Help me make a Blacksmith fighter

[Rothgar Ironmit]

Hey guys so one of my dream characters ive always wanted to play was a Blacksmith/Fighter who makes his own weapons and armour and eventually learn to enchant his stuff.
How would you guys build this character?

[Calthropstu]

A blacksmith fighter?

An odd choice of opponent. Wouldn't ranger be better for this? (Favored enemy (blacksmith)... Is that a thing?)

edit: I am in an odd humor today.

[DrMotives]

Almost every class has access to craft, those that don't are probably oversights not intentional design choices. But in order to enchant your gear you need caster levels, just to qualify for the feats. So the character you're trying to build is really a gish. You'll probably want to emphasize the warrior over the caster part of the gish, but there are plenty that have full BAB and a caster level. Things as simple as ranger or paladin, but also duskblade or even psychic warrior are single-class out-of-the-box classes that can do this, although psychic warrior only has 3/4th BAB. You can also use a gish-themed PrC to open up the ability to enchant your stuff, like Suel Arcanomach.

[Calthropstu]

Almost every class has access to craft, those that don't are probably oversights not intentional design choices. But in order to enchant your gear you need caster levels, just to qualify for the feats. So the character you're trying to build is really a gish. You'll probably want to emphasize the warrior over the caster part of the gish, but there are plenty that have full BAB and a caster level. Things as simple as ranger or paladin, but also duskblade or even psychic warrior are single-class out-of-the-box classes that can do this, although psychic warrior only has 3/4th BAB. You can also use a gish-themed PrC to open up the ability to enchant your stuff, like Suel Arcanomach.

Unless it's pathfinder. There are rules for enchanting without being a caster.

[The Vagabond]

Unless it's pathfinder. There are rules for enchanting without being a caster.
To be fair, though, those rules are kinda poor. You have to have a minimum of five ranks under you, plus two feats. It seems much easier to just play a gish-like character than that. Though there might be a handful of archetypes that fit the bill.

Mechanics wise, you're probably better off as either an Artificer, if playing 3.5, or if permitted third party, The Artisan (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/drop-dead-studios/the-artisan).

With the Artificer, just look into Artificer without the Artifice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427628-Disregard-Money-Acquire-Buff-Spells-Artificers-without-the-Artifice) to make a solid melee artificer. With the Artisan, it's not that difficult to play with.

[smasher0404]

In addition to just making a gish character and getting the caster level needed through spellcasting like those above me have mentioned, there are also two prestige classes that can get you the ability to craft your own weapons and armor if you really just don't want to add spellcasting to your character build: Battlesmith(Races of Stone) and Ironsoul Forgemaster(Magic of Incarnum). Personally, I find Ironsoul Forgemaster more appealing, but it does require you to be able to shape a soulmeld and progresses meldshaping. While you do lose three points of base attack over the ten levels, you do gain chakra binds, and the ability to invest essentia into both your weapon and your armor to boost damage and gain damage reduction respectively.

[Eldariel]

In addition to just making a gish character and getting the caster level needed through spellcasting like those above me have mentioned, there are also two prestige classes that can get you the ability to craft your own weapons and armor if you really just don't want to add spellcasting to your character build: Battlesmith(Races of Stone) and Ironsoul Forgemaster(Magic of Incarnum). Personally, I find Ironsoul Forgemaster more appealing, but it does require you to be able to shape a soulmeld and progresses meldshaping. While you do lose three points of base attack over the ten levels, you do gain chakra binds, and the ability to invest essentia into both your weapon and your armor to boost damage and gain damage reduction respectively.

There's also Kensai [Complete Warrior], and Ancestral Relic [Book of Exalted Deeds]/Item Familiar [Unearthed Arcana] if you're happy with just a weapon to enchant. More of it though, yeah, you need something else.

[Red Fel]

Hey guys so one of my dream characters ive always wanted to play was a Blacksmith/Fighter who makes his own weapons and armour and eventually learn to enchant his stuff.
How would you guys build this character?

A blacksmith Fighter? Can he be a Dwarf? Oh, please say he's a Dwarf.

