Psions!!

[Mighty Physche]

I'm making a storyline psion but I don't understand the ruling on powers according to srd they only get 2 powers of each lv and 4 lv 9 powers. That seems horribly small pool to choose from when a sorcerer gets over 40. He is an unbodied psion (telepath) lv 16. This makes his manifest lv 20. How many powers should a psion get.

Ps. Do you replace power points or add the new value to the previous total

[Segev]

The power points listed for each level are the total power points a psion of that level has. They "replace," in other words. (Just like spells/day and spells known for a sorcerer are the total for that level, not added to them each level.)

You have it right: Psions don't know that many powers. They do, however, save some on the augmentations: one level 1 astral construct power is, essentially, all 9 levels of their equivalent to summon monster I through summon monster XI.

Sorcerers were supposed to be relatively focused magic-users, with a theme they stuck to. Psions more typically are, because their Discipline powers are usually sufficiently better than generic ones that they'll want to get more Discipline powers than generic ones. But they still have room to take a few powers to cover other bases.

Just not a lot of it.


Though I will point out that they gain 2 new powers every class level. That's going to be a minimum of 4 powers of every power level. (Unless they take powers of lower level than the maximum they can have; they could pick up a 5th 2nd level power and have only 3 3rd level powers, for example.)

[Malimar]

I'm making a storyline psion but I don't understand the ruling on powers according to srd they only get 2 powers of each lv and 4 lv 9 powers. That seems horribly small pool to choose from when a sorcerer gets over 40.

36 isn't really much fewer than 34 plus 9 cantrips. Psion comes out ahead in terms of real powers known, especially considering augmentation as Segev says, and the fact that most of the damage powers are effectively 4 spells in 1 because you pick the energy type when you manifest it, rather than when learning it as you do with spells.

[Mighty Physche]

thank you both turns out I was reading the original psion for 3.0 and the the 3.5 psion corrections. I ended up making my psion lv 26( 30 after adjusted lv for race) because of power focus requirements. This guy is totally op lol. I will just post his stats.

ps I am also allowing gear from pathfinder

Psion(telepath) 26 race unbodied 222 hp
str -
dex 22
con 16
int 41
wis 26
cha 30

fly 30(good), dark vision 60

AC 29, fort 16, ref 22, will 32

skill ranks (no modifiers)
bluff 29, concentration 29, diplomacy 29, gather information 29, knowledge psionics 10, psicraft 10, remote view 11, sense motive 29, disguise 29, intimidate 29, listen 29, spot 29
-im certain i did the math right while i was making him but looking at the skills now it doesn't look right

feats:
maximize power,twin power, quicken power, empower power, split psionic ray, speed of thought, psionic meditation, corrupting touch, agony touch, enervating touch, shriveling touch(dex), shriveling touch(con), psionic endowment, epic psionic focus x 4

Special:
Assume likeness, incorporeal
psi crystal resolve

BAB 17/12/7/2
Full attack 26/21/16/11
incorporeal attack damage (1d6 + 1d4 + 1d4(temp. con dmg), +1d4(perm. dex and con dmg) + 1 neg lv)

500 power points
powers:
1lv 1pp
disable, inertial armor, force screen, missive, deja vu

2lv 3pp
brain lock, crystal storm(really op), serenity, sustanence

3lv 5pp
mental barrier, time hop, body adjustment, body purification

4lv 7pp
schism, trace teleport, dominate, modify memory

5lv 9pp
true seeing, adapt body, psychic crush, power resistence

6lv 11pp
disintegrate, temporal acceleration, retrieve, mass cloud mind

7lv 13pp
decerebrate, divert teleport, ultra blast

8lv 15pp
recall death, true metabolism, teleport psionic greater

9lv 17pp
psychic chirurgery, realty revision, assimilate, affinity field, mind switch true, microcosm

has read sutra of tranquil thought and tome of clear thought +5

equipment
mask of the skull
boots of swift step
gauntlet of rust
glove of storing
headband of mental superiority +6
ioun stone on int +2
psychoactive skin of the hero
ring of theme song
cloak of charisma +6
belt of physical perfection

