Steven UnIVerse: 4shadowing [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-04, 06:57 PM

Nobody else was doing it. so i did!... Lazily!

This is the thread for discussing Rebecca Sugar's show about a conspiracy of sapient space rocks who take over America. Sneeple may be involved.

Keep Beach City weird!

http://www.trbimg.com/img-52770f5b/turbine/la-et-st-steven-universe-20131104-001/600

Threads:

Steven Universe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?326097-Steven-Universe)
Steven 2niverse: Made of Love (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429815-Steven-2niverse-Made-of-Love)
Steven Univ3rse: The Great and Lovable Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?489590-Steven-Univ3rse-The-Great-and-Lovable-Thread)
Steven UnIVerse: 4Shadowing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499435-Steven-UnIVerse-4shadowing&p=21170141#post21170141)

Sholos

2016-09-04, 07:53 PM

For the alignment discussion, I'd say they are:

Pearl - LG
Rose, Garnet, Amythest - CG
Peridot - LN (slowly leaning towards Good)
Lapis - TN
Jasper, Rubies, Yellow Diamond - LE

Not really site where to put Bismuth. She's got her heart in the right plane, but pretty extreme in the methods she's okay with to get there.

Admiral Squish

2016-09-04, 08:03 PM

New thread! Tagging for easy finding later.

Hmm... As for alignments, would we just want to do the gems, or everyone in beach city?

DigoDragon

2016-09-04, 08:08 PM

Just watched Garnet's Universe for the first time and wow did I ever have fun with that one. :smallbiggrin:

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-04, 08:16 PM

New thread! Tagging for easy finding later.

Hmm... As for alignments, would we just want to do the gems, or everyone in beach city?
Placing the human characters in alignments is pretty difficult, but I suppose we could try.

For the alignment discussion, I'd say they are:

Pearl - LG
Rose, Garnet, Amythest - CG
Peridot - LN (slowly leaning towards Good)
Lapis - TN
Jasper, Rubies, Yellow Diamond - LE

Not really site where to put Bismuth. She's got her heart in the right plane, but pretty extreme in the methods she's okay with to get there.
I'd probably argue that Garnet is more NG than CG. She's fine with rules and order in its place, but not obsessed with them. She breaks certain rules but also tends to maintain others.

And Jasper isn't really Lawful past her serving of a Lawful leader. She pretty much starts instantly breaking the rules and taboos of her homeland (fusing with other gems) as soon as it serves her purpose, and then just runs around trying to kill/fuse with anyone she can, driven by revenge. Not particularly Lawful behaviour. And Bismuth is a tricky one, because in D&D it's not immoral to kill people. She's pretty definitely Chaotic, though.

I agree with the others, though.

Keltest

2016-09-04, 08:24 PM

Ahhh, that new thread smell.

I must also concur that Garnet is more NG than CG. She isn't afraid to try new things and break out of the status quo, but she can only be pushed so far in that respect.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-04, 08:28 PM

Ahhh, that new thread smell.

I must also concur that Garnet is more NG than CG. She isn't afraid to try new things and break out of the status quo, but she can only be pushed so far in that respect.
Possibly because Sapphire seems more LG while Ruby tends towards the CG. Combine them, and what do you get?

Sholos

2016-09-04, 08:33 PM

Hmm, on further thought, agreed that Jasper is more Chaotic than Lawful. I could see Garnet as NG; Greg is as well. Connie I think falls neatly into LG.

Flickerdart

2016-09-04, 10:02 PM

Hmm, on further thought, agreed that Jasper is more Chaotic than Lawful. I could see Garnet as NG; Greg is as well. Connie I think falls neatly into LG.

"Fighting is my life" is pretty Lawful.

Draconium

2016-09-04, 10:17 PM

"Fighting is my life" is pretty Lawful.

I disagree. The way I see it, "Fighting is my life" basically sums up 99.9% of all adventurers, regardless of alignment. And the other 0.1% are lying. :smalltongue:

Snowbluff

2016-09-04, 10:28 PM

I'd put Jasper at LN. She's just fighting for loyalty in the end. The worst "bad" stuff she did was really a misunderstanding, due to her technician and informant being separated from her.

Ravian

2016-09-04, 10:31 PM

And Bismuth is a tricky one, because in D&D it's not immoral to kill people. She's pretty definitely Chaotic, though.

I'd argue that different standards of morality apply in this case. It's somewhat difficult to advocate for the permanent destruction of a being when it could be just as easily sealed up in a bubble until they can be dealt with more fairly.

Not to mention, I'd say that Bismuth is a perfect example of someone moving from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Neutral. She strongly dislikes the system that Homeworld created. That's fine given that Homeworld's system is not a good one, but she lets her hatred get the better of her in creating a weapon designed specifically to kill when other more merciful options present themselves.

In D&D she might still be considered Good (if somewhat fanatic), but I'd say in the context of Steven Universe she's fallen off the edge into Neutrality.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-04, 10:34 PM

I'd put Jasper at LN. She's just fighting for loyalty in the end. The worst "bad" stuff she did was really a misunderstanding, due to her technician and informant being separated from her.
I don't really see loyalty as a necessarily Lawful trait, though. Jasper is motivated by vengeance, and is willing to break important taboos and ignore any semblance of command structure to get there. Unlike Peridot, there's no effort to try and communicate with her home- she just wants to fight. That really seems Chaotic to me.

Snowbluff

2016-09-04, 10:58 PM

I don't really see loyalty as a necessarily Lawful trait, though. Jasper is motivated by vengeance, and is willing to break important taboos and ignore any semblance of command structure to get there. Unlike Peridot, there's no effort to try and communicate with her home- she just wants to fight. That really seems Chaotic to me.

True, she did break orders to bring Rose back to homeworld (which didn't violate command structure; as the commander of the mission is was her call to make), but that might be a personal code rather than adherence to lawfulness.

Keltest

2016-09-04, 11:19 PM

True, she did break orders to bring Rose back to homeworld (which didn't violate command structure; as the commander of the mission is was her call to make), but that might be a personal code rather than adherence to lawfulness.

The difference between adhering to a personal code and adhering to a chain of command is minimal as far as alignment is concerned, as long as youre consistent about it. I would peg Jasper as neutral because while she clearly respects Homeworld's authority, she is also using it to justify following her own agenda rather than, say, trying to report back and figure out what to do next.

Phobia

2016-09-04, 11:51 PM

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-04, 11:53 PM

True, she did break orders to bring Rose back to homeworld (which didn't violate command structure; as the commander of the mission is was her call to make), but that might be a personal code rather than adherence to lawfulness.
She doesn't appear to have a personal code either, though. She's initially against fusion, then does it as soon as she thinks she might lose. She has no consistent sense of honour or rules. She just fights. I could see her as Neutral or Chaotic, but she's never indicated any Lawfulness beyond serving a Lawful master.

Snowbluff

2016-09-05, 01:04 AM

She doesn't appear to have a personal code either, though. She's initially against fusion, then does it as soon as she thinks she might lose.

Point of order, she only disapproves of fusion due to societal pressure.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-05, 01:21 AM

Point of order, she only disapproves of fusion due to societal pressure.
But that's my point- she doesn't conform to societal rules or expectations for long, and doesn't appear to have a personal code. No exterior or interior law.

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-05, 12:53 PM

So this is something I've been thinking lately. You know how Steven Universe loves to reference anime? Well Alexandrite is pretty big and it's just three (four) gems, if they add in Steven they'd probably get something the size of the temple fusion. Add in three more like Lapis, Peridot, and Jasper (Bismuth?) and you'd probably get something even huger. How many gems would it take then to become as big as the galaxy?! Every gem Steven turns good?!

If that's what you want to find out, there's a cluster downstairs...

More seriously, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between the size of the fusion and the number of Gems in it:

Both the Ruby fusions we have seen seem to be about the same size (3-way and 5-way, but admittedly homogeneous, which may play by different rules).
Malachite and Alexandrite are about the same size (2-way vs 4-way).
Jasper plus the corrupted Gem didn't seem to be any bigger than Jasper herself.

That said, the Cluster would probably be quite big...

On the question of alignments, surely the only alignments are face-centered cubic and body-centered cubic?

(Ah, those far off memories of my Materials Science lectures. Why can't I suppress them?)

Fralex

2016-09-06, 11:51 AM

Bismuth is Lawful Good in the same way that Miko was Lawful Good.

Also, it is interesting to note that in the first Steven Universe book, the one that's a guide to the Gems, lists each one's alignment as (true to the show's philosophy that there are no true villains) either "Homeworld" or "the Crystal Gems." Although I'd have put Lapis as "neutral" rather than "Homeworld," but I guess the book came out before that was completely clear.

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-06, 01:56 PM

Although I'd have put Lapis as "neutral" rather than "Homeworld," but I guess the book came out before that was completely clear.

The book is not entirely inaccurate - Up until the time she got back to Homeworld she was maintaining an alignment (however wavering) to Homeworld, It isn't really 'till Season 3 that she adopts a more neutral stance (although arguably she started to flip around Jailbreak in S1, we just don't see enough of her in S2 to determine alignment).

Tutorix

2016-09-06, 01:56 PM

Bismuth is Lawful Good in the same way that Miko was Lawful Good.

Interesting parallel. Both Miko and Bismuth were loyal to a cause. Both demonized the enemies of this cause (what Bismuth called "those upper crusts"), thus justifying taking any measures against them. Both ended up rebelling against their leaders. I'd put them both down as chaotic neutral in the end.

I'm not sure Jasper is as lawful as she claims to be. Her first loyalty is to a deceased individual, so that's not constraining her behavior. I think her fusing with Lapis would have been against Yellow Diamond's wishes. Her main characteristic is that she loves to fight, so I'd put her down as neutral evil.

Which is not to say she cannot be redeemed! Both Bismuth and Jasper will one day re-join society, I hope.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-06, 06:16 PM

Bismuth is Lawful Good in the same way that Miko was Lawful Good.
Not really quite the same, though. Both were fanatically devoted to destroying their enemies, yes, but Miko justified her actions as 'they're evil criminals' while Bismuth justified hers with 'they're dominating tyrants'. Miko opposed Evil (theoretically) while Bismuth opposed oppressive Law. Much more Chaotic than Lawful. She fought against the system, Miko fought for the system.

She also doesn't appear to have a strong personal code, or abide by anyone else's rules. She's loyal, yes, but loyalty isn't a Lawful trait. It's not even a Good trait.

Silfir

2016-09-06, 07:30 PM

Jasper is Fighty Neutral. Well, probably with tendencies towards Fighty Evil.

What? You didn't know alignment had three dimensions? Good - Neutral - Evil, Lawful - Neutral - Chaotic, Peaceful - Neutral - Fighty? It's how you distinguish Goku from Gohan: Goku is Fighty Good, but Gohan is Peaceful Good.

Steven is probably Peaceful Good as well, but that likely doesn't hold true for Garnet, Amethyst and Pearl. Amethyst in particular is definitely Fighty; probably Fighty Chaotic Good or something. Garnet is a fusion of a Peaceful and a Fighty gem and so ends up Neutral, but in a fusion with Amethyst, another Fighty Gem, she becomes the very Fighty Sugilite. Pearl, meanwhile, is at least Neutral on that scale, if not Fighty herself, despite Pearls in general being Always Peaceful. Considering she sympathises with the medieval concept of being a knight for another's cause, which is a Lawful Fighty concept, that's what I'd peg her as.

Well, at least three dimensions I should say. In truth, alignment has as many dimensions as there are guiding character motivations. It just becomes progressively harder to draw charts the more you take into account.

I've long wondered why people stuck two only two dimensions of alignment, then complained about the alignment system being two-dimensional. Why not expand from there, and exponentially raise the potential for heated aligment debates?

(I've been thinking about it a while - Peaceful might not be the best name. It's simply the opposite of Fighty - a character that resents involving themselves in physical confrontation. Peaceful Evil would be a sneaky bastard who maneuvers others into doing the fighting for them and abhors the mere thought of getting involved themselves. Cowardly might be more accurate, but also has negative connotations that are ever so slightly unfair. A Peaceful Good - or Cowardly Good - character may still end up fighting if it's for the sake of doing the right thing.)

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-06, 07:34 PM

Not really quite the same, though. Both were fanatically devoted to destroying their enemies, yes, but Miko justified her actions as 'they're evil criminals' while Bismuth justified hers with 'they're dominating tyrants'. Miko opposed Evil (theoretically) while Bismuth opposed oppressive Law. Much more Chaotic than Lawful. She fought against the system, Miko fought for the system.

She also doesn't appear to have a strong personal code, or abide by anyone else's rules. She's loyal, yes, but loyalty isn't a Lawful trait. It's not even a Good trait.

As I see it this shouldn't be an argument between good and neutral, but neutral and evil. I don't remember even one notable "good" thing she did or said, the best was her neutral hatred of Homeworld's control over her. Even based on her actions at her introduction I would peg her at best neutral. But her willingness to kill her friends upon any resistance to her wishes screams chaotic evil to me. She never even expressed any actual care for others that would typically be viewed as good, only caring about those she fought alongside, and we all know that having friends does not make a villain a hero.

So overall I'm putting her down as chaotic neutral, leaning strongly towards evil.

EDIT: Talking on Bismuth, realized I didn't make that clear.

Friv

2016-09-06, 11:20 PM

As I see it this shouldn't be an argument between good and neutral, but neutral and evil. I don't remember even one notable "good" thing she did or said, the best was her neutral hatred of Homeworld's control over her. Even based on her actions at her introduction I would peg her at best neutral. But her willingness to kill her friends upon any resistance to her wishes screams chaotic evil to me. She never even expressed any actual care for others that would typically be viewed as good, only caring about those she fought alongside, and we all know that having friends does not make a villain a hero.

So overall I'm putting her down as chaotic neutral, leaning strongly towards evil.

EDIT: Talking on Bismuth, realized I didn't make that clear.

What makes you think Bismuth is willing to kill her friends for any resistance?

