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Coretron03
2016-09-04, 11:20 PM
Hi, today i am looking for, as the title says wizard buffs spell, Preferably level 7 or lower and with decent durations that help gish or provide a good defense or some all day buffs.
Alos what are efficent ways to raise caster level for spells? Either specific schools or all of them. All Srd and spell comphendium and magic comphendium, plus any other if you can cite a source. If there are good ways to get spells of other lists then can you cite a source and how?

Thanks in advance

Calthropstu
2016-09-04, 11:45 PM
Spell turning is one of my favorites. Lasts hours per level, and sends a spell right back at the caster.
Another great one is globe of invulnerability (the mythic one in pathfinder is the greatest defense spell in the game.)
Others include protection from [your opposing alignments], lifeward, freedom of movement(best in permanent item form) and of course, shapechange the most abused spell in 3.5.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 03:59 AM
Spell turning is one of my favorites. Lasts hours per level, and sends a spell right back at the caster.
Another great one is globe of invulnerability (the mythic one in pathfinder is the greatest defense spell in the game.)
Others include protection from [your opposing alignments], lifeward, freedom of movement(best in permanent item form) and of course, shapechange the most abused spell in 3.5.

Thanks!
Are all of these core/srd and if they are not what books are they from?
ps why is shapechange so abusable? I hear it thrown around alot and my optimisation skills are not very good

Calthropstu
2016-09-05, 04:12 AM
Thanks!
Are all of these core/srd and if they are not what books are they from?
ps why is shapechange so abusable? I hear it thrown around alot and my optimisation skills are not very good

Because you gain access to all of a monsters su and ex abilities, and some monsters you can turn into have ridiculous powers, such as wish.

Zanos
2016-09-05, 04:16 AM
Greater Magic Weapon is good value. Scaling bonus to hit and damage for your attackers, lasts all day, and frees people up to get other enchantments on their weapons. Combine with a lesser metamagic rod of chain spell for maximum effect.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 04:18 AM
Because you gain access to all of a monsters su and ex abilities, and some monsters you can turn into have ridiculous powers, such as wish.
Free wishes? oh god that does sound powerfull. What are some good froms to be and what monsters gain the ability to use wish like that? I thoug you didn't ge the spells of the creature, with most creatures having wish as a SLA?

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 04:26 AM
Thanks!
Are all of these core/srd and if they are not what books are they from?
ps why is shapechange so abusable? I hear it thrown around alot and my optimisation skills are not very goid

Spell Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellTurning.htm)
Globe Of Invulnerability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerability.htm)
Protection From Evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm) (also comes in Good, Lawful, and Chaos flavors)
Freedom Of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm)
Shapechange (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm)
Death Ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm)

Lifeward is a spell from Spell Compendium that's basically Death Ward, except it protects you from positive energy instead of negative energy. Can't link to it, unfortunately, but it's a decent buff if you're undead.

As for why Shapechange is largely considered OP...well, it's less OP in Pathfinder, because you're ultimately limited to the properties allowed by the spells it grants access to for shapeshifting purposes, but 3.5 Shapechange is one of the most broken spells in the game, including Time Stop, Teleport Through Time, Gate, and Wish. Why? Because you after casting it, you can spend the next 3 hours taking a free action every round to turn into a different creature if you want to; you can turn into anything that isn't a unique creature and fits in the HD limit, and because 3.5 designers were crap at balancing monsters, there's a lot of good choices. Somewhere out there, in the many books filled with monsters, there's a monster with the perfect ability for the situation you're in, and you can turn into that monster. All you need to do is find that ability.

Want to go first in combat, but somebody beat you on initiative? You can free action into form of a Dire Tortoise, and now not only do you go first, you get a free surprise round on them. Want to adventure from the safety of your demiplane, but don't wanna waste 1000 gp every time you end the spell because some gith with a silver blade got uppity around your cord? Shapeshift into a Nightmare, and now you can cast it without needing a spell slot or that pesky material component. Want to make everybody at the table hate you forever? Turn into an Adamantine Horror and spam Implosion, or Disjunction. Want to fulfill your wildest dreams with a Wish spell, but find the money and XP costs far greater than you want to spend? Shapeshift into a Zodar, and just wish for it! No XP, no GP, just a literal wish fulfillment fantasy. Give yourself a ring of infinite levels, just because you can.

Do you have to abuse Shapechange to that degree? Of course not. But even just turning into a big giant, or a big dragon, or a powerful vampire, or an angel every round is a pile of hit points and special abilities your foes have to worry about. It's ridiculous.


Free wishes? oh god that does sound powerfull. What are some good froms to be and what monsters gain the ability to use wish like that? I thoug you didn't ge the spells of the creature, with most creatures having wish as a SLA?

Zodar has Wish as a Supernatural. Yes, it's incredibly stupidly powerful. Don't ever do this in a non-TO game unless you want books thrown at your head.

Khedrac
2016-09-05, 04:31 AM
Simple Invisibility can be a great buff, and it has a good duration.
Magic Circle Against Alignment has an OK duration and is nice for the blocking of mind control.
Mage Armor can be quite useful to buff the melee party members for incorporeal opponents.
Resist Energy is situational - if you know which one to cast it is great.

On the short-term front:
Greater Invisibility
Fly
Haste
Protection from Alignment
Nerveskitter

Bear's Endurance is useful for anyone without a Con item.

For self-buffs the list gets huge, some notable ones:
The Heart of Element line of spells is awesome - temporary hit points, full fortification, componentless stoneskin and freedom of movement.
See Invisible is almost essential.
Overland Flight has a good duration.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 04:34 AM
Lifeward is a spell from Spell Compendium that's basically Death Ward, except it protects you from positive energy instead of negative energy. Can't link to it, unfortunately, but it's a decent buff if you're undead.

As for why Shapechange is largely considered OP...well, it's less OP in Pathfinder, because you're ultimately limited to the properties allowed by the spells it grants access to for shapeshifting purposes, but 3.5 Shapechange is one of the most broken spells in the game, including Time Stop, Teleport Through Time, Gate, and Wish. Why? Because you after casting it, you can spend the next 3 hours taking a free action every round to turn into a different creature if you want to; you can turn into anything that isn't a unique creature and fits in the HD limit, and because 3.5 designers were crap at balancing monsters, there's a lot of good choices. Somewhere out there, in the many books filled with monsters, there's a monster with the perfect ability for the situation you're in, and you can turn into that monster. All you need to do is find that ability.

Want to go first in combat, but somebody beat you on initiative? You can free action into form of a Dire Tortoise, and now not only do you go first, you get a free surprise round on them. Want to adventure from the safety of your demiplane, but don't wanna waste 1000 gp every time you end the spell because some gith with a silver blade got uppity around your cord? Shapeshift into a Nightmare, and now you can cast it without needing a spell slot or that pesky material component. Want to make everybody at the table hate you forever? Turn into an Adamantine Horror and spam Implosion, or Disjunction. Want to fulfill your wildest dreams with a Wish spell, but find the money and XP costs far greater than you want to spend? Shapeshift into a Zodar, and just wish for it! No XP, no GP, just a literal wish fulfillment fantasy. Give yourself a ring of infinite levels, just because you can.

Do you have to abuse Shapechange to that degree? Of course not. But even just turning into a big giant, or a big dragon, or a powerful vampire, or an angel every round is a pile of hit points and special abilities your foes have to worry about. It's ridiculous.



Zodar has Wish as a Supernatural. Yes, it's incredibly stupidly powerful. Don't ever do this in a non-TO game unless you want books thrown at your head.
Why did the designers ever think that was balanced? How was that printed without someone thinking amiss of it? Wizards can do at at level 17 when fighters get a couple more hitpoints and +1 bab? I knows wizards are much better then fighters but this sounds ridiculous
Are there many other broken spells like this in core?

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 05:14 AM
Why did the designers ever think that was balanced?

Generally speaking, they were morons. Core was balanced well in this particular aspect: most every creature that gets Wish in Core has it as a Spell-Like, which Shapechange doesn't duplicate.


How was that printed without someone thinking amiss of it?

Well, firstly because a Zodar can only grant a Wish 1/year (IIRC). Unfortunately, the second reason they figured things like this were balanced enough is "they didn't think about the possibility of somebody Shapechanging into this thing". At least by the standard rules, If you Shapechange into a Zodar and use its Wish, you can't use that Wish again for a year...but if the next round, you turn into a puppy and the round after, you turn into a Zodar, that's not the same Zodar you turned into before, it's the same generic base Zodar with its full resources. Generally speaking, DMs putting a limit on that kind of thing makes it a bit more reasonable, but that's not how it works by the rules...and saying "it's not broken, because the DM can fix it" does more to prove it's broken than to prove it isn't.


Wizards can do at at level 17 when fighters get a couple more hitpoints and +1 bab? I knows wizards are much better then fighters but this sounds ridiculous
Are there many other broken spells like this in core?

You think this starts at level 17? Heh, that's funny. But yeah, there's a lot of broken stuff at 9th lvl, particularly in Core:

Wish lets you grant your own wishes. Now, wishes that have GP/XP costs aren't as good as wishes that don't have them, but they're still pretty awesome.

Time Stop gives you 2-5 rounds of free casting, at the expense of being unable to directly affect another person until the spell ends; these extra rounds can be particularly troublesome if the caster in question has Quicken Spell, any spells from the Celerity spell line, or other ways of breaking the action economy than they can stack on top of Time Stop. This lets you pile buffs onto yourself for several rounds, or lets you set up several long duration AoEs like Evard's Black Tentacles, Acid Fog, Cloudkill, Stinking Cloud, Incendiary Cloud, Forcecage, and so many more. Here's a good example of a mage using it right. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch.htm)

Mordenkainen's Disjunction is an AoE dispel effect. Any magic item in that area? Not magic anymore. Any spell effect in that area? Gone. Antimagic Field in that area? It can be turned off. Any artifacts in that area? They can be destroyed (although I don't recommend using it to destroy artifacts). But let's just focus on that first one: imagine if the BBEG tossed a Disjunction at your level 20 party, and canceled all their magic items in a single turn. How upset would you be? And how screwed would you be without your magic items? By the way, as mentioned in a previous post, there's a CR 9 Construct called an Adamantine Horror that gets this at-will, as well as a few other high-level at-wills like Implosion and (IIRC) Disintegrate.

Gate summons creatures to obey your commands for a short time, and can even summon unique beings. You are now, quite literally, the Angel Summoner. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw)

Astral Projection lets your wizard and his friends stay in the safety of the wizard's super-fortified tower/personal demiplane and adventure using bodies that aren't their own; if those bodies are killed, whatever, the real you is safe in the wizard's fortress. If you're using this spell from somewhere nobody else can get to, this makes lets you adventure without actually taking the risk of dying.

Soul Bind makes it so the BBEG's minions can't just resurrect him when you leave the room.

That's all just Core 9ths; there's plenty of broken stuff way before 17th lvl.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 05:39 AM
Generally speaking, they were morons. Core was balanced well in this particular aspect: most every creature that gets Wish in Core has it as a Spell-Like, which Shapechange doesn't duplicate.



Well, firstly because a Zodar can only grant a Wish 1/year (IIRC). Unfortunately, the second reason they figured things like this were balanced enough is "they didn't think about the possibility of somebody Shapechanging into this thing". At least by the standard rules, If you Shapechange into a Zodar and use its Wish, you can't use that Wish again for a year...but if the next round, you turn into a puppy and the round after, you turn into a Zodar, that's not the same Zodar you turned into before, it's the same generic base Zodar with its full resources. Generally speaking, DMs putting a limit on that kind of thing makes it a bit more reasonable, but that's not how it works by the rules...and saying "it's not broken, because the DM can fix it" does more to prove it's broken than to prove it isn't.



