What's your Core +1?

[BowStreetRunner]

Purely hypothetical: the DM allows you to use the Players Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual I and ONE OTHER BOOK to create your character. (Official 3.5 material only please.) What book do you choose and why?

[AnachroNinja]

Spell compendium. Gives me the greatest amount of additional options for the core classes IMO.

[Troacctid]

Unearthed Arcana. It has a wide variety of interesting options that increase diversity in a core game.

[Elkad]

If I want to play melee, Tome of Battle is the obvious choice.

[Bakkan]

Tome of Battle, without question.

[ekarney]

Oooh tough (plus)one.
Unearthed Arcana is a good one.
Any of the FR books.
Or maybe one of the "Complete __" books or similar to add some versatility.

Depends on the campaign and character I guess.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Thirding ToB, only way to get multiple flavors melee that can hang with casters played casually by knowledgable players in core +1.

[Name1]

...I think I'd go with Frostburn. I always liked the "It's X outside"-series, but my favorite has to be Frostburn. It's got nice spells too, I especially love the one that can grant the Cold-subtype.

[Big Fau]

Depends on what I'm playing:


Spellcaster: CArc, Spell Compendium, or CM (if Wizard, Druid, or Sorcerer, respectively).
Melee: Bo9S or PH2.
Everything else: MoI.


Honestly though, DMs who do this are just crippling noncasters a majority of the time. Yes casters get a LOT of toys, but noncasters need stuff like the MIC or XPH (for Fighters) or CC (for Rogues) to be truly relevant at the mid-optimization levels. A Ranger really wants both CAdv and CS so he can have Swift Hunter benefits, a Rogue would like to multiclass into Swashbuckler and take Daring Outlaw and have Craven, etc. Casters get the most benefit from the limitation.

[Âmesang]

If the LIVING GREYHAWK™ Gazetteer doesn't count, then either the Spell Compendium or Magic Item Compendium.

[ko_sct]

If it's core +1 for each character, it's gonna vary every time.

If it's the same core+1 for every future character i ever make, well damn, I don't know. Tome of battle ? Never got to play a martial adept for long, seems like I could get a lot of mileage out of it. Maybe spell compendium, really expend on the core casters.

Hum... that's a really hard question. I'll be honest, i really don't know. Can I print every pdf I can find online and attend a bookbinding class and make a really huge book? Cause I think that's my answer. I mean, the sheer number of books, class, feats, and spell are what make 3.P really attractive as a system.

[BowStreetRunner]

For myself, I'd like to try Heroes of Horror to see how Archivist stacks up in an otherwise Core Only environment. A lot of the really awesome stuff Archivist can do comes from the splat books, but I think there are still some gems in just Core + HoH.

[Eladrinblade]

Magic item compendium. I like core-only, and I think it adds the most while changing the least.

[Âmesang]

Can I print every pdf I can find online and attend a bookbinding class and make a really huge book? Cause I think that's my answer. I mean, the sheer number of books, class, feats, and spell are what make 3.P really attractive as a system.
I'm sure this is more of a joke answer, but if you were to do this please please please give it some sort of master index/table of contents; I've seen a 6,000+ page .pdf for 2nd Ed. AD&D that lacked such an index. Or page numbers. In fact each "book" was essentially retyped in WordPad in the most barebones way possible with little in the ways of editing.

…did I mention it was over 6,000 pages long?!

[Calthropstu]

I'm sure this is more of a joke answer, but if you were to do this please please please give it some sort of master index/table of contents; I've seen a 6,000+ page .pdf for 2nd Ed. AD&D that lacked such an index. Or page numbers. In fact each "book" was essentially retyped in WordPad in the most barebones way possible with little in the ways of editing.

…did I mention it was over 6,000 pages long?!

This sounds awesome.

[Âmesang]

I made a mistake. :smalltongue: I double checked, and it tops out at 5,986 pages. I was right about the lack of a table of contents. At least the Find function works…

[Calthropstu]

I think my +1 would be expanded psionics. I love the fluff and mechanics of psionic classes.

[Aetis]

PHB2 every time.