It's dangerous to go alone. Take this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344798-Soul-and-Steel-A-Guide-to-the-Ironsoul-Forgemaster-(WIP-PEACH))

The Ironsoul Forgemaster is a class designed around crafting and enhancing your own weapons and armor, and gaining powerful bonuses for doing so. The guide I linked above is a fairly extensive explanation of the class and how to use it. Enjoy it with my dark blessings.

[Chester]

Fighter 1 / Artificer X.

[Eldariel]

Fighter 1 / Artificer X.

Why the Fighter-level? Seriously though, Artificer does this amazingly out of the box. Well, Ironsoul Forgemaster is also cool and indeed, Incarnum works great to this effect so that's one option. Battlesmith is...well, it really doesn't do anything. Any purely martial build using the feats from PF is kinda meh, but certainly an easy way of doing the non-magical crafting.

Artificer though does great from level 1. Medium BAB so they're fine in combat already. Little dependence on casting stat. Infusions already enhance your items or work with enhancements (there are ones to change bonus types, elemental types, etc.) and crafting bonuses come built-in into the class. And can craft almost everything, bypassing some requirements in the process. Plus free XP for enhancement. It's just a really solid chassis that seems like precisely what the doctor ordered here. You can even get a Wand (or some repeatable source) of Divine Power and use Metamagic Item to Persist it eventually if you want to graduate into full BAB.

Even on level 1, giving your weapon Bane (whatever your enemy's type is) tends to be very respectable combined with a decent strength. 18 Str Artificer would be hitting at +6 for 1d8+8+2d6 with a Bane Longspear for instance. 32pb Earth Dwarf would get 18 Str/12 Dex/16 Con/14 Int/8 Wis/10 Cha (or 10 Dex/12 Cha if making a higher level character; once Mithril Armor and stat enhancements hit the table, lower starting Dex becomes less of an Achilles Heel).

[Rebel7284]

Isn't there a dwarf sub-race that can automatically craft stuff even without caster levels? Not sure what the LA is or if it's LA--

[Chester]

Why the Fighter-level?

Because
Hey guys so one of my dream characters ive always wanted to play was a Blacksmith/Fighter who makes his own weapons and armour and eventually learn to enchant his stuff. is what the OP said.

[Troacctid]

I, personally, would do it as an Ironsoul Forgemaster. Great class.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A blacksmith Fighter? Can he be a Dwarf? Oh, please say he's a Dwarf.

It's dangerous to go alone. Take this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344798-Soul-and-Steel-A-Guide-to-the-Ironsoul-Forgemaster-(WIP-PEACH))♪ ♫ It's dangerous to go alone! Take this! ♫ ♪ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m9QUoW5KnY)




(Warning: Do not watch at work.)

[Sayt]

There is also the Battlesmith from Races of stone. No magical entry request, first level gives CMAA, wis to damage with Warhammers that you made, and each level gives 3 effective CL for making magic weapons and armour. My first ever PC was a Fighter/Dwarf Paragon/Battlesmith/Pious Templar.

Unfortunately the back 3/5 of the class isn't great.

[Metahuman1]

If you really, really, REALLY want to go banana balls about it.


Main Class: Either Warblade or Crusader.

Dips: 1-2 levels in an Incarnum Class (Totemist or Incarnate.).

1-2 levels in Iron Soul Forgemaster.

1-2 levels in Battle Smith.

Next:

Crack open weapons of Legacy. Found a Legacy with a weapon/armor/Smithing Hammer/what-have-you, and make it a custom legacy item. Pick and advance for the rest of your career into Legacy Champion.

Enjoy your badass maneuver progression, and advancing both crafting ability's all at the same time, and a significant advancement to meld shaping on top of that.

Iceing on the cake:

Item Familiar feat. Even if only to give yourself disposable crafting XP.

[Eldariel]

Because is what the OP said.

A character who is a Fighter does not need class levels in a class named Fighter. Those two are completely unconnected.

[Metahuman1]

I'll second that. Heck, he's more of a fighter if he picks up something like Warblade or Psi-Warrior or even just barbarian with judicious use of AFC's/variants and sub levels.