You think this starts at level 17? Heh, that's funny. But yeah, there's a lot of broken stuff at 9th lvl, particularly in Core:

Wish lets you grant your own wishes. Now, wishes that have GP/XP costs aren't as good as wishes that don't have them, but they're still pretty awesome.

Time Stop gives you 2-5 rounds of free casting, at the expense of being unable to directly affect another person until the spell ends; these extra rounds can be particularly troublesome if the caster in question has Quicken Spell, any spells from the Celerity spell line, or other ways of breaking the action economy than they can stack on top of Time Stop. This lets you pile buffs onto yourself for several rounds, or lets you set up several long duration AoEs like Evard's Black Tentacles, Acid Fog, Cloudkill, Stinking Cloud, Incendiary Cloud, Forcecage, and so many more.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction is an AoE dispel effect. Any magic item in that area? Not magic anymore. Any spell effect in that area? Gone. Antimagic Field in that area? It can be turned off. Any artifacts in that area? They can be destroyed (although I don't recommend using it to destroy artifacts). But let's just focus on that first one: imagine if the BBEG tossed a Disjunction at your level 20 party, and canceled all their magic items in a single turn. How upset would you be? And how screwed would you be without your magic items? By the way, as mentioned in a previous post, there's a CR 9 Construct called an Adamantine Horror that gets this at-will, as well as a few other high-level at-wills like Implosion and (IIRC) Disintegrate.

Gate summons creatures to obey your commands for a short time, and can even summon unique beings. You are now, quite literally,

Astral Projection lets your wizard and his friends stay in the safety of the wizard's super-fortified tower/personal demiplane and adventure using bodies that aren't their own; if those bodies are killed, whatever, the real you is safe in the wizard's fortress. If you're using this spell from somewhere nobody else can get to, this makes lets you adventure without actually taking the risk of dying.

Soul Bind makes it so the BBEG's minions can't just resurrect him when you leave the room.

That's all just Core 9ths; there's plenty of broken stuff way before 17th lvl.
Just...
wow
Thats really something
I heard some stuff about a low level spell shivering touch one shotting dragons or something
My system mastery i am guessing is incredibly low compared to the standard in this forum

Thanks for that

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 06:01 AM
Just...
wow
Thats really something
I heard some stuff about a low level spell shivering touch one shotting dragons or something
My system mastery i am guessing is incredibly low compared to the standard in this forum

Thanks for that

System Mastery is one of those things that takes a while to pick up is all. Spend enough time talking to weirdos like me around here, you'll pick up a lot of tricks. Talk to the right weirdos (not me) and you might even pick up some really good ones.

Shivering Touch is a touch range spell that deals 3d6 Dex damage as long as the target doesn't possess the [cold] subtype. Dragons have Touch AC 10 (or lower if they're bigger dragons) and almost universally have Dex 10; average damage from Shivering Touch is 10.5 Dex. So, on average, Shivering Touch one-shots a dragon by paralyzing it. In reality, you've got a 37.5% of leaving it un-paralyzed, and even when you paralyze it, there's debate over how long it'll stay paralyzed (although regardless of interpretation, it'll stay paralyzed long enough for your Big Fighter ally to shop its head off, so whatever). A good way to make this more useful is to either find a way to deliver it at a range greater than Touch (having a familiar deliver the touch spell, using Spectral Hand to deliver the spell, using Ocular Spell, etc) and a way of increasing the damage a bit always helps. For instance, an Empowered Shivering Touch deals 1.5*(3d6) Dex damage, and so paralyzes the dragon 90.74% of the time.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 06:29 AM
System Mastery is one of those things that takes a while to pick up is all. Spend enough time talking to weirdos like me around here, you'll pick up a lot of tricks. Talk to the right weirdos (not me) and you might even pick up some really good ones.

Shivering Touch is a touch range spell that deals 3d6 Dex damage as long as the target doesn't possess the [cold] subtype. Dragons have Touch AC 10 (or lower if they're bigger dragons) and almost universally have Dex 10; average damage from Shivering Touch is 10.5 Dex. So, on average, Shivering Touch one-shots a dragon by paralyzing it. In reality, you've got a 37.5% of leaving it un-paralyzed, and even when you paralyze it, there's debate over how long it'll stay paralyzed (although regardless of interpretation, it'll stay paralyzed long enough for your Big Fighter ally to shop its head off, so whatever). A good way to make this more useful is to either find a way to deliver it at a range greater than Touch (having a familiar deliver the touch spell, using Spectral Hand to deliver the spell, using Ocular Spell, etc) and a way of increasing the damage a bit always helps. For instance, an Empowered Shivering Touch deals 1.5*(3d6) Dex damage, and so paralyzes the dragon 90.74% of the time.

Sounds really powerful, especially with those ways to extend range
I thougt i read somehwere that dragons were over Cr'ed(or was it under CR'rd?) are ther simliar monster in the monster manuals that are too strong/weak that there cr would let on (like that admantite horror, i read up on implosion:smalleek: and it has that at-will? i sorta understand why WOTC get flack sometimes)
This forumn seems pretty old, Does it have a sort of thread where people have these kind of system mastery tricks or powerful combos?

Thanks

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 07:04 AM
Sounds really powerful, especially with those ways to extend range

It's a useful effect in the right situation (which happens a lot, since WotC made a lot of the supposedly tough monsters be basically brutes with high Str/Con and low Dex), but if a creature is immune to ability damage (undead, for instance) or has the cold subtype (quite a few creatures), they won't be affected at all.


I thougt i read somehwere that dragons were over Cr'ed(or was it under CR'rd?) are ther simliar monster in the monster manuals that are too strong/weak that there cr would let on (like that admantite horror, i read up on implosion:smalleek: and it has that at-will? i sorta understand why WOTC get flack sometimes)

Dragons in my experience are decently CR'd when you're not using cheap shots like Shivering Touch. Beyond their ridiculous base stats and skills and feats and abilities, they also have some build-in spellcasting once you start dealing with older dragons, and that helps protect them from getting ganked by high-level spells.

In regards to the Adamantine Horror the issue with that creature is that it wasn't designed with the intention of encountering it alone: it's intended to be part of a small swarm of constructs, and the whole group of them were designed to be a challenge for a CR 18 party. After WotC made the group a decent challenge for a CR 18 party, they then figured out the CR for each individual creature in order to fit that "CR 18 as a group" design focus. Unfortunately, this resulted in (among other things) a CR 9 creature with multiple 9th lvl at-will SLAs.

There's been lots of threads about monsters that aren't CR'd properly; google shall be your friend.


This forumn seems pretty old, Does it have a sort of thread where people have these kind of system mastery ticks or powerful combos?

Unfortunately no. Let it suffice to say that 3.5 is incredibly complicated (hundreds of templates/races, several dozen base classes, hundreds of prestige classes, thousands of spells, tens of thousands of feats), and compiling all the good stuff into a single thread would be impossible, I think. However, there's threads on just about any topic you can think of where things have been discussed to death a hundred times over, and if you can't find a thread for the thing you're looking for, you can always make a new one. A lot of well-known things, or particularly powerful things, will have had a handbook made for them at some point, and finding that via google is rarely difficult.

Is there anything in particular you're interested in learning about, besides Wizard Buffs?

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 07:39 AM
It's a useful effect in the right situation (which happens a lot, since WotC made a lot of the supposedly tough monsters be basically brutes with high Str/Con and low Dex), but if a creature is immune to ability damage (undead, for instance) or has the cold subtype (quite a few creatures), they won't be affected at all.



Dragons in my experience are decently CR'd when you're not using cheap shots like Shivering Touch. Beyond their ridiculous base stats and skills and feats and abilities, they also have some build-in spellcasting once you start dealing with older dragons, and that helps protect them from getting ganked by high-level spells.

In regards to the Adamantine Horror the issue with that creature is that it wasn't designed with the intention of encountering it alone: it's intended to be part of a small swarm of constructs, and the whole group of them were designed to be a challenge for a CR 18 party. After WotC made the group a decent challenge for a CR 18 party, they then figured out the CR for each individual creature in order to fit that "CR 18 as a group" design focus. Unfortunately, this resulted in (among other things) a CR 9 creature with multiple 9th lvl at-will SLAs.

There's been lots of threads about monsters that aren't CR'd properly; google shall be your friend.



Unfortunately no. Let it suffice to say that 3.5 is incredibly complicated (hundreds of templates/races, several dozen base classes, hundreds of prestige classes, thousands of spells, tens of thousands of feats), and compiling all the good stuff into a single thread would be impossible, I think. However, there's threads on just about any topic you can think of where things have been discussed to death a hundred times over, and if you can't find a thread for the thing you're looking for, you can always make a new one. A lot of well-known things, or particularly powerful things, will have had a handbook made for them at some point, and finding that via google is rarely difficult.

Is there anything in particular you're interested in learning about, besides Wizard Buffs?
thanks for the advice about googling stuff, ill have a look around for some useful useful stuff.
I have a question regarding the custom magic item rules in the SRD
1 Are these intended for player use or the dm for giving out treasure?
2 If its for player use could i buy a use activated weapon of truestrike for... 8000gp? basicly autohitting everything and very cheap, or am i missing something?
3 are these custom rules balanced or are they broken? and what book do the rules appear in, outside of the SRD
4 can these items be bought or do they have to be crafted?
( like you said before i have zero chance being the first to see this, but a quick google yeilds nothing)
Thanks in advance

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 08:01 AM
thanks for the advice about googling stuff, ill have a look around for some useful useful stuff.
I have a question regarding the custom magic item rules in the SRD
1 Are these intended for player use or the dm for giving out treasure?

The custom magic item rules are some general pricing guidelines for games where players want nonstandard items and DMs are okay with that. Generally speaking, they're considered close enough to RAW to use, but they're really a DM Judgement thing.


2 If its for player use could i buy a use activated weapon of truestrike for... 8000gp? basicly autohitting everything and very cheap, or am i missing something?

General opinion I've seen on this is that a use-activated ability requires the same action as casting the spell would; that said, it's kinda controversial, as some people see the 8000gp interpretation as more reasonable. I know this doesn't exactly mesh with the description of Use-Activated, but that interpretation is used to prevent powerful things like what you're suggesting from happening. Now, a Weapon of Use-Activated Quickened True Strike would cost 90000, which is quite a bit more, but not completely unaffordable by high levels. A more affordable way to basically guarantee all your melee attacks will hit would be an item giving you Continuous Wraithstrike (48000) which makes all your melee attacks target Touch AC. The Quickened True Strike will help your ranged attacks too, though, so it's still a nice option.


3 are these custom rules balanced or are they broken? and what book do the rules appear in, outside of the SRD

Everything that isn't about spellcasting is decently balanced, perhaps even overpriced in some ways. When spellcasting gets involved though, you get things like an item of Command Word Cure Light Wounds (tons of healing for 1800 gp) or an item of Command Word Mount (army of horses for 1800 gp). The only other part of the custom magic item rules that are generally acknowledged as broken is the part about "Other Considerations", where making an item's use limited to people with a certain skill/alignment/class makes it cheaper.


4 can these items be bought or do they have to be crafted?

Either one, it just depends on your whether your DM is allowing custom items.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 08:17 AM
The custom magic item rules are some general pricing guidelines for games where players want nonstandard items and DMs are okay with that. Generally speaking, they're considered close enough to RAW to use, but they're really a DM Judgement thing.