The only person she tries to kill is Steven, and she tries to kill Steven because she decides that he really is Rose Quartz, and she's mocking Bismuth by pretending to be this kid, after having betrayed her, beaten her up, locked her in a box and then lied to everyone about what happened.

All of the evidence is that Rose hit first, the first time around. Bismuth was very confused and disoriented when she de-bubbled.

endoperez

2016-09-07, 01:27 AM

A thought:

Bismuth, a crafter turned warrior, is an excellent shapeshifter and good at fighting with it. Amethyst, a warrior substandard at fighting but great at shape shifting, is having an identity crisis and looking at ways to improve herself.

If Bismuth returns,it might include her bonding with Amethyst, & Amethyst growing some way. Learning to morph while fighting, or even becoming a crafter.

Thoughts?

LaZodiac

2016-09-07, 02:14 AM

Serenity

2016-09-07, 04:51 AM

Lawful Good: Pearl, although she can shade towards LN, as there have been times where her devotion to Rose's cause has outweighed her actual understanding of what the cause is; Sapphire; Kiki; Connie Maheswaran; probaly Sadie--some thoughtless actions regarding her relationship with Lars aside, she's generally by-the-book and compassionate.
Neutral Good: Steven Universe and Rose Quartz, the all-loving heroes; Stevonnie; Garnet, as a fusion between LG Sapphire and CG Ruby. That probably puts Opal here as well--and Alexandrite, technically, though she doesn't really have a seperate personality.
Chaotic Good: Amethyst, Ruby, Sardonyx, Smokey Quartz; Vidalia; Nanefua Pizza. Not sure if Greg goes here or at Neutral Good. The Cool Kids land in this vicinity, I think, though Jenny might trend more CN.
Lawful Neutral: Smol!Peridot; Dr. and Mr. Maheswaran; Peedee Fryman; Kofi Pizza; probably Mayor Dewey. Presumably the average alignment for Homeworld Pearls.
True Neutral: Lapis Lazuli; Mr. Fryman, Harold Smiley, Beach City adults at large.
Chaotic Neutral: Lion; Bismuth; Sugilite; Lars; Ronaldo Fryman; Corrupted Gems and Gem Shard Monsters
Lawful Evil: Original Flavor Peridot; Yellow Diamond and presumably the Great Diamond Authority as a whole; Yellow Pearl, who seems to take smug satisfaction in using her position to harangue other gems; the Ruby Squad by virtue of being dedicated (if dim-witted) soldiers of Homeworld.
Neutral Evil: Marty, Kevin
Chaotic Evil: Jasper; Malachite (for what time she existed as her own 'unit' in Super Watermelon Island); and, of course, ONION.

Snowbluff

2016-09-07, 08:24 AM

Chaotic Evil: Malachite (for what time she existed as her own 'unit' in Super Watermelon Island)

You take that back Malakitty is a precious watermelon! T.T
http://orig03.deviantart.net/26a1/f/2016/057/4/0/4034b174b02241596f6c1dcedbbd7202-d9t8cbr.gif

Vulkan

2016-09-07, 09:19 AM

One of the few times we saw that precious smile being from happiness

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-07, 10:13 AM

Wasn't she mocking how puny and pathetic the watermelons were being in that scene?

Maryring

2016-09-07, 10:31 AM

Phobia

2016-09-07, 01:54 PM

Looks more like this to me; Trapiche Emerald (https://www.google.com/search?q=trapiche+emerald&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwioyIzz9v3OAhVGfiYKHYOMC90Q_AUICCgB&biw=1344&bih=703&dpr=1.25).

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-07, 01:55 PM

Incidentally, I'm gonna take a new stab on Centipeetle's actual gem. Rose Quartz (kind of), Smokey Quartz, Jasper (a type of quartz), Amethyst (also a type of quartz) and the corrupted Quartz gems all have long, free-flowing hair. Centipeetle has the same free-flowing hair that seems typical for Quartz gems. I'm taking a stab now that Centipeetle was Vermarine before she was corrupted by the diamonds.

In addition, it's a green quartz.

Zhentarim

2016-09-07, 02:06 PM

Peridot with future vision might be fun to watch.

It would take a fusion, though.

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-07, 03:02 PM

She was. Taking delight in how ignorable their attempt at stopping her were.

Incidentally, I'm gonna take a new stab on Centipeetle's actual gem. Rose Quartz (kind of), Smokey Quartz, Jasper (a type of quartz), Amethyst (also a type of quartz) and the corrupted Quartz gems all have long, free-flowing hair. Centipeetle has the same free-flowing hair that seems typical for Quartz gems. I'm taking a stab now that Centipeetle was Vermarine before she was corrupted by the diamonds.

Wasn't the implication of that episode that Centipeetle was from Homeworld, having arrived on a ship later in the rebellion? All quartz are from Earth I believe unless I misinterpreted what's been said in the show, so they couldn't be a quartz.

What makes you think Bismuth is willing to kill her friends for any resistance?

The only person she tries to kill is Steven, and she tries to kill Steven because she decides that he really is Rose Quartz, and she's mocking Bismuth by pretending to be this kid, after having betrayed her, beaten her up, locked her in a box and then lied to everyone about what happened.

All of the evidence is that Rose hit first, the first time around. Bismuth was very confused and disoriented when she de-bubbled.

What makes you think Rose hit first? All evidence points to Bismuth as the aggressor as I see it, and as I'm fairly sure was concluded by others when the episode came out.

And even if that wasn't true she still did nothing "good" at any point. Still at best neutral either way.

Maryring

2016-09-07, 04:26 PM

Looks more like this to me; Trapiche Emerald (https://www.google.com/search?q=trapiche+emerald&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwioyIzz9v3OAhVGfiYKHYOMC90Q_AUICCgB&biw=1344&bih=703&dpr=1.25).

Could be. Could be. We haven't seen any emeralds in the show yet though, so hard to say if there's an archetype for them or not.

In addition, it's a green quartz.
That's basically my argument. :p Centipeetle was a green quartz AKA Vermarine soldier.

Wasn't the implication of that episode that Centipeetle was from Homeworld, having arrived on a ship later in the rebellion? All quartz are from Earth I believe unless I misinterpreted what's been said in the show, so they couldn't be a quartz.

Yes. Centipeetle came from Homeworld, but I've no idea where you got that all quartz must come from earth. I've never seen it implied anywhere that a specific type of gem must come from a specific planet.

Flickerdart

2016-09-07, 04:30 PM

Actually, hm.

The only gems we've seen born on Earth are Quartz. Jasper - check. Amethyst - check. Rose? Probably check. Steven sort of counts too. What other gems were grown on Earth? What other Quartzes weren't?

Maryring

2016-09-07, 05:17 PM

Tutorix

2016-09-07, 05:34 PM

Also all the Quartzes we have seen have been Pink Diamond's, so the hairstyle might just be part of her glam rock aesthetic and not a Quartz-specific thing.

I guess the most common theory would be that Centipeetle is a Nephrite, based on the cut of the gem and Bismuth's phrase about a Nephrite and a cockpit.

Ravian

2016-09-07, 07:47 PM

Lord Raziere

2016-09-07, 08:03 PM

Yeah. All the gems who we currently know where they were born were all Quartzes and they were all born on earth. But that's hardly proper indication of anything. It also makes sense for there to be lots of Quartzes born on earth. It's our second most common mineral after all.

That there was a war going on, of course they'd make a lot of soldiers to fight in it on the planet that was being fought over. And since Quartzes are high on the hierarchy, why not? Might as well make them over something low on it from their perspective.

Though I wonder by this logic, if the Diamonds are causing the resource shortage to try and make a second Pink Diamond? Diamonds seem to be the only people they don't consider expendable. What if they don't know how to make one and are diverting a lot of resources to figure out how to make another Pink Diamond, based on the logic that they'd rather have higher-caste Gems over lower caste ones? And a fourth Diamond is something they'd rather have over a lot of Gems, we haven't seen White Diamond yet after all, she could have a different perspective from both Blue and Yellow, especially since the Diamonds seem to be an odd mirror to the Crystal Gems, Pearl, Amethyst and Garnet having to deal with the loss of Rose, their leader for Steven's existence. While the Diamonds have to deal with the loss of their probably youngest least inexperienced member in comparison, and Yellow Diamond clearly isn't dealing with her loss in any healthy manner by taking it out on Earth, so White Diamond might not be dealing with it in any healthy way by trying to make Pink Diamond 2.0.

Snowbluff

2016-09-07, 08:11 PM

It's probably a trapiche emerald, judging from the black stripe.

And maybe the high quartz production was another important quality of Earth as a Colony?

One of the few times we saw that precious smile being from happiness

Wasn't she mocking how puny and pathetic the watermelons were being in that scene?

She was having fun battle. Simple math.

Lapis loves fun.
Jasper loves battle.
Malachite loves fun and battle.
Ergo, she love having fun during battle. She was loving fighting Alexandrite. She probably would have let the Watermelon Stevens mess around more if they didn't try to tie her down (which is a big no no, Malakitty hates that).

Aquillion

2016-09-08, 12:29 AM

Malachite might also have inherited Lapis' affection for Steven.

Draconium

2016-09-08, 12:37 AM

Malachite might also have inherited Lapis' affection for Steven.

She also tried to eat (and kill) Watermelon Steven at the beginning of Season 3. Totally seems like an affectionate thing to do.

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-08, 12:49 AM

Yeah. All the gems who we currently know where they were born were all Quartzes and they were all born on earth. But that's hardly proper indication of anything. It also makes sense for there to be lots of Quartzes born on earth. It's our second most common mineral after all.

Well I don't know of any word of god on it so I guess I'll have to leave it as a possibility for now. The main reason I and many others believe this is a combination of all known quartz being made on Earth, all Earth Kindergartens producing quartz, quartz being very resource intensive, and Peridot assuming Steven was made in Earth's primary Kindergarten when they went there, stating that because he was a quartz he must've been made there.

Also I think the hair thing is a stretch anyways, we've seen non-quartz gems with hair like that, and Amethyst was "born" with short hair, only changing it because she liked Greg's. Overall I'm going to somewhat agree with Trapiche Emerald because of the appearance, but because all corrupted gems look strange in some way it might not actually look like that so I'll bet on Nephrite as her gem, because we know they are pilots and she was a pilot. And Nephrite doesn't look too far off, having the same color and usually having dark irregularities on the surface, though not to that extent. Nephrite is also known for protecting against failure, overcoming evil, and changing for the best, which would explain how Centipeetle was able to be tamed by Steven and saw the most success in overcoming corruption.

Devonix

2016-09-08, 09:00 AM

I also think that Rose was the one to attack Bismuth. She seemed to not quite know what was going on, similar to other gems who get poofed without expecting it.

Flickerdart

2016-09-08, 09:16 AM

Lapis loves fun.
I don't remember Lapis ever enjoying anything fun.

Chromascope3D

2016-09-08, 10:09 AM

LaZodiac

2016-09-08, 10:43 AM

Trapiche Emeralds always have 6 prongs radiating from the center, though, whereas Centi's just has 2. Otherwise, yeah, it does look similar enough to still be a compelling theory (especially if the show runners just didn't know that piece of gemology when designing her character)

I am 100% certain that we should never discount their knowledge of geology in this series. If there's something about a gem, they know about it.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-08, 11:19 AM

and Amethyst was "born" with short hair, only changing it because she liked Greg's.

To be fair, that is only fan speculation. If you take the painting of cival-war-era Gems with Garnet punching a shark as canon, then Amythist already had long hair, and the three gems we know today just made themselves appear younger later on for some reason. Not sure exactly how canon that painting is though.

Zhentarim

2016-09-08, 12:41 PM

What personality/alignment would all of the characters on the characters on the show be? Human and Gem? What powers would it have? What would its name be?

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-08, 12:47 PM

Ok, that was cute:smallamused:

Snowbluff

2016-09-08, 01:17 PM

I don't remember Lapis ever enjoying anything fun.
https://media.tenor.co/images/b134fb7a72030adbfe1df747f98c6bf3/raw
I mean she hates human garbage, but she otherwise seems to enjoy her time with Steven and Peri.

Trapiche Emeralds always have 6 prongs radiating from the center, though, whereas Centi's just has 2. Otherwise, yeah, it does look similar enough to still be a compelling theory (especially if the show runners just didn't know that piece of gemology when designing her character)
Yeah, I'm guess the stripes are fixed like that due to the carbon bonding.

Of course, if the trapiches are all parts of the same gem, with 3 per full trapiche, then each would have one stripe. Hence, 3 trapiche emeralds make a whole crew. IIRC, there are 3 of them on the homeworld ship now, and she drew 3 crew. Nah, there's more little crew. However, if they're "familiars," fragmenting themselves might be how trapiche make their crew.

There, I blew the whole thing wide open. You're welcome, and yes I'm so easily distracted.

LaZodiac

2016-09-08, 01:47 PM

Ok, that was cute:smallamused:

I agree, though I'm unsure of how I feel at the prospect of Pearl quasi trying to date/get with someone who sort of looks like Rose. It's got that bit of awkwardness that is sort of not okay.

That said this was really cute and I love Pearl's attempts to be badass.

Snowbluff

2016-09-08, 02:22 PM

Hey we learned Ocean Town was ignited.

... I don't know how many people would remember ocean town.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-08, 02:42 PM

I agree, though I'm unsure of how I feel at the prospect of Pearl quasi trying to date/get with someone who sort of looks like Rose. It's got that bit of awkwardness that is sort of not okay.

That said this was really cute and I love Pearl's attempts to be badass.

not really that big a deal. People date people who remind them of close freinds/family members all the time because they're attracted to those traits. Pearl isn't comparing this new girl to Rose, she just has a thing for big girls with pink hair.

Flickerdart

2016-09-08, 03:24 PM

Steven has Connie. Garnet has Jamie. Amethyst has Greg. Now Pearl has Mystery Pink Hair Girl, and all the gems have a designated Human BuddyTM.

Except Peridot and Lapis are now Crystal Gems too. Who will their Human BuddiesTM be?