[Eladrinblade]

Hey guys so one of my dream characters ive always wanted to play was a Blacksmith/Fighter who makes his own weapons and armour and eventually learn to enchant his stuff.
How would you guys build this character?

There is a feat in Pathfinder called Master Craftsman that is exactly what you want. I'm sure any reasonable DM will allow it.

Anyway, I'd play a dwarf. Try to get something like 14 intelligence, which will give you 4 maxed skills. Obviously you'll want craft weapons and craft armor, but if you get that feat, you can also craft wondrous items via ...I dunno, weaving and gemcutting and leatherworking, probably. Also bowyer if you want a good bow (otherwise craft weapons for crossbows or throwing weapons). However, I like my fighters to have climb/jump/swim/intimidate, and sometimes handle animal for scent tracking, moving long distance quickly, and eventually flying (also help in combat). Intimidate before an ally casts a spell with a saving throw is sometimes your best use of time.

If you're taking straight fighter all the way, here's the feats (in core) that I take for fighters:

power attack, cleave, PBS, combat expertise, spiked chain prof, imp overrun, imp trip,
quick draw, great cleave, imp disarm, dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind attack,
combat reflexes, imp bull rush, precise shot, imp precise shot, far shot, blind fight
(if you were to multiclass to monk, you could easily pick up improved unarmed strike, improved grapple, and combat reflexes in 2 levels)

Spiked chains are undoubtedly the best weapon in core, but they are kinda cheesy. Tower shields are an often overlooked option, especially if you use the FAQ interpretation for them. You can always get an animated tower shield if you really want two hands. Quick-drawing a whip/net/bola is a good way to hinder distant enemies in a fight, or bring down fliers. Precise shot and improved precise shot work with reach weapons against non-adjacent targets. Whirlwind attack is great if you are enlarged and using a spiked-chain against a large number of enemies. Improved Overrun and Improved Trip are kinda redundant with each other.

That's several more feats than you can possibly take, and if you take 2 or 3 of master craftsman, you'll have to drop that many more from this list.

Remember that broken magic weapons/armor can be repaired for 1/5 their crafting price.

[Thurbane]

Isn't there a dwarf sub-race that can automatically craft stuff even without caster levels? Not sure what the LA is or if it's LA--

I'd say you're thinking of Midgard Dwarf (Frostburn p.124): They get Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Forge Ring as bonus feats, and automatically possess the reqs to create any items of those type.

The downside is 8 RHD and LA +4...so pretty much only useful for an NPC.

[Earthwalker]

If this is pathfinder then fighter is all that is needed. If you want something low OP and simple.

At fighter 9 you gain access to the advanced armour training. One option nabs you the two crafting feats meaning you can make magical arms and armour. Seems to fit what you are going for fine.

Of course it means you need to be playing Pathfinder and using the advanced armour training stuff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Fighters gain Craft as a class skill, but you'll have to nix Profession, unless you cross-class or multiclass.

[weckar]

So Ironsoul and Battlesmith actually stack properly? Would they perhaps be worth a stoneblessed entry?

[Pyromancer999]

So Ironsoul and Battlesmith actually stack properly? Would they perhaps be worth a stoneblessed entry?

They do. Both specify they stack with other caster levels. Granted, there is room to judge that they don't, given that Battlesmith just says "other caster levels", which some might say do not technically count. However, Ironsoul Forgemaster says that it stacks with "other caster levels that apply", so all should be good on stacking those.

So yes, X 5/Battlesmith 5/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10 would be a 45th level spellcaster for the purposes of forging Magic Items and Armor, but only those.

Also: Stoneblessed tends to not be worth it, however early you enter, as it does take three levels out of your build without much compensation, so it should really only be taken when one really needs to start as a non-Goliath/Dwarven/Gnome race. In this case, it wouldn't give you much of a solid class base to work off of(either Meldshaping class 2 or Meldshaping class 1/Other Class 1). So earliest possible entry would most likely be Incarnate or X 2(must contain at least one level of meldshaping)/Stoneblessed 3/Battlesmith 5/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10. One could substitute 3 levels of Battlesmith for something else, but the point is you could be doing something better with those 3 Stoneblessed levels.

