may have some use for Stealth, in wolf totem. And you can't be put to sleep, and have advantage to save vs charm. Not getting a racial Str bonus hurts your attack and damage rolls for the early game unless you straight-up go Dex barb (which is doable, but loses most of your Rage benefits), but you can even it out eventually.

If using standard array or point buy, stick the 15 in Str, 13 in Con, 14 in Dex, and at lvl 4, split your ASI into +1 Str and +1 Con. 16 14 16 10 13 8 at level 4, and from there, sink your remaining ASIs into Str.. The odd WIS is annoying, but you're always going to have an odd stat with standard array as an elf barb. Better to point-buy your Int down to 8 and stick a 13 in Wis, to give you 16 14 16 8 14 8 at level 4. Them's not bad stats at 4th. Your Unarmored Defense AC is 15, 17 with a shield, which ain't shabby, and you can actually hit half-decent with a non-thrown ranged weapon if you need to.

illyahr
2016-09-01, 09:06 PM
In 3.5 and Pathfinder there is always the Thogatogue. This is a half-orc barbarian who thinks he is a wizard. He studies his spellbook (really a book full of pictures of martial techniques and naked women) every morning and has a list of "spells" that he can cast. Walks around with a quarterstaff dressed in a handmade robe with "arcane sigils" hand-sewn into it. He even takes allocates feats and skill points as a wizard, so max ranks in Spellcraft.

Don't suggest that he isn't a wizard. He gets upset.

Fri
2016-09-01, 09:59 PM
In 3.5 and Pathfinder there is always the Thogatogue. This is a half-orc barbarian who thinks he is a wizard. He studies his spellbook (really a book full of pictures of martial techniques and naked women) every morning and has a list of "spells" that he can cast. Walks around with a quarterstaff dressed in a handmade robe with "arcane sigils" hand-sewn into it. He even takes allocates feats and skill points as a wizard, so max ranks in Spellcraft.

Don't suggest that he isn't a wizard. He gets upset.

So what spells does he use :smallbiggrin:?

ImNotTrevor
2016-09-01, 10:08 PM
So what spells does he use :smallbiggrin:?

He casts Fist.

illyahr
2016-09-01, 10:56 PM
So what spells does he use :smallbiggrin:?

Know Direction - "That way" (Survival check)
Locate Object - "It's over there" Gets there "It moved"
Magic Stone - Proceeds to throw a rock
Bull's Strength - Proceeds to flex arms
Bear's Endurance - Proceeds to flex abs
Shatter - sunder attempt

You get where I'm going. His staff also casts Inflict Moderate Wounds on touch. :smallamused:


He casts Fist.

That's 'daze' thank you very much. :smallbiggrin:

Lord Raziere
2016-09-02, 01:24 AM
Orc Psion: "I'm an Orc! My brain is so strong, IT MOVES OBJECTS! ITS MY BIGGEST MUSCLE! MY WILL ALONE LIFTS THE WORLD! RAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH!"

Nilbog Protean Bloodline Sorcerer: Yes I am chaos incarnate. What did you expect? And yes I have a -2 to Cha, but I got DAMAGE REVERSAL! AHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

Dwarf Bard: I Shall Narrate Our Adventure In My Deep, Awesome Voice As My Performance Skill, As If I'm Narrating A Movie Trailer. Coming Soon To A Campaign Near You

Android Paladin: robot built to be a holy champion and follow the paladin code, and nothing else. Gradually learns to become more well-rounded and more of a full person as he goes along.

Gargoyle Cleric or Oracle: you've spent so long listening to people pray to a god in the temple you were a statue in, you came to life with a spirit of faith devoted to that god and willing to go forth and fight for that faith with all your heart.

JAL_1138
2016-09-02, 05:01 AM
Orc Psion: "I'm an Orc! My brain is so strong, IT MOVES OBJECTS! ITS MY BIGGEST MUSCLE! MY WILL ALONE LIFTS THE WORLD! RAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH!"

Nilbog Protean Bloodline Sorcerer: Yes I am chaos incarnate. What did you expect? And yes I have a -2 to Cha, but I got DAMAGE REVERSAL! AHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

Dwarf Bard: I Shall Narrate Our Adventure In My Deep, Awesome Voice As My Performance Skill, As If I'm Narrating A Movie Trailer. Coming Soon To A Campaign Near You

Android Paladin: robot built to be a holy champion and follow the paladin code, and nothing else. Gradually learns to become more well-rounded and more of a full person as he goes along.