General opinion I've seen on this is that a use-activated ability requires the same action as casting the spell would; that said, it's kinda controversial, as some people see the 8000gp interpretation as more reasonable. I know this doesn't exactly mesh with the description of Use-Activated, but that interpretation is used to prevent powerful things like what you're suggesting from happening. Now, a Weapon of Use-Activated Quickened True Strike would cost 90000, which is quite a bit more, but not completely unaffordable by high levels. A more affordable way to basically guarantee all your melee attacks will hit would be an item giving you Continuous Wraithstrike (48000) which makes all your melee attacks target Touch AC. The Quickened True Strike will help your ranged attacks too, though, so it's still a nice option.



Everything that isn't about spellcasting is decently balanced, perhaps even overpriced in some ways. When spellcasting gets involved though, you get things like an item of Command Word Cure Light Wounds (tons of healing for 1800 gp) or an item of Command Word Mount (army of horses for 1800 gp). The only other part of the custom magic item rules that are generally acknowledged as broken is the part about "Other Considerations", where making an item's use limited to people with a certain skill/alignment/class makes it cheaper.



Either one, it just depends on your whether your DM is allowing custom items.
thanks, suppose the truestrike one was a bit too much to be hopefull for, but that wraithstrike item looks good and that seems like a nice spell, thanks

Ps what is a "command word cure light wounds" and command mount? a quick search doesn't reaveal anything and it sounds interesting
Pss i read somewhere that out of combat healing was plentiful with cure wound wands and something called persisted lesser mas vigour, which a search says it provide infinte healing but not how
Thanks a lot for answering my probably nooby questions

Eldariel
2016-09-05, 08:25 AM
Why did the designers ever think that was balanced? How was that printed without someone thinking amiss of it? Wizards can do at at level 17 when fighters get a couple more hitpoints and +1 bab? I knows wizards are much better then fighters but this sounds ridiculous
Are there many other broken spells like this in core?

It's always been like that. In older editions, shapechanging was more risky and it consumed the material components and reaching level 9 arcane spells in the first place was much harder, but it was certainly ridiculous.

As for other spells, well, the lesser Polymorph effects (Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object; as well as Draconic Polymorph [Draconomicon], various Xshape-spells [Spell Compendium]/[Player's Handbook II], etc.) are all very powerful, though not quite as powerful as Shapechange alone. Polymorph Any Object in particular can achieve permanent duration shapeshift and increase your intelligence. gain Outsider type and you can get base 22 Int from Planetar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelPlanetar). Indeed, a Gish in particular can make superb use of the Polymorph-spell in acquiring great stats and modes of attack; creatures that grant Pounce in particular fill an important hole in the normal Core buff suite. This listing (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519) does a decent job of cataloguing the options.

Planar Binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBindingLesser.htm)-effects are also completely broken as well as Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm). Planar Binding compels obedience with a Charisma-check (for which you can use Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm) to basically autowin it), while Gate allows asking for a short task (1 round/level) with no saves or rolls whatsoever; whatever cosmic power you call with HD up to twice your caster level will serve you. The options are ridiculous. Then there's also Simulacrum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm), which might have half the original's HD but the spell-likes are unaffected. Its big brother, Ice Assassin [Frostburn], is easily one of the most ridiculous spells ever printed.


Anyways, basically, minionmancy in general is real good. Keeping your own Zombie Dragon for flight or like a Zombie/Skeleton Hydra for fighting is also not a bad idea should you run across usable creatures (or go hunting for them - also remember Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm), which can take anything mindless and has no limits whatsoever). Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) allows controlling up to 4 HD per caster level. You can keep a couple of Zombie/Skeleton Hydras around, buff 'em and go to town. Simulacrum/Planar Binding/etc. are just more ridiculous forms of minionmancy that grant you creatures with spell-likes, supernaturals and such abilities. Undead are mostly good for the Fighter duty, though again e.g. Hydras, particularly buffed, are really good at it. You can also get more versatile undead with Animate Dread Warrior [Unapproachable East]


As for general Wizard-buffing:
Level 1 (and comboes/improved versions)
Mage Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageArmor.htm)/Greater Mage Armor [Spell Compendium, Level 3]/Greater Luminous Armor : Basic AC buff. Not worth that much but you have little reason not to cast it. Greater Luminous Armor is actually a rather huge buff but on the downswing it has a sacrifice component (being an Exalted spell; nothing a Lesser Restoration can't handle tho) and it makes hiding very hard.

Protection from Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm): Always suppresses mind control effects, no matter their alignment. Then [b]also grants the Deflection/Resistance bonuses and protection from summoned creatures. Very nice, but completely supplanted by Magic Circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm) (lasts longer, AOE, Level 3).

Shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm): Short duration spell, but grants decent AC bonus and blocks Magic Missiles which might be hard to negate entirely otherwise.

Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm): Hide your items' and spells' auras enabling you to hide from arcane detection. Very nice, though Magic Aura itself might or might not register. At least it's just a faint spell.

Karmic Aura [Complete Mage]/Karmic Backlash [Complete Mage, Level 3]/Karmic Retribution [Complete Mage, Level 6]: Anyone damaging you (with attack, spell or whatever) saves vs. becoming fatigued. Backlash causes exhaustion and Retribution causes stun. They conveniently combine so that failing the save vs. one fails the save vs. all the lower level ones as well. Swift action, though rounds/level.

Master's Touch [Spell Compendium]: Gains you proficiency with any weapon or shield for a while. Not bad for a first level slot.

Guided Shot [Spell Compendium]: Ignore all annoying penalties on e.g. Rays. Only lasts for 1 round without persisting though. Still nice.


Level 2
False Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm): You can even metamagic it for more HP (generally not worth it). One of those "why not"-spells: though if you bother to gain damage immunity, then you obviously don't really care that much (just enough to be safe from Power Word spells).

Craft Magic Tattoo [Spell Compendium]: Increase your caster level, get various buffs, overall a great spell at a very affordable cost and a good duration.

Resist Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resistEnergy.htm): Good duration, resist 30 is pretty significant. Cast a few, have a nice day. Note though, Energy Immunity [Spell Compendium, level 7] eventually makes this superfluous.

See Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/seeInvisibility.htm): Not the best but convenient enough as it can be Permanencied. Probably worth having it active just in case your True Seeing/Arcane Sight/etc. fail.

Alter Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm): Have a guide (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811). Off the top of my head, Avariel [Races of Faerun] grants flight, Asabi [Magic of Faerun] grants burrow and Troglodyte (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troglodyte.htm) has Stench/Natural Weapons/+6 Natural Armor for combat. Otherwise, skill bonuses and what-have-you. Other types get greater bonuses (an Outsider such as Neraphim [Planar Handbook] or Humanoid with Otherworldly [Player's Guide to Faerun]-feat can turn into a Dwarf Ancestor [Monster Manual IV] with their 18 Natural Armor for instance - conveniently they also have all Martial Weapon Proficiencies as per Outsider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType)-type).

Wraithstrike [Spell Compendium]: Swift action, for 1 round/level, all your attacks are touch attacks. Have fun with that.

Mirror Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirrorImage.htm)/Greater Mirror Image [Player's Handbook II]: Greater Mirror Image is an immediate action version of the spell and the Mirror Images regenerate. A superb defensive effect either way.

Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm)/Invisibility Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilitySphere.htm) [Level 3]/Greater Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityGreater.htm) [Level 4]: Invisibility and Sphere are for stealthy approach, scouting, first strike, etc. while Greater Invisibility absolutely destroys opponents that can't see invisibles. Superior Invisibility [Spell Compendium, Level 8] is just way better but much higher level as well.

Heroics [Spell Compendium]: Gain any martial feat you qualify for. For 10 mins/level. Yeah. Martial Study [Tome of Battle] for e.g. save-with-Concentration maneuvers is nice, as well as any Gishy stuff you might wanna do (perhaps synergise with your Polymorph form? Cast multiple times? Endless options).

Wings of Air [Spell Compendium]: Nice if you're flying with e.g. Overland Flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm) (Average manoeuvrability); lasts only 1 min/level though, generally better to just have Overland Flight as a backup and actually fly with e.g. Polymorph Any Object form and Phantom Steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm) (240' movement with Fly and Air Walk, one of the best modes of movement in the game), or perhaps a Zombie Dragon (they fly at a nice pace).

Heart of Air [Complete Mage]: Fly-speed bonus and Feather Fall on command. Most importantly though, it combines with the other Heart-spells to grant crit/precision damage immunity.


Level 3

Anticipate Teleportation [Spell Compendium]: One of the much-needed counters to Teleport. One round of prep time and enemy is stuck in a limbo (not the Limbo) if they teleport near you. Allows surprising/capturing attackers with great efficiency and makes Scry'n'Die infeasible (or at least more difficult as the enemy has to approach from outside your Anticipate Teleportation radius). Note, affects allies as well. Greater [Spell Compendium, Level 6] version traps 'em longer but generally you don't need that much time; arguable if it's worth 3 spell levels.

Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSight.htm): One of the most useful sight modes. Not limited to line of sight, so it goes through walls and so on. Almost everyone remotely relevant carries magic items or spells so anyone who hasn't bothered to ward everything they have with Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm) is visible (btw, Magic Aura is a great spell). It might even see Magic Aura itself so that isn't a complete protection either. Permanency!

Heart of Water [Complete Mage]: You want this so bad! Swim-speed and waterbreathing are whatever but it can be subsumed to gain Freedom of Movement, an effect casters very much want and Wizards would have to jump through hoops to get otherwise! Oh, and the crit immunity stuff is nice too.

Battlemagic Perception [Heroes of Battle]: One of the better spells for fighting other casters. You can sense spellcasting within 100' and end the spell to counterspell that spell. Lasts 10 min/level. Sweet. Duelward [Spell Compendium, Level 5] is a similar spell; worse in every way but you can have both active.

Heroism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroism.htm)/Greater Heroism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroismGreater.htm) [Level 6]: A nice set of numeric buffs. Too bad Morale-bonuses don't work with Mind Blank (but Mind Blank is way more important). Until then, enjoy! Greater grants more bonuses and temporary HP but only lasts rounds/level. You can always get by before Mind Blank with something like Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) or something. Or hope//pray. Not a good option, but an option.

Blink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blink.htm)/Greater Blink [Spell Compendium, Level 5]: Walk through walls, 50% miss chance, "fly", etc. Normal one slows you down and has a chance of your spells ending up on the Ethereal. Greater is completely controllable and a superb spell.

Haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm): One of the best buffs in the game (though only combat buff unless you are into the business of Persistomancy). Buff your whole team, unleash the can of kickass. Taken to a whole different level by Swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) PRC.

Greater Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm): Free +5 weapons for everybody!

Keen Edge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/keenEdge.htm)/Weapon of Impact [Spell Compendium]: It's now Keen! "Only" 10 mins/level. Weapon of Impact is the same ability for bludgeoning weapons.

Greater Mighty Wallop [Races of the Dragon]: Increases a bludgeoning weapon's damage category. So your medium weapon can do Colossal damage. To put it into perspective, a medium Greatclub does 1d10 base damage; it goes 2d8 > 3d8 > 4d8 > 6d8 for a Colossal one. Pretty sweet. And of course, further size increases always make it even better.

Spikes [Spell Compendium]: Only 1 round/level, but a wooden weapon becomes +2, doubles in crit range and gets +10 (or Caster Level) in bonus damage. Pretty sweet overall.

Flame Arrow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameArrow.htm): And hell, all your arrows are now Fiery (btw, metamagicking this up is bound to cause confusion: e.g. Fell Drain [Libris Mortis] Flame Arrow to make the arrows bestow negative levels, if the spell is seen as the source of the damage).