[RolkFlameraven]

The XPH unless I can convince the DM that "Core" means it that as well do to the SRD. If I pull that off then either PHB2 or the PGF (Player's guide to Faerun) depending on if we are playing in the Realms or not.

[Thurbane]

It pretty much entirely depends on the character I want to run, but as a general rule, I'd say PHBII. I like all the new classes (except Knight), some good new feats and lots of spells.

[Seppo87]

It's gonna be Tome of Battle for me. All in all, it's the most needed fix to the game.

TOB makes some core classes heavily overshadowed, in fact in this situation you're supposed to bypass them entirely, or use as a dip.

Crusader is the new Paladin but it can be multiclassed with Bard, Warblade cover Fighter and can be multiclassed with Barbarian for Rage, Swordsage covers either rogue, monk, or even a lv2 dip in Ranger;

That's it.

I would rather also add completes, compendiums and PHBII, but if I have to choose only one, this is it. Every archetype is fun to play, every class is strong and effective.

Play your core druid with no fear of making me feel bad at my job, I have maneuvers.

[FearlessGnome]

Tome of Magic for me. I love the Binder. I also love the fluff of the Shadowcaster, so if we allow the author's fix to count as part of the book, that's two more classes (each with not much support outside ToM) for the price of one.

[J-H]

Melee/martial: Tome of Battle
Spellcaster: Toss-up between Spell Compendium, CArcane, and CMage (reserve feats)

[Eldariel]

Sadly I have to spend the pick on Tome of Battle. Much as I'd like to include PHBII for Duskblades, Beguilers and a good selection of immediate action spells & Champions of Ruin for Rogue fix and Archery fixes, Tome of Battle just fixes the largest portion of the game.

[EyethatBinds]

Spell Compendium, then just play CoDzilla. I really don't like being stuck to a small number of books to pick from when the DM is clearly going to be dipping into the wider swathe, but their game means their rules.

If given the chance to play anything from all my books, I'll normally go fighter for the challenge. Straight fighter if I want hard mode.

[Rebel7284]

Spell compendium. Gives me the greatest amount of additional options for the core classes IMO.

Same for me.

[LordOfCain]

Gotta say Tome of Battle

[GrayDeath]

Depends, is the GM and all other players for that matter, limited to the same Books?

If yes I`d probably choose either ToB or MoI, for giving the most needed buffs/the most interesting new options.

If its me alone it depends too much on my concept to say, but probably either Spell Compendium or Unearthed Arcana.

[Sian]

While ToB is tempting, I'm going to say Magic of Incarnum ... Its the most dip-friendly book, and just about everyone can get something useful out of it.

[FearlessGnome]

While ToB is tempting, I'm going to say Magic of Incarnum ... Its the most dip-friendly book, and just about everyone can get something useful out of it.

There are fun things in MoI, but... Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see much in it that's useful for a dip past level 8 or so. All the things that would be good later on require you to bind the melds and/or invest some essentia, which you don't get without at least moderate investment.

[Cerefel]

I'd probably go with CArc because Warlock and Warmage are reasonably balanced with Barbarian, Rogue, and Ranger

[Erit]

Complete Warrior for martial campaigns, Complete Champion for crusades, Draconomicon for dragon-slaying, and Tome of Magic for anything else. Why Tome of Magic? Because the first two portions of that book give me everything I need to have fun no matter what the wizard does.

[Quertus]

Here's my top 10 5 however many list:

8. Sword and Fist. Lightning fist, expert tactician, and me say I hope you weren't too attached to your kidneys.

7. Bo9S. Because my cohort wants to feel cool, too.

6. Draconomicon - zombie dragons make memorable rides.

5. Savage Species. Half-Orgs (at +1 LA, no less), Illithid Savant, multi-handed weapons, custom monsters - so many toys. Endless variety.

4. Magic Item Compendium - everyone needs items. Especially important if I'm the one making items for the party. But I really should be able to make more items if I have access to more spells via...

3. Spell Compendium. Because, let's face it, I play spellcasters.

2. Unearthed Arcana - Arcane Spellcaster, Tainted Sorcerer, spell points - that's 85% of my build right there in one book! What could possibly be better than that?

