Is multiclassing an illusionist worth it?

[RaynorReynolds]

I feel like wizards are one of the few classes where multiclassing might not be worth it. Are there any classes that would be worth multiclassing into as a illusionist?

[Sigreid]

I can't imagine multi-classing an illusionist until after you have 9th level spells and all the sub-class goodies; so I don't think it's worth it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Warlock 2 for Misty Visions and maybe Mask of Many Faces has potential-- at-will Silent Image would be a ton of fun with Malleable Reality.

[BW022]

I feel like wizards are one of the few classes where multiclassing might not be worth it. Are there any classes that would be worth multiclassing into as a illusionist?

There are two times when multi-classing seems to work in 5E. a) When you take an initial dip in another class in order to gain survivability at low-levels, and b) when taking a few levels at higher levels in a second class gives extremely complimentary features.

For wizards... b) is almost never really that great. Once you survive low-levels, there are few features in another class which are worth delaying your spell casting for. However, a) can be an issue. Wizards are pretty weak at low-levels and you might want to pickup a class which gives armor, weapons or other abilities to help with survival.

Cleric is probably one of the better options. Several give heavy armor, although you likely won't have the strength. Thus, even the medium armor types might be better choices. Knowledge cleric stands out. You need a 13 wisdom (and likely want a 14), but you know have medium armor and a shield. This gives you more hit points, healing, a lot of knowledge skills, a wider range of spells, cantrips, etc. You are more survivable, with the cost of not having your highest level spells half the time. That said, you have the slots and can always cast lower level spells into them.

The main question would be... are you comfortable reaching 3rd or 4th level as a straight wizard? If you have a good party, are skilled, can stay out of melee and watch yourself with ranged combat, you should be good. If you were in a small group, lacks a good front-line character, had no healer, etc. then maybe a cleric level would be needed. Otherwise... likely around 7th, you'll be wishing you hadn't taken the level of cleric.

[Dalebert]

Warlock 2 for Misty Visions and maybe Mask of Many Faces has potential-- at-will Silent Image would be a ton of fun with Malleable Reality.

And yet it's a little redundant since a warlock can just recast Silent Image whenever. It's nice that you don't have to actually cast so it's kind of like subtle spell in that respect. Still, being able to cast Silent Image casually and then alter it later would be handy.

I honestly seriously considered this combo but it feels hard to justify the loss of two wizard levels for. The Disguise Self at will doesn't seem as good once you have Seeming which lasts 8 hours and you can change it whenever you want. You practically have a better version of Disguise Self at will simply for the cost of a 5th level slot once a day, except for your whole party, and without having to keep recasting. You just change it, subtly.

Similarly, once you get 6th level slots, you can make Major Images that are permanent and changeable. So my thought is skip the warlock levels and just advance faster as a wizard.

[Tanarii]

Wizards are fantastic to multiclassing into from EK or AT, when it's easy to see the trade-off as gaining more spellcasting because you've got sufficient martial capability. When you do it the other way around its basically the same in reverse. It just feels harder to justify not getting the next level of spellcasting as 'sufficient spellcasting capability'.

Or to put it another way, you will at some point end up at the same spot (say EK 7 / Wizard 7). But for most people, layering martial on top of spellcasting to get there feels like sacrificing more than layering spellcasting on top of martial.

Also multiclassing in any full caster class is perfectly effective, if MAD, as long as you don't mind upcast in your (many) low level spells into higher level spell slots. That's still a trade-off of power for versatility, it's just not (quite) as an extreme loss on the spellcasting side as trading it for non-(or less-than-full)-caster levels

[Daishain]

I mixed one level of Knowledge Cleric with my Diviner Wizard. Worked very well, notable boost in flexibility and survivability, expertise in two skills I used a lot (history and arcana), full spell slots, and only a minor delay in Wiz spells and features. The only awkward bit was at level 1, when I didn't have my attack cantrip or familiar.

as others have mentioned, 2 levels of warlock can be of notable benefit as well.

[Specter]

A good point for Knowledge Cleric is accessing any skill you want, which might be good for crafting detailed illusions or specific tasks (like Sneaking and Fabricating stuff). If you want damage and survivability, go Fighter for +4AC, Second Wind and Action Surge.

[Pex]

Warlock 2 for Misty Visions and maybe Mask of Many Faces has potential-- at-will Silent Image would be a ton of fun with Malleable Reality.


And yet it's a little redundant since a warlock can just recast Silent Image whenever. It's nice that you don't have to actually cast so it's kind of like subtle spell in that respect. Still, being able to cast Silent Image casually and then alter it later would be handy.

I honestly seriously considered this combo but it feels hard to justify the loss of two wizard levels for. The Disguise Self at will doesn't seem as good once you have Seeming which lasts 8 hours and you can change it whenever you want. You practically have a better version of Disguise Self at will simply for the cost of a 5th level slot once a day, except for your whole party, and without having to keep recasting. You just change it, subtly.

Similarly, once you get 6th level slots, you can make Major Images that are permanent and changeable. So my thought is skip the warlock levels and just advance faster as a wizard.

Perhaps what was meant was Illusory Reality? It's Malleable Illusions at 6th level which allows changing the nature of illusions. Illusory Reality at 14th level is what enables an Illusionist to make an inanimate object in the illusion real which would be very handy with at will Silent Image.

