Dex or con resilience for a necromancer?

[MrFahrenheit]

So my kid cousin, who goes through a character every other session, will be introducing his necromancer next time the group I DM for meets up.

Since necromancers' ritual-based minions don't require concentration, yet the THP the PC gets requires his spell to kill any given target, it occurred to me that con saving throws, while important, may not be as important as dex to this character. His spells will mostly be of the one action blast nature, and thus he is unlikely to take a lot of concentration-based spells.

While normally con is king of single-class caster secondary stats, am I wrong to believe that, for this build, dex is instead?

[JackPhoenix]

Grim Harvest's benefit works once a turn, which means the best spells to use it with are those that do damage and kills during enemy turns: Cloud of Daggers, Flaming Sphere, Evard's Black Tentacles, Wall of Fire, all of them are concentration spells. It also gets increased effect from necromancy spells... and one of the best, if not the best spell to use with Grim Harvest is Vampiric Touch, which, you guessed it, is concentration spell too

[JellyPooga]

and one of the best, if not the best spell to use with Grim Harvest is Vampiric Touch, which, you guessed it, is concentration spell too

Well worth building a character around though...

Wizard (Necromancer) 2/Warlock (Fiend, Tome) X
OR
Wizard (Necromancer) 2/Warlock (Fiend, Tome) 5/Cleric (Death) X

...could both be fun to play.

[MrFahrenheit]

Grim Harvest's benefit works once a turn, which means the best spells to use it with are those that do damage and kills during enemy turns: Cloud of Daggers, Flaming Sphere, Evard's Black Tentacles, Wall of Fire, all of them are concentration spells. It also gets increased effect from necromancy spells... and one of the best, if not the best spell to use with Grim Harvest is Vampiric Touch, which, you guessed it, is concentration spell too

Good points. Thanks!

[hymer]

While normally con is king of single-class caster secondary stats, am I wrong to believe that, for this build, dex is instead?

I think you are, but maybe not. Con saves are not only for Concentration, after all. They may be more or less common than dex saves, but that would depend on the campaign. But then you add to that the concentration issue.
If he actually has no Concentration spells worth mentioning, then you're right to ponder this. But how about Slow, Evard's Black Tentacles, or Conjure Elemental? None of those available?

[Specter]

Remember Wizards can get Absorb Elements for a spell. That makes DEX saves more negligible.

[MrFahrenheit]

I think you are, but maybe not. Con saves are not only for Concentration, after all. They may be more or less common than dex saves, but that would depend on the campaign. But then you add to that the concentration issue.
If he actually has no Concentration spells worth mentioning, then you're right to ponder this. But how about Slow, Evard's Black Tentacles, or Conjure Elemental? None of those available?

They're available. As I was going through his spellbook prior to responding earlier, I realized that a decent amount of his spells indeed required concentration.

[djreynolds]

Oh my, our necromancer got blasted by a beholder's disintegrate spell.

We put him in a jar, well his ashes, not sure if we got all of him or extra dirt.

[Citan]

So my kid cousin, who goes through a character every other session, will be introducing his necromancer next time the group I DM for meets up.

Since necromancers' ritual-based minions don't require concentration, yet the THP the PC gets requires his spell to kill any given target, it occurred to me that con saving throws, while important, may not be as important as dex to this character. His spells will mostly be of the one action blast nature, and thus he is unlikely to take a lot of concentration-based spells.

While normally con is king of single-class caster secondary stats, am I wrong to believe that, for this build, dex is instead?
Hi! Depends on several things.

1. Would you accept that Grim Harvest triggers through kills made by Animated Dead?
If yes, DEX Saves first.
Note though that I probably wouldn't myself unless I really want to make it easy for him, because it's very probably not RAI, probably not RAW, and in this context it's a nearly guaranteed 9hp regen per turn (already bordeline OP in itself, but can open cheese with partners). I saw several discussions on this though when some seem to admit it.

2. Does your player want to emphasize on a) blast + minions, or b) optimize Grim Harvest?
a) Dex saves.
b) Con saves.
I'd probably opt for the first case myself, because imo not taking damage in the first place is better, and I don't think 3/6/9 HP per turn will really make a difference when situations are really dire. With that said, a Vampiric Touch build can be nasty if played well, and having proficiency in Constitution saves is never wrong.

3. Does your player intend to max only INT or also DEX?
If he wants to maximize DEX (for Mage Armor, Mirror Image, initiative) then he can favor Resilient: Constitution. Because +5 is already a nice boost, that way he will have pretty good saves overall (only Charisma and Strength lacking).

