Eldritch Knight/Bladesinger VS Paladin/Sorcerer

[Floorlock]

So...I wanna make a gish. I rolled a 15, 16, 14, 16, 11, and 13 as stats. Which is an overall better progression? I don't see people talking about the eldritch knight/blade singer combo...but, there seems to be overwhelming love for the Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass.

If I go Eldritch Knight/Blade Singer...I think that I would most likely go Eldritch knight first... at least 5 levels for the extra attack....maybe 6 to get another ASI before I flow into Blade Singer. Depending on different options...racial choices and whatnot...I could have a fast moving arcane gish with a rather high AC...especially by keeping Shield in tow for defensive measures. This was my first thought...because I thought it would be neat to play an intelligence based character...my original concept was to play a sort of straightforward knight who was so good that he bordered on evil...in that he leaned towards totalitarian principles in order to accomplish the greater good...getting towards big-brother type actions...or at least something like an Ozymandius from Watchmen...and he needed to have a high intelligence to really round out the concept.

And then there's the Paladin/Sorcerer that I know everyone seems to love. If I'm going this direction...I think I would focus on Strength as opposed to Dexterity. This build would obviously speed up my progression towards hard hitting spell slots for smites and give me a lot of options to work with...especially with metamagic. If I'm going this route...I had the thought of making an undead themed paladin...perhaps a vengeance paladin who once fell in battle...but, somehow managed to live on and, through being touched by the shadowfell, eventually emerges with Shadow Sorcerer abilities. If I went this route...I had originally considered refluffing the Warforged race as undead...or using the revenant subrace (probably not)...but, then I wondered...does the Shadow Sorcerer not already provide enough undead flavor? It's basically a zombie if you use the default quirks and whatnot. Like before...I'd probably lean towards at least 5 or 6 of pure paladin for the extra attack and aura. This build is also interesting in that it gives me built in magical darkness that I can see through as an option...so there's that, too.

Overall...I'm just asking...what do people find to be a better/stronger option? Or is this just going to come down to nova vs sustainability? I can find a way to make either option work through flavor/theme/roleplaying...I just wanna know what the best options are in these builds...and when the best cut off points for them are where multiclassing is concerned. Is there anything I should know? Does one of these two provide more of a headache than the other?

[Dalebert]

EK/BS seems a bit redundant and not very efficient. EK can wear any armor. BS only works when you're in light armor. BS is defense that mainly comes in handy when you can't wear good armor. EK gets extra attack at 5th. BS gets it at 6th which is wasted if you already have it. I don't really see the appeal of this combo at all. If you're going to MC into wizard, maybe consider Abjurer for betting defense that stacks well with EK stuff, or really any other archetype other than BS. That's my thought.

Pally/sorc seems like you could get all sorts of synergy out of. You could do all sorts of fun things like twinning Booming Blade and stuff. Take warcaster and expand options even further.

[CaptAl]

EK/BS isn't bad. But I'd recommend just a dip in wizard for that. Nets you a spell book, extra spell slots, more variety in your lower level spells, some utility rituals, and the ever so lovely Bladesong. 3/5 levels of wizard, after getting to 5 for extra attack or 7 for war magic, would work. Then straight EK to the end. I would try to avoid EK 5 and BS 6 together as the extra attack doesn't stack.

Paladorcs have great synergy as either a tank or a burst damage machine. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 18 for a more glass cannon build. Or Paladin 6/Sorcerer 14 for the ultimate Smite tank. Or Pally 11/Sorcerer 9 for Aura of vitality with metamagic fun to be an awesome healer plus a burst damage specialist with tankiness for days. Can't go wrong really.

[Degwerks]

You can make EK/BS work just fine, same with your stats for pally/sorc or pally/warlock or arcane trickster/BS or AT/EK.

However with your stats, think about this with a wood elf +2 dex &+1wis, +5ft movement. Now you have 18 dex & 16 wis & 16 int. Monk/Bladesinger! Go for a kensai/magus eastern style gish. High mobility.

Start monk, your AC is 17 unarmored, grab bladesinger for next 4 lvls to boost dex to 20. Switch back to monk until you hit lvl 6 in it or 7 if you want evasion, then stay in bladesinger for the rest. While in bladesong your ac is 20 at lvl 3, plus the shield spell, when you get monk 2, you can dodge as a bonus action.

Either take Shadow Monk or Sun Soul monk. Both will add that gish style of flavor with bladesinger piled on.

