Helping Newbies pick spells

[PhoenixPhyre]

So I'm the faculty advisor (and DM) of the Dungeons and Dragons Club at the high school I teach at, and will be helping about 20 kids make characters and play 5th edition this upcoming week. I've put together a "recommended spell list" for 1st level and would like some folks to review it. I've played mostly clerics (and a couple druids), so I don't know the arcane side nearly as well. Are my choices horrible? Are there better general purpose ones?

Note: Most of these kids are completely new both to 5E and to table-top RPGs as well. Simple choices, even if non-optimized will probably work best. I'm also shooting for the most general recommendations. I've tried to include some very minor descriptions of the "use this for basic damage" line. I will not be requiring them to use this list--they are free to choose however they wish and I allow retconning characters once before 3rd level.

The list is in a google doc:
Spell List (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HGqybc6e83koo4fgwirrDF9igC79_LkL3W5ap3zfAMY/edit?usp=sharing)

Thanks for any help.

[Ninja_Prawn]

The problem with this document is that it could lead to a lot of very samey characters in any given party (I assume you're breaking up the 20 kids into smaller groups until the club whittles itself down).

And how old are these kids? I would have thought high schoolers could be trusted to pick their own spells. The difficult part will probably be getting them to remember when and how to use them.

[AttilatheYeon]

So for the most part i agree with NinjaPrawn on this. Instead of a must have spell list, why not highlight the strength(s) of each class in the 3 pillars? That way it gives some guidance on what spells and skills to take without outright putting them in boxes. U might find that ur players surprise u with a creative use of a spell u thought wasn't worth anything.

If u're afraid they'll make a mistake with a spell choice or won't like the way it plays, use AL guidelines and let them respec until level 5.

[Gastronomie]

Wow, you teach D&D at school? That is awesome.

However, my idea is the same as Ninja_Prawn in that optimization is unrequired, especially for newbies. If they jump into the game and the first thing they learn is optimization, they might not get bold enough to choose whatever spells they want, which is obviously more fun for playing. And if it's a elementary school student I might think they need help, but high schoolers will have enough real-life INT and WIS to choose whatever's strong or thematic. They'll be able to understand, and even if they fail, that's good way for them to learn. You can give them advice after they fail.

So my advice is to not give that list to your students.

Also, even if you are to use it, there's some mistakes in your list. For instance, you don't need Magic Missile to be an effective wizard, and same goes for False Life (if anything, you should emphasize the importance of Rituals). The cantrips for Sorcerers don't need to be so restrictive. Armor of Agathys/Arms of Hadar isn't so optimized for level 1 builds, and so on.

[Reynaert]

Where are all the illusion spells?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Where are all the illusion spells?

What kind of fool DM would advise their own players to pick illusions? That's what you say to other people's players! :smallamused:

[Socratov]

Having started with 3.5 I understand the need for limiting the number of choices, however, considering 5e's simpler rules I'd advise you to not coddle your players and to let them do as they please and to be ready for questions. Then when they've picked their spells, go over the sheet with them to make sure they understand the way the spells work the same way you do.

That way you can always advise them to reconsider their choices, but allow them total freedom over their character.

As a result you will have the control you desire, and they will have made their character their very own, and not their own within a limit of the game.

if they have questions about how powerful something is, you can always point them towards these forums.

And Ninja Prawn: depends on the player and DM, sometimes

[PhoenixPhyre]

Well, that answers that. I bow to the collective wisdom of the playground. I'll re-frame it as a discussion of each class's strengths and weaknesses in each of the 3 pillars. Thanks everybody!

[TheUser]

As mentioned before this will make lots of cookie cutter builds; instead of telling them what is good and what isn't give them access to an easy to navigate online reference and let them figure it out:

http://ephe.github.io/grimoire/

Sorts spells by class/level making browsing spells MUCH easier than the PHB.