4. Does your player want to stay full Wizard or would agree to a single-level multiclass dip?
Fighter 1 would allow you to wield light/medium armor and shield, so you can take Shield Master later. Since you don't really need a weapon as a caster, you can wield focus+shield. You get a nice boost in both AC and Dex saves (+2). A good choice whether you get normal (14), good (16) or great (18+) DEX.
If you start as Fighter, you also get Constitution proficiency (so you can choose later whether you'd prefer proficiency in either DEX or WIS saving throws).
Draconic Sorcerer 1 would also give Constitution proficiency if taken as start, along with permanent Mage Armor.
Both are good options for any Necromancer, and great options for a melee Necromancer (minions+Vampiric Touch or Shocking Grasp).
You're sacrificing a great capstone though, so only if he's set on a specific build. Otherwise don't bother.

[djreynolds]

That is good stuff, very well thought out

[SillyPopeNachos]

One thing to bear in mind is other (consistent) members of the party. If there is a rogue, they are almost always going to make their dex saves against spells and dragon's breath after a while, meaning the DM (depending on how much they want to threaten the party), might be less likely to throw evocationists, Red Dragons, and the like at the party, especially if other party members are good a dex saves, as well, but most have neglected con, as most parties do. Con saves shine when the DM throws a Green Dragon, as their breath attacks is a con save versus poison. That's not concentration on a spell, just survival.

[brainface]

Thematically, con all the way. He meddles with death all day, so it's hard to make him meet it all permanent like. Doesn't really help him limber up though.

[MrFahrenheit]

Hi! Depends on several things.

1. Would you accept that Grim Harvest triggers through kills made by Animated Dead?
If yes, DEX Saves first.
Note though that I probably wouldn't myself unless I really want to make it easy for him, because it's very probably not RAI, probably not RAW, and in this context it's a nearly guaranteed 9hp regen per turn (already bordeline OP in itself, but can open cheese with partners). I saw several discussions on this though when some seem to admit it.

2. Does your player want to emphasize on a) blast + minions, or b) optimize Grim Harvest?
a) Dex saves.
b) Con saves.
I'd probably opt for the first case myself, because imo not taking damage in the first place is better, and I don't think 3/6/9 HP per turn will really make a difference when situations are really dire. With that said, a Vampiric Touch build can be nasty if played well, and having proficiency in Constitution saves is never wrong.

3. Does your player intend to max only INT or also DEX?
If he wants to maximize DEX (for Mage Armor, Mirror Image, initiative) then he can favor Resilient: Constitution. Because +5 is already a nice boost, that way he will have pretty good saves overall (only Charisma and Strength lacking).

4. Does your player want to stay full Wizard or would agree to a single-level multiclass dip?
Fighter 1 would allow you to wield light/medium armor and shield, so you can take Shield Master later. Since you don't really need a weapon as a caster, you can wield focus+shield. You get a nice boost in both AC and Dex saves (+2). A good choice whether you get normal (14), good (16) or great (18+) DEX.
If you start as Fighter, you also get Constitution proficiency (so you can choose later whether you'd prefer proficiency in either DEX or WIS saving throws).
Draconic Sorcerer 1 would also give Constitution proficiency if taken as start, along with permanent Mage Armor.
Both are good options for any Necromancer, and great options for a melee Necromancer (minions+Vampiric Touch or Shocking Grasp).
You're sacrificing a great capstone though, so only if he's set on a specific build. Otherwise don't bother.

Good questions. 1. No (my logic is if it has its own initiative, grim harvest won't apply); 2. A; 3. Int; 4. Starting stat array is 8/15/15/17/10/8 (forest gnome with racial bonuses already figured in). Level 4 ASI would be int & dex or con + 1, level 8 would be int + 2, and level 12 would be resilient for whichever stat wasn't increased at level 4. So it's a really close call overall. He plans to stay single classed.

[JumboWheat01]

I always say CON first. A Necromancer is still a Wizard, even if you're focused on Necromancy, you still have the WHOLE MASSIVE SPELL LIST available to you, and a lot of concentration spells, Necromancy or no, are just too handy to have and best to hold onto.

About the only Wizard I wouldn't say CON first would be a Conjurer, since they (eventually,) get better than that built into their Conjuration spells, which naturally they're going to be making a lot of use out of for their concentration slot.