Edit: Also, if going to Battlesmith 3 or above, Barbarian levels are pretty good. This is because of the 3rd level ability, which allows you to ignore fatigue and exhaustion effects for a number of hours equal to your class level. So after that, you can rage without being affected by exhaustion.

[Red Fel]

So Ironsoul and Battlesmith actually stack properly? Would they perhaps be worth a stoneblessed entry?

Several things.

First, I'm not convinced they stack, based on the "you can't gain the same benefit from an identical source" rule. Both classes have an (Ex) ability called "Secrets of the Forge." This ability grants the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, and treats your CL for crafting as triple your PrC level, stacking with other CL. The abilities are identical, which in my book leads to them not stacking.

Second, Battlesmith is an inferior class. IF is a 10-level class (total of 30 CL for crafting) with Incarnum features and special bonuses to shield (energy resistance) armor (DR) and weapon (damage and cool daze effect). Battlesmith gets Wis-to-damage, which probably won't be much; +2 sacred AC bonus, which is kind of pathetic when you're already wearing heavy armor; the ability to ignore fatigue and exhaustion, which is only relevant to Barbarians; and a 1/day ability to take half damage from a single weapon attack, which is kind of absurd, and not in a good way. It also gets only 5 class levels, for 15 CL for crafting, as compared to IF's 10/30.

Battlesmith is fine if all you want is a quick crafting buff. But its abilities are unimpressive. IF gives you progression and abilities that are worthwhile and awesome.

Third, as Pyromancer mentions, Stoneblessed isn't worth it. If you want to play one of these classes, don't waste three levels getting garbage class features, just play a Dwarf. My guide has a comprehensive list of Dwarf subraces to choose from; go pick one you like.

[Pyromancer999]

Several things.

First, I'm not convinced they stack, based on the "you can't gain the same benefit from an identical source" rule. Both classes have an (Ex) ability called "Secrets of the Forge." This ability grants the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, and treats your CL for crafting as triple your PrC level, stacking with other CL. The abilities are identical, which in my book leads to them not stacking.


After taking a second look at it, yeah, doesn't seem those stack.


Second, Battlesmith is an inferior class. IF is a 10-level class (total of 30 CL for crafting) with Incarnum features and special bonuses to shield (energy resistance) armor (DR) and weapon (damage and cool daze effect). Battlesmith gets Wis-to-damage, which probably won't be much; +2 sacred AC bonus, which is kind of pathetic when you're already wearing heavy armor; the ability to ignore fatigue and exhaustion, which is only relevant to Barbarians; and a 1/day ability to take half damage from a single weapon attack, which is kind of absurd, and not in a good way. It also gets only 5 class levels, for 15 CL for crafting, as compared to IF's 10/30.

Battlesmith is fine if all you want is a quick crafting buff. But its abilities are unimpressive. IF gives you progression and abilities that are worthwhile and awesome.


Battlesmith 3 isn't bad for a dwarf who rages and it does extend the fluff of being a combatant smith, although if you can get access to it, I remember there's a suit of armor that can give you immunity to fatigue and exhaustion at the later levels.

Although, if you want to rage as a dwarf, Battlerager to finish off your build might be a bit better, if you have the feats to spare. It gives you a bunch of extra rage uses, and also some bonus feats and extras besides.



Third, as Pyromancer mentions, Stoneblessed isn't worth it. If you want to play one of these classes, don't waste three levels getting garbage class features, just play a Dwarf. My guide has a comprehensive list of Dwarf subraces to choose from; go pick one you like.

Indeed. Also forgot to note one advantage that Battlesmith has over Ironsoul Forgemaster: It is noted in the adaptation section that a DM might want to consider letting a non-dwarf take it, as it is really just about being a blacksmith that also fights. So this might be the road to go if you really don't want to be a dwarf. Combine with Artificer to boost your effective caster level when creating magic weapons. For particular fluff and going non-dwarf, Warforged Artificer would be a good lead-in, especially since the 4th level substitution level for it lets you get extra mileage out of your craft reserve when crafting magic items and armor. Warforged Artificer 4/Other class with at least average BAB 3/Battlesmith 5 also lets you be a 21st level caster for magic weapons.