LaZodiac

2016-09-08, 03:42 PM

not really that big a deal. People date people who remind them of close freinds/family members all the time because they're attracted to those traits. Pearl isn't comparing this new girl to Rose, she just has a thing for big girls with pink hair.

Yeah, that's fair. I'm curious as to who S. really is though. Hmm...

Steven has Connie. Garnet has Jamie. Amethyst has Greg. Now Pearl has Mystery Pink Hair Girl, and all the gems have a designated Human BuddyTM.

Except Peridot and Lapis are now Crystal Gems too. Who will their Human BuddiesTM be?

We know her name begins with an S! That's about it.

Peridot will obvious encounter Renaldo and everyone will die laughing. I can see Lapis being friends with the the Pizza twins, or maybe Renaldo's sardonic, "my youth is dead" styled younger brother.

Flickerdart

2016-09-08, 03:45 PM

Peridot will obvious encounter Renaldo and everyone will die laughing.
I need this to happen immediately. It may be the best moment of the show. Forget the mystery of Pink Diamond, or the Corrupted Gems. The real climax will be Peridot and Ronaldo's encounter.

tonberrian

2016-09-08, 03:51 PM

I need this to happen immediately. It may be the best moment of the show. Forget the mystery of Pink Diamond, or the Corrupted Gems. The real climax will be Peridot and Ronaldo's encounter.

Or will it be the resulting tweets and blogposts by Peridot and Ronaldo?

Morty

2016-09-08, 05:56 PM

Well, that was certainly a thing. I hope the repressed nerd known to some as Pearl does try to date the mysterious pink-haired girl.

Admiral Squish

2016-09-08, 06:15 PM

That was SUCH a good episode! LET THE SHIPPING COMMENCE!
I really want to see more of mystery woman!
OMG I WANT TO SEE PEARL DATING. LIKE, ON A DATE.

Phobia

2016-09-08, 06:27 PM

OMG! I want this. I love this! Mysterious pink haired girl! I wan Pearl to date! This is amazing!

And with quite possibily the hottest character on the show so far too.

ellindsey

2016-09-08, 07:20 PM

LaZodiac

2016-09-08, 07:36 PM

I was expecting an episode about evacuating or abandoning Beach City. Instead, I got one about Pearl being a rebel and meeting a cue pink-haired biker chick. Good episode. I'm just wondering how the name of the episode applies.

It's a reference to ole punk movies and stuff like that. I know it's a direct reference to something specific but I can't quite place my finger on it.

The Extinguisher

2016-09-08, 07:43 PM

It's a reference to ole punk movies and stuff like that. I know it's a direct reference to something specific but I can't quite place my finger on it.

The only direct reference I can think of is Less Than Jake's "Last One Out of Liberty City" which isn't exactly punk but similar.

This episode was so gay I love it so much. Amethyst was golden in the episode.

Fawkes

2016-09-08, 07:46 PM

Maybe some one in the Crewniverse is a Less Than Jake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAJmJ4NPXC8) fan?

ellindsey

2016-09-08, 08:14 PM

Clearly, the mystery woman is Pink Diamond, who faked her death and is now covertly infiltrating the Crystal Gems in disguise. It's the only possible explanation.

Snowbluff

2016-09-08, 08:24 PM

Except Peridot and Lapis are now Crystal Gems too. Who will their Human BuddiesTM be?

Lapis' Human Buddy TM is Steven! D':

John Cribati

2016-09-08, 08:31 PM

"Pearl, if you and the Gems have been here since before it was even a sovereign nation, how come you're not citizens?"

"Steven, I think it's time we started discussing American History."

Flickerdart

2016-09-08, 08:33 PM

Maybe some one in the Crewniverse is a Less Than Jake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAJmJ4NPXC8) fan?

I believe that one of the creators confirmed that if you think something is a reference, it probably is.

Lapis' Human Buddy TM is Steven! D':

I guess since Steven is half-and-half, he counts for both.

Snowbluff

2016-09-08, 08:39 PM

I believe that one of the creators confirmed that if you think something is a reference, it probably is.
I'm still waiting for a long elevator scene. Pink Diamond's shattering will probably be accompanied by a classical piece, and will only be a single frame held for minutes.

I guess since Steven is half-and-half, he counts for both.

I'm still waiting for Lapis and Connie to meet. I'm lacking a certain level of dysfunctional in the episodes as of late, and that's way outside my comfort zone.

DigoDragon

2016-09-08, 09:08 PM

I hope the cop didn't get a good look at the plate or they're gonna be knocking on Greg's door to ask if he lost a car. XD

Lord Raziere

2016-09-08, 11:12 PM

I believe its a reference to some saying: "Last one out of (City), turn off the lights" where a city was was so lacking in business and such, that people were leaving and thus it was kind of a thing where people expected it to be abandoned and that the last person had to turn off all the lights like a room.

and yeah,good to see Pearl trying to be cool and "criminal". And she does make a good point that she has was around before governments and that she was probably too busy being a Crystal Gem to even bother with things like ID's and citizenship, when she had no reason to do so, much like all the other Gems. and yeah, the Crystal Gems are basically a 6000 year old group of criminals hiding from Homeworld.

as for pink-haired girl. I can see this ending in a few ways:
1. Pearl realizes that mysterious girl is not like Rose at all, they break up
2. pink-haired girl realizes the Gems are freaky or not what she expected, they break up
3. They have a good relationship with ups and downs until Pearl realizes that pink-haired girl is mortal and will eventually die and thus Pearl will be right back where she started.

Yeah.....:smallfrown:

Lizard Lord

2016-09-08, 11:45 PM

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-09, 12:02 AM

5. Somehow Pearl figures out how to replicate Steven's birth and either sires or gives birth to a new gem/human hybrid.... probably not though.

endoperez

2016-09-09, 12:05 AM

I loved Pearl trying to act all "bad boy", but still being so... Pearl. :D She tried drinking! She went to a party! She drove fast! :D

If there's going to be a relationship between Pearl and Mystery Girl, it's most likely going to further discuss Pearl getting over Rose. It might be portrayed as something she goes through to really say her goodbyes, it might talk about how the Mystery Girl is different from Rose, or something else entirely. But still, if the last big Pearl-centric moment was "It's over, so why can't I let go...", then this is her finally, in some way, starting to move on... or at least taking a few sidesteps to see what else there is, or could be, besides the memory of Rose.

Ravian

2016-09-09, 02:19 AM

not really that big a deal. People date people who remind them of close freinds/family members all the time because they're attracted to those traits. Pearl isn't comparing this new girl to Rose, she just has a thing for big girls with pink hair.

Yeah, it's actually commonly thought that the phenomenon of love at first sight is more based off of initial attraction with traits that you associate with previous partners.

Like you date a person that has an odd laugh, later you break up, later later you hear a person with a similarly odd laugh, your brain subconsciously connects that laugh to the last partner and associates that trait with attraction.

People (and gems) have types, Pearl's type has big pink hair thanks to her previous relationship with Rose.

It only becomes unhealthy if she starts to make similar expectations about her behavior as she would with Rose.

ellindsey

2016-09-09, 10:12 AM

Yeah, it's actually commonly thought that the phenomenon of love at first sight is more based off of initial attraction with traits that you associate with previous partners.

Like you date a person that has an odd laugh, later you break up, later later you hear a person with a similarly odd laugh, your brain subconsciously connects that laugh to the last partner and associates that trait with attraction.

People (and gems) have types, Pearl's type has big pink hair thanks to her previous relationship with Rose.

It only becomes unhealthy if she starts to make similar expectations about her behavior as she would with Rose.
If the theory that Pearl was originally made for Pink Diamond is true, then it could simply be that she was made with an inclination towards liking large, pink-haired women in the first place.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-09, 10:18 AM

Watching short clips from old episodes.

God dang Steven's voice was annoying in the first season or so.

Tutorix

2016-09-09, 11:43 AM

This episode was so gay I love it so much. Amethyst was golden in the episode.

Maybe the most adult episode I've seen.

Pearl absolutely needs to call that girl. Pearl is the new Rose, it's her turn to provide the Crystal Gems with direction and to date humans.

Also, maybe Mayor Dewey can help with getting her her citizenship? It will be awkward to go out and meet humans while being an *illegal* alien.

Flickerdart

2016-09-09, 11:45 AM

Pearl is the new Rose, it's her turn to provide the Crystal Gems with direction

How do you figure? The leader of the Crystal Gems is unambiguously Garnet, and one Steven is old enough, he will take over as Rose's son.

The Fury

2016-09-09, 03:46 PM

Been awhile since I've been 'round these parts, I haven't even posted in the new thread yet. Anyway, just initial thoughts before reading what anyone else has said:

It really does my heart good to see Pearl moving on and possibly learning to love again. I'll admit that there's a good chance I'm projecting or otherwise adding stuff that's not there, but I feel like when you lose a loved one-- like for good, as in they die, you occasionally ask yourself what they'd want you to do. In all likeliness they'd probably wouldn't want you to be sad and lonely forever, even though you feel like that's how it's going to be now that they're gone forever. So I feel like this is an episode about embracing life. Also, earlier on it seemed to me that Pearl only kind of liked humans because of how Rose felt about them. Now it seems like Pearl can actually see what Rose saw in them-- humans can be beautiful.

And Strawberry Sugar Shutdown-- it turns everything red? Even pee? What a horrific drink!

I'd never heard of Mike Krol before. I blame the fact that working night shifts for several years now made me stop going to shows. But damn. That '90s garage-band sound was made for mix tapes and singing along to the car radio as you drive with your friends on a clear night with the windows down. Myabe it's the combination of that style of music, along with the nightime palette and fast driving made me think of FLCL.

Or will it be the resulting tweets and blogposts by Peridot and Ronaldo?

I've been holding out for Peridot and Ronald to be internet frenemies for a long time now.

Yeah, that's fair. I'm curious as to who S. really is though. Hmm...

Maybe her name is "Susan," as in Susan Egan? (Rose's voice actress.)

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 05:14 PM

How do you figure? The leader of the Crystal Gems is unambiguously Garnet, and one Steven is old enough, he will take over as Rose's son.

Pearl would have assumed leadership if it weren't for the emotional devastation she suffered at the loss of Rose. She knows the most, has the most experiences, is the smartest, the best fighter, is a founding member of the rebellion. Garnet's behavior in Season 1 (and as far as Season to, IDR when the handship was a thing) was mostly her being stressed out over the reins being handed to her, and trying to put on a strong face for her fellow Crystal Gems.

Lizard Lord

2016-09-09, 05:42 PM

And Strawberry Sugar Shutdown-- it turns everything red? Even pee? What a horrific drink!

This is said by Amethyst who then proceeded to eat the whole can. It is uncertain whether or not drinking it normally would give that effect.

The Fury

2016-09-09, 06:52 PM

This is said by Amethyst who then proceeded to eat the whole can. It is uncertain whether or not drinking it normally would give that effect.

If so that drink could have the funniest/scariest of all warning labels: "Do not be alarmed! Your kidneys probably are not failing!"

Keltest

2016-09-09, 09:11 PM

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 09:14 PM

Frankly, I would question most of those. She might have more book knowledge than Garnet, but Garnet has the experiences of two people, seems to be at least as intelligent as Pearl, and can almost certainly out-fight pearl if she were set on that course of action. Pearl soloed Sugilite. She can take both Amethyst and Garnet at once. Furthermore, she seems skilled and capable of expanding her abilities well beyond her normal limitations as a Pearl, unlike Amethyst.

She is also a much better leader than pearl, who gets neurotic about things even when she isn't actually in charge and isn't particularly interested in getting, say, Amethyst to work with her rather than next to her.

Even Garnet herself admits she's not a very strong leader. Admittedly, lack of self confidence after losing Rose is mostly why she doesn't operate as a leader as well, and that's being cleared up as she moves on.

Keltest

2016-09-09, 09:20 PM

Pearl soloed Sugilite. She can take both Amethyst and Garnet at once. Furthermore, she seems skilled and capable of expanding her abilities well beyond her normal limitations as a Pearl, unlike Amethyst.

Sugilite is not just Amethyst + Garnet though. She has her own set of personality and combat flaws that Pearl was able to exploit. Sugilite is good for smashing, and that's about it, and its a known flaw with the fusion, which is why they don't do it often.

Even Garnet herself admits she's not a very strong leader. Admittedly, lack of self confidence after losing Rose is mostly why she doesn't operate as a leader as well, and that's being cleared up as she moves on.

None of the crystal gems are amazing leaders, but Pearl's extreme emotional reactions to, well, a lot of different things make her almost as poorly suited as Amethyst to lead. Garnet's ability to give direction in adversity rather than needing to take it is part of what makes her the best qualified to lead at present.

Cizak

2016-09-09, 09:21 PM

Pearl soloed Sugilite. She can take both Amethyst and Garnet at once. Furthermore, she seems skilled and capable of expanding her abilities well beyond her normal limitations as a Pearl, unlike Amethyst.

Pearl made a fairly unstable fusion trip and get knocked out by their own weapon. As Amethyst points out in Cry For Help, Garnet is stronger than both Pearl and Amethyst is solo fights.

DigoDragon

2016-09-09, 09:22 PM

This is said by Amethyst who then proceeded to eat the whole can. It is uncertain whether or not drinking it normally would give that effect.

I'm still trying to figure out how Amethyst "digests" anything she eats. Though the way she makes egg salad is both hilarious and horrifying.

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 09:23 PM

Sugilite is not just Amethyst + Garnet though. She has her own set of personality and combat flaws that Pearl was able to exploit. Sugilite is good for smashing, and that's about it, and its a known flaw with the fusion, which is why they don't do it often. Greater than the sum of her parts, still loses to a single Pearl. Says a lot about the parts. Wasn't a fair fight in the first place... for the fusion.

at present.

Precisely.

Cizak

2016-09-09, 09:33 PM

Greater than the sum of her parts, still loses to a single Pearl. Says a lot about the parts. Wasn't a fair fight in the first place... for the fusion.

Dominated a straight fight. Lost by getting hit by her own weapon.