Booming Blade & Greenflame Blade cantrips, cast BB, use bonus action to disengage etc.

[Specter]

If going Bladesinger, keep it below level 5; Extra Attack won't stack. Other possible schools are Abjuration and Divination, in those cases EK10/Wiz10 can work.

[rudy]

One thing I think people overlook about the Wizard is that they are the only class (to my knowledge) that you can get higher level spells for via multiclassing, assuming that your GM is the kind to let you find scrolls / copy from other wizards in the game world.

What I mean is, for example, consider Eldritch Knight 6 / Wizard 4. The effective spellcaster level, via the multiclass rules, is 6th level, meaning you have 3rd level spell slots.

The only restriction the wizard class places on being able to scribe and prepare spells is that you have spell slots of that level. Meaning that combo would be able to get access to 3rd level wizard spells. Of course, you wouldn't be able to *choose* 3rd level spells to add to your spellbook via level-up, so this is very GM dependent, but potentially interesting.

Just a note.

[rudy]

Actually, I'm looking at it again, and it depends on reading, but you may be able to choose 3rd level wizard spells if you have 3rd level slots when you gain Wizard 4, for example.

So, if you went (just for an example) Eldritch Knight 6 to start, when you took Wizard 3 you would have 3rd level slots via the multiclassing spell table. Which (again, depending on reading) would allow you to pick 3rd level wizard spells to add to your spellbook. The relevant text is:


Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table.

It comes down to whether the bolded part is interpreted as the actual rule, and the later part is merely a clarification under the assumption that you are not multiclassing (which is my interpretation). OR, whether the entire sentence is the rule in totality, meaning you have to have slots based on the Wizard table alone to add spells automatically to your spellbook.

Either way, you still have open the possibility of gaining higher level spells elsewhere.

[rudy]

Actually again... I think I'm completely wrong.

Based on pg. 164 under multiclassing, "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

So... I think you could still scribe the higher level spells... you just couldn't prepare them. So, might be able to do the higher wizard rituals... but that's obviously not something to get excited about.

[Erys]

Heh, Rudy. You got it now, no class can prepare (or learn) a spell level above what their single class has access to. BUT, you can 'up-cast' lower level spells in higher level slots.

[rudy]

Heh, Rudy. You got it now, no class can prepare (or learn) a spell level above what their single class has access to. BUT, you can 'up-cast' lower level spells in higher level slots.

Yeah. It's both a restriction that is both disappointing and obviously necessary at the same time, now that I think deeply about it.

Because, otherwise, Wizard 1 / Cleric 19...

[Gastronomie]

I'm writing a Paladin/Sorcerer guide right now. It's still under construction, but here, I'll PM you the link. Might give you insight on how to build them.

[Erys]

Yeah. It's both a restriction that is both disappointing and obviously necessary at the same time, now that I think deeply about it.

Because, otherwise, Wizard 1 / Cleric 19...

Mhmm. :smallcool:

But its fun to dream.

[rudy]

So, I do have to say that, mechanically, I think the Paladin/Sorcerer is going to be stronger.

That being said, I think you can make an amazing EK/BS with those stats.

You have to be an elf, so let's say High Elf so we can turn that 15 into another 16 (though Wood Elf would be nice too.

So, starting Stats as: 13 Str, 18 Dex, 16 Con, 16 Int, 14 Wis, 11 Cha, perhaps. This is already crazy.

You're going to be going Rapier, shield, studded leather. You could I suppose get Half Plate, for levels 2-3, and beat the AC by 1, but at level 4 you're going to bump dex to 20 and Studded Leather then gives the same AC, so why bother?

As you say, start with EK to level 6, 20 Dex & 18 Int. Switch to Wizard for four levels, to get access to 2nd level wizard spells, Bladesong, and another ASI (20 Int). Once you have Bladesong, you can strap your shield to your pack for the times your Bladesong has run out.

Then I would switch back to EK for one level. Because then you get War Magic at the exact time that cantrips get their next boost (11th level). Before then you're just as good making two attacks most of the time, rather than a cantrip and 1 attack.

Finally, back to Wizard for one more level, for EK 7 / Wizard 5, and the 3rd level Wizard spells (and 4th level slots).

After that, I would stick with Eldritch Knight all the way, personally. At the very least, go to EK 10 for the Eldritch Strike, before switching back to Wizard. Extra Attack (2) is of course far from crucial because of War Magic.

