Xykon vs. Asmodeus (BoVD, FC II or tGoH)

[Duke Malagigi]

Come on people, who do you think would win the fight? Should it be the Evil mentally challenged lich Xykon or the King of All Hell Asmodeus? Versions accepted: Book of Vile Darkness Asmodues, Fiendish Codex II Asmodeus and The Gates of Hell Asmodeus.

Xykon vs. Asmodeus (BoVD version)
Xykon: 0
Asmodeus: 0

Xykon vs. Asmodeus (FC II version)
Xykon: 0
Asmodeus: 0

Xykon vs. Asmodeus (tGoH version, found in Chapter Nine in here (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88))
Xykon: 0
Asmodeus: 1

Now as a fun little exercise, what would happen to the world of Order of the Stick if Asmoeus won?

[ZeroNumerous]

Asmodeus is epic. Xykon is not. We're done here.

[Jefepato]

You must be joking. Even if Xykon has in fact reached low-epic levels (we don't know for sure he hasn't, but have no real indication that he has), any version of Asmodeus could chew him up and spit him out.

[Justyn]

Well, Xykon has at least eighteen levels of sorcerer (Meteor Swarm is a 9th level spell), plus the +3 level adjustment for being a lich gives him an ECL of 21 minimum. In other words, he is indeed an epic character; he might not have more than 21 character levels, be he is epic.

[Jefepato]

Well, Xykon has at least eighteen levels of sorcerer (Meteor Swarm is a 9th level spell), plus the +3 level adjustment for being a lich gives him an ECL of 21 minimum. In other words, he is indeed an epic character; he might not have more than 21 character levels, be he is epic.

At least twenty, actually (I don't think I'm spoiling anything if I mention that in SoD, he uses three different 9th-level spells). A lich's LA is +4, but that doesn't really matter, because he's not a PC.

His CR is at least 22. Which is pretty terrifying to the OotS, but won't impress the Lord of the Ninth.

[Green Bean]

Gee, the most powerful Devil in all existence versus a lich who's only just breaking epic, if at all. Keep in mind that Asmodeus is not only incredibly powerful, but smart enough to stay on top of eight other scheming devil lords, each of whom have been plotting for aeons to overthrow him. The battle will start with Asmodeus atomizing Xykon, and then somehow using it to his advantage.

[Duke Malagigi]

Okay, lets say Xykon and Asmodeus are trying to control the Snarl or drain its power, who would do a better job? Now which version of Asmodeus would do a better job than the others?

[Krytha]

What is Asmodeus' listed CR?

[Gleanerizer]

Clearly this thread is just intended to get us to brainstorm all the ways Xykon would get pulverized. Xykon has a demilich-ing, paragon-ing (don't know how one goes about getting the Paragon template but whatever), divine ranking, and many levels to go.

[Gleanerizer]

Okay, lets say Xykon and Asmodeus are trying to control the Snarl or drain its power, who would do a better job? Now which version of Asmodeus would do a better job than the others?
Well, this one would go to Xykon simply because he knows more about it (though, having just read SoD, not as much as Redcloak). Poor random schmucks (deities included) fare poorly against the Snarl when the Snarl catches them flat-footed.

[Baru]

Xykon got his ass kicked by an epic Paladin. Asmodeus would turn him in to bone meal. He would have a better chance against Vecna (but even then, no).

[that_guy]

The stats in the Book of Vile Darkness (I think) and Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells, the stats provided for 'Asmodeus' are for his Aspect. Even if Xykon could defeat an Aspect of Asmodeus, the real deal is probably somewhere around the strength of a God (maybe even more!). Asmodeus is the most powerful Devil in Hell.
End of discussion.

[Duke Malagigi]

The two WotC Asmodei (for lack of a better term) would have CR's around 27 to 36. The Dicefreaks Asmodeus on the other hand, brace your selves boys and girls, has a CR of 81. Yes 81; with 30 of his 90 hit dice in wizard levels and 20 in cleric levels (of himself) with 40 outsider hit dice due to his nature as a Maleficarim (A.K.A. hellspawn) and a Divine Rank of 20. He doesn't need the Snarl to take on the gods of the OotS's world.

[Duke Malagigi]

Clearly this thread is just intended to get us to brainstorm all the ways Xykon would get pulverized. Xykon has a demilich-ing, paragon-ing (don't know how one goes about getting the Paragon template but whatever), divine ranking, and many levels to go.

My thoughts exactly. I'm just wondering how much of a hurting either Asmodeus would give Xykon. As for Gates of Hell Asmodeus, he might just destroy Xykon and his phylactery if he's feeling generous. If not, he'd turn the pretentious lich into a lemure in broad day-light and destroy the lich’s phylactery in one round. This is without having to touch Redcloak or his medallion.

[factotum]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Asmodeus would be capable of destroying Xykon's soul, thus immediately terminating his existence and leaving nothing more than a dead skeleton and a useless phylactery. After all, Asmodeus is essentially a God, and we all know Gods function through direct DM fiat regardless of their actual stats.