Shrink Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm): You can do all sorts of tricks with this and Antimagic Fields (though they can expand by just throwing them). Like throw a shrunk pebble into an AMF and as it enters, it expands into a giant boulder. Or Shrink your Riverine Cone hat; if you enter an AMF, it covers you and protects you from the effect. Or make bombs or whatever.

Explosive Runes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm): You can cast a bunch of Explosive Runes on something and have e.g. your planar bound/simulacrum minion cast Dispel Magic on said object and fail (you can engineer it so they always fail). Boom. No save, lots of d6 Force damage. Plus, y'know, you can play Vaarsuvius. Less versatile than Shrink Item but can generate incredible amounts of damage. Note through, Abjurations near the same object generate energy fluctuations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#abjuration) so people might know what's up.

Girallon's Blessing [Spell Compendium] + Fuse Arms [Spell Compendium]: Generate extra arms. Turn them into extra strength. 10 mins/level.

Enhance/Fortify Familiar [Spell Compendium]: If you wanna use it in combat, might as well give it some small bonuses.

Phantom Steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm): Mentioned already, at caster level 14 the best flight you can have (easily). Combine with a backup in case it gets destroyed. It's rather squishy though you can always ward it if desired of course.


Level 4

Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm): As I touched upon earlier, this spell is kind of a big deal. Best buff for its level and one of the best in the game with no extra work. Outsider type makes it much stronger as does Assume Supernatural Ability [Savage Species]/Metamorphic Transfer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#metamorphicTransfer), to the point of absurdity.

Trollshape [Player's Handbook II]: One of the earliest ways to gain regeneration. If you also get immunity to non-lethal damage (Favor of the Martyr [Spell Compendium] is one of the better ways, but normally a Pally-only spell; need some way to access it such as Limited Wish) and Fire/Acid, you're mostly just immune to damage in general. Delay Death [Spell Compendium] + Beastland Ferocity [Spell Compendium] are two spells that can be used to about the same effect; neither is natively a Wizard-spell though and they take some effort to Persist.

Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/minorCreation.htm): Hours/level. This can create, among others, plant-based poisons (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2714). Knock yourself out (though mind, immunities are pretty common higher up).

Friendly Fire [Exemplars of Evil]: Nothing like complete immunity to range attacks with the added option of redirecting them to nearby targets.

Ray Deflection [Spell Compendium]: If Friendly Fire didn't exist, this'd be a great spell. As it stands, meh, whatever.

Heart of Earth [Complete Mage]: Good on its own with Stoneskin, temporary HP and bonuses vs. combat maneuvers. Again, Greater Fortifications once you assemble Exodia.

Spell Enhancer [Spell Compendium]: +2 Caster Level to your next spell. Good for buffing e.g. Greater Magic Weapon/Spell Resistance-type effects where you just want caster level as high as possible to maximize the effect. Also nice for avoiding dispels.

Bite of the Werewolf [Spell Compendium]/Bite of the Wereboar [Spell Compendium, Level 5]/Bite of the Weretiger [Spell Compendium, Level 6]/Bite of the Werebear [Spell Compendium, Level 7]: One of the better buff spells. Its smaller brother, Bite of the Wererat isn't worth bothering with but this is getting somewhere. Natural Attacks, stat bonuses (enhancement, but saves you the time of getting items), natural armor bonuses and bonus feats. They get gradually better with Bite of the Werebear eventually granting +16 Str/+2 Dex/+8 Con, +7 Natural Armor, Claw/Claw/Bite, Multiattack/Power Attack/Blind-Fight. Particularly the stat enhancements are some of the highest in the game. Obviously you just use weapons anyways, but the Bite at -2 is a nice, free bonus.

Resistance, Greater [Spell Compendium]/Resistance, Superior [Spell Compendium, Level 6]: +3 Resistance to saves. No need to bother with that Cloak of Resistance, and lasts for 24 hours. Superior Resistance grants +6 which is a pretty good place to be at. You don't want to fail saves.

Darkvision, Superior [Unapproachable East]: 1 hour/level of infinite range Darkvision. If the milieu calls for it, this can be your spell though it doesn't grant you any magical detection capabilities like True Seeing does. Might want to combine with Vision of the Omniscient Eye [Dragon Magic] for some superior vision capabilities.

Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerability.htm): Decent buff; there are some annoying level 3- spells such as Silence and company. Mostly you can counter them through other means though. Higher level versions are generally not worth the trouble.


Level 5

Magic Jar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm): Well, this can be used to take over bodies. Technically, two consecutive castings allow taking over a body permanently. Cast first Jar, take over a body, cast second Jar while in the new stolen body, and have a minion move the now empty stolen body out of range while you're in the second Jar. Then end the first spell (through e.g. breaking the jar with your minion): since you're neither in the host body nor in the magic jar (the spell refers to the original, hence the definite form) nothing happens to you but your victim dies. And you, you just return to the now-your-body from the second Magic Jar and call it a day. You can Gate in something to steal or have some other host prepared. Either way, quite convenient for when you want an actual physical body, and permanent duration isn't enough. Also a good save-or-die effect if you can hide the Jar in a convenient place.

Draconic Polymorph [Draconomicon]: It's like Polymorph but higher HD limit and you get further stat bonuses upon shifting. Only personal. Yeah, it's pretty good.

Heart of Fire [Complete Mage]: Kinda lousy as a spell itself, but the combine bonus is nice.

Channeled Lifetheft [Complete Mage]: You can get a huge amount of Temporary HP if you e.g. summon something to drain. It's not a bad one.

Major Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm): Same as with Minor Creation, except more versatile.

Telepathic Bond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telepathicBond.htm)/Interplanar Telepathic Bond [Spell Compendium]: Surely I don't need to extol the virtues of being able to communicate wordlessly at any distance.


Level 6

Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm): Prepare a generic status and a generic answer. You only get one so can't afford to get specific. Speaking is a free action that can be done out of turn order so that's a good way to trigger this; saying some specific word you'd never say otherwise. As for generic answers, putting yourself in Resilient Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resilientSphere.htm), Dimension Door/Teleporting or similar are all good answers. If you can't cast this, you can use Greater Shadow Evocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowEvocationGreater.htm).

True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm): I shouldn't need to say much here.

Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm): One of the best defenses in the game if you can somehow enable yourself to cast inside it (Selective Spell [Shining South], Initiate of Mystra [Player's Guide to Faerun] or similar). It's okay if you exclude yourself with e.g. Archmage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/archmage.htm)'s Mastery of Shaping or Extraordinary Spell Aim [Complete Adventurer]; particularly good for melee in such a case (consider Widening it to affect larger opponents).

Eyes of the Oracle [Dragon Magic]: Ready an action each turn? It's basically an extra action. Yeah, this is pretty darn good; comes with other perks too. Only rounds/level and discharged when you use the readied action, but not bad at being always prepared for whatever is gonna happen.

Tenser's Transformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm): I'll just list this here to remind you to avoid using this. If you want a spell that buffs your BAB, instead look for a way to cast Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) (such as Arcane Disciple [Complete Divine]); it doesn't cost you your casting ability and the bonuses are better and it's lower level.

Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability [Spell Compendium]: Why cast your spells yourself when your familiar can do half the job for you? Pretty nice.

Brilliant Blade [Spell Compendium]: Makes weapon or 50 ammunition Brilliant Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#brilliantEnergy). For melee, worse than Wraithstrike but can be useful for ranged weapons or an ally's weapon.


Level 7

Arcane Spellsurge [Dragon Magic]: Your standard action spells become swift action to cast. Your full-round action spells become standards. For someone who likes to fight, this is just godlike (and for anyone else for that matter). Just mind, you can't ignore the effect: thus all your standard action spells are swift actions. Thus you'll need something to do with your standard/full-round actions. If you're Dragonblooded (e.g. Silverbrow Human [Dragon Magic]), casting this spell is a swift action.

Ironguard [Spell Compendium]: Iron weapons pass through you harmlessly. A rather good surprise tactic though mind the natural weapons.

Ghost Trap [Spell Compendium]: An incredibly solid anti-incorporeal/ethereal option; makes incorporeals corporeal and plain blocks ethereals. No saves.

Energy Immunity [Spell Compendium]: Just repeating, this makes you immune to an energy type. Lava swim, space travel, whatever, fire/cold/whatever won't kill you (though mind other things like pressure, breathing, etc.).

Planar Bubble [Spell Compendium]: What it takes to be a native of a plane is a bit unclear but if you can be the native of some cool plane, you can bring about all those cool effects with you. Planar Shepherd [Faiths of Eberron] has an easy means but for you, perhaps you need to change into something or reincarnate into something or whatever. Either way, this can be an immense buff (e.g. time traits can allow acting many times per each enemy action, metamagic traits can allow free quickening or whatever).

Elemental Body [Spell Compendium]: A decent enough hours/level buff. Pick carefully, use other spells to make up for your weaknesses.

Brilliant Aura [Spell Compendium]: Well, your team might appreciate the help.

Spell Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellTurning.htm): Can be convenient against casters. Also has a hilarious interaction with itself.
Foresight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm): Minor stat buffs but most importantly, you're never flat-footed and gain minor warnings on how to avoid threats (how DM interprets that is up to them; few DMs can truly make this spell as strong as it really is).

Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm): Send disposable copies of yourself to adventure; why put yourself at risk? Also allows replicating your items, planar travel basically anywhere and so on. A very powerful and versatile spell. Can be acquired through Lesser Planar Binding in the form of Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).

Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm): Initiative is essentially a Dex-check so this might work there. Anyways, there are lots of random uses for this, such as the aforementioned Planar Binding.

Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm): Become anything, permanently with two castings (first might not have infinite duration but a second change into the same shape certainly does). You only get stats, natural weapons, natural armor, natural abilities and extraordinary special attacks but that tends to be plenty. Obsoletes Polymorph, can be used on the whole party should they so desire.

Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm): Without a doubt the most important defensive spell in the game. There are effects that are no-save just lose targeting Will-save such as Irresistible Dance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/irresistibleDance.htm) or Geas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) (can be cast in a standard action through Limited Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm)). Further, Scrying (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm) and similar effects enable surprise attacks at will and will succeed eventually with sufficient castings. Mind Blank puts a stop to that. It costs you access to Morale bonuses but that's a small price to pay.

Greater Prying Eyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyesGreater.htm): A couple of floating eyeballs with True Seeing for hours/level, no material component. Quite convenient things.

Other sources:
Hide Life [Tome & Blood]: Allows you to put your lifeforce into some small object. Essentially makes you completely and utterly invulnerable unless that object can be found (and you can hide it within yourself or something). You can always just get a scroll; invulnerability is kinda good.

Chain Contingency [Tome & Blood]: Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) (tied to e.g. Celerity [Player's Handbook II] or Teleport or such) is generally enough to get you out of any problem, but Chain Contingency goes the extra mile to grant you 3 spells (kinda like Simbul's Spell Sequencer [Player's Guide to Faerun] but actually lasts long enough to be useful at 1 day/level)

Elminster's Evasion [Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings]/Instant Refuge [Spell Compendium] are other 9th level Contingency-variants. Quite useful.


For short duration buffs, both Ghostform [Spell Compendium] and Superior Invisibility [Spell Compendium] are very powerful and indeed, it takes specific preparation to deal with either. Short duraiton though so hard to use unless you can Persist them (Persistent Spell [Complete Arcane] can be applied even to high level spells by some prestige classes such as Incantatrix [Player's Guide to Faerun] or Spelldancer [Magic of Faerun]).
That's the big ones off the top of my head. I'm sure people will add plenty more as we go (or have already).