staff of ancient penumbra
annulus
psicrown of crystal mind
anti magic orb

basically the whole premises of this is to cast crystal storm and use all my feats to beef it up like crazy. I activate schism first and go to town. The final result is 2d4 slash + 1d4 con dmg. after all feats have been used and focused it results in a 23pp cost lv2 power after using maximize +4pp, twin +6pp, quicken +6pp, empower +2pp, split psionic ray +2pp. I can use them all at once because i took epic psionic focus four times letting me use 5 metapsionic feats at once. I shoot 2 split touch attack rays at 2 - 4 people. each ray deals 12 slashing dmg and 6 con dmg dc 23 to negate because of maximize and empower. now if you target only 2 players this means each, if hit, has taken 24 slashing dmg and 12 con dmg assuming a failed save. That was as a swift action now i use my move action to focus again, standard action to do it again without quicken power reducing my cost to 17pp. This, assuming you target the same players, double everything already stated so 2 players have taken 48 slashing dmg and 24 con dmg. now schism fires adding another 2 rays against the same players has them taking 60 slashing dmg and 36 con dmg. this was done on second full round first round using schism and focus powers for your quicken attack next round. the schism focuses for next round as well. now you can't move while doing this so your kind of a target. you can also just go straight dmg and disintegrate with this. if players make the dc you still deal 198 to 2 players x 3 making that 594 and if they save dc 27 they still take 135 assuming you only target 2 players.

[Khedrac]

Psion(telepath) 26 race unbodied 222 hp
...
BAB 17/12/7/2
Base attack bonus stops at level 20, after that one only gains epic attack bonus and no more iterative attacks.
With 4 HD from your race you hit the cap at psion 16 with a BAB of +12 (/+7/+2)
Add in 5 levels with a epic attack bonus you get:
BAB +17/12/7

You never get the 4th attack.

[Mighty Physche]

Base attack bonus stops at level 20, after that one only gains epic attack bonus and no more iterative attacks.
With 4 HD from your race you hit the cap at psion 16 with a BAB of +12 (/+7/+2)
Add in 5 levels with a epic attack bonus you get:
BAB +17/12/7

You never get the 4th attack.

thank you for the clarification. I thought you still gain class levels even though your hd is over 20 regularly. Other than that though did you see anything else wrong with this build?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Base attack bonus stops at level 20, after that one only gains epic attack bonus and no more iterative attacks.
With 4 HD from your race you hit the cap at psion 16 with a BAB of +12 (/+7/+2)
Add in 5 levels with a epic attack bonus you get:
BAB +17/12/7

You never get the 4th attack.There are a few ways to hack this. Divine power disregards the epic cap entirely, though you still have the 4 attack maximum, and racial hit dice also disregard the epic cap.

[Mighty Physche]

There are a few ways to hack this. Divine power disregards the epic cap entirely, though you still have the 4 attack maximum, and racial hit dice also disregard the epic cap.

Thanks, but the history of this character prevents him from interacting with any magic. I will keep that in mind though it could really come in handy.

[Zanos]

Base attack bonus stops at level 20, after that one only gains epic attack bonus and no more iterative attacks.
With 4 HD from your race you hit the cap at psion 16 with a BAB of +12 (/+7/+2)
Add in 5 levels with a epic attack bonus you get:
BAB +17/12/7

You never get the 4th attack.
RHD interacts strangely with the epic BAB rules. You can view this on any printed monster with more than 20 HD.

[Soranar]

Concerning the comment about psions not having as many powers as casters get spells

most powers scale very very well, making them way more useful than a spell

astral consruct, for example, is roughly equal to 9 spells (summon monster 1-9)
energy ray is equal to 8 spells (1 low level damage spell of each energy type and 1 high level damage spell of each energy type)

though many of the most broken powers are basically psionic version of spells

finally, if you want to boost your BAB you can just take the combat transformation power via expanded knowledge

[MaxiDuRaritry]

finally, if you want to boost your BAB you can just take the combat transformation power via expanded knowledgeConvincing a spell-to-power erudite to give you divine power via psychic chirurgery is much better than combat transformation, since it grants the same benefits without locking you out of your ability to manifest powers or cast spells. Even Tenser's transformation is better, because at least then you'll still be able to manifest your powers.

[Soranar]

Convincing a spell-to-power erudite to give you divine power via psychic chirurgery is much better than combat transformation, since it grants the same benefits without locking you out of your ability to manifest powers or cast spells. Even Tenser's transformation is better, because at least then you'll still be able to manifest your powers.

Sure but your option requires

spell to power erudite to exist
finding a spell to power erudite that knows divine power
convincing him to let you have the power

or

take a feat, just saying

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Sure but your option requires

spell to power erudite to exist
finding a spell to power erudite that knows divine power
convincing him to let you have the power

or

take a feat, just sayingMeh. Avoid combat transformation like the plague it is. It's a waste of both a feat (or power known) and power points. You're better off with just about anything else, since your powers are the most important and the most powerful things you have. Throwing them away, even temporarily, is dumb at best, and suicidal at worst.