That said, I agree with Red Fel that Ironsoul Forgemaster has the better progression, class features, and fluff.

[ShurikVch]

How about this variant?:
1 Fighter; Combat Casting
2 Fighter; purchase spellcasting services, ask for arcane variant of Imbue with Spell Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imbueWithSpellAbility.htm) with some abjuration spell
3 Fighter; Craft Wondrous Item
4 Fighter
5 Fighter
6 Abjurant Champion; Craft Magic Arms And Armor
7 Abjurant Champion
8 Abjurant Champion
9 Abjurant Champion; Craft Construct
10 Abjurant Champion //Note: because, thanks to Martial Arcanist CF, your CL now = BAB, from that level you aren't depend on Imbue with Spell Ability to do your stuff anymore
11 Fighter(?)
12 Fighter(?); Forge Ring
13 Fighter(?)
14 Fighter(?)
15 Fighter(?); Craft Rod
16 Fighter(?)
17 Fighter(?)
18 Fighter(?); Craft Scepter

[Pyromancer999]

How about this variant?:
1 Fighter; Combat Casting
2 Fighter; purchase spellcasting services, ask for arcane variant of Imbue with Spell Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imbueWithSpellAbility.htm) with some abjuration spell
3 Fighter; Craft Wondrous Item
4 Fighter
5 Fighter
6 Abjurant Champion; Craft Magic Arms And Armor
7 Abjurant Champion
8 Abjurant Champion
9 Abjurant Champion; Craft Construct
10 Abjurant Champion //Note: because, thanks to Martial Arcanist CF, your CL now = BAB, from that level you aren't depend on Imbue with Spell Ability to do your stuff anymore
11 Fighter(?)
12 Fighter(?); Forge Ring
13 Fighter(?)
14 Fighter(?)
15 Fighter(?); Craft Rod
16 Fighter(?)
17 Fighter(?)
18 Fighter(?); Craft Scepter

I don't think this would really work. Even if an arcane variant of Imbue with Spell Ability existed and one were to count that as being the character's own caster level, it still wouldn't have any way of crafting much, if anything, due to not having a way to make up for lack of spells known(as they do not have even one).

Also, the character the OP is looking for is a martial blacksmith, which does not entirely fit all the item creation feats, and this build also does not leave room for any non-fighter-bonus-feat feats, which are important to have as feats can reduce crafting time and expense, not to mention that not all feats useful in combat are fighter bonus feats.

[ShurikVch]

I don't think this would really work. Even if an arcane variant of Imbue with Spell Ability existedYes, it exist: Arcane Disciple feat, Family or Magic domain; also, there are Wyrm Wizard, Recaster, Rainbow Servant, Eldritch Master, and any other possible ways to add any spell to your list (also, Ring of Theurgy)
and one were to count that as being the character's own caster levelWhy it wouldn't?
Isn't "character's own caster level" a CL with which she can cast spells (or use SLA)?
AFAIK, there is no RAW which forbid it

it still wouldn't have any way of crafting much, if anything, due to not having a way to make up for lack of spells known(as they do not have even one).Ahem...

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect..

Also, the character the OP is looking for is a martial blacksmith, which does not entirely fit all the item creation feats:smallconfused: Do you mean OP is wrong or what?

and this build also does not leave room for any non-fighter-bonus-feat feats, which are important to have as feats can reduce crafting time and expense, not to mention that not all feats useful in combat are fighter bonus feats.OK, I may agree with it, but OP just don't specified much

[Pyromancer999]

Yes, it exist: Arcane Disciple feat, Family or Magic domain; also, there are Wyrm Wizard, Recaster, Rainbow Servant, Eldritch Master, and any other possible ways to add any spell to your list (also, Ring of Theurgy)Why it wouldn't?

Good point, could through that.



Isn't "character's own caster level" a CL with which she can cast spells (or use SLA)?