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 08:38 AM
thanks, suppose the truestrike one was a bit too much to be hopefull for, but that wraithstrike item looks good and that seems like a nice spell, thanks

Ps what is a "command word cure light wounds" and command mount? a quick search doesn't reaveal anything and it sounds interesting
Pss i read somewhere that out of combat healing was plentiful with cure wound wands and something called persisted lesser mas vigour, which a search says it provide infinte healing but not how
Thanks a lot for answering my probably nooby questions

Wraithstrike is a good spell to put in an item, but because when actually cast it only lasts a round, it's only situationally useful. Still, nice spell for its level.

"Command Word" is one of the options for spellcasting items; it's the option above "Use-Activated/Continuous". (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

A Wand of CLW and items of Command Word CLW are good out-of-combat healing; that said, wands have limited charges, and eventually run out, while the Command Word item has infinite uses. A Wand of CLW costs 750 gp, where the Command Word custom item cost 1800, but that just means that the Command Word custom item starts becoming the more affordable choice after you've worked your way through a couple of wands.

Mass Lesser Vigor is a 3rd lvl Cleric/Druid spell that gives "Fast Healing 1" to 1 creature per 2 CL; Persistent Spell is a metamagic feat that increases a spell's effective level by 6 in exchange for making it last 24 hours. Now normally, a Persisted "Mass Lesser Vigor" would require a 9th lvl spell slot, but if the cleric who took the "Persistent Spell" metamagic feat also took the "Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)" feat, they would be able to substitute uses of Turn Undead for the spell level increase (at 1+the spell level increase, minimum 1). Thus, if that cleric used 7 Turn attempts, he could Persist that 3rd lvl spell without using a higher level spell slot. This is generally referred to as "DMM Persist", and is one of the reasons clerics are pretty powerful: they can make a bunch of their awesome cleric buff spells last all day.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 08:43 AM
It's always been like that. In older editions, shapechanging was more risky and it consumed the material components and reaching level 9 arcane spells in the first place was much harder, but it was certainly ridiculous.

As for other spells, well, the lesser Polymorph effects (Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object; as well as Draconic Polymorph [Draconomicon], various Xshape-spells [Spell Compendium]/[Player's Handbook II], etc.) are all very powerful, though not quite as powerful as Shapechange alone. Polymorph Any Object in particular can achieve permanent duration shapeshift and increase your intelligence. gain Outsider type and you can get base 22 Int from Planetar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelPlanetar). Indeed, a Gish in particular can make superb use of the Polymorph-spell in acquiring great stats and modes of attack; creatures that grant Pounce in particular fill an important hole in the normal Core buff suite. This listing (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519) does a decent job of cataloguing the options.

Planar Binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBindingLesser.htm)-effects are also completely broken as well as Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm). Planar Binding compels obedience with a Charisma-check (for which you can use Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm) to basically autowin it), while Gate allows asking for a short task (1 round/level) with no saves or rolls whatsoever; whatever cosmic power you call with HD up to twice your caster level will serve you. The options are ridiculous. Then there's also Simulacrum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm), which might have half the original's HD but the spell-likes are unaffected. Its big brother, Ice Assassin [Frostburn], is easily one of the most ridiculous spells ever printed.


Anyways, basically, minionmancy in general is real good. Keeping your own Zombie Dragon for flight or like a Zombie/Skeleton Hydra for fighting is also not a bad idea should you run across usable creatures (or go hunting for them - also remember Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm), which can take anything mindless and has no limits whatsoever). Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) allows controlling up to 4 HD per caster level. You can keep a couple of Zombie/Skeleton Hydras around, buff 'em and go to town. Simulacrum/Planar Binding/etc. are just more ridiculous forms of minionmancy that grant you creatures with spell-likes, supernaturals and such abilities. Undead are mostly good for the Fighter duty, though again e.g. Hydras, particularly buffed, are really good at it. You can also get more versatile undead with Animate Dread Warrior [Unapproachable East]


As for general Wizard-buffing:
Level 1 (and comboes/improved versions)
Mage Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageArmor.htm)/Greater Mage Armor [Spell Compendium, Level 3]/Greater Luminous Armor : Basic AC buff. Not worth that much but you have little reason not to cast it. Greater Luminous Armor is actually a rather huge buff but on the downswing it has a sacrifice component (being an Exalted spell; nothing a Lesser Restoration can't handle tho) and it makes hiding very hard.

Protection from Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm): Always suppresses mind control effects, no matter their alignment. Then [b]also grants the Deflection/Resistance bonuses and protection from summoned creatures. Very nice, but completely supplanted by Magic Circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm) (lasts longer, AOE, Level 3).

Shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm): Short duration spell, but grants decent AC bonus and blocks Magic Missiles which might be hard to negate entirely otherwise.

Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm): Hide your items' and spells' auras enabling you to hide from arcane detection. Very nice, though Magic Aura itself might or might not register. At least it's just a faint spell.

Karmic Aura [Complete Mage]/Karmic Backlash [Complete Mage, Level 3]/Karmic Retribution [Complete Mage, Level 6]: Anyone damaging you (with attack, spell or whatever) saves vs. becoming fatigued. Backlash causes exhaustion and Retribution causes stun. They conveniently combine so that failing the save vs. one fails the save vs. all the lower level ones as well. Swift action, though rounds/level.

Master's Touch [Spell Compendium]: Gains you proficiency with any weapon or shield for a while. Not bad for a first level slot.

Guided Shot [Spell Compendium]: Ignore all annoying penalties on e.g. Rays. Only lasts for 1 round without persisting though. Still nice.


Level 2
False Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm): You can even metamagic it for more HP (generally not worth it). One of those "why not"-spells: though if you bother to gain damage immunity, then you obviously don't really care that much (just enough to be safe from Power Word spells).

Craft Magic Tattoo [Spell Compendium]: Increase your caster level, get various buffs, overall a great spell at a very affordable cost and a good duration.

Resist Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resistEnergy.htm): Good duration, resist 30 is pretty significant. Cast a few, have a nice day. Note though, Energy Immunity [Spell Compendium, level 7] eventually makes this superfluous.

See Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/seeInvisibility.htm): Not the best but convenient enough as it can be Permanencied. Probably worth having it active just in case your True Seeing/Arcane Sight/etc. fail.

Alter Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm): Have a guide (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811). Off the top of my head, Avariel [Races of Faerun] grants flight, Asabi [Magic of Faerun] grants burrow and Troglodyte (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troglodyte.htm) has Stench/Natural Weapons/+6 Natural Armor for combat. Otherwise, skill bonuses and what-have-you. Other types get greater bonuses (an Outsider such as Neraphim [Planar Handbook] or Humanoid with Otherworldly [Player's Guide to Faerun]-feat can turn into a Dwarf Ancestor [Monster Manual IV] with their 18 Natural Armor for instance - conveniently they also have all Martial Weapon Proficiencies as per Outsider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType)-type).

Wraithstrike [Spell Compendium]: Swift action, for 1 round/level, all your attacks are touch attacks. Have fun with that.

Mirror Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirrorImage.htm)/Greater Mirror Image [Player's Handbook II]: Greater Mirror Image is an immediate action version of the spell and the Mirror Images regenerate. A superb defensive effect either way.

Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm)/Invisibility Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilitySphere.htm) [Level 3]/Greater Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityGreater.htm) [Level 4]: Invisibility and Sphere are for stealthy approach, scouting, first strike, etc. while Greater Invisibility absolutely destroys opponents that can't see invisibles. Superior Invisibility [Spell Compendium, Level 8] is just way better but much higher level as well.

Heroics [Spell Compendium]: Gain any martial feat you qualify for. For 10 mins/level. Yeah. Martial Study [Tome of Battle] for e.g. save-with-Concentration maneuvers is nice, as well as any Gishy stuff you might wanna do (perhaps synergise with your Polymorph form? Cast multiple times? Endless options).

Wings of Air [Spell Compendium]: Nice if you're flying with e.g. Overland Flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm) (Average manoeuvrability); lasts only 1 min/level though, generally better to just have Overland Flight as a backup and actually fly with e.g. Polymorph Any Object form and Phantom Steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm) (240' movement with Fly and Air Walk, one of the best modes of movement in the game), or perhaps a Zombie Dragon (they fly at a nice pace).

Heart of Air [Complete Mage]: Fly-speed bonus and Feather Fall on command. Most importantly though, it combines with the other Heart-spells to grant crit/precision damage immunity.


Level 3

Anticipate Teleportation [Spell Compendium]: One of the much-needed counters to Teleport. One round of prep time and enemy is stuck in a limbo (not the Limbo) if they teleport near you. Allows surprising/capturing attackers with great efficiency and makes Scry'n'Die infeasible (or at least more difficult as the enemy has to approach from outside your Anticipate Teleportation radius). Note, affects allies as well. Greater [Spell Compendium, Level 6] version traps 'em longer but generally you don't need that much time; arguable if it's worth 3 spell levels.

Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSight.htm): One of the most useful sight modes. Not limited to line of sight, so it goes through walls and so on. Almost everyone remotely relevant carries magic items or spells so anyone who hasn't bothered to ward everything they have with Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm) is visible (btw, Magic Aura is a great spell). It might even see Magic Aura itself so that isn't a complete protection either. Permanency!

Heart of Water [Complete Mage]: You want this so bad! Swim-speed and waterbreathing are whatever but it can be subsumed to gain Freedom of Movement, an effect casters very much want and Wizards would have to jump through hoops to get otherwise! Oh, and the crit immunity stuff is nice too.

Battlemagic Perception [Heroes of Battle]: One of the better spells for fighting other casters. You can sense spellcasting within 100' and end the spell to counterspell that spell. Lasts 10 min/level. Sweet. Duelward [Spell Compendium, Level 5] is a similar spell; worse in every way but you can have both active.

Heroism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroism.htm)/Greater Heroism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroismGreater.htm) [Level 6]: A nice set of numeric buffs. Too bad Morale-bonuses don't work with Mind Blank (but Mind Blank is way more important). Until then, enjoy! Greater grants more bonuses and temporary HP but only lasts rounds/level. You can always get by before Mind Blank with something like Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) or something. Or hope//pray. Not a good option, but an option.

Blink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blink.htm)/Greater Blink [Spell Compendium, Level 5]: Walk through walls, 50% miss chance, "fly", etc. Normal one slows you down and has a chance of your spells ending up on the Ethereal. Greater is completely controllable and a superb spell.

Haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm): One of the best buffs in the game (though only combat buff unless you are into the business of Persistomancy). Buff your whole team, unleash the can of kickass. Taken to a whole different level by Swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) PRC.

Greater Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm): Free +5 weapons for everybody!

Keen Edge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/keenEdge.htm)/Weapon of Impact [Spell Compendium]: It's now Keen! "Only" 10 mins/level. Weapon of Impact is the same ability for bludgeoning weapons.

Greater Mighty Wallop [Races of the Dragon]: Increases a bludgeoning weapon's damage category. So your medium weapon can do Colossal damage. To put it into perspective, a medium Greatclub does 1d10 base damage; it goes 2d8 > 3d8 > 4d8 > 6d8 for a Colossal one. Pretty sweet. And of course, further size increases always make it even better.

Spikes [Spell Compendium]: Only 1 round/level, but a wooden weapon becomes +2, doubles in crit range and gets +10 (or Caster Level) in bonus damage. Pretty sweet overall.

Flame Arrow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameArrow.htm): And hell, all your arrows are now Fiery (btw, metamagicking this up is bound to cause confusion: e.g. Fell Drain [Libris Mortis] Flame Arrow to make the arrows bestow negative levels, if the spell is seen as the source of the damage).

Shrink Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm): You can do all sorts of tricks with this and Antimagic Fields (though they can expand by just throwing them). Like throw a shrunk pebble into an AMF and as it enters, it expands into a giant boulder. Or Shrink your Riverine Cone hat; if you enter an AMF, it covers you and protects you from the effect. Or make bombs or whatever.

