New Psion Seeks Advice!

[TheFamilarRaven]

Hey playground! So recently my DM has been enthralled with Ultimate Psionics for Pathfinder, and for the next adventure he is requiring at least one party member to be a psionic class. (I believe he specified either Psion or Psychic warrior).

Now, my fellow players have opted to be "normies", which I take to mean "non-caster of any kind". And there may be a Bard joining us.

I myself have no experience with psionics, but as the most rules savvy person in the group (and I'm not even that rules savvy), I decided I'd like to try this whole Psionic thing out, so I'm rolling up a Psion. I've read thru the rules on psionic manifesting and it seems simple enough, but I find myself overwhelmed with the amount of paths the Psion class can take.

TL;DL I'm seeking advice in building my Psion. The starting level is 5, with standard WBL. We start with the VERY generous stat array of [20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10]. My plan is to be a battle-field controller with some buffing thrown in and MAYBE some blasting. I'd like advice on what powers to pick, feats and items. I don't need a cheesy build, just something to decently able contribute to the party.

Thanks in advance!

[Canine]

Welcome to the wonderful world of psionics! One resource to help get you started is the Psion's Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472713-Let-s-make-a-DSP-Pathfinder-Psion-Handbook), which should provide lots of good material.

Battlefield control isn't hard, although you don't get all the awesome powers that wizards get, you have plenty of mind control options to create instant allies and several AoE effects. You'll probably also want to grab a couple of metapsionic effects to augment your control abilities. Blasting is easy, and the way powers scale you can probably pick one or two blasting powers that you like and keep using them throughout your career. Buffing is a bit harder, not generally being in the wheelhouse of the psion. Mention must be made of the Tactician (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?228324-PF-The-Chess-Master-A-Tactical-Guide-to-the-Tactician), a psionic class with probably the best buffing and debuffing/control ability, and it also lets you dabble (or more than dabble, with archetypes) in healing; this assumes that your GM is flexible about the requirement for someone to play a Psion or Psychic Warrior specifically. Your generous stat array may also be more helpful with the Tactician than the Psion.

Couple of other things:
1 - Your manifester level (generally your level in the class) is the cap on how many PP you can spend on a power, including metapsionic feats.
2 - Psicrystal + Vigor + Share Pain is a great way to increase your survivability.
3 - Expanded Knowledge is a fantastic feat, especially for grabbing powers from other class lists.

Hope you enjoy your crazy trip through the mind.

[Calthropstu]

There are many many paths you can take.

Fun thing with psions though, is through the use of the feat expanded knowledge and using your wealth to purchase castings of psychic chirurgery, and creative application of psychic reformation, you literally do not have to choose a path.

Take the feat expanded knowledge to pick up astral construct (unless you are taking that discipline)

For battlefield control, literally all the disciplines have it. So it becomes a matter of how you want to do it. Control the minds of others and force them to do things they don't want? Telepath has powers such as crisis of breath (a very nice ability fully effective at higher levels and lower)
Move objects around? Kineticist. Also great at damage dealing as they don't have to use a set element and can switch between fire cold acid electric and sonic at will.
Shape yourself and the battlefield to your will? Shaper. Metamorphosis is very flexible, and you don't need a feat for astral construct, which is basically getting you 9 spells in one. Add psionic grease and other control spells, shapers are very versatile both early and late.
Seers have some nice buffs too.

I do not advise going dual discipline since you can access whatever piwers you need. Telepath is the best choice if you want to hit psychic reformation at level 7 rather than 9 (since you can only get it with a feat otherwise at a spell level higher. Or purchase it from a 17th level telepath) Or taking kineticist for the ability to choose elements at will.

Those two sound most like what you are looking for.

[trikkydik]

My only advice is abandon the idea of astral constructs. It will cause your DM so much headache.
1.) nobody knows how much an astral construct weighs.
2.) They require infinite study and they're stupid AF. Just summon a regular monster instead.

[Calthropstu]

My only advice is abandon the idea of astral constructs. It will cause your DM so much headache.
1.) nobody knows how much an astral construct weighs.
2.) They require infinite study and they're stupid AF. Just summon a regular monster instead.

Your silly physics have no place here. Begone!

[Calthropstu]

Astral construct does not have a weight listed. It is merely listed as astral matter.

So I would rule that it is likely less dense than normal creatures and thus lighter.

There is no "infinite research" required, everything you need to know is in the core rulebook and the psionics handbook.
You can add options to it through feats, and more feats expand upon it in the expanded psionics, but just going with the regular power is enough; the power is so infinitely useful, it's too good to ignore.

As for your other powers nd feats, I suggest choosing one of those (telepath or kineticest) and taking feats that enhance your chosen path. There's some unique and amazing prestige classes available. Thrallherd and metamind get some fantastic benefits, and if you're in a low op campaign, the uncarnate is interesting.

[trikkydik]

Astral construct does not have a weight listed. It is merely listed as astral matter.

So I would rule that it is likely less dense than normal creatures and thus lighter.