One really nice benefit to this build is that it lets you get AC equivalent to a heavy armor shield-bearer (at least when Bladesong is active) without having to pay the War Caster feat tax. Between your proficiency in Concentration saves and your Concentration bonus from Bladesong, you should be fine on that end.

[rudy]

This may be silly/crazy, but were it my character, given your absurd stats, and noting therefore that you qualify for ranger...

After EK 10 / BS 5, I would seriously consider dipping in to Ranger for 4 levels. Boosts your effective multiclass spell level by 2, nets you another fighting style (whichever of Defense and Dueling you didn't already choose), Hunter's Mark (and other Ranger spells), Colussus Slayer (which is a nice rider for your one weapon attack with War Magic) or Horde Breaker (which works with War Magic, giving you two weapon attacks with your cantrip sometimes), rounding out with another feat at the end.

Then you're 19, and it doesn't really matter so much what you take. Game's over. Maybe one level of Rogue, just to make things really absurd. Why not add Sneak Attack, too?

[Arelai]

Mhmm. :smallcool:

But its fun to dream.

Did you guys not see the "Faithful" unearthed arcana that has a wizard that gets cleric spells? It's ridiculous.

[rudy]

Did you guys not see the "Faithful" unearthed arcana that has a wizard that gets cleric spells? It's ridiculous.

Oh, wow, I hadn't seen it, but that is ridiculous. Especially once you realize that if you pick the "Arcana" domain, it's easy to get all the domain spells in your spellbook, and then have free pick of Cleric spells after that.

[Specter]

So, I do have to say that, mechanically, I think the Paladin/Sorcerer is going to be stronger.

That being said, I think you can make an amazing EK/BS with those stats.

You have to be an elf, so let's say High Elf so we can turn that 15 into another 16 (though Wood Elf would be nice too.

So, starting Stats as: 13 Str, 18 Dex, 16 Con, 16 Int, 14 Wis, 11 Cha, perhaps. This is already crazy.

You're going to be going Rapier, shield, studded leather. You could I suppose get Half Plate, for levels 2-3, and beat the AC by 1, but at level 4 you're going to bump dex to 20 and Studded Leather then gives the same AC, so why bother?

As you say, start with EK to level 6, 20 Dex & 18 Int. Switch to Wizard for four levels, to get access to 2nd level wizard spells, Bladesong, and another ASI (20 Int). Once you have Bladesong, you can strap your shield to your pack for the times your Bladesong has run out.

Then I would switch back to EK for one level. Because then you get War Magic at the exact time that cantrips get their next boost (11th level). Before then you're just as good making two attacks most of the time, rather than a cantrip and 1 attack.

Finally, back to Wizard for one more level, for EK 7 / Wizard 5, and the 3rd level Wizard spells (and 4th level slots).

After that, I would stick with Eldritch Knight all the way, personally. At the very least, go to EK 10 for the Eldritch Strike, before switching back to Wizard. Extra Attack (2) is of course far from crucial because of War Magic.

One really nice benefit to this build is that it lets you get AC equivalent to a heavy armor shield-bearer (at least when Bladesong is active) without having to pay the War Caster feat tax. Between your proficiency in Concentration saves and your Concentration bonus from Bladesong, you should be fine on that end.

I'm playing almost this exact build: High Elf, Defense, leather, though I'll wait until level 10 to move to Wizard (Abjuration). I'm at level 7, and with two magic items I have a natural AC of 22. The DM has already stopped trying to hit me with attacks, sweet.

[Citan]

So...I wanna make a gish. I rolled a 15, 16, 14, 16, 11, and 13 as stats. Which is an overall better progression? I don't see people talking about the eldritch knight/blade singer combo...but, there seems to be overwhelming love for the Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass.

If I go Eldritch Knight/Blade Singer...I think that I would most likely go Eldritch knight first... at least 5 levels for the extra attack....maybe 6 to get another ASI before I flow into Blade Singer. Depending on different options...racial choices and whatnot...I could have a fast moving arcane gish with a rather high AC...especially by keeping Shield in tow for defensive measures. This was my first thought...because I thought it would be neat to play an intelligence based character...my original concept was to play a sort of straightforward knight who was so good that he bordered on evil...in that he leaned towards totalitarian principles in order to accomplish the greater good...getting towards big-brother type actions...or at least something like an Ozymandius from Watchmen...and he needed to have a high intelligence to really round out the concept.