One could interpret it as not counting due to the spells not coming from the character's own class levels. Not saying it is inherently incorrect to assume that it would count on its own, but it can also be interpreted as how I have just mentioned.


AFAIK, there is no RAW which forbid it
Ahem...

Yes, there is that. But it is quite an investmemt in gold, as you'd need a spell completion item for each spell you lack. It is viable, but does not fit with the archetype of the magic blacksmith. Battlesmith and Ironsoul Forgemaster do a better job of this with wider versatility, as well as with no additional cost in gold.


.
:smallconfused: Do you mean OP is wrong or what?

Please clarify.


OK, I may agree with it, but OP just don't specified much

Although I agree with you that the last part("being able to enchant his stuff") is vague, potions and scrolls at least do not quite fit with a blacksmith enchanting items he makes.

[ShurikVch]

Please clarify.This part:
Also, the character the OP is looking for is a martial blacksmith, which does not entirely fit all the item creation feats.

Although I agree with you that the last part("being able to enchant his stuff") is vague, potions and scrolls at least do not quite fit with a blacksmith enchanting items he makes.Please, re-check the build.
Do you see "potions and scrolls"?
Rings, rods, and scepters are usually made of some metal, and Craft Wondrous Item is just a prerequisite for Craft Construct, which fit in nicely - because many kinds of Constructs are metal-based

[Pyromancer999]

This part:.
Please, re-check the build.
Do you see "potions and scrolls"?
Rings, rods, and scepters are usually made of some metal, and Craft Wondrous Item is just a prerequisite for Craft Construct, which fit in nicely - because many kinds of Constructs are metal-based

Ah, made a mistake. Think I mixed it up with another thing I was looking at.

Concerning that build, though, do maintain that Battlesmith and/or Ironsoul Forgemaster does the job better considering it involves considerably less gold, as well as freeing up more feats for the player's choice, in addition to being less contingent on the DM's interpretation and ability to control.

If you go up against a spellthief or anything able to inflict negative levels on that build, unless you spend a whole lot more gold on top of what you've already spent to get spells through Imbue with Spell Ability(for which you must also pay for both the casting of that spell as well as the spells you're imbued with each time). If the character were to lose the spells they had gained through these means or others, they would automatically not qualify for Abjurant Champion nor any of their crafting feats. If only seeking to cancel out the Abjurant Champion levels, ability drain or damage to the appropriate casting stat is more than enough to cancel that out, as there's nothing that says that ability to cast the spell is reliant upon the original caster's casting score, that is only for the original caster's level. Sure, you can seek to be imbued again, but it makes it really easy to undo a lot of your character's feats and abilities, especially at higher levels, and is also a major gold drain. Even that assumes that your DM allows for the existence of such a caster and more than one to accomodate your character.

[Troacctid]

Indeed. Also forgot to note one advantage that Battlesmith has over Ironsoul Forgemaster: It is noted in the adaptation section that a DM might want to consider letting a non-dwarf take it, as it is really just about being a blacksmith that also fights. So this might be the road to go if you really don't want to be a dwarf.
Ironsoul Forgemaster has the same adaptation, so it's not really an advantage for Battlesmith.

[ShurikVch]

BTW, How about them Shadowsmith PrC from the Tome of Magic?

[Pyromancer999]

Ironsoul Forgemaster has the same adaptation, so it's not really an advantage for Battlesmith.

Ah. I would recommend just Ironsoul Forgemaster then.


BTW, How about them Shadowsmith PrC from the Tome of Magic?

It's a spiffy PrC that I love, but doesn't let you craft anything out of metal. If you are thinking of using it to qualify for crafting feats, though, it does let you cast mysteries as arcane spells and I think mysteries can count as either arcane or divine regardless. It gives you a caster level at any rate, so it could be used to qualify for item creation feats. One can also use Practiced Spellcaster to up the level to qualify for item creation feats faster. Can also be technically used to qualify for Abjurant Champion if you still wanted to do that, although you'd have to be at least Shadowsmith 5 to do that. Plus, the abilities are spot-on for a mystic smith, if the shadow fluff is not minded. Not the worst plan. Still a gold drain, but does work a lot smoother.