Also, not necessarily greater than the sum of her parts in every aspect. Sugilite clearly has a pretty different mindset from both Garnet and Amethyst, and not all mixing of minds is going to produce better results.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-09, 09:34 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how Amethyst "digests" anything she eats. Though the way she makes egg salad is both hilarious and horrifying.

she probably doesn't. she probably either shape-shifts a stomach to hold everything until later, in which she just pipes it all out one way or annother, or her body is completely hollow and just kinda sits in her legs or something until she makes an availible opening.

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 09:38 PM

Dominated a straight fight. Lost by getting hit by her own weapon.

Stronger. Not a better fighter. That is to say, Pearl may seem weak, but she's got more skill. Garnet shows these kind of fighting skills against Jasper. Her fusion still lost to Pearl.

The pecking order is obvious.

Garnet < Sugilite < Pearl

Cizak

2016-09-09, 09:48 PM

Stronger. Not a better fighter. That is to say, Pearl may seem weak, but she's got more skill. Garnet shows these kind of fighting skills against Jasper. Her fusion still lost to Pearl.

Sugilite factors in a whole completely different mind than Garnet into the mix, which makes a Sugilite vs Pearl matchup completely different from a Garnet vs Pearl matchup. I don't agree that "A fusion involving Garnet got outmanuevered by Pearl" translates into "Garnet would lose a one on one vs Pearl".

The pecking order is obvious.

Garnet < Sugilite < Pearl

I disagree that the show supports this.

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 09:49 PM

Sugilite factors in a whole completely different mind than Garnet into the mix, which makes a Sugilite vs Pearl matchup completely different from a Garnet vs Pearl matchup. I don't agree that "A fusion involving Garnet got outmanuevered by Pearl" translates into "Garnet would lose a one on one vs Pearl".

I disagree that the show supports this.

Oh, do you have evidence? It's quite clear that this one gem can take on a 3 way fusion by herself.

Cizak

2016-09-09, 09:54 PM

Oh, do you have evidence? It's quite clear that this one gem can take on a 3 way fusion by herself.

I think it's quite clear that she can't, in a straight fight on a flat arena. She needs outside forces like gravity, the opponent's own weapon and the fusion being shaky to make it happen. Move the fight to the strawberry field and Pearl loses.

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-09, 09:59 PM

Greater than the sum of her parts, still loses to a single Pearl. Says a lot about the parts. Wasn't a fair fight in the first place... for the fusion.

Precisely.

In this case everything is put towards raw power, with no skill or intelligence. It's been said that when fused Ruby and Amethyst take over with Sapphire's voice of reason and intelligence going unheard. Pearl was able to make a plan utilising the environment to trick her into taking herself out. She never in a million years could've beat her in that straight fight she was getting demolished in.

And as far as leading while I too like Pearl I don't think she could ever make a good leader. She doesn't understand the concept of compromise, and is too aggressive while also requiring direction from others and being very unstable emotionally(and not just because of Rose but in general). She makes the perfect second in command but I don't think she could ever be as competent a leader as someone as stable and both wise and direct as Garnet, even Amethyst might make a slightly better leader because at least she wouldn't hinder her subordinates by forcing them into her control then giving no clear direction.

And I also think people are jumping onto this pink haired girl thing way way too quick. We know almost nothing about her, and what we did see suggests she would be horrible for Pearl, especially considering how dependent Pearl is. I think it would be very unhealthy to pursue this girl solely based on resemblance to Rose, and would only rabbithole her deeper into her dependent does anything to please personality that I know all too well. I hope she does not pursue a relationship with this girl, at least unless they can truly connect based on something other than a misunderstanding and lack of communication. The girl wouldn't even talk to Pearl until she saw how "cool" Pearl was.

That all said I thought "cool" Pearl was awesome and hope for more, reminded me of how I am around my friends sometimes.

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 10:10 PM

And as far as leading while I too like Pearl I don't think she could ever make a good leader. She doesn't understand the concept of compromise, and is too aggressive while also requiring direction from others and being very unstable emotionally(and not just because of Rose but in general). She makes the perfect second in command but I don't think she could ever be as competent a leader as someone as stable and both wise and direct as Garnet, even Amethyst might make a slightly better leader because at least she wouldn't hinder her subordinates by forcing them into her control then giving no clear direction. Well, as for compromise, she's become much more willing to do so as her bond with Amethyst has grown. We literal just had a whole episode about that. Not that compromise is necessarily a trait of a leader. Knowledge is very important when making decisions, and if you know more than your subordinates ignoring what they think is simply going to be necessary.

That is to say, everything that might hinder Pearl as a leader is evaporating thanks to character development.

And I also think people are jumping onto this pink haired girl thing way way too quick. We know almost nothing about her, and what we did see suggests she would be horrible for Pearl, especially considering how dependent Pearl is. I think it would be very unhealthy to pursue this girl solely based on resemblance to Rose, and would only rabbithole her deeper into her dependent does anything to please personality that I know all too well. I hope she does not pursue a relationship with this girl, at least unless they can truly connect based on something other than a misunderstanding and lack of communication. The girl wouldn't even talk to Pearl until she saw how "cool" Pearl was.

That all said I thought "cool" Pearl was awesome and hope for more, reminded me of how I am around my friends sometimes.

Looking at tumblr, it sounds like she might be important judging by past interviews. Fair warning. :smalleek:

Personally, I'm on the fence. She hasn't done anything particularly annoying. Of course, we already have theories like "she's another Rose Quartz!" and "she's Pink Diamond in disguise."

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-09, 10:27 PM

Well, as for compromise, she's become much more willing to do so as her bond with Amethyst has grown. We literal just had a whole episode about that. Not that compromise is necessarily a trait of a leader. Knowledge is very important when making decisions, and if you know more than your subordinates ignoring what they think is simply going to be necessary.

That is to say, everything that might hinder Pearl as a leader is evaporating thanks to character development.

Looking at tumblr, it sounds like she might be important judging by past interviews. Fair warning. :smalleek:

Personally, I'm on the fence. She hasn't done anything particularly annoying. Of course, we already have theories like "she's another Rose Quartz!" and "she's Pink Diamond in disguise."

I do hope it all evaporates with her character development, I love a character(especially one in a leadership role) like Pearl who truly values knowledge, I love it even more when they can objectively apply it like Garnet does, so yeah I hope Pearl does get there but I doubt it will happen considering Steven's development.

And compromise is important because you can't guarantee you always know best, many conflicts has been solved because Garnet compromised and tried the approach of Steven or Amethyst. It isn't nearly as important as things like knowledge, direction, and introspection, but it would be for someone without a strong sense of direction like Pearl. And even if that is fixed it's still important for avoiding inter party conflict which Pearl is currently bad at, but that owes more towards a slight lack of empathy which she is working on.

As soon as the Rose is Pink Diamond theories are all but shattered people waste no time finding a new target that looks just like her. It's like we're all Pearl at heart, I know I am in many ways.

Snowbluff

2016-09-09, 10:39 PM

I'm more like Lapis, honestly, with a splash of business!Peri. :smalltongue:

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-10, 12:44 AM

I'm more like Lapis, honestly, with a splash of business!Peri. :smalltongue:

As I've gotten older I've become much like Lapis. As a child I was like Steven but had my spirit crushed by the harshness of the world, I went through periods of being either like Amethyst or Peridot, and then settled into something like Pearl for the most part, but at the best of times I like to think I'm a lot like Garnet(healthy relationship with my inner self). Ideally I'd be a lot like Rose but it's not really practical or attainable right now so I settle for fluctuating between barnyard Lapis and business Peridot with long transitional periods of Pearl. That might not seem like it adds up but trust me if you think about the way they act and feel it makes sense.

Though secretly at heart when the situation arises I'm a solid Malachite, which I'm not proud of but still enjoy in the moment.

Ravian

2016-09-10, 03:10 AM

Pearl's strength has always been rooted on cunning and a high degree of disciplined training. Amethyst is a natural born fighter as a Quartz and Garnet is a fusion (which already makes her powerful) which includes the components of a fighter (Ruby) and a Precog (Sapphire).

Pearl meanwhile is built as a servant. By all rights she should be nowhere near a battlefield. She had to make herself into a warrior so she could help Rose, but it's clear that she will never match a Quartz in raw strength and power.

Mind you, that doesn't mean she can't beat them though. Fighting isn't as simple a situation as comparing people's power levels. So while Pearl can't offer a lot in raw power, she is very good at leveraging any advantage she can push. During the Sugilite fight she only started turning the tide when she started thinking. She made a tactical retreat, trusting that Sugilite's aggression would draw her in, she utilized the terrain around her to even the size advantage Sugilite had, and she turned Sugilite's strength against her, where otherwise she might have had difficulty inflicting much damage with her own weapon.

Comparatively Amethyst tends to have the problem where she doesn't think things through most of the time, relying more on her Quartz abilities and instincts in a fight. Granted she has very good instincts and she's much more adaptable because of that approach, but she still has considerable difficulties against a Gem like Jasper that is simply Stronger than her.

Garnet meanwhile takes a good deal of the best of both worlds. Her Ruby side offers a good helping of strength in a fight, while Sapphire's Future Vision is absolutely invaluable for mid-combat tactical decisions. This combined with the fact that Fusions are simply stronger than the sum of their parts, and its clear why Pearl and Amethyst consider her the most powerful in the group.

But while Fusions are more powerful than single Gems, the fact that they're individuals in their own right can also make them dicey at times in combat. This is the problem with Sugilite. She's an absolute powerhouse, but her personality seems to mostly be Amethyst's recklessness combined with Garnet's intensity. That's fine if you need her to go all out on something, but she sacrifices a great deal of Amethyst's instincts and Garnet's caution, which means that Pearl was able to run circles around her.

Pearl is no push-over, but her strength comes from intelligence and self-discipline. Comparatively Sugilite is a bull in a china shop, which just so happens to be an opponent where Pearl's particular abilities are particularly useful.

Sholos

2016-09-10, 05:17 AM

Would it be accurate to say that fusions are more a cross product of their components than a sum?

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-10, 07:38 AM

Pearl would have assumed leadership if it weren't for the emotional devastation she suffered at the loss of Rose. She knows the most, has the most experiences, is the smartest, the best fighter, is a founding member of the rebellion. Garnet's behavior in Season 1 (and as far as Season to, IDR when the handship was a thing) was mostly her being stressed out over the reins being handed to her, and trying to put on a strong face for her fellow Crystal Gems.

Let's see:

The Gems were all devastated by Rose's death
Having the greatest experience and knowledge may be good for a leader, but it is not a sole criterion. You would however expect it in an advisor.
Pearl being best fighter is questionable (see above posts for a good discussion on the subject).
Being a founding member is not in itself a good leadership qualification.
Garnet being "leader" is acknowledged at least once in the series - I don't recall the episode but it essentially has Pearl trying to make the point that the Gems make decisions collectively, followed by Amethyst commenting that they then do what Garnet says. Beyond that, Garnet frequently makes the ultimate decisions.

On the other hand, in Pearl's own words (copied from the transcript on the Steven Universe Wiki, emphasis mine):

But it's true! No matter how hard I try to be strong like you... I'm just a Pearl. I'm useless on my own. *starts to cry* I need someone to tell me what to do. (The walls suddenly stop moving. Amethyst pulls on her whip to bind two of the gears together, preventing them from turning. Steven pulls on Amethyst to provide support.) *holding her arms* ... When we fuse, I can feel what it's like to be you. Confident and secure, and complete. You're perfect. You're the perfect relationship, you're always together, I just... I wanted to be a part of that.

Pearl would not be leader because she excludes herself from that position.

Snowbluff

2016-09-10, 10:06 AM

On the other hand, in Pearl's own words (copied from the transcript on the Steven Universe Wiki, emphasis mine):

Pearl would not be leader because she excludes herself from that position.

Character development. A lot has happened since then. And isn't that just before Garnet admits she's not as strong as everyone thinks she is. Please don't bring up evidence that nullifies itself.

DigoDragon

2016-09-10, 10:15 AM

she probably doesn't. she probably either shape-shifts a stomach to hold everything until later, in which she just pipes it all out one way or annother, or her body is completely hollow and just kinda sits in her legs or something until she makes an availible opening.

Well that would help explain her room in the temple. :smalltongue:

The Fury

2016-09-10, 10:15 AM

Character development. A lot has happened since then. And isn't that just before Garnet admits she's not as strong as everyone thinks she is. Please don't bring up evidence that nullifies itself.

It doesn't though. Garnet by her admission is putting on a brave face to appear stronger and keep morale up. Pearl doesn't even do that.

Besides, we all know that leadership of the Crystal Gems has been handed over to Peridot.

Snowbluff

2016-09-10, 10:19 AM

Besides, we all know that leadership of the Crystal Gems has been handed over to Peridot.

"Whaaaaaat?"

The Fury

2016-09-10, 10:22 AM

"Whaaaaaat?"

Yup! It's totally in her Twitter profile.

Snowbluff

2016-09-10, 10:34 AM

As I've gotten older I've become much like Lapis. As a child I was like Steven but had my spirit crushed by the harshness of the world, I went through periods of being either like Amethyst or Peridot, and then settled into something like Pearl for the most part, but at the best of times I like to think I'm a lot like Garnet(healthy relationship with my inner self). Ideally I'd be a lot like Rose but it's not really practical or attainable right now so I settle for fluctuating between barnyard Lapis and business Peridot with long transitional periods of Pearl. That might not seem like it adds up but trust me if you think about the way they act and feel it makes sense.

Though secretly at heart when the situation arises I'm a solid Malachite, which I'm not proud of but still enjoy in the moment. I was always the Lapis.

But just yesterday I was explaining to my mathematician brother about possible ways of tracking near extinct species to see if they were, in fact, no long present in the wild, and how there is a certain degree of uncertainty in all things scientific that most of our work is spent trying to get rid of.

Yup! It's totally in her Twitter profile.
Yeah yeah, I know. I was quoting Pearl from the baseball episode. :smalltongue:

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-10, 10:47 AM

Character development. A lot has happened since then. And isn't that just before Garnet admits she's not as strong as everyone thinks she is. Please don't bring up evidence that nullifies itself.