And then there's the Paladin/Sorcerer that I know everyone seems to love. If I'm going this direction...I think I would focus on Strength as opposed to Dexterity. This build would obviously speed up my progression towards hard hitting spell slots for smites and give me a lot of options to work with...especially with metamagic. If I'm going this route...I had the thought of making an undead themed paladin...perhaps a vengeance paladin who once fell in battle...but, somehow managed to live on and, through being touched by the shadowfell, eventually emerges with Shadow Sorcerer abilities. If I went this route...I had originally considered refluffing the Warforged race as undead...or using the revenant subrace (probably not)...but, then I wondered...does the Shadow Sorcerer not already provide enough undead flavor? It's basically a zombie if you use the default quirks and whatnot. Like before...I'd probably lean towards at least 5 or 6 of pure paladin for the extra attack and aura. This build is also interesting in that it gives me built in magical darkness that I can see through as an option...so there's that, too.

Hi!
You have godly stats! With those stats, both are pretty good choices.
I don't think anyone could say one is better than the other.
The reasons Paladin / Sorcerer is so commonly appreciated are...
- First and foremost, you bring more slots to smite with (but any caster works here)
- Second, you bring a bunch of nice debuffs/blast spells that use the same spellcast (now only Bard because Magic Secrets, Sorcerer and Warlock).
- Third, because Metamagic synergize greatly with many Paladin spells.
Here, you have your reasons.

With that said, EK+Wizard is also a very strong combination.
EK+Bladesinger works best as a Wizard <6 dip because Extra Attack won't stack, but it can still be worth it because Song of Defense and better spells.
The only sure thing is that for such a mix, you have to get Fighter part to at least 11 levels because of three attacks + disadvantage on saving throws.

Now, considering you have such godly stats, may I suggest, just for kicks, a totally theorycrafty lvl 20 gish character? Not that i would actually recommend it though, it's here for wild ideas.

15, 16, 14, 16, 11, and 13 >>>
Half-Elf STR 13, DEX 16+1, CON 15+1, INT 16, WIS 11, CHA 14+2.
Build made of...
Paladin Devotion 2: Divine Smite
Bladesinger 2: +INT to AC and concentration
Fighter 11: 3 attacks per Attack with Dueling
Draconic Sorcerer 5.
Since you have such good stats, you can just bump once CHA since it's your casting stat (and even so, you could do without). On your 4 ASI, besides the aforementioned choice, you could get Resilient:DEX to bump your DEX, Sentinel and Polearm Master will make you extremely good at stopping enemies in their tracks or even STR and WIS.
In the biggest fights, you would get the following.
AC = 17+3 = 20.
Concentration saves = 6 (proficiency if start Fighter) + 3 + 3 = 12.
Fight opening: use Attack action to hit up to 3 enemies, then Quicken a debuff: rolling at disadvantage against a 8+3+6 would let many creatures fail. Blindness or Slow would be your go-to spells.
You also get a pretty decent lvl 11 spellcaster level to play with, so you get better variety and slots than a pure EK.
Of course, this build is not a min-max ;)
You don't get THAT better than a pure EK in spellcasting, arguably the same as a pure Paladin, and it would not be the easiest to build.
Still, you would get extremely decent sustained damage (4 attacks / turn), good nova damage (smite) and a large variety of low/mid level blast/debuff/buffs/healing spells.

[ChaosRonin]

Isn't it more optimal to just go Fighter 2/BS X if you want to multi into Bladesinger due to the redundant extra attack?

I have always seen people talking about EK 7/Aburuer X

Paladin 2-6/Sorc X is pretty well documented as the most versatile build in the game ATM.

But yea as everyone has said with those stats you could put together any race with any class and still be more than solid.

[djreynolds]

Isn't it more optimal to just go Fighter 2/BS X if you want to multi into Bladesinger due to the redundant extra attack?

I have always seen people talking about EK 7/Aburuer X

Paladin 2-6/Sorc X is pretty well documented as the most versatile build in the game ATM.

But yea as everyone has said with those stats you could put together any race with any class and still be more than solid.

Correct, that 18th level ability of a wizard, means free shield spell basically. I would grab a level of monk but you would need a 16 minimum in wisdom to be better than mage armor. So its not worth it.

And wisdom saves are as important as con saves, equal in my book, so you want both. And a bladesinger is not using a shield.