Explosive Runes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm): You can cast a bunch of Explosive Runes on something and have e.g. your planar bound/simulacrum minion cast Dispel Magic on said object and fail (you can engineer it so they always fail). Boom. No save, lots of d6 Force damage. Plus, y'know, you can play Vaarsuvius. Less versatile than Shrink Item but can generate incredible amounts of damage. Note through, Abjurations near the same object generate energy fluctuations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#abjuration) so people might know what's up.

Girallon's Blessing [Spell Compendium] + Fuse Arms [Spell Compendium]: Generate extra arms. Turn them into extra strength. 10 mins/level.

Enhance/Fortify Familiar [Spell Compendium]: If you wanna use it in combat, might as well give it some small bonuses.

Phantom Steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm): Mentioned already, at caster level 14 the best flight you can have (easily). Combine with a backup in case it gets destroyed. It's rather squishy though you can always ward it if desired of course.


Level 4

Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm): As I touched upon earlier, this spell is kind of a big deal. Best buff for its level and one of the best in the game with no extra work. Outsider type makes it much stronger as does Assume Supernatural Ability [Savage Species]/Metamorphic Transfer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#metamorphicTransfer), to the point of absurdity.

Trollshape [Player's Handbook II]: One of the earliest ways to gain regeneration. If you also get immunity to non-lethal damage (Favor of the Martyr [Spell Compendium] is one of the better ways, but normally a Pally-only spell; need some way to access it such as Limited Wish) and Fire/Acid, you're mostly just immune to damage in general. Delay Death [Spell Compendium] + Beastland Ferocity [Spell Compendium] are two spells that can be used to about the same effect; neither is natively a Wizard-spell though and they take some effort to Persist.

Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/minorCreation.htm): Hours/level. This can create, among others, plant-based poisons (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2714). Knock yourself out (though mind, immunities are pretty common higher up).

Friendly Fire [Exemplars of Evil]: Nothing like complete immunity to range attacks with the added option of redirecting them to nearby targets.

Ray Deflection [Spell Compendium]: If Friendly Fire didn't exist, this'd be a great spell. As it stands, meh, whatever.

Heart of Earth [Complete Mage]: Good on its own with Stoneskin, temporary HP and bonuses vs. combat maneuvers. Again, Greater Fortifications once you assemble Exodia.

Spell Enhancer [Spell Compendium]: +2 Caster Level to your next spell. Good for buffing e.g. Greater Magic Weapon/Spell Resistance-type effects where you just want caster level as high as possible to maximize the effect. Also nice for avoiding dispels.

Bite of the Werewolf [Spell Compendium]/Bite of the Wereboar [Spell Compendium, Level 5]/Bite of the Weretiger [Spell Compendium, Level 6]/Bite of the Werebear [Spell Compendium, Level 7]: One of the better buff spells. Its smaller brother, Bite of the Wererat isn't worth bothering with but this is getting somewhere. Natural Attacks, stat bonuses (enhancement, but saves you the time of getting items), natural armor bonuses and bonus feats. They get gradually better with Bite of the Werebear eventually granting +16 Str/+2 Dex/+8 Con, +7 Natural Armor, Claw/Claw/Bite, Multiattack/Power Attack/Blind-Fight. Particularly the stat enhancements are some of the highest in the game. Obviously you just use weapons anyways, but the Bite at -2 is a nice, free bonus.

Resistance, Greater [Spell Compendium]/Resistance, Superior [Spell Compendium, Level 6]: +3 Resistance to saves. No need to bother with that Cloak of Resistance, and lasts for 24 hours. Superior Resistance grants +6 which is a pretty good place to be at. You don't want to fail saves.

Darkvision, Superior [Unapproachable East]: 1 hour/level of infinite range Darkvision. If the milieu calls for it, this can be your spell though it doesn't grant you any magical detection capabilities like True Seeing does. Might want to combine with Vision of the Omniscient Eye [Dragon Magic] for some superior vision capabilities.

Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerability.htm): Decent buff; there are some annoying level 3- spells such as Silence and company. Mostly you can counter them through other means though. Higher level versions are generally not worth the trouble.


Level 5

Magic Jar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm): Well, this can be used to take over bodies. Technically, two consecutive castings allow taking over a body permanently. Cast first Jar, take over a body, cast second Jar while in the new stolen body, and have a minion move the now empty stolen body out of range while you're in the second Jar. Then end the first spell (through e.g. breaking the jar with your minion): since you're neither in the host body nor in the magic jar (the spell refers to the original, hence the definite form) nothing happens to you but your victim dies. And you, you just return to the now-your-body from the second Magic Jar and call it a day. You can Gate in something to steal or have some other host prepared. Either way, quite convenient for when you want an actual physical body, and permanent duration isn't enough. Also a good save-or-die effect if you can hide the Jar in a convenient place.

Draconic Polymorph [Draconomicon]: It's like Polymorph but higher HD limit and you get further stat bonuses upon shifting. Only personal. Yeah, it's pretty good.

Heart of Fire [Complete Mage]: Kinda lousy as a spell itself, but the combine bonus is nice.

Channeled Lifetheft [Complete Mage]: You can get a huge amount of Temporary HP if you e.g. summon something to drain. It's not a bad one.

Major Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm): Same as with Minor Creation, except more versatile.

Telepathic Bond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telepathicBond.htm)/Interplanar Telepathic Bond [Spell Compendium]: Surely I don't need to extol the virtues of being able to communicate wordlessly at any distance.


Level 6

Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm): Prepare a generic status and a generic answer. You only get one so can't afford to get specific. Speaking is a free action that can be done out of turn order so that's a good way to trigger this; saying some specific word you'd never say otherwise. As for generic answers, putting yourself in Resilient Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resilientSphere.htm), Dimension Door/Teleporting or similar are all good answers. If you can't cast this, you can use Greater Shadow Evocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowEvocationGreater.htm).

True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm): I shouldn't need to say much here.

Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm): One of the best defenses in the game if you can somehow enable yourself to cast inside it (Selective Spell [Shining South], Initiate of Mystra [Player's Guide to Faerun] or similar). It's okay if you exclude yourself with e.g. Archmage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/archmage.htm)'s Mastery of Shaping or Extraordinary Spell Aim [Complete Adventurer]; particularly good for melee in such a case (consider Widening it to affect larger opponents).

Eyes of the Oracle [Dragon Magic]: Ready an action each turn? It's basically an extra action. Yeah, this is pretty darn good; comes with other perks too. Only rounds/level and discharged when you use the readied action, but not bad at being always prepared for whatever is gonna happen.

Tenser's Transformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm): I'll just list this here to remind you to avoid using this. If you want a spell that buffs your BAB, instead look for a way to cast Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) (such as Arcane Disciple [Complete Divine]); it doesn't cost you your casting ability and the bonuses are better and it's lower level.

Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability [Spell Compendium]: Why cast your spells yourself when your familiar can do half the job for you? Pretty nice.

Brilliant Blade [Spell Compendium]: Makes weapon or 50 ammunition Brilliant Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#brilliantEnergy). For melee, worse than Wraithstrike but can be useful for ranged weapons or an ally's weapon.


Level 7

Arcane Spellsurge [Dragon Magic]: Your standard action spells become swift action to cast. Your full-round action spells become standards. For someone who likes to fight, this is just godlike (and for anyone else for that matter). Just mind, you can't ignore the effect: thus all your standard action spells are swift actions. Thus you'll need something to do with your standard/full-round actions. If you're Dragonblooded (e.g. Silverbrow Human [Dragon Magic]), casting this spell is a swift action.

Ironguard [Spell Compendium]: Iron weapons pass through you harmlessly. A rather good surprise tactic though mind the natural weapons.

Ghost Trap [Spell Compendium]: An incredibly solid anti-incorporeal/ethereal option; makes incorporeals corporeal and plain blocks ethereals. No saves.

Energy Immunity [Spell Compendium]: Just repeating, this makes you immune to an energy type. Lava swim, space travel, whatever, fire/cold/whatever won't kill you (though mind other things like pressure, breathing, etc.).

Planar Bubble [Spell Compendium]: What it takes to be a native of a plane is a bit unclear but if you can be the native of some cool plane, you can bring about all those cool effects with you. Planar Shepherd [Faiths of Eberron] has an easy means but for you, perhaps you need to change into something or reincarnate into something or whatever. Either way, this can be an immense buff (e.g. time traits can allow acting many times per each enemy action, metamagic traits can allow free quickening or whatever).

Elemental Body [Spell Compendium]: A decent enough hours/level buff. Pick carefully, use other spells to make up for your weaknesses.

Brilliant Aura [Spell Compendium]: Well, your team might appreciate the help.

Spell Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellTurning.htm): Can be convenient against casters. Also has a hilarious interaction with itself.
Foresight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/foresight.htm): Minor stat buffs but most importantly, you're never flat-footed and gain minor warnings on how to avoid threats (how DM interprets that is up to them; few DMs can truly make this spell as strong as it really is).

Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm): Send disposable copies of yourself to adventure; why put yourself at risk? Also allows replicating your items, planar travel basically anywhere and so on. A very powerful and versatile spell. Can be acquired through Lesser Planar Binding in the form of Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).

Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm): Initiative is essentially a Dex-check so this might work there. Anyways, there are lots of random uses for this, such as the aforementioned Planar Binding.

Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm): Become anything, permanently with two castings (first might not have infinite duration but a second change into the same shape certainly does). You only get stats, natural weapons, natural armor, natural abilities and extraordinary special attacks but that tends to be plenty. Obsoletes Polymorph, can be used on the whole party should they so desire.

Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm): Without a doubt the most important defensive spell in the game. There are effects that are no-save just lose targeting Will-save such as Irresistible Dance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/irresistibleDance.htm) or Geas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) (can be cast in a standard action through Limited Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm)). Further, Scrying (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm) and similar effects enable surprise attacks at will and will succeed eventually with sufficient castings. Mind Blank puts a stop to that. It costs you access to Morale bonuses but that's a small price to pay.

Greater Prying Eyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyesGreater.htm): A couple of floating eyeballs with True Seeing for hours/level, no material component. Quite convenient things.

Other sources:
Hide Life [Tome & Blood]: Allows you to put your lifeforce into some small object. Essentially makes you completely and utterly invulnerable unless that object can be found (and you can hide it within yourself or something). You can always just get a scroll; invulnerability is kinda good.

Chain Contingency [Tome & Blood]: Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) (tied to e.g. Celerity [Player's Handbook II] or Teleport or such) is generally enough to get you out of any problem, but Chain Contingency goes the extra mile to grant you 3 spells (kinda like Simbul's Spell Sequencer [Player's Guide to Faerun] but actually lasts long enough to be useful at 1 day/level)

Elminster's Evasion [Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings]/Instant Refuge [Spell Compendium] are other 9th level Contingency-variants. Quite useful.


For short duration buffs, both Ghostform [Spell Compendium] and Superior Invisibility [Spell Compendium] are very powerful and indeed, it takes specific preparation to deal with either. Short duraiton though so hard to use unless you can Persist them (Persistent Spell [Complete Arcane] can be applied even to high level spells by some prestige classes such as Incantatrix [Player's Guide to Faerun] or Spelldancer [Magic of Faerun]).
That's the big ones off the top of my head. I'm sure people will add plenty more as we go (or have already).

holy...

Thats a pretty big list of buff spells, thanks for that

A couple things that caught my eye was you said to persist some spells, could you state how? is this some spell of feats of something i dont know about? infering from you post it sounds like it increases the spells duration, doesnt extend spell meta magic do the same? or is this a huge scale duration increase?

