Devilish invasion of the PMP : How would they hide from gods ?

[Puke]

Hello !

I've been running a campaign for quite some time. My players are lvl 16.
- Sorcerer : carries a lesser version of the very early spellfire (the character can alter its spells, and use spellfire to heal his mates, but the more he tries to do wonderous things, the more things can mess up).
- An avenger (dragon magazine alternate paladin class based on chaos)
- A rogue
- A paladin rejected by his god because he let people die in front of him without saying a word.
- An half orc barbarian (surprisingly...)
- An elf ranger

Well, now we know what the players are, lets talk about the plot.

They are involved in a quest the "paladin" has been give to recover his status and come back to his god. They must find a dwarven priest of the main drawen deity.
They know the priest quit Baldur's Gate to travel to the Troll Moutains because he wanted to seek help, any form of help or knowledge to face the growing threat of chromatic dragons. The quest giver said that they had no news of him and asked the "paladin" to find him and bring him back.

Now, there is a bit of a problem. What the players does not know is that the priest has been captured by devils. As priest of the deity of creation, and experienced blacksmith, he is being used to forge a gate that would let devils come to material plane easily.

And that's where I'm a bit stuck with my plot. Since we are playing in a very early stage of the realms history, the archdevils are still fighting each other to dominate the nine hells. Asmodeus is one of the most powerful beings, but very very far from being the Asmodeus we know.
(I chose the first version of Asmodeus history, where he is BORN a devil. He has not been sent by the good gods to rule the hells. Nevertheless, these good gods let him be, at the moment, because they think he is the less bad option they have to get the work done down there).

And he does not rule than the most part of his layer. Mephistopheles is probably his most powerful opponent and they are fighting each other at the moment?
My idea is that Mephisto, who already had a previous contact with the players (the players helped Mephisto to free one of his pawn because they had a common ennemy at the moment) is plotting to go to the prime material plane to seek power, people to dominate and grow his army in order to win the war.

But this can't be this simple. The mountain hosting the WIP gate is protected by several teleportation cages. There is a lot of protections being put in place to keep the gate safe.
Why build a gate, you may ask ? Well, the main reason is that the god of travel (that is also the god of magic) forbid the creation of portals and interplanar travel. Any traveler has to use Sigil to travel between planes, or to pray directly the god of travel to ask him a favor and sacrifice a massive amount of XP.

But... here are the questions that struggles me :

- How would Mephisto hide this from the deity of magic ?
- What kind of devils would be sent to protect the gate ?
- Since Asmodeus is at a very early stage of his... quest for power, what CR do you think he should be ?




TL:DR : Mephisto is dominating mortals to build a gate under the Troll's Mountain, using several rituals to avoid teleportations and scry. How would he hide all of this from the deity of magic ?

Thank you for your time.

[EyethatBinds]

Will what Mephisto is doing have any effect on magic as a whole? If not, why would a god of magic (who are generally neutral) do anything? Is there a big difference between Mephy and Azzy in the grand scheme of things?

To think like the god of magic, try to remember the axiom "With great power comes great apathy." and you should be fine. And besides, maybe the god of magic is doing something about it, after all aren't the players involved?

[Puke]

Will what Mephisto is doing have any effect on magic as a whole? If not, why would a god of magic (who are generally neutral) do anything? Is there a big difference between Mephy and Azzy in the grand scheme of things?

To think like the god of magic, try to remember the axiom "With great power comes great apathy." and you should be fine. And besides, maybe the god of magic is doing something about it, after all aren't the players involved?


It wont have effect on magic as a whole, but I forgot a very important precision actually. The god of magic has also the domain of travel, and has a complete control over it (he has beaten every other being possessing influence on the travel domain and made them his subordinates.) The god of travel decided every portal HAS TO GO in or out of Sigil. But he watches closely if anybody tries to open a direct portal between two planes.

The only way to travel between plans without using Sigil is to sacrifice a massive amount of experience.

Since the magical knowledge is at a very early stage, such a big teleportation cage/scry screen may be noticed by the god of magic, because there is only a very few people able to do that.

The only reason the god of magic may get involved is because one of the player has the spellfire and the devils may try to understand and corrupt this power. But you are right, he may aswell stay neutral as long as magic as a whole is not threatened.