Gargoyle Cleric or Oracle: you've spent so long listening to people pray to a god in the temple you were a statue in, you came to life with a spirit of faith devoted to that god and willing to go forth and fight for that faith with all your heart.

Or, for a dorf dwarf bard, go full Scottish stereotype. Urist McPiper, kilt-wearing bagpiper with an impenetrable Glaswegian accent in Common (although speaking perfectly understandably whenever speaking in dwarven). Melee attacks should primarily be headbutting ("Ach! Tak a faceful o' heid!"). The character would basically be a 5ft tall, long-bearded, drunken Nac Mac Feegle.

GungHo
2016-09-02, 08:03 AM
I ran an Ogre Rogue once in a savage-races campaign. Couldn't sneak for the life of me but boy did her Sneak Attack leave a mark - built her as a heavy skirmisher as her racial physique lent itself to being in the fray.

Not actually bad when you're playing with versions of the rules that only require things like flank or flat footed for sneak attack instead of actually sneaking. Let other party members set people up with daze, stun, and holds and then start dropping the hammer.

Friv
2016-09-02, 04:09 PM
Back in the day, I designed a pretty effective dwarven ranger/horizon walker. He was the gruffest dwarf to ever gruff across the wastes, but he worked decently well.

Pugwampy
2016-09-02, 05:35 PM
I always thought a Goliath DragonBorn barbarian would be awesome . Ouchy on the x2 Dex penalty .

Amaril
2016-09-02, 05:41 PM
Dwarf Bard: I Shall Narrate Our Adventure In My Deep, Awesome Voice As My Performance Skill, As If I'm Narrating A Movie Trailer. Coming Soon To A Campaign Near You


Or, for a dorf dwarf bard, go full Scottish stereotype. Urist McPiper, kilt-wearing bagpiper with an impenetrable Glaswegian accent in Common (although speaking perfectly understandably whenever speaking in dwarven). Melee attacks should primarily be headbutting ("Ach! Tak a faceful o' heid!"). The character would basically be a 5ft tall, long-bearded, drunken Nac Mac Feegle.

You know, I always thought dwarf bards would be cool on lots of levels besides these, and it's a concept that deserves more credit. I mean, think about it: dwarves are usually said to place great importance on tradition, history, and family legacies. Who do you think keeps all those alive, and passes them on? It may be a little more Lawful than bards are usually painted as, but I don't think that's a bad thing (honestly, thinking of a bard like that makes me wonder why bards are forbidden from being Lawful in the first place, since every race has a place for loremasters and keepers of old traditions and histories).

Just listen to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEm0AjTbsac) and tell me you don't see the potential.

JAL_1138
2016-09-02, 07:18 PM
You know, I always thought dwarf bards would be cool on lots of levels besides these, and it's a concept that deserves more credit. I mean, think about it: dwarves are usually said to place great importance on tradition, history, and family legacies. Who do you think keeps all those alive, and passes them on? It may be a little more Lawful than bards are usually painted as, but I don't think that's a bad thing (honestly, thinking of a bard like that makes me wonder why bards are forbidden from being Lawful in the first place, since every race has a place for loremasters and keepers of old traditions and histories).

Just listen to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEm0AjTbsac) and tell me you don't see the potential.

Dwarven Loremaster is a really solid concept. You can sort of imagine things like the Hobbit example or Gregorian Chant echoing through the dark, and the miners and smiths keeping time to chants, the rhythm tapped out by pickaxes and hammers...

Inevitability
2016-09-03, 01:16 AM
You know, I always thought dwarf bards would be cool on lots of levels besides these, and it's a concept that deserves more credit. I mean, think about it: dwarves are usually said to place great importance on tradition, history, and family legacies. Who do you think keeps all those alive, and passes them on? It may be a little more Lawful than bards are usually painted as, but I don't think that's a bad thing (honestly, thinking of a bard like that makes me wonder why bards are forbidden from being Lawful in the first place, since every race has a place for loremasters and keepers of old traditions and histories).

Just listen to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEm0AjTbsac) and tell me you don't see the potential.

Well, most bard PrC's don't prohibit lawful alignments, so the moment you enter one of these you can just turn lawful without losing anything.