1. Epic level handbook. That's right, suckers - enjoy capping out at level 20 while I hit the big times!

[HerbertWest]

I am a fan of Complete Divine, personally. I play a cleric or paladin 9/10 times in my table top games, so I usually can find something in there to help enhance the character. When not playing a divine class, I am partial to the Magic Item Compendium, for its broad applications.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Add my vote to Tome of Battle. It's self-contained enough that it won't annoy me too much. Playing with the EPH, I'd just be wishing for CPsi (the good bits), the Mind's Eye, Incarnum and Mind Mage... it's too tantalizing.

In general, I vote against book restrictions.

[AmberVael]

Purely hypothetical: the DM allows you to use the Players Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual I and ONE OTHER BOOK to create your character. (Official 3.5 material only please.) What book do you choose and why?

Spell compendium.

Its one of the weightier books, so when I smack the DM with it they'll know how much I disapprove.

[nyjastul69]

There isn't enough information here in order for me to make an informed decision. I'd the core + 1 for every player in the campaign, or for each individual player? Also, if it's core + 1 for each player, can other players access your +1?

Edit: The OP states that the +1 book can be used for character creation, but not necessarily for post creation character development.

[NerdHut]

I'd have to choose between Unearthed Arcana and Races of Stone.

UA gives a lot of mechanical options that I love, but I absolutely adore the flavor and world building content in RoS. Hell, my first three characters were (in order) a Dwarf, a Goliath, and a Stonechild.

[BowStreetRunner]

There isn't enough information here in order for me to make an informed decision. I'd the core + 1 for every player in the campaign, or for each individual player? Also, if it's core + 1 for each player, can other players access your +1?

Edit: The OP states that the +1 book can be used for character creation, but not necessarily for post creation character development.

It's a purely theoretical discussion, so feel free to answer your own questions however you like. Tell us how your choice would change if it was Core + the same 1 for every player versus Core + each player gets to pick their own +1. I honestly hadn't thought about limiting it to just creation and not development (how harsh if you can start a level 1 Binder but not use ToM when levelling up!!!), but there's room for discussion if you like.

Overall, as I was reading through the replies I had a couple of thoughts. First, the strength of every class in the game depends to some degree on the amount of support available in other books. This is pretty much a given. Some of the caster classes just get more and more powerful depending on the number of sources available, since almost every additional book has some new spells for them. On the other hand, there are classes that appear in only a single source with no additional support that might in fact be relatively stronger in a Core +1 environment than they would in a more open environment. So for me, it was not merely a question of whether there is a +1 that I would rather include than be stuck playing Core, but whether there were +1 classes that I might find more interesting to play in Core than in an open game.

I also noted that there were plenty of replies that amounted to adding books (Spell Compendium, etc.) that made the Core classes better. So here it was not an aversion to the core classes, but a desire to give them more power or versatility that informed their choice. There were also a lot of replies that felt Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords fixed the problem with the core melee classes.

[Flickerdart]

Spell Compendium. You can support almost any kind of character concept with just Cleric + the right domains. And once you give T1s options that are in the middle between "polymorph2win" and "Reflex half fire damage with SR:Yes" a lot of the problems associated with spellcasters go away because people start choosing weaker but more interesting spells.

[Jormengand]

I personally dislike the core+1 mentality of "Truenamer+samurai is clearly more OP than incantatrix+spelldancer because they appear in DIFFERENT BOOKS!!!!1!!!11!!!ONE!!!!", but I'd have to agree that it depends on what kind of character I wanted to play. Mundane? Probably take CW. Spellcaster? Spell compendium. Truenamer because truenamers are fun sometimes? Tome of magic (obviously). Want to play a gish? PHBII. Want to play a gish lamely disguised as a mundane? ToB. It's gonna depend what I'm after, really.

[Thurbane]

A lot of groups, mine included (except when I'm DMing*) often do core +1 for the sake of simplicity, rather than balance or power creep.

*I have a very small "ban list" in my games, and it's generally for setting flavour reasons or to avoid subsystems that none of the group are familiar with.

[Quertus]

A lot of groups, mine included (except when I'm DMing*) often do core +1 for the sake of simplicity, rather than balance or power creep.