Now, let's ask the question in another way : other powerful beings may be able to detect something big is happening. Mephisto certainly does not want the god of good and justice to come over the party, nether does he needs to attract the attention of any good hero willing to protect the cities from devils.

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One solution may be ; one of the primodials submitted to the god of magic(and travel) is helping Mephisto in order to gain his freedom back.
But I'd prefer to come up with some device or something players would be able to disable.

[EyethatBinds]

Now, let's ask the question in another way : other powerful beings may be able to detect something big is happening. Mephisto certainly does not want the god of good and justice to come over the party, nether does he needs to attract the attention of any good hero willing to protect the cities from devils.

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One solution may be ; one of the primodials submitted to the god of magic(and travel) is helping Mephisto in order to gain his freedom back.
But I'd prefer to come up with some device or something players would be able to disable.

Or the gods are busy elsewhere doing other things. Or the gods have confidence that this plan Mephisto is on isn't going to do much apart from give some people a really bad weekend. Or the gods assume they can fix the problem if it gets out of hand.

With great power comes great apathy. Trust me on this.

To keep stories in the hands of the players, I normally assume even the good gods take a hands off approach when they can to avoid being called upon to fix everything for people. Otherwise where would heroes come from?

Just consider the gods un-involved until the game ends, whatever the outcome. They can fix things in post.

[Extra Anchovies]

Present the gods with a threat outside the material plane of sufficient magnitude to draw their full attention and resources. Wake an Elder Evil (maybe Pandorym?) and send it to the Outlands (or directly to Sigil). Pause the Blood War and cede Hades to the demons, giving them sufficient power to challenge the upper planes. Go nuclear and unleash Tharizdun to wreck the heavens, if you can make sure it doesn't trash the Material Plane first. If you want, it could even be a vague "We're dealing with threats far beyond anything you mortals can understand. You can probably handle this Mephisto chump anyways, it'll be fine."

[Name1]

Well, if there is a god against it, maybe there is one in favor of it? The primary thing gods use to detect... anything really is their Remote Viewing, and another deity is fully capable of blocking this IIRC.

So yeah, why doesn't one god do something against it? Because his counterpart doesn't want him to. Problem solved.
If you have a system where one is stronger than the other, you either have Power equals Apathy or... something I'm not sure I can talk about.

[Necroticplague]

Well, they're trying to hide from a god of magic, so the solution seems obvious. The only ability gods have that expands there senses still requires that things they see be in some way related to their portfolio.

As a standard action[/B], a deity of rank 1 or higher can perceive everything within a radius of one mile per rank around any of its worshipers, holy sites, or other objects or locales sacred to the deity. This supernatural effect can also be centered on any place where someone speaks the deity’s name or title for up to 1 hour after the name is spoken, and at any location when an event related to the deity’s portfolio occurs.
+

Demigods have a limited ability to sense events involving their portfolios. They automatically sense any event that involves one thousand or more people. The ability is limited to the present. Lesser deities automatically sense any event that involves their portfolios and affects five hundred or more people. Intermediate deities automatically sense any event that involves their portfolios, regardless of the number of people involved. In addition, their senses extend one week into the past for every divine rank they have. Greater deities automatically sense any event that involves their portfolios, regardless of the number of people involved. In addition, their senses extend one week into the past and one week into the future for every divine rank they have. When a deity senses an event, it merely knows that the event is occurring and where it is. The deity receives no sensory information about the event. Once a deity notices an event, it can use its remote sensing power to perceive the event. So the solution is simple: Don't involve magic in any way, don't tell anyone, never utter the name of the god of magic, and don't involve any worshipers or sacred places/objects of the god of magic.

[Puke]

So, here is what I did :

- Do not involve the god of magic ; Okay, the players went to a cave where was a dead magic zone. That's why they could not locate people inside nor teleport.
- Present the gods with a threat : Done. They are currently facing another foe and it keeps them really busy.

So, the devils went into the trolls mountains to extract a special kind of stones to build a giant gate somewhere else. They used a teleporting circle near the dead magic zone to transport the stones into their stronghold on the material plane. They carrefully stay into the dead magic area so they cannot directly attrach the god of magic. They will activate the ritual to open the gate at the very last moment.

[Puke]

Hey ! I've been doing some researchs but I can't figure out if there is a material in the game that would help building this gate ?
Is there some kind of rock thats might help to build a permanent gate between two planes ? Or may I invent one ?