Don't you mean "Please don't bring up evidence that nullifies my argument"? This is Pearl stating her position. The fact that it comes in a later episode is irrelevant.

I could understand this position if this was a point in this weeks episode, but it's not like Friend Ship is a completely new episode. It is mid Season 2 - about 2/3 of the series as yet revealed. We have had 41 episodes and a huge amount of elapsed time since then.

By all means, come up with counterarguments (You have come up with very interesting arguments in previous posts), but don't just dismiss things like this.

Snowbluff

2016-09-10, 10:58 AM

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-10, 11:12 AM

Well, her confidence has improved immensely as of Bismuth ("Nobody!") and Last One Out of Beach City.

EDIT: And Empire City. And many other episodes, really. Honestly, Friendship really seems like a step back after her fight with Sugilite.

Oh, agreed absolutely.

But then again, getting over an inferiority complex is a stop/start thing even for humans. For Pearl the inferiority complex is built in to her from the start as she was created to be a servant - not even Amethyst has that to contend with (her complexes come from other sources).

So, could be uneven writing, could be a genuine attempt to show that regardless of how much she has developed, Pearl still has issues because she was made that way.

Actually, this seems to be a common thing with Pearl and Amethyst - they have both come a long way, but they still see themselves as failures because they focus on what they can't do, not what they have done.

I reckon Amethyst could have given Jasper a much harder time if she had fought on her terms, rather than Jasper's - but she got fixated on beating Jasper one-on-one - the same thing Pearl eventually avoided in the fight with Suglite.

EDIT: Steven Universe gets a big mention in a recent Nostalgia Critic: Is Weird the New Brilliant (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXzmUfoKCqQ&list=PL0AQIMR-tpolVRCh8SEK6V5Xi4mRJdFTL&index=1)

Silfir

2016-09-10, 11:31 AM

Character development. A lot has happened since then. And isn't that just before Garnet admits she's not as strong as everyone thinks she is. Please don't bring up evidence that nullifies itself.

"Evidence that nullifies itself"? What does that even mean?

The moment where Pearl breaks down and says "I'm just a Pearl. I'm useless on my own. I need someone to tell me what to do." is absolutely, 100% telling about she is as a character at the time, and who she was in the past.

Character development, at best, can affect who she is from that point forward. Even if "a lot has happened since then", you'll have to provide an example how any of what has happened in the show so far suggests that the Pearl we have now has changed fundamentally from who she unquestionably was - and that is: a follower. Strong, elegant, brilliant, capable of accomplishing greatness - but as a follower.

If Garnet had not been around, maybe Pearl would have become the leader instead, considering Amethyst was (and still kind of is) basically a child. But without Garnet there to pick up the pieces, I don't think Rose would have allowed herself to pass on and give birth to Steven in the first place.

Snowbluff

2016-09-10, 11:33 AM

Maybe it's a bit of uneven writing, or maybe that arc may have really been about Garnet the whole time. *shrug*

Also, I hate the Amethyst versus Jasper fight. No Sells aren't cool, especially with how Pearl is able to rise above her programming to fight better, and gem weapons should be able to cut through a light body (after getting the awful, toyetic upgrades from Bismuth). Beta was a way better episode than Earthlings. :l

Tutorix

2016-09-10, 11:36 AM

You're all right, Pearl would be a terrible leader. Which is why it would be a fun direction for the character's growth. Also she's had no practice at it, in thousands of years of being a Crystal Gem it doesn't seem like she's taken much initiative, but she does have the ability to learn new things. Anyway I didn't mean she should depose Garnet, just that she could take the lead in something, like space exploration or human outreach (OK that's kind of Amethyst's job right now).

Which Gem am I like? My wife says she's like Peridot, in that she "followed every rule", and now she's had it with that. I would say that I'm like Garnet or even Sapphire in that people misread me. They "think I don't care!" as Sapphire cried.

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-10, 11:57 AM

If Garnet had not been around, maybe Pearl would have become the leader instead, considering Amethyst was (and still kind of is) basically a child. But without Garnet there to pick up the pieces, I don't think Rose would have allowed herself to pass on and give birth to Steven in the first place.

Another thing to remember that the events we are seeing are the 15-odd year tail-end of several thousand years of story. For us, 15 years is a long time; for the Gems it is almost an eye-blink. Nostalga for the Suburbs? They have only existed for - what - 70 years? Up until 15-odd years ago, Rose was their leader. That's like yesterday to them.

As to Rose not having Steven if it would leave them without a leader, I'm not sure... The rebellion is over for them, they are just picking up the pieces afterwards. Perhaps Rose's logic was that they don't need a leader for that, and there were good reasons for having Steven. We know so little about Rose's motivation beyond the fact that she clearly loved Greg and wanted to create a child.

Yes, there was the possibility that Homeworld would return, but they hadn't for some 4000 years and provided the Galaxy Warp was down the Gems felt reasonably safe.

In fairness to Pearl in these arguments, I think if she had to be leader she would give it her best - in Rose's memory if nothing else. As to how well she would do?

Well, she has come a long way since being "just a pearl". As Snowbuff points out, she has does have experience and knowledge (as does Garnet), so she would likely do well while just dealing with Earth. However, I don't think she would do so well when it comes to leading a battle with Homeworld, and all the way through she would be fighting crippling self-doubt because she will still see herself as "just a pearl"

Zhentarim

2016-09-10, 12:43 PM

Does Sugilite have future vision?

Snowbluff

2016-09-10, 12:54 PM

Does Sugilite have future vision?

I've spoken about this in the last thread. If she does, it's degraded, or by its nature it's useless against someone who can come up with good strategies, as it's more of a set of guesses than predicting the future.

Friv

2016-09-10, 01:19 PM

Does Sugilite have future vision?

Future vision seems to be modified by the people you mix with. Sapphire on her own can see a single pathway, the most likely result of a situation. With Ruby added in, she sees a myriad of possibilities based on her ability to take action.

My headcanon, which I should stress has absolutely no proof behind it, is that Sugalite's future vision only shows her whatever the most successful outcome of every situation is, being fueled by and reinforcing her need to constantly take action and DO SOMETHING.

Zhentarim

2016-09-10, 01:36 PM

That raises an interesting question:
Could Sardonyx display Saphire's future vision using Pearl's hologram powers?

The Extinguisher

2016-09-10, 03:09 PM

That raises an interesting question:
Could Sardonyx display Saphire's future vision using Pearl's hologram powers?

Sardonyx's future vision manifests as seeing outside the fourth wall

Zhentarim

2016-09-10, 03:15 PM

If Garnet fused with another sapphire, would it still be garnet?

Yuki Akuma

2016-09-10, 03:26 PM

If Garnet fused with another sapphire, would it still be garnet?

That is an interesting question.

Do you think the results would be different if Garnet defused, the two Sapphires fused, and then Ruby and MegaSapphire fused?

Ruby+Sapphire+Other Sapphire would probably have a different personality to Garnet, but maybe not that much different if most Sapphires are similar.

Phobia

2016-09-10, 06:59 PM

I can't wait till questions like that are addressed. Likely way in the future when Pearl and Steven fuse.

The Extinguisher

2016-09-10, 07:08 PM

I don't think it matters the order in which gems fuse, you always get the same result, as the fusion's gem type seems to be determined by the component gems (at least according to Smokey Quartz)

That, and how Ruby described the all-Ruby fusion ("me, but bigger"), I'd say that Garnet fusing with another Sapphire would just be Garnet, but bigger. If Sapphire fused with a different Ruby, you'd get a Garnet, but not our Garnet, because they're relationship would be much different.

John Cribati

2016-09-10, 07:31 PM

There comes a point where it would get a bit muddled though. If Sapphire fused with all 6 rubies, it would probably be a very lop-sided Garnet that came out of it.

The Extinguisher

2016-09-10, 07:58 PM

endoperez

2016-09-11, 07:17 AM

We have already seen a different Ruby and a different Sapphire fuse into a different Garnet. It was in a flashback 6000 years ago.

The garnet there was very, very different from the Garnet we know and love. Ruby and Sapphire were different, and Garnet was different, so at the very least we can tell that if the component parts change, the fusion also changes at least that much.

It doesn't answer ALL the questions, but I think a fusion between the cotton candy Garnet and the modern-day Garnet would be at least a good starting point when considering Garnet fusing with a different Ruby or Sapphire.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-11, 10:18 AM

:smallconfused:

Those... were the same ruby and sapphire though? That garnet eventually became the one we know today.

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-11, 10:35 AM

Garnet in the past is very similar in form to Garnet today, and we know that Gems have a degree of control over their appearance. Amethyst shows a huge degree of polymorphism in one episode, although she mostly sticks to the same colour scheme - and these were regenerations out of the gem, not simple shapeshifing. Of course, shapeshifing and polymorphism are Amethyst's area of specialty, so it's kind of expected in her case..

The main differences in the two Garnets are the colour scheme, the curves have tightened up a little and the hair is more blocky (and the visor, of course). It looks like a re-skin than a completely new form. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Garnet thought the original form was a little sloppy (after all, it was literally thrown together on the spur of the moment...) and tidied it up in a later regeneration.

Zhentarim

2016-09-11, 11:18 AM

But then would Ruby+Ruby+Sapphire be the same as just Ruby+Sapphire?

John Cribati

2016-09-11, 11:20 AM

But then would Ruby+Ruby+Sapphire be the same as just Ruby+Sapphire?
Ruby+Ruby= Bigger Ruby

Bigger Ruby+Sapphire = Garnet, but more Rubyish

Lord Raziere

2016-09-11, 12:53 PM

Probably. And the "me, but bigger" comment doesn't really mesh of what we've seen of the Ruby Squad. They all have such unique personalities that the fusion can't just be them, but bigger. I wish we got more character for the Ruby fusion, it would definitely answer some more questions.

I think those fusions are supposed to represent something like a military bond or something like that- just another worker, everyone sharing the same opinion, everyone doing the same thing as a job, and while that is a relationship, its often not the most personal or interesting relationships in the world. thus the bond is a little impersonal, because its just like five soldiers working together- them but bigger. which is the entire ethos of a military: hammer out all the individuality of the common troops so that they work as one unit. its not bad, but its not all that great either. Fusions seem to take what people have in common and make it the primary traits of the fusion: the Ruby squad has gullibility and following orders all in common. thus Big Ruby is really gullible and follows orders. but it feels like its just Ruby but bigger, because well....they are designed that way. much like a soldier is trained to work with other soldiers, but that isn't the same relationship as lovers.

endoperez

2016-09-11, 01:46 PM

:smallconfused:

Those... were the same ruby and sapphire though? That garnet eventually became the one we know today.

Basically, I think the memories of the last 6000 years are more important than who they were born to be. Since the Ruby and Sapphire from that episode have not experienced what Garnet has experienced, I basically see them as totally different people. Thus, I think that the Garnet they form is just as far from the current Garnet as a fusion of a random Ruby and a random Sapphire would be. Gem placement aside, obviously.

Sholos

2016-09-11, 04:45 PM

Basically, I think the memories of the last 6000 years are more important than who they were born to be. Since the Ruby and Sapphire from that episode have not experienced what Garnet has experienced, I basically see them as totally different people. Thus, I think that the Garnet they form is just as far from the current Garnet as a fusion of a random Ruby and a random Sapphire would be. Gem placement aside, obviously.

What makes you think that the components of a fusion don't experience what the fusion does? I think Stevonnie alone clearly shows that to be false.

Yuki Akuma

2016-09-11, 04:47 PM

What makes you think that the components of a fusion don't experience what the fusion does? I think Stevonnie alone clearly shows that to be false.

I think you've completely misunderstood what the poster you're quoting meant.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-11, 05:10 PM

to be fair, i can't quite understand it either...

are you saying that... every time ruby and sapphire fuse, they become a completely different garnet or something?:smallconfused:

Yuki Akuma

2016-09-11, 05:12 PM

...Guys.

You're aware that people change over time, yeah?

And that six thousand years ago, Garnet didn't have the memories of the past six thousand years, because they hadn't happened yet?

Right?

John Cribati

2016-09-11, 05:28 PM

Basically, if you took Ruby and Sapphire as they are now, and compared them to Ruby and Sapphire as they were 6000 years ago, you may as well be comparing them to any random Ruby or Sapphire.

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-11, 07:16 PM

Basically, if you took Ruby and Sapphire as they are now, and compared them to Ruby and Sapphire as they were 6000 years ago, you may as well be comparing them to any random Ruby or Sapphire.

Not trying to be rude guys but I have aspergers and even I understood that, though the phrasing was odd.

Anyways I'd agree, if you compared me to myself even five years ago I wouldn't even vaguely resemble the same person, I couldn't imagine you could even recognise them past name after six thousand plus years.

Zhentarim

2016-09-11, 07:19 PM

Not trying to be rude guys but I have aspergers and even I understood that, though the phrasing was odd.

Anyways I'd agree, if you compared me to myself even five years ago I wouldn't even vaguely resemble the same person, I couldn't imagine you could even recognise them past name after six thousand plus years.

Most of us are autistic on this forum.

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-11, 07:25 PM

Most of us are autistic on this forum.

Thank goodness I'm in the right place then :smalltongue:

Yuki Akuma

2016-09-11, 07:51 PM

Not trying to be rude guys but I have aspergers and even I understood that, though the phrasing was odd.

*highfive*

Snowbluff

2016-09-11, 10:14 PM

Most of us are autistic on this forum.

I've been told I'm on the spectrum (Aspergers, natch considering my parentage), but I'm more apathetic than unaware.

The good news that cartoons are good for people on the spectrum. :smallsmile:

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-12, 12:13 AM

I've been told I'm on the spectrum (Aspergers, natch considering my parentage), but I'm more apathetic than unaware.

The good news that cartoons are good for people on the spectrum. :smallsmile:

All my family are very normal people so mine's not genetic, but I'm also more apathetic than anything. Find myself unwilling to pretend I feel like expressing emotions when I don't, can't smile if I legitimately wasn't happy about anything at that moment, can't force those things because I hate the fake feeling.