*I have a very small "ban list" in my games, and it's generally for setting flavour reasons or to avoid subsystems that none of the group are familiar with.

So, how do you do it? Does the party vote on which one they all get to use, does each player get to pick their own one and use just that, or does each player get to add a +1 into the pot for everyone to use?

When I was forced down that route, it was that first option.

[NomGarret]

If we're playing pick your own version of the question, then here goes:

If it is Core+1, each player gets their own +1, and it only applies to the current game, then any number of books might apply. I'd probably go with ToB, ToM, or MoI, but any book with a self-contained functional class might work. Dragon Magic doesn't seem like a great pick for this exercise, unless you play a Dragonfire Adept.

If the pick applies to ALL players, or extends across multiple campaigns, I think I'd go with XPH. You get some versatile classes and several fun races.

These presume I don't have any ideas about the campaign setting beforehand. If the DM says the story will take place in a vast desert, I might just choose Sandstorm as my pick.

[Psyren]

XPH. And since Mind's Eye isn't actually a book, I'd get that too :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Assuming it's just for this one character because newb DM or something like that; I'd probably go with... Oriental Adventures. I'm in a shaman kind of mood lately.

If it's pick one extra forever with this group; presuming I don't just decline to play altogether (bold presumption), I'mma go with... Magic Item Compendium. I'm confident that I can do a -lot- with WBL to make up for shortcomings in an otherwise core character. That or XPH. Web articles aren't books and the DM -will- include the "Getting Wired" article if I have to pin his face to the floor with an arm-bar. (Exaggeration for effect, people.)

Ninja'd by psyren. LOL.

[Thurbane]

So, how do you do it? Does the party vote on which one they all get to use, does each player get to pick their own one and use just that, or does each player get to add a +1 into the pot for everyone to use?

When I was forced down that route, it was that first option.


Depends on the DM at the time. Most common is each player picks their own +1.

Sometimes our games are purely core only.

Sometimes they are core only + PHB2.

Honestly, for our relatively low-mid op group, these restrictions aren't really a problem at all. I tend to be more permissive than the others who DM in my group, so I usually open up a lot more books for use.

And if someone does have a massive issue with something they really want for their characters that isn't on the "approved" list, the DM will generally be pretty fir in judging on a case-by-case basis. I was planning on Running a Fighter 1/Rogue X in our core only + PHB 2 game: the concept was a heavily armored skillmonkey. This meant I couldn't use Evasion, so the DM let me take the Feign Death aiblity from Elder Evils (or is it EoE?).

[Zweisteine]

In general, I feel that Core+1 is essentially a more limited form of "ask the DM". I'd prefer core-only with other material allowed on a case-by-case basis, where the determination is made based on how well the option fits the character (and how likely it is to break the game). Core+1 is one of the worst limitations for creating balance, because it basically gives players different optimization limits before they even choose their classes.

But the question has been asked, so...


It depends on what I'll be doing.

If I was playing a primary caster (which I probably wouldn't be, except maybe Druid), I'd pick the Spell Compendium, hands down.

If I had somehow been convinced to play a skill monkey with Core+1, I might pick Dungeonscape to get at Factotum.

If I'm going to be the party's main melee, I'd pick the Tome of Battle. Or the Magic Item Compendium, if the ToB is off the table (with the caveat that I'd only pick the MiC if these are the only books we'll be playing with; it's a poor choice for character creation).

I also might pick books containing certain classes if I want to play something unusual. Off the top of my head, I might take the Tome of
Magic to be a binder, the Expanded Psionics Handbook if I want to be a psion, or Magic of Incarnum to be an incarnate.


If it was Core+1 per player, I might pick Unearthed Arcana. I'd be more likely to pick it if the Core+1 limitation is only for character creation and I want to play a core class (which is generally unusual for me).
If "web material" is counted as a book and someone else picked the ToB, I might pick it depending on what sort of adventure is going on.

[OldTrees1]

Warrior: Races of Stone (Goliath & Knockback) or Lords of Madness (Inhuman Reach & Starspawn)

Rogue: Dungeonscape (Encounter Traps)

Mage: Heroes of Horror (Dread Necromancer)