I would go rogue 2/BS X for cunning action. And I would start off a BS first for wisdom save proficiencies, you dex will be high enough. Throw those 16 in intelligence and dex.

What you could do with those stats is bladesinger paladin

[Degwerks]

I still think BS/Monk with those stats would be awesome.

[djreynolds]

It could be cool, he has the stats for any build.

Imagine 14BS and monk, and flurry of blows, could be cool.

Would you get the intelligence bonus to unarmed strikes?

[rudy]

Would you get the intelligence bonus to unarmed strikes?

Unclear. PHB 195 says:


Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an **unarmed strike**: a punch, kick, ....

There are two possible interpretations of this sentence, and it could have been more clearly worded either way.

Option 1: "When you make a melee weapon attack, instead of using a weapon you can use an **unarmed strike**: a punch, kick, ...."

In that option, then the answer to your question is clearly 'yes'. This is the interpretation I favor.

Option 2: "Instead of making a melee weapon attack, you can make a melee attack with an **unarmed strike**: a punch, kick, ..."

In which case the answer to your question is 'no'.

[Citan]

Unclear. PHB 195 says:



There are two possible interpretations of this sentence, and it could have been more clearly worded either way.

Option 1: "When you make a melee weapon attack, instead of using a weapon you can use an **unarmed strike**: a punch, kick, ...."

In that option, then the answer to your question is clearly 'yes'. This is the interpretation I favor.

Option 2: "Instead of making a melee weapon attack, you can make a melee attack with an **unarmed strike**: a punch, kick, ..."

In which case the answer to your question is 'no'.
IIRC there is no uncertainty: unarmed strikes are considered melee weapon attacks (although your fists/elbow/whatever are NOT considered weapons). So it would apply since the text target "melee weapon attacks" and not "melee weapons".

[rudy]

IIRC there is no uncertainty: unarmed strikes are considered melee weapon attacks (although your fists/elbow/whatever are NOT considered weapons). So it would apply since the text target "melee weapon attacks" and not "melee weapons".

Ah; I'm just going based on the text. If there's clarification elsewhere, I'm unaware of it.

To be clear, I agree with that interpretation, it just doesn't seem 100% fullproof from my reading of the book itself.

[Degwerks]

It could be cool, he has the stats for any build.

Imagine 14BS and monk, and flurry of blows, could be cool.

Would you get the intelligence bonus to unarmed strikes?

It'd be very cool. You could have 3-4 attacks to conserve spell slots, each doing dex+int mod dmg. Lots of bonus action stuff, if a wood elf you'd have a 50ft move speed. Very mobile and stealthy character with additional Pass w/o Trace option as well.

[SillyPopeNachos]

Multiclassing a fighter has always been an issue in my mind. They get good stuff every level, so if I think of a fighter, ANY dip is going to cost the 4th attack per round, and any beyond 1 is going to remove an ABI/feat. However, other classes dipping into fighter have seemed good, like rogue, ranger, paladin, and full casters. Also, Wizard being tier 1, it only seems to benefit them to dip up to 3 levels, as they can still continue to learn any wizard spell in the game. So if going for the Elritch Knight/Blade Singer, I'd go EK 3 and BS 17. If going with paladorc, I'd go Paladin 6 (standard) or 7 (ancients) and the rest in Sorcerer, because Lore Bard cross-classes better with Paladin 2 than Sorcerer.

[Citan]

Multiclassing a fighter has always been an issue in my mind. They get good stuff every level, so if I think of a fighter, ANY dip is going to cost the 4th attack per round, and any beyond 1 is going to remove an ABI/feat. However, other classes dipping into fighter have seemed good, like rogue, ranger, paladin, and full casters. Also, Wizard being tier 1, it only seems to benefit them to dip up to 3 levels, as they can still continue to learn any wizard spell in the game. So if going for the Elritch Knight/Blade Singer, I'd go EK 3 and BS 17. If going with paladorc, I'd go Paladin 6 (standard) or 7 (ancients) and the rest in Sorcerer, because Lore Bard cross-classes better with Paladin 2 than Sorcerer.
Hmm, I wonder if we could say that there is a good thing for every level. It's probably a matter of taste, but depending on the chosen archetype and end objective, I find levels between 13 and 17 somewhat lackluster...
The loss of 4th is a tough one for sure though, but I still can see how multiclassing brings enough to compensate. Whereas, for example, I wouldn't see any build that pretends being a Fighter stop before 11th level, whatever the archetype. :)