[Âmesang]

Alright, I'm going to preface this by saying that this'll probably not work due to the setting and timeline, but it's worth a shot:

My first thought was to have someone take a trip to visit Oerth, the WORLD OF GREYHAWK®, and explore the Star Cairns, a former laboratory once utilized by three powerful wizards. Of them:

"…a third wizard, a quiet man named Titianus Cremul, worked on spells to hide and move entire armies."

So admittedly that's probably something that Mephistopheles would be trying to research, as opposed to the PCs, and being that Titianus' allies were trying to recreate the Twin Cataclysms (at least in some part), there would be powerful magic involved… perhaps just powerful enough to sneak under Mystryl's/Mystra's radar.

However the research into the spells would have occurred approximately no later than 997 DR, and no earlier than 363 DR (the year of the Twin Cataclysms), and would naturally require travelling from Toril to Oerth via Sigil. This sounds like a pre-Dale Reckoning, perhaps even pre-Empire of Netheril FORGOTTEN REALMS®, though (so I can see why Sigil is required, since the Netherese didn't "discover" the Plane of Shadow until –553 DR, so shadow walk would be out either way).

[Puke]

Alright, I'm going to preface this by saying that this'll probably not work due to the setting and timeline, but it's worth a shot:

My first thought was to have someone take a trip to visit Oerth, the WORLD OF GREYHAWK®, and explore the Star Cairns, a former laboratory once utilized by three powerful wizards. Of them:

"…a third wizard, a quiet man named Titianus Cremul, worked on spells to hide and move entire armies."

So admittedly that's probably something that Mephistopheles would be trying to research, as opposed to the PCs, and being that Titianus' allies were trying to recreate the Twin Cataclysms (at least in some part), there would be powerful magic involved… perhaps just powerful enough to sneak under Mystryl's/Mystra's radar.

However the research into the spells would have occurred approximately no later than 997 DR, and no earlier than 363 DR (the year of the Twin Cataclysms), and would naturally require travelling from Toril to Oerth via Sigil. This sounds like a pre-Dale Reckoning, perhaps even pre-Empire of Netheril FORGOTTEN REALMS®, though (so I can see why Sigil is required, since the Netherese didn't "discover" the Plane of Shadow until –553 DR, so shadow walk would be out either way).

Very VERY interesting sir.

The thing is, our setting is a wibbly wobbly timey wimey homebrew.
As I explained in several topics, the world has been destroyed by Ao to be created again. In this new version, he started over without the gods. But some very powerful entities succeded to cheat him to come back in the new version of the world :
- One of them was Anifer Unglum, leader of the Garotte, and she did all she could to speed up the evolution of evil creatures.
- The second was the Lady of Pain, freed from Sigil before the end of the world. She did all she could to lead intelligent beings to gather and build up cities.
- The third(s) was the player characters from our previous campaign. Somehow, all 4 PC from this timeline merged into one entity and hid from Ao into a box (to make things simple). Later, this entity split up to create 4 beings that used their powers to reach godhood (remember there is no more gods at the time because Ao did not want them to be here). They now are NPCs, but their old players can make them do things.

So : Were are at the beginning of the Forgotten Realms timeline, because Ao made the world roughly the same, but I, as a DM, needed to find a way to have cities... a bit of magic... etc... because it would not be playable at all otherwise, or it would be too different from the forgotten realms).

We are playing 300 years after the remake of the world. Most of the events that you know WILL happen again... but... eheh... perehaps not in the good order !

To give you a hint : Tenser is still a child at this time. Elminster is not yet born. Mordenkainen hasn't visited Toril. So, magic is at his VERY VERY early state.

Thultantar is at its place... on the gound ! In the prime material plane ! And it's not a big city yet, only a village.



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But Eh, your idea is very nice. I like it a lot. Since I wanted to involve planeshifting when the players will reach epic level, this may be a great thing to make them do : chase someone (Mephisto or another NPC) that tries to retrieve magical secrets from another world because magic is too young here.

Here and now, we can use your Idea to make a clever Mephisto, who is trying by all means to reach his goal. He may be using some kind of spell alike to hide his builders on the prime material plane to let them build the gate. Or to hide his army from his rivals, and prepare his invasion, so Asmodeus do not realize what is going on.

Another Idea : it could serve to hide an entire army of undeads... HELLO Szass Tam...

Gonna read about this Twin Cataclysm.

Thanks !