Dire Moose
2016-09-03, 02:01 AM
Know Direction - "That way" (Survival check)
Locate Object - "It's over there" Gets there "It moved"
Magic Stone - Proceeds to throw a rock
Bull's Strength - Proceeds to flex arms
Bear's Endurance - Proceeds to flex abs
Shatter - sunder attempt

You get where I'm going. His staff also casts Inflict Moderate Wounds on touch. :smallamused:



That's 'daze' thank you very much. :smallbiggrin:

I remember hearing about that one too. There were also spells called "Disappearing Head" and "Inside-Out Man," and the one I read about had a familiar (a rock).

That character finally died after drinking some kind of explosive potion and jumping into melee. According to him, that was his most powerful spell, "Me Bomb."

Chimera245
2016-09-03, 10:30 AM
This wasn't my character, and he was written up in 2nd Edition, I think, which I know nothing about.

But a gaming buddy of mine once played a grizzled old man with a long beard, who wore a pointed hat, long robes, and carried a quarterstaff.

Who was a Fighter. The robe was glamered armor, and he was Triple-specialized (whatever that means) with his +5/+5 quarterstaff. (I imagine this is like having all the appropriate Weapon Focus/Specialization and 2WF feats in 3.0/3.5/PF) He even had some kind of magic item that let him cast Burning Hands or something, once per day, to keep up his "wizard" vibe. Then he would hit you with the quarterstaff with the force of a jackhammer eight times in the span of six seconds...

Amaril
2016-09-03, 11:12 AM
Dwarven Loremaster is a really solid concept. You can sort of imagine things like the Hobbit example or Gregorian Chant echoing through the dark, and the miners and smiths keeping time to chants, the rhythm tapped out by pickaxes and hammers...

Or, alternatively, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0) :smalltongue:

illyahr
2016-09-03, 11:50 PM
Or, alternatively, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0) :smalltongue:

This is going up there with Tolkien's dwarf songs from The Hobbit. Easily my new favorite dwarf song. :smallbiggrin:

JAL_1138
2016-09-04, 05:36 AM
Or, alternatively, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0) :smalltongue:


This is going up there with Tolkien's dwarf songs from The Hobbit. Easily my new favorite dwarf song. :smallbiggrin:

There's also this fan tribute to the fallen fortress Koganusān, which is called "Boatmurdered" in the common tongue. (https://m.soundcloud.com/simonswerwer/koganusan)

Inevitability
2016-09-04, 05:37 AM
There's also this fan tribute to the fallen fortress Koganusān, which is called "Boatmurdered" in the common tongue. (https://m.soundcloud.com/simonswerwer/koganusan)

All burn...

JAL_1138
2016-09-04, 06:43 AM
All burn...

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:
Hope you like miasma.

Inevitability
2016-09-04, 09:04 AM
:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:
Hope you like miasma.

Also elephants.

JAL_1138
2016-09-04, 09:16 AM
That gives me an idea for another race/class combo. Dwarven Ranger elephant-hunter. Seeking vengeance for the destruction of his home and the deaths of his kinsmen at the tusks of the Grey Menace.

Fri
2016-09-04, 10:44 AM
Well, most bard PrC's don't prohibit lawful alignments, so the moment you enter one of these you can just turn lawful without losing anything.

So it's Young Dwarf Musician who sells out as soon as they got mainstream.

JAL_1138
2016-09-04, 10:52 AM
So it's Young Dwarf Musician who sells out as soon as they got mainstream.

Or started out rebellious and hip, but fell in love with older, historical music. Like if a rising pop-rocker suddenly left the limelight and switched to playing the mandolin in a traditional-folk group that mostly plays at Ren Faires.

BurgerShaman
2016-09-21, 02:58 PM
Dwarf Bard: I Shall Narrate Our Adventure In My Deep, Awesome Voice As My Performance Skill, As If I'm Narrating A Movie Trailer. Coming Soon To A Campaign Near You


Can I sig this crap?
Made me laugh.

Lord Raziere
2016-09-22, 12:47 AM
Can I sig this crap?
Made me laugh.