[Duke Malagigi]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Asmodeus would be capable of destroying Xykon's soul, thus immediately terminating his existence and leaving nothing more than a dead skeleton and a useless phylactery. After all, Asmodeus is essentially a God, and we all know Gods function through direct DM fiat regardless of their actual stats.

Asmodeus would only destroy Xykon's soul if he were feeling particularly generous and merciful. Other wise the King of Hell would slowly, painfully and in the most excruciating manner possible in the entire multiverse strip Xykon of all individuality, free spirit and other personality traits. Xykon would then be transformed into a lemure and slowly fed the non-Chaotic parts of his personality, along with his sorcerous powers, while being promoted up to the rank of Chain Devil. The purpose of which would be to psychologically torture Xykon for eternity, while using him as a foot solder for Hell/personal whipping boy.

[Krytha]

A CR of 81? What does that even MEAN? Why not give him a CR of infinity and be done with it? The only other CR that comes close that I can think of is a prismatic great wyrm. There's probably a bunch of gods with lower CRs than that.

Aside from that, maybe the OotS land's understanding of game mechanics might even the score a little. Xykon could probably read up on Asmodeus' stats way beforehand, find some tiny loophole and try to exploit it using OotSland discrepancies. Whoooo knows.

[Duke Malagigi]

The explanation is that Asmodeus and others like him are much older than the gods' themselves and have achieved greater power in the universe. They (Asmodeus, Demogorgon, Primus, Ssenedram and Yorgl, the Supreme Virtue and Sanoi) according to the Dicefreaks can be thought of as Titans, godlike beings before the gods rose to prominence. Of course there is a 66 CR version based off of the Gates of Hell Asmodeus if you want to know.

[Green Bean]

A CR of 81? What does that even MEAN? Why not give him a CR of infinity and be done with it? The only other CR that comes close that I can think of is a prismatic great wyrm. There's probably a bunch of gods with lower CRs than that.

Aside from that, maybe the OotS land's understanding of game mechanics might even the score a little. Xykon could probably read up on Asmodeus' stats way beforehand, find some tiny loophole and try to exploit it using OotSland discrepancies. Whoooo knows.

Actually, the CR is about equal to that of most gods. The SRD says that most gods have 50 character levels. Characters aren't meant to defeat gods; that's why they're gods. The rules are there for incredibly over the top campaigns, or if you want to include god on god combat in your games without having to make up your own rules.

And as for Xykon exploiting the big A's weakness, here's a list of what Asmodeus is immune to, before his level 20 cleric buffs, and his level 30 wizard ones. He's immune to:
-transmutation
-ability drain
-ability damage
-energy drain
-any mind affecting abilities
-electricity
-cold
-acid
-disease
-poison
-stunning
-sleep
-paralysis
-death effects
-disintegration
-anything that would imprison or banish him
-SR 52 (not an immunity, but Xykon would never make the check)
-fire resistance 25

And that's just from his divine ranks.

To be honest, this is like comparing an Olympic level sprinter with the Millenium Falcon. Sure, the sprinter's fast, but the Falcon operates on a whole different level.

[Winged One]

What is Asmodeus' listed CR?

This is his CR (http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target35.html)(profanity warning).

Yeah, Xykon is powerful, but he's up against mother****ing Asmodeus. Under favorable circumstances(buffed up from scrolls, has had the chance to cast a few epic spells, Redcloak standing by with nothing but Harm above 6th level, that sort of thing), he might be able to take the FC2 version, but that's merely an aspect. On the other hand, SoD spoiler:If he and Redcloak were to warp the gate, the Dark One might be persuaded to use Cania as the demonstration, in which case Asmodeus is pretty much dead, possibly along with the rest of the world if the Snarl isn't re-sealed immediately.

[Ancalagon]

You are funny. Lords of Hell laugh about puny mortals and died mortals with their 1 to 30 levels.

Those things you listed have CRs in the 60s (which is utterly ridicilous on its own). No matter what Xykon does with his 20 or even 25 levels, he just plays three entire leagues below those Demons and Devils.

Also think about D&D is best to be played up to level 15, 16 or so. Level 18 chars just stop to work and to fit in a believable(!) world (in AD&D2nd you had some one 18+ char per one million people or so; imagine a group of those chars) and are more for the villians and "special, legendary NSCs" (I'm not saying you cannot build a campaign which works with PCs around level 18 to 20, but it takes a very good DM to make it work).

Where was I? Ah, Xykon is bonepowder when he attempts this. (Of course we do not know about the OotS version of... and Xykon may even have the Feat "Power of Plot" on his side...)

[Twilight Jack]

Just to play lich's advocate for a moment, I think the rules would change dramatically if Xykon could first succeed in his quest to leash the power of the Snarl. The god-killing abomination seems to ignore divine levels almost completely, judging by it's facility in wiping out entire pantheons in a handful of rounds. Assuming that Asmodeus is every bit as susceptible to the Snarl's mojo as any other god in the OotSverse, I think Xykon could manage the upset if he could get a few weeks and a gate with which to train.

[Ancalagon]

Yes, asuming he is successful and things work out as he hopes... apart from that it would not be a battle "Xykon vs. Aswhatever" anymore. But that battle was the battle in question.