About the polymorth trollshape thing, from what you say you can get immunity to damage with a forth level spell, maybe some more spells for fire resistance and a 4th level paladin spell? wow that seems powerful, and lasts for 1minute a level right? thanks for that list
Ps are there many easy/cheap ways to boost caster level?

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 08:51 AM
holy...

Thats a pretty big list of buff spells, thanks for that

A couple things that caught my eye was you said to persist some spells, could you state how? is this some spell of feats of something i dont know about? infering from you post it sounds like it increases the spells duration, doesnt extend spell meta magic do the same? or is this a huge scale duration increase?

I explained Persisting things in my post...although I think I just ninja'd you, so you'll read that before this...so me writing this is pointless...ignore this part.

Also, they have Wraithstrike listed as round/lvl and affecting all attacks; I checked again real quick to make sure the Spell Compendium version was the same as the Complete Adventurer version, and it is. Both version are melee only, and only last a round normally. Still a nice spell, but not quite as nice as they made it look.


About the polymorth trollshape thing, from what you say you can get immunity to damage with a forth level spell, maybe some more spells for fire resistance and a 4th level paladin spell? wow that seems powerful, and lasts for 1minute a level right? thanks for that list
Ps are there many easy/cheap ways to boost caster level?

There are many ways to boost CL; most of them are easy to get, but it's not easy to get a ton of them stacked up...although there's at least one way to make your CL shoot into the stratosphere, as long as you're good at dodging books: Use the spell "(Greater) Consumptive Field" in conjunction with the "Reserves Of Strength" feat, and then murder a swarm of bees. Boom, +10000 CL and +20000 Str. You'll probably want to re-cast the Consumptive Field with your new CL, though, or it'll run out pretty quickly...and even then, you'll likely wanna murder more than one swarm at once, to really pump that CL higher.

Probably shouldn't do it in a real game, though, unless it's already high-op.

Eldariel
2016-09-05, 08:59 AM
A couple things that caught my eye was you said to persist some spells, could you state how? is this some spell of feats of something i dont know about? infering from you post it sounds like it increases the spells duration, doesnt extend spell meta magic do the same? or is this a huge scale duration increase?

Persistent Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell) [Complete Arcane] makes the duration of a spell 24 hours, at the cost of requiring a spell slot 6 levels higher than the spell. Further, it can only be applied to spells that have Personal or Fixed Duration (Touch is technically not a fixed range as if you change in size, your natural reach changes and thus the range of the spell). Normally this is rather prohibitive, but there are classes that can circumvent the limitation. AvatarVecna already mentioned Divine Metamagic [Complete Divine], but for Wizards you'll want a prestige class such as Incantatrix [Player's Guide to Faerun] or Spelldancer [Magic of Faerun], as I touched upon in my last post. This allows making some normally rounds/level or even 1 round buffs last all day. Then there are tricks like using Ocular Spell [Lords of Madness] and/or Reach Spell [Complete Divine] to give a spell fixed range, thus circumventing the limitation on Persistent Spel.


About the polymorth trollshape thing, from what you say you can get immunity to damage with a forth level spell, maybe some more spells for fire resistance and a 4th level paladin spell? wow that seems powerful, and lasts for 1minute a level right? thanks for that list

To be clear, Trollshape is a separate spell from Polymorph. Regeneration is an Extraordinary special quality not normally granted by Polymorph (you'd need Shapechange for that). However, Trollshape [Player's Handbook II] grants everything but costs you your spellcasting. It is however only 1 round/level, and you need Favor of the Martyr plus elemental immunities on top of it for complete immunity. Both of the spells are Personal and thus valid candidates for Persistent Spell (but you really shouldn't persist Trollshape as it again costs you your spellcasting; damage immunity for an encounter can be worth it though; persisting Favor of the Martyr is a great idea if you can get it, however). As it costs you your casting and leaves you with basically your on-going spell effects plus physical attacks (and only lasts rounds/level), this is probably one of the more fair ways to gain damage immunity.

As a general warning, always be careful not to push the powerlevel of the game beyond what the group is comfortable with; complete damage immunity is pretty damn powerful and should be used with care.


Ps are there many easy/cheap ways to boost caster level?

I mentioned the spells "Create Magic Tattoo" [Spell Compendium] and "Spell Enhancer" [Spell Compendium] that can be used to this end. There are also Beads of Karma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) from Strand of Prayer Beads (you need to be able to cast a Divine Spell or Use Magic Device to get the +4 bonus), Orange Prism Ioun Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones) and some class abilities (such as Archmage's).

Big bonuses come mostly from Divine Spells though. The biggest (and most broken) is Consumptive Field [Spell Compendium] (or its Greater counterpart) with some expendable creatures can increase your caster level by half. And then be cast again before the first ends to go above and beyond that. Likewise, divine items such as Beads of Karma or Ankh of Ascension [Magic Item Compendium] are +4 while most things available to Arcane casters without Use Magic Device are +1. Raising Caster Level Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444635-Raising-Caster-Level) has a rather comprehensive listing of means available.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 09:00 AM
I explained Persisting things in my post...although I think I just ninja'd you, so you'll read that before this...so me writing this is pointless...ignore this part.

Also, they have Wraithstrike listed as round/lvl and affecting all attacks; I checked again real quick to make sure the Spell Compendium version was the same as the Complete Adventurer version, and it is. Both version are melee only, and only last a round normally. Still a nice spell, but not quite as nice as they made it look.



There are many ways to boost CL; most of them are easy to get, but it's not easy to get a ton of them stacked up...although there's at least one way to make your CL shoot into the stratosphere, as long as you're good at dodging books: Use the spell "(Greater) Consumptive Field" in conjunction with the "Reserves Of Strength" feat, and then murder a swarm of bees. Boom, +10000 CL and +20000 Str. You'll probably want to re-cast the Consumptive Field with your new CL, though, or it'll run out pretty quickly...and even then, you'll likely wanna murder more than one swarm at once, to really pump that CL higher.

Probably shouldn't do it in a real game, though, unless it's already high-op.

Thanks for explaining the persist thing, 24 seems a long time what book is divine metamagic and persist in? Are they in the sane book? I also wondered what a ninja'd was, so it just writing a answer or response to something just before someone else? And that charecter level boosting is huge, enough to give spells a ridiculous duration and make auto dispells with dispel magic. I think i have seen you say this trick in a thread i read, Like the orgnisl lord drako thread or the recent countering optmized charecter build
thanks

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 09:07 AM
Thanks for explaining the persist thing, 24 seems a long time what book is divine metamagic and persist in? Are they in the sane book? I also wondered what a ninja'd was, so it just writing a answer or response to something just before someone else? And that charecter level boosting is huge, enough to give spells a ridiculous duration and make auto dispells with dispel magic. I think i have seen you say this trick in a thread i read, Like the orgnisl lord drako thread or the recent countering optmized charecter build
thanks

I think Eldariel quoted where they come from in his last post. "Ninja'd" (or variations on it such as "Swordsage'd" or "Imp'd" depending on fandom) is when somebody posts what you were going to say before you said it; essentially, while you were typing up your post, somebody beat you to the punch.

Again, I don't really recommend using that level of CL-boosting shenanigans; it's not usually appropriate to use stuff like that in a game, just because it makes it either impossible for the DM or the other players to keep up without them optimizing themselves past you, and nobody wants an arms race.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 09:22 AM
I think Eldariel quoted where they come from in his last post. "Ninja'd" (or variations on it such as "Swordsage'd" or "Imp'd" depending on fandom) is when somebody posts what you were going to say before you said it; essentially, while you were typing up your post, somebody beat you to the punch.

Again, I don't really recommend using that level of CL-boosting shenanigans; it's not usually appropriate to use stuff like that in a game, just because it makes it either impossible for the DM or the other players to keep up without them optimizing themselves past you, and nobody wants an arms race.

Yeah i relize it would be inappropriate for a actutaul game but when i said boost cl i meant more like orange ioun stone or simliar smaller boost and you gave me that:smallwink: Lol but still that pretty cool what happens when you hit higher levels of optmization (for the record this could be nothing compared to other optmization i heard someone named tippy has done but i dont have specifics)

edit
about the command word things before i thought you were using the command spell to do something with some kind of trick, sorry for misinterpreting

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 09:29 AM
Yeah i relize it would be inappropriate for a actutaul game but when i said boost cl i meant more like orange ioun stone or simliar smaller boost and you gave me that:smallwink: Lol but still that pretty cool what happens when you hit higher levels of optmization (for the record this could be nothing compared to other optmization i heard someone named tippy has done but i dont have specifics)

edit
about the command word things before i thought you were using the command spell to do something with some kind of trick, sorry for misinterpreting

You asked for easy and cheap; most CL boosts are things I don't really consider worth the effort. Stuff like Consumptive Field is worth the effort to me, because it's an actually significant boost. And then, of course, abusing it makes it even more worth the effort, and when it's already so easy...

Tippy is awesome, indeed.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 09:34 AM
You asked for easy and cheap; most CL boosts are things I don't really consider worth the effort. Stuff like Consumptive Field is worth the effort to me, because it's an actually significant boost. And then, of course, abusing it makes it even more worth the effort, and when it's already so easy...

Tippy is awesome, indeed.

That makes sense, it a matter of perspective about whats "worth it" to someone, i just thought it might be worth it, but again, lack of system mastery

Who is tippy and why is he commonly stated as awesome on this forumn?

Edit i saw a thread with someone called emperor tippy as the OP, doing a monk killing elder evils challenge

Eldariel
2016-09-05, 09:48 AM
That makes sense, it a matter of perspective about whats "worth it" to someone, i just thought it might be worth it, but again, lack of system mastery

Who is tippy and why is he commonly stated awesome on this forumn?

Emperor Tippy builds and plays on a consistently high level of optimization and builds a world around what the tools and rules in the gameworld would logically produce (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy). Much of his optimization work is a pleasure to read and he has a rather comprehensive system mastery.

As for caster level, I personally usually use a couple of small bonuses (unless the game is about all-out optimization in case I use a lot more). It's nice to have bonuses against Dispels, as high level characters are inevitably going to be subjected to numerous Dispel Magic attempts from various outsiders, enemy casters and such. It's nice to be able to maintain majority of your buffs through Dispels without needing to waste defensive actions into stopping them (well, there's also Spellblade [Player's Guide to Faerun], Ring of Counterspells, Ring of Spell-Battle [Magic Item Compendium], Ring of Enduring Arcana [Complete Mage] and other means to defend).

I also like various caster level dependent effects so that plays a part in it. For instance, most of my core casters do have Beads of Karma and Orange Prism Ioun Stone once they can afford them, and they will be using stuff like Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm), Giant Vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/giantVermin.htm), Greater Magic Weapon/Fang and Magic Vestment, Phantom Steed, Telekinesis and so on. I consider it the baseline; operating around ~5-6 caster levels above your character level for all-day buffs and a couple of levels for combat use.

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 09:52 AM
That makes sense, it a matter of perspective about whats "worth it" to someone, i just thought it might be worth it, but again, lack of system mastery

Who is tippy and why is he commonly stated awesome on this forumn?

You know how I keep saying "don't do this in a real game", or "this is theoretical only, don't use this at the table"? Emperor Tippy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?1205-Emperor-Tippy) (to the best of my knowledge) plays at a table where everybody brings that to the table and is the origin of the Tippyverse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy). You mentioned the original Lord Drako thread earlier; here's one of Tippy's posts from that thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19252685&postcount=1135)

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 09:56 AM
Emperor Tippy builds and plays on a consistently high level of optimization and builds a world around what the tools and rules in the gameworld would logically produce (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy). Much of his optimization work is a pleasure to read and he has a rather comprehensive system mastery.