There is no "infinite research" required, everything you need to know is in the core rulebook and the psionics handbook.
You can add options to it through feats, and more feats expand upon it in the expanded psionics, but just going with the regular power is enough; the power is so infinitely useful, it's too good to ignore.

As for your other powers nd feats, I suggest choosing one of those (telepath or kineticest) and taking feats that enhance your chosen path. There's some unique and amazing prestige classes available. Thrallherd and metamind get some fantastic benefits, and if you're in a low op campaign, the uncarnate is interesting.

Troll incoming!!!!
Watch out guys...

Answer my question then.

"What happens when a psion uses telekinetic powers on an astral construct with no listed weight? Seeing as telekinesis can only affect objects weighing under 250 lbs."

[Calthropstu]

Troll incoming!!!!
Watch out guys...

Answer my question then.

"What happens when a psion uses telekinetic powers on an astral construct with no listed weight? Seeing as telekinesis can only affect objects weighing under 250 lbs."

Simple, you don't manifest it underneath something weighing 250 pounds.

Edit real answer: If it has NO weight, then it doesn't weigh less than 250 pounds.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Thanks for all the responses. Sorry I've been away from the boards, so I couldn't reply earlier!

It took a day to get any responses so here's what I came up with on my own. (I've only skimmed thru the handbook, which is great! Cause I'm only have access to the PFSRD, which doesn't list feats out in a convenient way).

Here's a link (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=932315) to the sheet if people wanna skim over it.

I went with Dual-Disciple because I did't really see the downside of it (lose some bonus feats at levels I won't ever get and class skills... ummm I've got a +7 Int Mod...). Plus I'm human and with the favored class bonus I have plenty of powers. I went with Shaper/Kinetcist. The Astral Construct power looked REALLY good, and considering I now know we'll have a gunslinger I'm thinking some extra melee would be great, weight issues be damned!

I went with Kineticst as my second choice because I'm kind of a sucker for blasting, plus Energy Missile seems nifty in conjunction with Rime Power. And Control Objects was too versatile a power for me to pass up (since I wasn't planning on taking the feats to get more powers known). Combat wise it's not great, but moving object up to 400 lbs is pretty neat.

I quickly abandoned the idea of being a party buffer. Too few and mostly self buffs. I'm not playing a gish.

Edit: Also, I feel like someone could argue that if something has no weight, then it's weight is equal to 0, thus 0 < 250. But really, it's a pretty simple decision for a DM to pick one kind of ruling, then stik with it.Not like it's going to derail the game.

[Calthropstu]

Thanks for all the responses. Sorry I've been away from the boards, so I couldn't reply earlier!

It took a day to get any responses so here's what I came up with on my own. (I've only skimmed thru the handbook, which is great! Cause I'm only have access to the PFSRD, which doesn't list feats out in a convenient way).

Here's a link (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=932315) to the sheet if people wanna skim over it.

I went with Dual-Disciple because I did't really see the downside of it (lose some bonus feats at levels I won't ever get and class skills... ummm I've got a +7 Int Mod...). Plus I'm human and with the favored class bonus I have plenty of powers. I went with Shaper/Kinetcist. The Astral Construct power looked REALLY good, and considering I now know we'll have a gunslinger I'm thinking some extra melee would be great, weight issues be damned!

I went with Kineticst as my second choice because I'm kind of a sucker for blasting, plus Energy Missile seems nifty in conjunction with Rime Power. And Control Objects was too versatile a power for me to pass up (since I wasn't planning on taking the feats to get more powers known). Combat wise it's not great, but moving object up to 400 lbs is pretty neat.

I quickly abandoned the idea of being a party buffer. Too few and mostly self buffs. I'm not playing a gish.

Edit: Also, I feel like someone could argue that if something has no weight, then it's weight is equal to 0, thus 0 < 250. But really, it's a pretty simple decision for a DM to pick one kind of ruling, then stik with it.Not like it's going to derail the game.

...
The down side is -1 manifester level on most powers. Which means you can't cast them when they first become available except with overchannel.

[MilleniaAntares]

My only advice is abandon the idea of astral constructs. It will cause your DM so much headache.
1.) nobody knows how much an astral construct weighs.
This (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/space-reach-threatened-area-templates) page has a chart titled "Creature Sizes". An astral construct most likely weighs within the range of a creature of their size category.


2.) They require infinite study and they're stupid AF. Just summon a regular monster instead.
I don't feel they're stupid and they do not require infinite study.

However, doing some prep work beforehand would be a good idea, to make picking options easier and having them apply to the stat block. As a mainly online player, I like to make a Google Sheet file for this purpose.

[TheFamilarRaven]

...
The down side is -1 manifester level on most powers. Which means you can't cast them when they first become available except with overchannel.

Aaaahahaha, for some reason I read that as "you manifest powers from your secondary discipline at -1". And even then, I was still thinking of Powers like spells. As in. "Oh, so I can use the power, but the variables involved will be -1 die." :smallredface:

Yeah, that's pretty rough. I'll look over things again, see if I can do with out dual-disciple, or if things could still work out with it.

[Calthropstu]

Look up expanded knowledge and psychic reformation.
The two combined literally give you access to anything you need on any given day.