[WereRabbitz]

I am currently doing the Ancient Paladin / Draconic Sorcerer combo with PAM

PAM + Haste = 4 attacks and all 4 get the 1d8 IDS Bonus damage
Any of them could be used for regular smites

I went Ancients & Half Elf because I want to be a little more defensive

Style: Defense
Haste: +2 AC, Adv to Dex Saves
Aura of Warding: Resistant to Magic (Ancient Aura)
Aura of Protection: +5 to all saves (cha based)
Plate (18) + Defense Style (1) + Haste (2) + Shield on reaction (5) = 26 AC
10ft Reach

High AC makes it hard for casters to land touch spells or Melee to hit me (CR 21 Black Dragon only has 40% to hit me)
If they cast a AOE spell then I have +5 Saves and Advantage on Dex Saves
If they manage to still hit me with a spell I take half damage due to resistance (Helps on Concentration Saves)
Lay of Hands - Heals, Removes poisons, Removes Disease, ect...

[Corran]

So...I wanna make a gish. I rolled a 15, 16, 14, 16, 11, and 13 as stats. Which is an overall better progression? I don't see people talking about the eldritch knight/blade singer combo...but, there seems to be overwhelming love for the Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass.

If I go Eldritch Knight/Blade Singer...I think that I would most likely go Eldritch knight first... at least 5 levels for the extra attack....maybe 6 to get another ASI before I flow into Blade Singer. Depending on different options...racial choices and whatnot...I could have a fast moving arcane gish with a rather high AC...especially by keeping Shield in tow for defensive measures. This was my first thought...because I thought it would be neat to play an intelligence based character...my original concept was to play a sort of straightforward knight who was so good that he bordered on evil...in that he leaned towards totalitarian principles in order to accomplish the greater good...getting towards big-brother type actions...or at least something like an Ozymandius from Watchmen...and he needed to have a high intelligence to really round out the concept.
Emphasis mine. Since I figure that EK/bladesinger matches better with the style of that character, I would advise you to roll with it. Now, I haven't looked near enough into the potential of such a multiclass (EK/BS), but if I were to play a dnd character inspired by Ozymandias, I would go with pure bladesinger. We need him to be fast, smart and powerful (from a mechanical perspective). Let mobile and bladesinging (even haste perhaps? meh, dont like it on bladesingers) deal with the fast aspect, intelligence is bound to be high as you are a wizard, so smart is taken care off too, and lastly, powerful ties really well with singleclass sorcerer. So yeah, if it were me, pure bladesinger.

If you however want to dip at EK, keep in mind what war magic (at EK level 7) does. Again, I would probably only dip for 2-3 levels if I had to, as I would prefer to not delay further my spell progression.


And then there's the Paladin/Sorcerer that I know everyone seems to love. If I'm going this direction...
GWM or not?
If GWM, then paladin5 (devotion or vengeance mechanically, vengeance fits the concept better) for extra attack, followed by sorcerer 2 (for darkness) would be my aim, at least for character level 8.
If not GWM, the sth like paladin 4 for warcaster, followed by sorcerer 3 and then by one more level 1 paladin for the aura, would be my plan again for character level 8.
I am not fixing on level 8 for any particular reason, I am just presenting up to that abstract point my level progression.

[Floorlock]

Thank you, everyone, for all of the in depth insight into this situation.

I'm sorry that I never clarified in the first place about the Eldritch Knight/Bladesinger combo. I saw that some were asking me what the point was in going that direction...since extra attack doesn't stack. I never intended it to, and I only meant to progress two levels in...primarily for Bladesong...maybe four levels just to catch more spells and get an ASI. My comment about going 6 levels into fighter first was just for the extra attack and to grab the 6th level ASI...and then I intended to go Bladesinger for only about two to four levels or so to nab bladesong and some extra magic potential. I guess the real question was what's a better gish in the first place...Eldritch Knight or Paladin...before all the multiclassing.

Either way, it seems to be the consensus that Paladin's are awesome...and that a Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass is one of the strongest and most versatile paths in the entirety of the game. Maybe I'll just stick with that route. I still have a lot to look over...but, there are a lot of good arguments made within this thread. :smallsmile:

[DivisibleByZero]

I guess the real question was what's a better gish in the first place...Eldritch Knight or Paladin...before all the multiclassing.


It depends on what you're going for. They're both good at what they do, but they do those things differently.
The same can be said for valor bard and bladelock as well.