[SharkForce]

Perhaps what was meant was Illusory Reality? It's Malleable Illusions at 6th level which allows changing the nature of illusions. Illusory Reality at 14th level is what enables an Illusionist to make an inanimate object in the illusion real which would be very handy with at will Silent Image.

I'm afb, but doesn't illusory reality specify that you must use a spell slot?

[Daishain]

I'm afb, but doesn't illusory reality specify that you must use a spell slot?
It must be used with a spell of level one or higher (so no cantrips), but it does not have a cost of its own, nor does it specify that the spell must actually use up a spell slot to count.

By RAW, the way it is written, at will Silent Image+IR works just fine. I doubt that was RAI though, and DMs may wish to consider limiting that kind of use before it gets out of hand.

[SharkForce]

It must be used with a spell of level one or higher (so no cantrips), but it does not have a cost of its own, nor does it specify that the spell must actually use up a spell slot to count.

By RAW, the way it is written, at will Silent Image+IR works just fine. I doubt that was RAI though, and DMs may wish to consider limiting that kind of use before it gets out of hand.

doesn't seem worth getting worked up over. they can already have a permanent major image by the time they're able to use illusory reality, change it to what they need, and then make it real, and they can do it 2 levels earlier because they don't need a warlock dip.

[Dalebert]

doesn't seem worth getting worked up over. they can already have a permanent major image by the time they're able to use illusory reality, change it to what they need, and then make it real, and they can do it 2 levels earlier because they don't need a warlock dip.

I was just discussing this with a friend last night. The level dip to warlock just slows you down for the most part. I'd rather give up a 5th level slot once a day to have adjustable Seeming all day long and I'd rather get to lvl 11 faster so I can have permanent pet illusions that I can turn into whatever I want without even having to cast. It's a limited sort of subtle spell at that point. At that point, your abilities trump the warlock invocations and I'm sure I'd be regretting the level dip.

I don't know about RAI. It feels like they just didn't think this through very well. It should probably have a stipulation that you can only use illusory reality once per spell. At that point, the dip would make sense.

[RaynorReynolds]

Thanks everyone for the discussion! This is what I was thinking as well. I will be going illusionist all the way.

[Dalebert]

I want to make an illusionist too but I'm worried DMs are going to start hating me really fast. I'd have at least one pet illusion with me all the time, probably looking like an unhappy and kind of exhausted squire. We'd get to a chasm we have to cross and I'd gesture and the squire would go flying into the chasm and transform into a bridge. We'd cross the bridge. I'd gesture again and the bridge would transform back into my squire, panting and miserable. Next we'd be getting chased down a corridor and I'd gesture and my squire would turn into a rock wall. The enemies would pound on the wall for a bit while we get ready for them. After the fight, I turn him back.

"I feel stoned."

I'd totally give him his own well-developed personality.

[Segev]

Malleable Illusions + creation can achieve the majority of what you'd want to use Illusory Reality + Misty Visions to accomplish, and do so by level 9. Further, that's level 16 before you can do the latter combination. If you don't multiclass out and kill your spell level progression, you can get silent image at will as one of your Wizard class features at level 18, just two levels later. And you'll have 9th level spells by level 17, rather than having to wait for level 19.

[Tanarii]

I want to make an illusionist too but I'm worried DMs are going to start hating me really fast. I'd have at least one pet illusion with me all the time, probably looking like an unhappy and kind of exhausted squire.
That'd take an awful lot of spell castings, give it can't move outside the range of the original spell casting. (Assuming Silent Image.)

[Mechaviking]

I feel like wizards are one of the few classes where multiclassing might not be worth it. Are there any classes that would be worth multiclassing into as a illusionist?

Ranger definetly Ranger :D

[Saeviomage]

Later on 2 or 3 levels of sorcerer can be nice. You delay spells, but you get the ability to reshuffle spell slots, cast spells in the open without anyone noticing (and apparently stump counterspell), and cast spells as a bonus action/cast spells with save disadvantage/something else.

Plus you can get some nifty sorcerous origin abilities.

It's a hard choice.

[Dalebert]

That'd take an awful lot of spell castings, give it can't move outside the range of the original spell casting. (Assuming Silent Image.)

Two things to correct here. First off, "range" refers to distance from the caster. If it's to mean something else like "distance from where the caster was when he first cast the spell", the spell needs to specify that exception.

Second thing, I was talking about Major Image cast from a 6th level slot making it permanent. I thought that was clear from the context of the rest of the thread since we talked about it and about how that combined with malleable illusions was better than Silent Image at will and you can do that from 11th level on. And then at 14th you can make an object real for a minute whenever you want. So if you have a permanent illusion, you can make it follow you around and change it whenever you want and make part of it real any time you want.

[Tanarii]

Range is the distance from the caster when he casts the spell. Malleable illusions doesn't change that. It's still restricted to movement within that original range from where the caster was when he cast it. Not where he is when he uses malleable illusions. (Or for that matter, without malleable illusions.)

[Dalebert]

Range is the distance from the caster when he casts the spell.

This is the first time I've heard of anyone interpreting it that way. It doesn't say that and it seems rather contrived. If they intended it to be anchored to a certain spot, they'd have said so. Range means distance from the caster. You have to be within range of it to move it and you can only move it somewhere within range of you. By this bizarre version of range, where you are doesn't matter. You could be somewhere else entirely, maybe miles away, and decide it's going to move somewhere within range of its anchor point.