[Krytha]

I wonder if warping the whole gate would take the rift with it... or if it would just leave the rift open... hmmm...

Anyway, I doubt the Snarl would have any problems with Asmodeus - it doesn't have any problems getting from celestial planes to material planes and once its in the hells, it will just unravel the entire thing which leaves Asmodeus nowhere to hide. Of course, this is pretty basic translation to Ootsland.

[sikyon]

Asmodeus isn't that hard to beat. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49365&highlight=asmodeous

[Duke Malagigi]

Just to play lich's advocate for a moment, I think the rules would change dramatically if Xykon could first succeed in his quest to leash the power of the Snarl. The god-killing abomination seems to ignore divine levels almost completely, judging by it's facility in wiping out entire pantheons in a handful of rounds. Assuming that Asmodeus is every bit as susceptible to the Snarl's mojo as any other god in the OotSverse, I think Xykon could manage the upset if he could get a few weeks and a gate with which to train.

Book of Vile Darkness Asmodeus would have about as much defense against the Snarl as any mortal.

Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells Asmodeus, see above.

Gates of Hell Asmodeus would appear before Xykon in full regal/priestly attire in red and black. The contrast between his blood-red eyes, pitch-black hair and pallid white skin gives the King of Hell an undead-like appearance. Being the absolute idiot he is Xykon sends out the Snarl to attack without consulting Redcloak, or any one else with an intelligence score above 7. Asmodeus merely stands there and takes the Snarl's vicious raking, but survives unfazed. Seeing this happen Xykon yells, "That thing should have killed you. It's the freaking Snarl, a god killing abomination. What the Hell is happening?" The Devil God stands in front of the undead idiot savant then replies, "Technically I am a Cosmic Entity. I may have godlike powers but I am not a god per say. I have broad universal power and influence and not all the rules that apply to gods apply to me. This means that I am no more easily harmed by the Snarl than you or any other mortal is. Perhaps even less so." To which Xykon replies, "Unholy crap".

[Baalzebub]

Xykon vs. Asmodeus (BoVD version)
Xykon has a chance here. Still, Asmodeus has the Ruby Rod. Asmodeus wins.

Xykon vs. Asmodeus (FC II version)
Pretty much the same. But the Asmodeus in this book it's just an aspect.

Xykon vs. Asmodeus (tGoH version, found in Chapter Nine in here (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88)
Asmodeus CR: 81. Do I need to say more?

Now as a fun little exercise, what would happen to the world of Order of the Stick if Asmodeus won?
If Asmodeus exists in the OOTS cosmology, he is already aware of the Snarl existence, and he'll try to seal it again. The snarl is pure Chaos, and Asmodeus will not try to tap into that power, it's below him.
But, I can totally see him using the oots for that, so nothing stands in its way to devour the oots world with his own might.

But, I can't see Asmodeus fighting Xykon in the first place. It's just not him. He'll manipulate him and Redcloak to his own ends.

[factotum]

Anyway, I doubt the Snarl would have any problems with Asmodeus - it doesn't have any problems getting from celestial planes to material planes

Actually, I think it has enormous difficulty shifting out of the material plane. Remember in the Order of the Scribble where it said that the gods who DIDN'T get instantly killed "cowered in their Outer Plane homes for centuries"? If the Snarl could reach the Outer Planes, they would have been scribble food. It could only destroy Zeus and the others because they were interacting with the physical realm and it got the element of surprise on its side.

[Alfryd]

This is his CR(profanity warning).
I like that site.

[Chronos]

And as for Xykon exploiting the big A's weakness, here's a list of what Asmodeus is immune to, before his level 20 cleric buffs, and his level 30 wizard ones. He's immune to:Ah, good ol' Sonic. Nothing resists Sonic.

Clearly, all you need to beat Asmodeus is a scroll of Control Weather and a deity who's a bit flexible about the rules.

[Alfryd]

What's your bet 'e'll have a contingencied silence spell about his person?
Is that possible?

[RobbyPants]

Asmodeus is epic. Xykon is not. We're done here.
Pretty much.

Some versions even suggest that Asmodeus is the oldest evil entity around. I'd be surprised if Xykon lasted three rounds, even with winning initiative.

[Duke Malagigi]

What's your bet 'e'll have a contingencied silence spell about his person?
Is that possible?

Who are you talking about?

[Alfryd]

Asmodeus. To overcome vulnerability to Sonic damage.


Asmodeus is epic. Xykon is not. We're done here.
Xykon is almost certainly level 22+, partly by his own admission and partrly due to the number of spells expended in combat vs. Dorukan. Not that this matters.

[Kurald Galain]

And as for Xykon exploiting the big A's weakness, here's a list of what Asmodeus is immune to,

That could get quite funny actually.
X: paralyzing touch!
A: shrug.
X: cone of cold!!
A: ignore.
X: maximized lightning bolt!!!
A: yawn.
X: symbol of insanity!!!!
A: grin.
X: Why!!!!! Won't!!!!! You!!!!! Die!!!!!