[Calthropstu]

Meh. Avoid combat transformation like the plague it is. It's a waste of both a feat (or power known) and power points. You're better off with just about anything else, since your powers are the most important and the most powerful things you have. Throwing them away, even temporarily, is dumb at best, and suicidal at worst.

Agreed.
A psion without powers is far far easier to kill.

[Mighty Physche]

i don't really need the 4th attack I mean did you read the entire kill 2-4 players in two rounds thing? I should not be attacking, but if i have to my ethereal strike is crazy deadly dealing 2d4 con dmg every time it hits along with negative lvs. so if i hit with my touch attack 3 times against one player i have a range of 6 - 24 constitution dmg. I think i'm good.

[Troacctid]

Sure but your option requires

spell to power erudite to exist
finding a spell to power erudite that knows divine power
convincing him to let you have the power

or

take a feat, just saying
Don't forget you need a fairly expensive power stone of psychic chirurgery containing enough xp to transfer a 4th level power, and the erudite needs to be able to make the cross-class DC 37 Use Psionic Device check required to activate it.

Plus, spell-to-power erudites can only learn arcane spells, so that's an issue.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Plus, spell-to-power erudites can only learn arcane spells, so that's an issue.A very small issue. There are an abundance of ways to turn divine spells into arcane ones.

[Calthropstu]

i don't really need the 4th attack I mean did you read the entire kill 2-4 players in two rounds thing? I should not be attacking, but if i have to my ethereal strike is crazy deadly dealing 2d4 con dmg every time it hits along with negative lvs. so if i hit with my touch attack 3 times against one player i have a range of 6 - 24 constitution dmg. I think i'm good.

And then your pc polymorphs into a lich..

[Mighty Physche]

And then your pc polymorphs into a lich..

I still have disintegrate, decerberate, ultra blast, psychic crush, modify memory(now lich works for me)....why, because he thinks i have his soul item.

[Zanos]

I still have disintegrate, decerberate, ultra blast, psychic crush, modify memory(now lich works for me)....
Two things.
You can't polymorph into a lich, because it's a template and undead.
Even if you could, a lich is not vulnerable to half those spells, because undead creatures are immune to mind affecting spells/powers. Of that list, only disintegrate would work.

[Calthropstu]

I still have disintegrate, decerberate, ultra blast, psychic crush, modify memory(now lich works for me)....

Lich is immune to decerberate. No brain stem to teleport.
Modify memory has limits.
Disintigrate, however, is pretty much lich bane. Prolly the absolute most effective single kill anti undead spell.

[Mighty Physche]

Two things.
You can't polymorph into a lich, because it's a template and undead.
Even if you could, a lich is not vulnerable to half those spells, because undead creatures are immune to mind affecting spells/powers. Of that list, only disintegrate would work.

true....disintegrate it is!!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Keep your Knowledge skills boosted -- at least, the ones that glean info about monsters -- so you can keep tabs on what is weak to, strong against, and outright immune to your powers.

[Mighty Physche]

Keep your Knowledge skills boosted -- at least, the ones that glean info about monsters -- so you can keep tabs on what is weak to, strong against, and outright immune to your powers.

worse case scenario can't i just revise reality my way out of most problems?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

worse case scenario can't i just revise reality my way out of most problems?A.) You can only manifest reality revision when you hit manifesting class level 17 for certain classes, and B.) 5,000 xp is an unsustainable way to solve problems a couple of times every combat. Best to pull out as much knowledge as you can and use your powers intelligently. A single power point and the right power applied to a situation can be far more effective than spending the resources on the psionic version of wish.

[Mighty Physche]

Thank you all for the support. On a side note my players have decided to name this op psion Becky.... Kind of anti climatic but I can't change it now lol. If anyone is interested I have another post about big boss npc's and would appreciate a second look.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501025-Big-Boss-NPC

[digiman619]

Thank you all for the support. On a side note my players have decided to name this op psion Becky.... Kind of anti climatic but I can't change it now lol. If anyone is interested I have another post about big boss npc's and would appreciate a second look.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501025-Big-Boss-NPC

Too bad it wasn't Betsy, as then I could make an X-Men joke.

[Troacctid]

Ah, Becky, named, I presume, after the legendary Thran architect who originally sealed the portal between Dominaria and Phyrexia, before, of course, it was unwittingly reopened many years later by Urza and Mishra during the events leading up to the Brothers' War? Yes, yes, a fine name with a storied history.