Steven Universe has helped me realise a lot of things about myself and others that eluded me before I got fictional representation for it. D&D has helped a lot too, I actually play very expressive characters. I only seem to be able to truly identify things about myself and others in literary examples, where I'm actually great at identifying intentions and feelings. Wish I knew how to treat life as fiction and do that with real people.

Nice to see I'm not alone in some of this stuff.

kjelfalconer

2016-09-12, 04:12 AM

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-12, 06:23 AM

I think my only issue with that list is Onion. Onion is clearly unaligned, for much the same reason you wouldn't list Cthulhu as evil. Its imposing a system which is quite frankly irrelevant to the subject matter.

I don't know, I think Onion's aware of what he's doing. Like a grand plan of chaos, as(loosely) evidenced by him putting on a mask when threatened with jail time. Also kinda makes me wonder if Steven was blamed for some machines that Onion broke too.

Aquillion

2016-09-12, 06:49 PM

Pearl made a fairly unstable fusion trip and get knocked out by their own weapon. As Amethyst points out in Cry For Help, Garnet is stronger than both Pearl and Amethyst is solo fights."Strong" isn't easily quantifiable, though. Clearly Garnet has more raw power; but Amethyst isn't necessarily the best judge of Pearl's overall capabilities.

Notice that in Ocean Gem, Lapis has to devote two duplicates to fighting Pearl, and she's still the only one of the Crystal Gems who is winning her match when Steven dissolves them. Pearl has more actual combat experience and has spent more time training than any of the other Crystal Gems (and possibly more than any other character in the series.) That's why she was able to beat Sugilite.

(Granted, the other reason she did so well against the water duplicates was probably because she spends huge amounts of spare time practicing against her own duplicates specifically; Garnet and Amethyst didn't really know how to fight themselves, but Pearl did.)

LaZodiac

2016-09-12, 11:20 PM

It's almost as if the episode where Pearl beats Sugilite due to planning and smarts has a song about it who's message is everyone is strong in their own ways and no one is inherently superior or something.

Snowbluff

2016-09-13, 12:06 AM

+1 Aquillion.

It's almost as if the episode where Pearl beats Sugilite due to planning and smarts has a song about it who's message is everyone is strong in their own ways and no one is inherently superior or something.

Falls flat with Amethyst, though. I'm still peeved about that.

LaZodiac

2016-09-13, 12:15 AM

+1 Aquillion.

Falls flat with Amethyst, though. I'm still peeved about that.

Amethyst's main emotional problem is "I think I'm a garbage loser" so that makes sense.

Snowbluff

2016-09-13, 12:22 AM

Amethyst's main emotional problem is "I think I'm a garbage loser" so that makes sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjnIQQG-E4M
Even when she does well she gets her ass kicked. Stupid Earthlings... worst episode... :(

endoperez

2016-09-13, 01:21 AM

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-13, 02:58 AM

to be fair, amythis IS a Quartz. It wouldn't be unreasonable to presume that soldier quartz's are predesigned to tackle problems head on with brute strength and force. Runt or no runt, Amythis would be hardwired to try and punch her way through any new problem that comes her way, she'd need to actively resist her mental hardwiring in order to try and outsmart or out-run her opponents. And she doesn't exactly have the sevral thousands/tens of thousands of years of learning how to go against her programing that pearl did, for Amythist it was never even a neccesity, Pearl all but HAD to learn how to fight because she was part of a rebellion and a war, all Amythist has fought have been gem monsters and human animals at best, she's never NEEDED to out-smart or out-run them, she's never learned to go against her hardwiring and think of different approaches to things like Jasper.

Think of it like Sour Cream's gameboy music setup. Yeah, the gameboys can and are being used to make music, but it took a lot of time and effort to spesifically re-design them TO play music, any regular old gameboy that didn't have any work on it is going to be more capable at playing video games then it is music.

endoperez

2016-09-13, 04:08 AM

to be fair, amythis IS a Quartz. It wouldn't be unreasonable to presume that soldier quartz's are predesigned to tackle problems head on with brute strength and force. Runt or no runt, Amythis would be hardwired to try and punch her way through any new problem that comes her way, she'd need to actively resist her mental hardwiring in order to try and outsmart or out-run her opponents.

That's why they're doing this, I think. They're showing how some people (well, many people) aren't what they wish they'd be, and don't live up to their own expectations of what they should be. It is a hard story to tell well without the story becoming cynical. There's no magic fix-it-all in the real world, so giving Amethyst one would be a cop-out. Having Amethyst be happier not being a Quartz would be her abandoning who she is. Leaving her unhappy would be quite depressing. But the show is clearly going somewhere with all of this. I'm interested to see how Amethyst will change, and how this will work out for her.

DigoDragon

2016-09-13, 06:03 AM

I'm expecting Amethyst to change in some way

Well, she is a top-class shapeshifter. :smallwink:

Keltest

2016-09-13, 08:35 AM

I'm wondering if Rose's absence isn't wearing on Amethyst a lot more than she lets on. Obviously she misses her, but a few of Amethyst's comments during the fight against Jasper make me think that maybe she relied on Rose to keep her self-esteem above critical levels. She certainly seems to be struggling with it now, and part of her recent fights with Steven seem to hint that maybe she wants him to fill that same role, but his own self-esteem issues keep him from filling that role the way Rose did.

Snowbluff

2016-09-13, 09:41 AM

In Coach, Pearl fought Sugilite head on, got a peptalk, abd changed gears. Amethyst got beaten in the beach, got several episodes' worth of time and pep talk, and tried the same thing but harder.

Didn't Amethyst refuse Steven's help in Earthlings at first?

I'm expecting Amethyst to change in some way, and to be able to fight against Jasper-like threats in the future, with a different tactic.

Well, no that's not even the problem. She didn't land a scratch on Jasper after several direct hits. She never had a chance and never will, assuming the writing staff continues to forget that training should make you better. Amethyst's fighting style has always been creative and all over the place, but that should, you know, make it GOOD if she uses it to catch an opponent off guard and land a solid hit... but we now know that won't do anything anyway. >.>

It's like if you have a rogue in DnD. "Okay, I set up my flank! +2 attack and I sneak attack!" but the enemy is a construct and has damage reduction so you deal no damage at all and even if you tried your hardest, your main combat style is entirely pointless.

Keltest

2016-09-13, 09:56 AM

Well, no that's not even the problem. She didn't land a scratch on Jasper after several direct hits. She never had a chance and never will, assuming the writing staff continues to forget that training should make you better. Amethyst's fighting style has always been creative and all over the place, but that should, you know, make it GOOD if she uses it to catch an opponent off guard and land a solid hit... but we now know that won't do anything anyway. >.>

It's like if you have a rogue in DnD. "Okay, I set up my flank! +2 attack and I sneak attack!" but the enemy is a construct and has damage reduction so you deal no damage at all and even if you tried your hardest, your main combat style is entirely pointless.

She got direct hits, sure, but Jasper was ready for them and wasn't even trying to fight back, instead just focusing on taking the hits. The first hit Amethyst got in did visibly affect Jasper, but as she compensated her defenses that kind of attack became less effective. Plus, her weapon is a whip. You don't do a whole lot of damage by hitting someone with one of those even if you do get a good shot in. She didn't, for example, grab a rock with it and fling it at Jasper, she just smacked her with it ineffectually.

That's part of the point. Amethyst is trying to fight Jasper on Jasper's terms out of a sense of pride, but Amethyst doesn't fight like that, not effectively.

Smokey was more successful in part because she wasn't trying to out-brute Jasper, but instead outmaneuvered her. She kept Jasper off balance and generally controlled the battlefield to her favor.

Snowbluff

2016-09-13, 10:02 AM

Smokey was more successful in part because she wasn't trying to out-brute Jasper, but instead outmaneuvered her. She kept Jasper off balance and generally controlled the battlefield to her favor.

This is literally the opposite of everything. Seriously, we're looking at 1 to 2 cuils here, maybe three since we're discussing a cartoon.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/cardfight/images/1/18/Genderbending_kyonko_facepalm_by_sherbertkisses-d3d6f67.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130730155151

Smokey won precisely because she was able to brute force her way through the fight. Or did you forget the ****ing yo yo tornado?

Flickerdart

2016-09-13, 10:03 AM

Amethyst's skillset (whip, small size, shapeshifting) greatly predisposes her to skirmish fighting. This works well against opponents that are dumb, slow, have weak points, or are trying to accomplish some external objective. Jasper is none of those things - she is agile, cunning, and to lift a phrase from the esteemed author Margaret Atwood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Assassin), "built like a brick ****house." On top of that, Jasper is happy to sit there and let Amethyst crash against her, because Jasper's battle plan doesn't involve anything except beating Amethyst up.

Against a hypothetical Sugilite-like opponent, Amethyst's fighting style would dominate.

Keltest

2016-09-13, 10:08 AM

This is literally the opposite of everything. Seriously, we're looking at 1 to 2 cuils here, maybe three since we're discussing a cartoon.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/cardfight/images/1/18/Genderbending_kyonko_facepalm_by_sherbertkisses-d3d6f67.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130730155151

Smokey won precisely because she was able to brute force her way through the fight. Or did you forget the ****ing yo yo tornado?

In what way is that brute force? Its tactics. Its battlefield manipulation. She didn't just throw punches at Jasper until she blacked out.

Snowbluff

2016-09-13, 10:12 AM

In what way is that brute force? Its tactics. Its battlefield manipulation. She didn't just throw punches at Jasper until she blacked out.

Of course not, she only did the cartoon equivalent. None of that would have worked if Amethyst did it, because Amethyst could never do anything to Jasper. Ever. Nada.

It's like if you have a rogue in DnD. "Okay, I set up my flank! +2 attack and I sneak attack!" but the enemy is a construct and has damage reduction so you deal no damage at all and even if you tried your hardest, your main combat style is entirely pointless. This analogy is still perfect, and that makes me very sad.

Lizard Lord

2016-09-13, 01:41 PM

Flickerdart

2016-09-13, 02:26 PM

Amethyst didn't try any battlefield manipulation against Jasper. She did not fight against Jasper the same way she fought against Steven. It is impossible to say for 100% certainty what would have happened if she did.

I think Jasper would have wrecked Amethyst anyway. As a perfect Quartz warrior and veteran of Rose's Rebellion, she would know every trick in the book, and how to guard against it, which makes her Amethyst's toughest possible opponent. The reason Jasper is wrecked by fusions every time is that it's a battle tactic largely unknown on Homeworld. Another Quartz? Easy peasy. Whatever the hell a Garnet is? Or a Smoky Quartz? Or an Alexandrite? No clue at all.

On the flip side, Steven has even less experience than Amethyst, and less raw strength, which makes Amethyst's fighting style much more effective.

Keltest

2016-09-13, 03:43 PM

I think Jasper would have wrecked Amethyst anyway. As a perfect Quartz warrior and veteran of Rose's Rebellion, she would know every trick in the book, and how to guard against it, which makes her Amethyst's toughest possible opponent. The reason Jasper is wrecked by fusions every time is that it's a battle tactic largely unknown on Homeworld. Another Quartz? Easy peasy. Whatever the hell a Garnet is? Or a Smoky Quartz? Or an Alexandrite? No clue at all.

On the flip side, Steven has even less experience than Amethyst, and less raw strength, which makes Amethyst's fighting style much more effective.

I don't think I agree with that. Fusion as a battle tactic is the only particularly common use on Homeworld. While she might not know the exact capabilities of the new fusion, the idea that she would be caught that completely off guard by it seems wrong.

Flickerdart

2016-09-13, 03:49 PM

I don't think I agree with that. Fusion as a battle tactic is the only particularly common use on Homeworld. While she might not know the exact capabilities of the new fusion, the idea that she would be caught that completely off guard by it seems wrong.

Fusion on Homeworld is not the same thing as fusion on Earth. On Homeworld, five Rubies fuse to make a bigger Ruby, who thinks like a Ruby, and fights like a Ruby. Jasper could beat that kind of fusion with her eyes closed.

John Cribati

2016-09-13, 04:06 PM

Of course not, she only did the cartoon equivalent. None of that would have worked if Amethyst did it, because Amethyst could never do anything to Jasper. Ever. Nada.

Say you have two identical Barbarian builds, except where one Barbarian has 19 Strength, the other has 14. Who wins? The one with 19 Strength, right? Same principle. Amethyst is bad at being a Quartz because she's small, and Quartzes are supposed to be huge, beefy brutes.

Note that Amethyst wasn't fighting like she usually did against Jasper. Seriously, outside of her fight with Jasper, when has Amethyst actually tried to hit a person with her whip? She usually uses it for ranged grabs or as something akin to a slingshot, grabbing things and throwing them. Yet, all she was really doing was hitting Jasper with it.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-13, 05:11 PM

and less raw strength

It's been pretty heavily hinted at that Steven is unnaturally strong in recent episodes. from prying off a metal pannel peridot couldn't move with his bare hands, to carrying heavy concert equipment alone when normally it required at least two people.

watch the episode where sour cream puts on a concert with the help of his biological father again. Steven's a superman and doesn't even realize it.

Keltest

2016-09-13, 05:19 PM

Lord Raziere

2016-09-13, 05:37 PM

I don't think I agree with that. Fusion as a battle tactic is the only particularly common use on Homeworld. While she might not know the exact capabilities of the new fusion, the idea that she would be caught that completely off guard by it seems wrong.

Correction:
Non-homogenous gem Fusion catches her completely off guard. A bunch of Rubies doing it? A-Ok, because Gems are only supposed to fuse with the same Gems. but Stevonnie? (a half-gem and a human) Garnet? (a Sapphire and a Ruby) and Smokey Quartz? (half gem and a Gem) these are all, in her eyes, abominations against how her culture thinks fusion should be. So she gets angry and falls apart in battle from seeing relationships that don't fit her worldview.

her worldview is that such a relationship should only be for a boost in power for weaker Gems who need it- like the Rubies. The Ultimate Quartz like her though, she believes doesn't need it. Why need to improve what is already the pinnacle of war? Note, she is a blatant hypocrite in this regard in seeking out Lapis to fuse with again in a heterogenous fusion, but for reasons of seeking power which in her mind she probably thinks it doesn't count. She just wants to be the Ultimate Warrior, the most powerful warrior that the galaxy has ever seen, and she can be that if she becomes Malachite.