As for caster level, I personally usually use a couple of small bonuses (unless the game is about all-out optimization in case I use a lot more). It's nice to have bonuses against Dispels, as high level characters are inevitably going to be subjected to numerous Dispel Magic attempts from various outsiders, enemy casters and such. It's nice to be able to maintain majority of your buffs through Dispels without needing to waste defensive actions into stopping them (well, there's also Spellblade [Player's Guide to Faerun], Ring of Counterspells, Ring of Spell-Battle [Magic Item Compendium], Ring of Enduring Arcana [Complete Mage] and other means to defend).

I also like various caster level dependent effects so that plays a part in it. For instance, most of my core casters do have Beads of Karma and Orange Prism Ioun Stone once they can afford them, and they will be using stuff like Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm), Giant Vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/giantVermin.htm), Greater Magic Weapon/Fang and Magic Vestment, Phantom Steed, Telekinesis and so on. I consider it the baseline; operating around ~5-6 caster levels above your character level for all-day buffs and a couple of levels for combat use.
So tippy is famous for his optmization skills and his tippverse seeting he created? I will have to look and find some of his threads, they sound great
The caster level thing you said was kinda what i was going for when i said ioun stone and simliar.
ps do you have recomendations for getting to 5/6 caster level above your level? and do you have links to tippy's work. Does tippy still use these forumns today?

Eldariel
2016-09-05, 10:03 AM
So tippy is famous for his optmization skills and his tippverse seeting he created? I will have to look and find some of his threads, they sound great
The caster level thing you said was kinda what i was going for when i said ioun stone and simliar.
ps do you have recomendations for getting to 5/6 caster level above your level? and do you have links to tippy's work. Does tippy still use these forumns today?

The thread I linked lists all the easy means of altering your caster level. You'd have to be more specific; in Core I use Beads of Karma and Orange Prism Ioun Stone and perhaps Archmage or Hierophant but outside Core there's any number of means.

And yes, Tippy still uses these forums occasionally. And no, I don't keep many links handy. You can use the forum search function for threads started by him; that should land you where you want to be. Note though, he generally doesn't explain things in too much depth so it might be hard to follow unless your own system mastery is on a reasonable level. For further optimization, you might want to check out Minmaxboards (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=15.0) and particularly the You Break It, You Buy It (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=27.0)-section which features some other skilled people posting various tricks and their results for funzies.

Deophaun
2016-09-05, 10:11 AM
Globe Of Invulnerability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerability.htm)
Actually, not a good buff due to text trumping table:

An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 10:14 AM
The thread I linked lists all the easy means of altering your caster level. You'd have to be more specific; in Core I use Beads of Karma and Orange Prism Ioun Stone and perhaps Archmage or Hierophant but outside Core there's any number of means.

And yes, Tippy still uses these forums occasionally. And no, I don't keep many links handy. You can use the forum search function for threads started by him; that should land you where you want to be. Note though, he generally doesn't explain things in too much depth so it might be hard to follow unless your own system mastery is on a reasonable level. For further optimization, you might want to check out Minmaxboards (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=15.0) and particularly the You Break It, You Buy It (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=27.0)-section which features some other skilled people posting various tricks and their results for funzies.
thanks i missed that part and thanks for the links to minmax boards and beads of karma seem usefull

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 10:15 AM
Actually, not a good buff due to text trumping table:

I was not claiming it to be a good buff, I was providing the requested links for the buffs a previous poster had mentioned.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-09-05, 10:26 AM
I think you might like this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook). It has a list of cool psionic tricks, including infinite recharge tricks (∼infinite spells) and infinite action tricks. If you're just getting started on wizard optimization, it may be a bit weird to jump into another system of spellcasting, but there are some pretty cool combinations.

Another cool trick, not listed there, is the Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?121334-The-Dream-of-Metal).

FearlessGnome
2016-09-05, 10:35 AM
I just want to point out that while the Adamantine Horror is clearly a level drained Abomination that should not see pre-Epic play, at least the at will Disjunction and Implosion are spell-like, so you don't get them with Shapechange.

It's surprisingly difficult to get one to serve you, too. "Only one is believed to exist", making it a unique creature, so you can't gate one in by going off world. It's immune to both mind affecting effects and necromantic effects, so you can't dominate it or put a necrotic cyst in it, and its agenda really doesn't lend itself to voluntary cooperation. If you have the Warforged Domain, you can Command one, though.

Is there anything else out there with at will disjunction?

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 11:12 PM
I just want to point out that while the Adamantine Horror is clearly a level drained Abomination that should not see pre-Epic play, at least the at will Disjunction and Implosion are spell-like, so you don't get them with Shapechange.

It's surprisingly difficult to get one to serve you, too. "Only one is believed to exist", making it a unique creature, so you can't gate one in by going off world. It's immune to both mind affecting effects and necromantic effects, so you can't dominate it or put a necrotic cyst in it, and its agenda really doesn't lend itself to voluntary cooperation. If you have the Warforged Domain, you can Command one, though.

Is there anything else out there with at will disjunction?
this sounds pretty interesting, how did you find this out? Are there simliar problems somewhere? I read some of the dysfunctional rules threads, pretty interesting

Edit
this thread has seem to changed to me asking questions, something more approprate in the Raw question thread, i might move my questions there

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 11:25 PM
this sounds pretty interesting, how did you find this out? Are there simliar problems somewhere? I read some of the dysfunctional rules threads, pretty interesting

Edit
this thread has seem to changed to me asking questions, something more approprate in the Raw question thread, i might move my questions there

The RAW questions thread is generally for more specific questions on how particular rules interact when the interaction seems unclear. General questions about a wide range of things ("What buff spells are most useful to a War Weaver" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499494-Best-spell-list-for-party-buffs) or "Can someone explain the Incarnum sub-system?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499564-Can-Someone-Explain-Incarrnum-To-Me)) or opinion-/optimization-level- -based questions ("Which monsters have inappropriate CR?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?243422-Monster-Challenge-rating) or "What are the best buff spells to persist?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?223303-Best-cleric-spells-to-persist)) don't belong there as much.

Coretron03
2016-09-05, 11:38 PM
The RAW questions thread is generally for more specific questions on how particular rules interact when the interaction seems unclear. General questions about a wide range of things ("What buff spells are most useful to a War Weaver" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499494-Best-spell-list-for-party-buffs) or "Can someone explain the Incarnum sub-system?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499564-Can-Someone-Explain-Incarrnum-To-Me)) or opinion-/optimization-level- -based questions ("Which monsters have inappropriate CR?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?243422-Monster-Challenge-rating) or "What are the best buff spells to persist?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?223303-Best-cleric-spells-to-persist)) don't belong there as much.

ah thats makes sense, thankd for telling me that.
About persist, what book is it in? Is it the same as divine meta magic? I see them on the SRD but cant find what books they are in.
was persist and divine metamagic in a powerful build or something? I think cadzilla, to have buffs all day? (i lurked a bit before making a account, i remember little random tidbits of powerfull stuff)

AvatarVecna
2016-09-05, 11:50 PM
ah thats makes sense, thankd for telling me that.
About persist, what book is it in? Is it the same as divine meta magic? I see them on the SRD but cant find what books they are in.
was persist and divine metamagic in a powerful build or something? I think cadzilla, to have buffs all day? (i lurked a bit before making a account, i remember little random tidbits of powerfull stuff)

Persistent Spell is from Complete Arcane. Divine Metamagic is from Complete Divine. And yeah, this kinda combo is why cleric is awesome. Clerics and druids are both ridiculously awesome

gorfnab
2016-09-06, 01:31 AM
This forumn seems pretty old, Does it have a sort of thread where people have these kind of system mastery tricks or powerful combos?

Thanks
This forum unfortunately does not have a index or listing of the various guides and reference posted on here. However this site has a nice organized listing of handbooks and references that may help you out. Minmaxboards D&D 3.5 Handbook Index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0)

Elkad
2016-09-06, 12:03 PM
Don't forget Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) on that buff list.
Yes, it's an opposed check, but 70% resistance to every divination of equal caster level to you is better than no resistance at all.

FearlessGnome
2016-09-06, 07:39 PM
this sounds pretty interesting, how did you find this out? Are there simliar problems somewhere? I read some of the dysfunctional rules threads, pretty interesting

I saw the Adamantine Horror by chance, and noticed the at will spell like abilities, which are incredibly powerful. Disjunction at will is enough to make any wizard cry for their painstakingly enchanted stronghold or illusion filled labyrinth or what have you. So naturally I started thinking of ways to get control of one, even though it's way too strong for an actual game. It does not have a level adjustment, so you can't just choose to be an Adamantine Horror instead of an elf or a human. Alright what next? Many creatures can be mind controlled, does that work here? Nope, it's a Construct, so it's immune. Curses. Alright, there's a way to get around immunity to mind affecting and dominate things anyway - the feat Mothercyst from Libris Mortis, which lets you put mind controlling cancer into things. Unfortunately, constructs are immune to necromantic effects too, so no cancer magic. Alright, next is Gate. Gate is a 9th level spell that allows you to call in pretty much any creature you want and force it to work for you for a while. It only works on creatures not on the same Plane as you, so if you want to call something from your own world you first have to go to another Plane and call it there. It's a bit like going to Mars so you can summon aliens from Earth because Earth beings are totally aliens to anyone on Mars. Unfortunately, the Gate spell says you can't force unique beings to come and serve you, and the Adamantine Horror's description says there is probably only one in existence, so it's unique.

These are the most common ways I know of for getting a particular creature type to serve you. If these all fail, you have to get creative. It's a construct, and clerics with a particular domain get the power to control constructs in the same way that evil clerics can control undead. Which actually works in this case, neat!

Basically, there are a looot of books for DnD, and if you want to do something very specific, there's a good chance that out there in the ocean of books, there is something that will let you do approximately what you want. There are many problems with various rules and abilities, but there is usually an option for everything, and that's what I love about DnD 3.5.

Calthropstu
2016-09-07, 01:38 AM
Actually, not a good buff due to text trumping table:

Oh, right I forgot it was immobile.

It is still something great to cast, but it would have to be before or during combat.
Or part of a contingency.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-09-07, 08:09 AM
Many creatures can be mind controlled, does that work here? Nope, it's a Construct, so it's immune. Curses.
There's a spell for that, greater humanoid essence.

FearlessGnome
2016-09-07, 08:59 AM
There's a spell for that, greater humanoid essence.

Interesting. Shame about that duration, but yes... this is still a very useful spell in the right situation. Thanks!

Thurbane
2016-09-08, 12:55 AM
Side Question: if you could only chose a single 9th level Wiz/Sorcspell for a gish, what would it be? Time Stop? Shapechange? Assume he's travelling with a Druid and Cleric, who already have access to their 9ths, so nothing that duplicates these if possible.

FearlessGnome
2016-09-08, 06:11 AM
For me, probably Disjunction. Maybe Invoke Magic. Disjunction depends entirely on the game, and the cleric can get it too with the right domains. Invoke Magic almost never comes up, but when it does it's awesome. Shapechange has amazing utility, and might be worth it even if the Druid already has it.

Name1
2016-09-08, 03:32 PM
I second FearlessGnome on that Shapechange. If you manage to become native to the Astral Plane, you can even cast Planar Bubble to increase it's duration as appropriate.

Eldariel
2016-09-08, 04:45 PM
I second FearlessGnome on that Shapechange. If you manage to become native to the Astral Plane, you can even cast Planar Bubble to increase it's duration as appropriate.

Yeah, many level 9 spells are insane but Shapechange is a self-contained Tier 1/0 class that just so happens to do anything you might ever want with a single casting and slot, and a 1500gp focus. It even lasts for hours.