Sure why not, I don't mind.

lets see, what else:

Orc Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric/Anything with a primary stat in Wis, Cha or Int:
Imagine someone trying to learn how to do magic, but constantly facing not only discrimination from others about how evil you are, but having a known impairment in how well you can learn it as well and thus have to work extra hard just to get the same results, and when you finally hold your own against anyone else and be awesome anyways? despite the challenges? Thats awesome, BECAUSE of the terrible race class combo.
and yet, because of suboptimal stigma, no one ever tries.

Khi'Khi
2016-09-22, 01:30 AM
I've always loved the idea of a halfling monk. The image to me is just beautiful. Maybe one who lives in an area where halflings are typically made into slaves, and who is dedicated to freeing them from oppression. Maybe taking the vow of chains from pathfinder

ORione
2016-09-23, 01:41 AM
In 3.5, I'd like to play a Pseudodragon Sorcerer. After all, the default fluff for sorcerers is that they have dragon ancestry, and Pseudodragons are dragons small enough to fit in a party. But the level adjustment gives me pause.

Vrock_Summoner
2016-09-23, 03:37 AM
I hate to sound like a broken record, since 95% of my D&D-related answers come from the context of my Incarnum setting now that I'm largely disillusioned with the game otherwise. But it's always bothered me that a power source based around connecting with the spirits of the dead and empowering yourself based on the strength of your soul is so weak when used by powerful undead souls. I understand why plant or construct Incarnates would be ineffectual, but the fact that the undead are entirely incapable of taking Incarnum feats by default makes me sad.

Also, I don't know how awesome anyone else would consider this, but I did once play a Minotaur Jade Phoenix Mage, who focused on physical enhancement and fire spells and the handful of fire-related stances and maneuvers. She had Monkey Grip from the start and got the Powerful Build ability transferred to her later on (long story) so she was hefting around a Gargantuan greatsword at base size, and she occasionally got up-sized for extra hugeness. She wasn't ever near as effective as the rest of the party, even despite using the Pathfinder rules for ECL calculation, but I had a surprising amount of fun playing her given how little I typically enjoy D&D's combat.

Inevitability
2016-09-23, 08:19 AM
I hate to sound like a broken record, since 95% of my D&D-related answers come from the context of my Incarnum setting now that I'm largely disillusioned with the game otherwise. But it's always bothered me that a power source based around connecting with the spirits of the dead and empowering yourself based on the strength of your soul is so weak when used by powerful undead souls. I understand why plant or construct Incarnates would be ineffectual, but the fact that the undead are entirely incapable of taking Incarnum feats by default makes me sad.

1. Plants have a constitution score in 3.5.

2. The Undead Meldshaper feat takes care of the constitution issue for undead by swapping the critical ability score to wisdom.

Vrock_Summoner
2016-09-23, 01:20 PM
1. Plants have a constitution score in 3.5.
Do they really? Huh. Well, shows me for not having looked at a plant's stats at any time in the last several months before I said that.


2. The Undead Meldshaper feat takes care of the constitution issue for undead by swapping the critical ability score to wisdom.
Yeah, I'm aware of this, but no, it doesn't matter. It only shifts the Constitution to Wisdom for the inborn class abilities, and meldshapers need Incarnum feats to function at anything resembling even half-capacity. And Undead Meldshaper does nothing for feat prereqs.

haplot
2016-09-23, 03:01 PM
I once played in 3.5 a cleric of Pelor.... only thing was i didnt know IC that I was a natural born werewolf.

It came out in RP what i was though.

Inevitability
2016-09-23, 03:25 PM
I once played in 3.5 a cleric of Pelor.... only thing was i didnt know IC that I was a natural born werewolf.

It came out in RP what i was though.

That's pretty weird tbh: natural lycanthropes supposedly have full control over their shapechanging.

haplot
2016-09-23, 03:40 PM
Technically, because of our starting level, I couldn't be in full control of my shapechanging. It oinly happened for sure at full moon, whereapon the church would take me for walks around town, showing me off so to speak, and thereby hopefully putting off thieves.

There were mechanics in place for me to change whenever i took damage. I think it worked out that i had to make a save vs 10 0r 15 plus damage done to avoid changing. For some strange reason though, my dice would stop me from changing at some high damage done, but would force me to change whenever i took small amounts....

There were other roleplay considerations for me as well, which thankfully worked out in the end, but was a pain in the preverbably in the short term, although I cant remember off top of me head what they were... this was going back some time ago now.