The conflict of Jasper vs. the Crystal Gems is not a case of a person of no relationships vs. people with relationships. Its a case of someone with really horrible relationships for horrible reasons vs. people with good relationships for good reasons.

Flickerdart

2016-09-13, 05:56 PM

It's been pretty heavily hinted at that Steven is unnaturally strong in recent episodes. from prying off a metal pannel peridot couldn't move with his bare hands, to carrying heavy concert equipment alone when normally it required at least two people.

watch the episode where sour cream puts on a concert with the help of his biological father again. Steven's a superman and doesn't even realize it.

Steven's strength is impressive for a chubby 10 year old, not for a millenia-old Quartz warrior. There is no doubt that Rose Quartz was physically stronger than Amethyst, and Steven will probably surpass her too, but right now the Purple Puma has the edge in muscle over Tiger Millionaire.

Keltest

2016-09-13, 06:03 PM

Correction:
Non-homogenous gem Fusion catches her completely off guard. A bunch of Rubies doing it? A-Ok, because Gems are only supposed to fuse with the same Gems. but Stevonnie? (a half-gem and a human) Garnet? (a Sapphire and a Ruby) and Smokey Quartz? (half gem and a Gem) these are all, in her eyes, abominations against how her culture thinks fusion should be. So she gets angry and falls apart in battle from seeing relationships that don't fit her worldview.

her worldview is that such a relationship should only be for a boost in power for weaker Gems who need it- like the Rubies. The Ultimate Quartz like her though, she believes doesn't need it. Why need to improve what is already the pinnacle of war? Note, she is a blatant hypocrite in this regard in seeking out Lapis to fuse with again in a heterogenous fusion, but for reasons of seeking power which in her mind she probably thinks it doesn't count. She just wants to be the Ultimate Warrior, the most powerful warrior that the galaxy has ever seen, and she can be that if she becomes Malachite.

The conflict of Jasper vs. the Crystal Gems is not a case of a person of no relationships vs. people with relationships. Its a case of someone with really horrible relationships for horrible reasons vs. people with good relationships for good reasons.

Not sure I agree with that either. She fought against the rebellion, and we know at least Garnet was involved in it and hung around with Rose a lot. It seems quite likely that she would have become familiar with the concept, even if she didn't get the appeal. And indeed, on first seeing garnet, she not only immediately recognized her as a fusion, but was scornful of her for being a fusion at all, not being anon-homogenous fusion, which was not referenced at all.

Flickerdart

2016-09-13, 06:41 PM

Not sure I agree with that either. She fought against the rebellion, and we know at least Garnet was involved in it and hung around with Rose a lot. It seems quite likely that she would have become familiar with the concept, even if she didn't get the appeal. And indeed, on first seeing garnet, she not only immediately recognized her as a fusion, but was scornful of her for being a fusion at all, not being anon-homogenous fusion, which was not referenced at all.

Recognizing a heterogenous fusion is simple. A new type of gem you haven't heard of in six thousand years? Fusion. Multiple gems? Fusion. Famous rebel warrior? Might be a fusion.

But merely recognizing Garnet isn't nearly enough to beat Garnet. For instance, nothing Jasper has ever fought would have had future vision, because on Homeworld, all Sapphires are non-combatants.

Amethyst, on the other hand, is your basic weak(er) Quartz. Jasper's done that a million times.

Snowbluff

2016-09-13, 11:58 PM

Say you have two identical Barbarian builds, except where one Barbarian has 19 Strength, the other has 14. Who wins? The one with 19 Strength, right? Same principle. Amethyst is bad at being a Quartz because she's small, and Quartzes are supposed to be huge, beefy brutes.

Note that Amethyst wasn't fighting like she usually did against Jasper. Seriously, outside of her fight with Jasper, when has Amethyst actually tried to hit a person with her whip? She usually uses it for ranged grabs or as something akin to a slingshot, grabbing things and throwing them. Yet, all she was really doing was hitting Jasper with it.
It's not the same principle at all. The level difference between the two barbarians would have to be huge to account for such a ****ing pathetic performance on Amethyst's part, and that would discount all of the fancy skirmish Amethyst does. Amethyst and Jasper have different fighting styles. Compare the too is like comparing plums and oranges. Except all of your plums are rotten and even though your bird mom has shown you that you can overcome nature to fight, your plum pudding turned out bad.

If it was two identical barbarian builds, they would at least be expect to deal damage to eachother.

Steven's strength is impressive for a chubby 10 year old

He is strong, but he's also 14. He's got that crazy puberty strength. :smallbiggrin:

Friv

2016-09-14, 01:39 AM

If we're using the gaming example, Jasper's been levelling constantly for the last 5000+ years, in addition to having drawn a total genetic lottery, and she's been specializing in anti-Gem combat on top of that. Fighting is literally her life.

Amethyst spent an unknown number of centuries living alone with rocks for friends, and then was taken in by a small band of rebels more interested in teaching her how to enjoy life than in how to be an endless murder machine. She spent the next however many centuries hanging out, shapeshifting, and fighting the occasional monster, all of which were big dumb brutes without tactics or really much in the way of intellect, and even then she had Garnet and Rose to do the really heavy lifting. If she got in a real pinch, fusion was there.

And we've seen that Amethyst doesn't like feeling dumb, and she doesn't like feeling weak. She's not going to be doing much fight training with Pearl, or with Garnet, because when she does that training she goofs it up, and then she feels bad, and then she goes and makes egg salad.

And then Jasper comes along, and she triggers every one of Amethyst's buttons, and instead of fighting her properly Amethyst insists on trying to fight her like a Quartz soldier. She goes in for spin attacks and physical hits without her whip, she rams herself at the problem several times, and yeah. That's not going to work. At all.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-14, 07:43 AM

If we're using the gaming example, Jasper's been levelling constantly for the last 5000+ years, in addition to having drawn a total genetic lottery, and she's been specializing in anti-Gem combat on top of that. Fighting is literally her life.
Jasper's pretty much the best non-fusion fighter on the show we've seen do battle so far. I'd guess that Lapis-with-large-body-of-water is the only non-fusion that could beat her.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-14, 12:52 PM

Jasper's pretty much the best non-fusion fighter on the show we've seen do battle so far. I'd guess that Lapis-with-large-body-of-water is the only non-fusion that could beat her.

I'm sure this only sounds funny in my head but...

Lapis Lazuli used FUSION with THE ENTIRE FREAKING OCEAN! it's SUPER EFFECTIVE!

Foe JASPER has POOFED.

Fawkes

2016-09-14, 08:13 PM

"The ocean and I are getting fused! Isn't that right, ocean?

...

How come you never answer me, ocean?"

Flickerdart

2016-09-15, 09:35 AM

"The ocean and I are getting fused! Isn't that right, ocean?

...

How come you never answer me, ocean?"

LittleKuriboh needs to come back and abridge Steven Universe. "Sentient shape-shifting rocks" is about as ridiculous a premise as "children's card games."

LaZodiac

2016-09-15, 10:08 AM

LittleKuriboh needs to come back and abridge Steven Universe. "Sentient shape-shifting rocks" is about as ridiculous a premise as "children's card games."

I get the intent of an Abridged series is to be a comedic and swift retelling of a long series, and thus SU might be okay for that given it's got so many episodes, but given how long the episodes ARE and the quality of the show, I don't think it'd work.

Flickerdart

2016-09-15, 10:16 AM

I get the intent of an Abridged series is to be a comedic and swift retelling of a long series, and thus SU might be okay for that given it's got so many episodes, but given how long the episodes ARE and the quality of the show, I don't think it'd work.

It would definitely be challenging, but there are many filler episodes that an abridged series can get rid of (since character building is not important). The rest of the episodes largely works together as a coherent story back to back. One or two 11-minute episodes chopped together into 5-minute abridged episodes? I can see that working.

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 10:16 AM

I get the intent of an Abridged series is to be a comedic and swift retelling of a long series, and thus SU might be okay for that given it's got so many episodes, but given how long the episodes ARE and the quality of the show, I don't think it'd work.

Yeah, given the already light hearted and comedic nature of the show, you can't really parody it. It's already it's own parody. Yugioh is super easy to parody because it takes itself waaaaaaaaaay too seriously. :smalltongue:

Lord Raziere

2016-09-15, 10:18 AM

LittleKuriboh needs to come back and abridge Steven Universe. "Sentient shape-shifting rocks" is about as ridiculous a premise as "children's card games."

Technically, he is still here, and doing episodes of the latter. He has just have slowed down to the point where they come out once in a blue moon. you'd have more luck getting TFS to do it, since they have more people. but even they have DBZ to work on, numerous lets plays to pay the bills, FF7 machinabridged, and the occassional episode of Hellsing Abridge

as for Steven Universe Abridged......how? a single episode of the show, is ALREADY only 10 minutes long, the Gems themselves wouldn't find anything ridiculous about the premise, and Steven as a character wouldn't be one who asks enough questions to point all this out unless you completely derail his character, while Connie doesn't show up enough to be a proper straight man to the hypothetical Crystal Gem's wise guy. I guess Greg could play the role but he doesn't show up in every episode and he was the one who fell in love with Rose to begin with and STARTED this whole premise.

so quite simply, almost no one is in a position to offer proper comedic back-and-forth that all comedy rests on. that and I'd say a lot of the show's charm is the sincerity of it, an Abridged series version would lose that if they tried making fun of it.

Flickerdart

2016-09-15, 10:39 AM

Connie doesn't show up enough to be a proper straight man...Greg could play the role but he doesn't show up in every episode and he was the one who fell in love with Rose to begin with and STARTED this whole premise.
That's nothing that judicious editing can't fix. And who says we can't cannibalize characterization for the sake of cheap laughs?

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 11:19 AM

And who says we can't cannibalize characterization for the sake of cheap laughs?

That's fair. One of my favorite parody series deconstructs the Mane 6 from MLP into alcoholics, *******s, insane people, and depressed horses (like the pink one... uh... Daisy?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgG_Z3zUpgo

LaZodiac

2016-09-15, 11:32 AM

That's fair. One of my favorite parody series deconstructs the Mane 6 from MLP into alcoholics, *******s, insane people, and depressed horses (like the pink one... uh... Daisy?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgG_Z3zUpgo

Honestly at that point just make your own series.

Flickerdart

2016-09-15, 11:33 AM

Honestly at that point just make your own series.

Animation is hard. "Remixing" someone else's animation is easy.

LaZodiac

2016-09-15, 11:41 AM

Animation is hard. "Remixing" someone else's animation is easy.

This is true.

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 11:53 AM

Honestly at that point just make your own series.
He actually has done original animation. Getting that to take off is really hard on youtube, and at all. Like I said though, it is a deconstruction that gives reasons for why the characters behave the way they do. Twilight, for example, is dangerously antisocial at the start of the series, and the whole "being a mother at 6 as well as a master wizard in training" thing isn't really examined in the show proper.

Lord Raziere

2016-09-15, 03:41 PM

Honestly at that point just make your own series.

Yeah and its like, if you like the show why are you making a parody that just strips it of all its good parts? YGO abridged works in its derailing because the real thing takes itself too seriously. DBZ abridged works because it stays true to the characterization of all the characters and feel of the series while expanding, fleshing out and exaggerating the traits they already have so that its more colorful and lively rather than feeling bland aside from the fights.

Sure there is pokemon the 'Bridged Series, by Elite 3, but I didn't find it all that funny since all it does is make everyone aside from Misty horrible people for no reason, so it doesn't feel like there is any point to watching it.

I think there is also attempts at abridging things like Code Geass or One Piece, but PurpleEyes humor is just too random and surreal for any of it to really register to me.

You have to be careful about what you abridge, in my opinion. There are things like One Punch Man that, as TFS put it "is Shonen Anime Abridged". Its already the parody that you'd want to make, or is a thing is already taking something else and putting its own spin to it that works and will only get worse when you try to fool around with it. Steven Universe works because its a shonen anime protagonist dealing with shoujo anime problems, and is really good at recognizing and help with relationship problems despite his young age, and you can't really rework that into something funny from my perspective,

I mean sure you could try like, exaggerating the Crystal Gem's personalities to the extreme then have Steven be the snarky straight man, but he already has some straight man traits to him that nevertheless are mixed with his own goofiness that other people play straight man to. I just don't think it would work.

Steven Universe ain't broke. I don't think it needs fixing.

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 04:06 PM

Yeah and its like, if you like the show why are you making a parody that just strips it of all its good parts?
The Mentally Advanced Series might be a little... advanced for you.
http://iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/tumblr_inline_mk2mtvMI1Q1qz4rgp.gif

But seriously, you're going to have to watch the whole thing to understand it, starting with the Abridged Series and then moving onto the flash animated parody. It's really transcends the source material.

Steven Universe ain't broke. I don't think it needs fixing.

Uh, it's not perfect. There are plenty of things that need fixing. :smalltongue:

Aquillion

2016-09-15, 05:41 PM

Yeah, given the already light hearted and comedic nature of the show, you can't really parody it. It's already it's own parody. Yugioh is super easy to parody because it takes itself waaaaaaaaaay too seriously. :smalltongue:You could abridge it down to the serious parts, though. And sometimes you can take existing jokes and enhance or rework them.

eg. Steven telling Bismuth that new gems normally try to kill him; smash-cut to Bismuth trying to kill him while Steven says "well, boop" or the like.

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 05:46 PM

You could abridge it down to the serious parts, though. And sometimes you can take existing jokes and enhance or rework them.

eg. Steven telling Bismuth that new gems normally try to kill him; smash-cut to Bismuth trying to kill him while Steven says "well, boop" or the like.

Yeah, I can see that.

You can do the same thing with Jasper saying "This planet ruins everything, except for me!" (which i have a t shirt of because I'm that fabulous), and then cut to her being corrupted and screaming.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-15, 07:42 PM

So Onion Gang is out (http://theworldofstevenuniverse.blogspot.ca/2010/02/steven-universe-season-4-english.html) if you guys wanna see it.

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 10:12 PM

So Onion Gang is out (http://theworldofstevenuniverse.blogspot.ca/2010/02/steven-universe-season-4-english.html) if you guys wanna see it.

... Eh, it's onion. I'll get around to it. :smalltongue:

Sholos

2016-09-15, 11:03 PM

So Onion Gang is out (http://theworldofstevenuniverse.blogspot.ca/2010/02/steven-universe-season-4-english.html) if you guys wanna see it.

Oh man ONION! ^_^

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-15, 11:07 PM

... Eh, it's onion. I'll get around to it. :smalltongue:

Oh man ONION! ^_^
The Duality of Man.

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 11:09 PM

They DO NOT practice proper sling shot safety on that sling shot range! Never sling when you have a buddy down range! :smallannoyed:

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-15, 11:17 PM

i'm pretty sure they're all at least 80% evil incarnate. so i don't think they care.

Also, strange naming theme they have going...

Snowbluff

2016-09-15, 11:21 PM

i'm pretty sure they're all at least 80% evil incarnate. so i don't think they care.

Also, strange naming theme they have going...

The real name of the episode is "Lord of the Beetles." :smallwink:

John Cribati

2016-09-15, 11:25 PM

A lot of people say that Onion can potentially be somewhere on the autism spectrum.

I kind of see it now.

LaZodiac

2016-09-16, 12:30 AM

Honestly something of note here is that Onion actually said words here. He spoke in whatever foreign language Yellowtail speaks in, but he DID speak.

Ravian

2016-09-16, 02:17 AM

Honestly something of note here is that Onion actually said words here. He spoke in whatever foreign language Yellowtail speaks in, but he DID speak.

He has spoken like that before. Only while talking with Yellowtail though.

Maryring

2016-09-16, 02:30 AM

https://geekwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/worst-episode-ever.jpg

Onion really can't carry an episode on his own, and even though Steven's voice has gotten a whole lot better than the earlier episodes, an episode with only him speaking still grates on the ears. At least the seasonal Onion exposure is over with. Or so I hope.

Rater202

2016-09-16, 10:28 PM

Onion is friends with similarly named and similarly speach impaired creepy kids.

Steven is less creeped out by Onion than he was previously.

This is all.

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-17, 03:40 AM

Onion is friends with similarly named and similarly speach impaired creepy kids.

Steven is less creeped out by Onion than he was previously.

This is all.

Actually, thinking about The Kindergarten Kid: Steven talks to Peridot about gem mutants thinking and seeing things differently to other people. Has dealing with Onion helped Steven to (partially) understand the mutants?

Ravens_cry

2016-09-17, 04:51 AM

I was hoping for some follow up on Pearl is a Lesbian!: The Episode AKA Last One Out of Beach City, but I guess it's too soon for that.

Manga Shoggoth

2016-09-17, 05:58 AM

I was hoping for some follow up on Pearl is a Lesbian!: The Episode AKA Last One Out of Beach City, but I guess it's too soon for that.

I'd have said that it is a little late for that, given what we have seen with her relationship with Rose...

Phobia

2016-09-17, 06:34 AM

I was just saying last week how I wanted more of the mystery girl but this week's episode would probably follow someone I care zero about like Ronaldo. But it followed Onion. Which is somehow even worse.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-17, 08:05 AM

Very, very, boring episode. Onion is not a character I greatly care about, and Steven didn't really get anything interesting to do. Probably a contender for worst episode of the show.

Keltest

2016-09-17, 08:27 AM

I'd have said that it is a little late for that, given what we have seen with her relationship with Rose...

Indeed. I found it far more interesting that she would pursue a relationship with a human at all than that she picked a female.

Snowbluff

2016-09-17, 12:31 PM

I was hoping for some follow up on Pearl is a Lesbian!: The Episode AKA Last One Out of Beach City, but I guess it's too soon for that.

You're silly. Things are happening really slowly. it'll be months before we get any plot. :smalltongue:

... :smallfrown:

Lurkmoar

2016-09-17, 12:44 PM

You're silly. Things are happening really slowly. it'll be months before we get any plot. :smalltongue:

... :smallfrown:

Them Steven bombs spoiled folks. Then again, it can be killer to wait a week and only get a 15 minute update. Especially since there was a new episode every weekday for what... a month?

Also, I dunno if Onion Gang was the worst episode, I didn't really care for it. Onion only really seems to work for me when he does a gag and then drops out... like when he used that harpoon gun way back in season one and accidentally sunk that ship.

Morty

2016-09-17, 01:41 PM

I wonder if this episode was made because every voice actor except Steven's was unavailable.

LaZodiac

2016-09-17, 01:51 PM

I wonder if this episode was made because every voice actor except Steven's was unavailable.

Well I mean if anything this'll save money for other episodes down the line.

Also did no one else notice that we're back on hiatus status now? Because we are...

Lurkmoar

2016-09-17, 02:38 PM

Also did no one else notice that we're back on hiatus status now? Because we are...

Adventure Time has been on hiatus for months now. I hope it's because they're still working on the movie. Uncle Grandpa is toast, and Regular Show is coming back... but IN SPACE!

So, this is like a mid-season break we're looking at?

Phobia

2016-09-17, 05:54 PM

The best part of that episode was when it showed the picture of Garnet giving a thumbs up for a second.

Fawkes

2016-09-17, 06:12 PM

Also, I dunno if Onion Gang was the worst episode, I didn't really care for it. Onion only really seems to work for me when he does a gag and then drops out... like when he used that harpoon gun way back in season one and accidentally sunk that ship.

It was certainly the least episode.

MorgromTheOrc

2016-09-17, 11:16 PM

I thought it was okay, definitely not the quality I'm used to by this point but not terrible. It showed that Onion isn't at least wholly evil, and does something with his time other than torment the people of Beach City.

Oh and on the previous topic of abridged series, the SAO Abridged is the best I've seen, legitimately better than the original by far, with far more character development as well as of course being hilarious. Every episode is far better than the last and you should definitely check it out whether you love or hate the original.

Ravens_cry

2016-09-18, 12:53 AM

I'd have said that it is a little late for that, given what we have seen with her relationship with Rose...
Oh, I know that, you know that, but far too many were of the impression they were asexual* space rocks, it didn't really count, or that Pearl's love/infatuation for Rose wasn't in any way romantic.
*in the reproductive sense

Well I mean if anything this'll save money for other episodes down the line.

Also did no one else notice that we're back on hiatus status now? Because we are...
Yeah, I noticed when I realized no more upcoming episodes were listed on Wikipedia and on TV Tropes.
How long will this one last, I wonder? :smallfrown:

LaZodiac

2016-09-18, 01:38 AM

Greg Universe riffing on Billy Crystal's really offensive, ****ty act at the Katrina Comedy Relief Benefit. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJ53t7Pgag)

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-18, 02:33 AM

think people are kinda mistreating onion gang tbh, yeah it wasn't the best episode in the world, but your reason for thinking it's the worst shouldn't be "because it wasn't about pearl and mystery girl", that's just rude. We'll get back to them sooner or later, in the meantime there are other things to get too. If you latch on to one idea and throw a fit any time something that isn't that idea happens, then you're kinda just being a ****.

Maryring

2016-09-18, 06:02 AM

People aren't calling out Onion Gang on being a bad episode for not continuing Pearl and Rose 2.0. They're calling out Onion Gang on being a bad episode because it is a bad episode. Onion can't carry an episode on his own. There's nothing exciting about the episode. Nothing that makes you excited because Onion is not an exciting character. He's an RNG. Things Onion do in one episode has no effect on the next time he shows up, so an episode devoted to exploring him doesn't carry nearly as much weight as an episode devoted to exploring Jamie or the Pizzas. You could probably create an entirely new character and have the episode focus on them and it'd be better off because it didn't have Onion's baggage. The episode also fails to deliver on the premise of exploring Onion, because all we see is that Onion has friends. Besides that, the episode is all about Steven being petulant, whiny and talking way too much.

TL:DR Bad episode is bad.

endoperez

2016-09-18, 07:36 AM

Fawkes

2016-09-18, 12:39 PM

I didn't like Onion Gang. Not because it's a particularly bad episode - I dislike the episodes "Secret Team" and "Fusion Cuisine" more - but because it had so few good qualities in it. I don't know what this episode does for the show as a whole, I don't know what Onion does for this show as a whole. So maybe it's better to say that I think it's a worthless or useless episode

Yeah, this is what I meant when I called it the least episode. There's not really anything particularly bad about it, it's just that there's not really anything particularly good about it, either.

Phobia

2016-09-18, 06:43 PM

All the Onion episodes are garbage.. which is bad because I love Vidalia and Sour Cream. Not so much Fishtail either tho.

Callos_DeTerran

2016-09-18, 07:39 PM

Oh, I know that, you know that, but far too many were of the impression they were asexual* space rocks, it didn't really count, or that Pearl's love/infatuation for Rose wasn't in any way romantic.
*in the reproductive sense

Well I mean, they ARE polymorphic sentient space rocks. :smalltongue: I for one applaud Pearl for being willing to look past the species barrier.

Come to think of it, Pearl looking past that actually IS rather remarkable...

Lord Raziere

2016-09-18, 08:53 PM

Ok yeah, Onion pretty much is the worst part of the show, but thats only because everyone agrees that Onion doesn't make any sense. The Gems make far more sense than Onion. Their setting magic is pretty self-consistent and ties in to a lot of the themes and commentary of the show.

Onion on the other hand, lets face it, is his own brand of weirdness that has nothing to do with anything, doesn't contribute anything of note, and doesn't really have a point by itself. It just seems to be there. Maybe Onion is for representational neurodiversity purposes, but I honestly wouldn't be able to pin down whats his deal if I tried. Which is honestly a lot of the cases of fictional representation of such people: they exhibit many traits of this or that, but its never exactly clear what mental condition they actually have. and some neurodiverse conditions can be look similar on the surface while being completely different.

Callos_DeTerran

2016-09-18, 09:21 PM

Snowbluff

2016-09-18, 10:42 PM

I mean, I wish they would leave us with some plot before a hiatus.

The question is what to do in the meantime.

Professor Gnoll

2016-09-18, 10:42 PM

Onion does feel kind of out-of-place in the show. It's alright when he's just a background element (setting the rollercoaster on fire, using the harpoon...) but when he has to carry a whole episode, it just falls apart. Bad character, bad episode.

LaZodiac

2016-09-18, 11:58 PM

I mean, I wish they would leave us with some plot before a hiatus.

The question is what to do in the meantime.

I linked to it earlier, but I'd like to make a recommendation of "The Best Show" which is some kind of podcast thingo with Greg Universe's voice actor. It's really funny.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-19, 12:38 AM

i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with onion tbh. kid's just weird for being weird is my guess. maybe this episode was their attempt to add something more then just the crazyness we know him for, maybe they just wanted to show that there were more kids then just him and steven around. Heck, maybe they just wanted to make an episode where people could laugh about children named after food, who knows?

Flickerdart

2016-09-19, 09:42 AM

The episode was so mediocre that it didn't even carry my attention until the end. I'm definitely in the "Onion is pointless" camp. His only good moments are one-off gags like with the robber's mask, and the show has loads of characters already that it could use for these jokes.

Keltest

2016-09-19, 09:55 AM

I think the problem with Onion is that he isn't so much a character as a sequence of events. We have no idea what he's actually thinking or why he does what he does. Is he desperate for attention? Is he just a sociopath? was he driven insane by the inability to communicate with anyone outside of his immediate friends and family? We don't know, and there aren't any hints, so its hard to feel invested in anything he does unless it affects someone we are actually invested in, and even then there really isn't any tension because everyone treats it as just Onion being Onion.

Flickerdart

2016-09-19, 10:23 AM

Onion is that he isn't so much a character as a sequence of events.
I think you really hit the nail on the head here. It's also a very useful way of looking at poorly-written characters in general!

Lizard Lord

2016-09-19, 10:56 AM

Onion is not the worse character in my opinion. Sure he may only be good for one off jokes (and I am not convinced there are better characters for those jokes), but Ronaldo and Lars aren't even good for that.

The fact that this Episode has neither of those characters in it, makes it hard for me to declare it the worst episode in the series. I suppose I can say its the worst episode to not have Ronaldo or Lars in it though.

Flickerdart

2016-09-19, 11:01 AM

Onion is not the worse character in my opinion. Sure he may only be good for one off jokes (and I am not convinced there are better characters for those jokes), but Ronaldo and Lars aren't even good for that.
Ronaldo is an incredible character - he's the only human unaffiliated with the Crystal Gems who's in on the polymorphic rock conspiracy. He has a very clear agenda that drives his relationships with the other characters, his motivations, and his reactions to situations. Plus he has the blog, which is a great way for the show to interact with fans outside of the usual, boring ways.

Lars exists as a duo with Sadie. Together they provide a useful location for the show (the donut shop) as well as friends for Steven. But more importantly, they display a specific kind of relationship in a show about relationships.

Onion has none of that.

Chromascope3D

2016-09-19, 11:46 AM

Ronaldo is an incredible character - he's the only human unaffiliated with the Crystal Gems who's in on the polymorphic rock conspiracy. He has a very clear agenda that drives his relationships with the other characters, his motivations, and his reactions to situations. Plus he has the blog, which is a great way for the show to interact with fans outside of the usual, boring ways.

Lars exists as a duo with Sadie. Together they provide a useful location for the show (the donut shop) as well as friends for Steven. But more importantly, they display a specific kind of relationship in a show about relationships.

Onion has none of that.

I agree. I really like Lars and Ronaldo. They're valuable to both Steven and the audience because they offer alternative insights without specifically being antagonistic, and while they both sometimes do despicable things that put them at odds with both each other and the rest of the cast, I honestly believe the show would be worse off without them. Plus I think that they're hilarious, but maybe that's just me.