Single type (thematic) spellcasters

[Jack_McSnatch]

So this was inspired by my ealier thread about making a fire mage, and by my own dislike of spellcasters. I like having mages in d&d, but I hate coming up with contingencies for their shenanigans. So I thought, 'what if mages could only do one style of magic?'

If you've decided to play a fire mage, you're stuck with it. If you can somehow like a spell to fire (such as being able to scry through flames, or flying with jets of fire) then it's permissable, but otherwise you can't take any other spells unless you can explain to me how fire grants wishes.

Would this be balanced, or would it just turn into a game of "let's see how many spells I can bull**** past DM approval?"

[Thurbane]

Some of the Bloodline feats in Dragon Compendium do this: Fire Bloodline, for example, has the following: Tongues (with the casters tongue resembling a tongue of flame) and Cloudkill (has a smoky quality). Wizards DOmains in UA also has some ideas along this line. Spell Thematics is probably also worth a look.

I think it's a neat idea, but I think one of two things would happen (as you've pretty much surmised in your OP):

1.) DM holds you strictly to the theme, and your spell list is fairly gimped against a whole range of opponents, not to mention being even less versatile than a Warmage.

2.) The player pretty much floats every spell in the game as being "part of the theme".

[Jack_McSnatch]

Well, with this adjustment would come tweaks to caster related things like counterspelling. The idea is to take casters down half a notch, while retaining their usefulness as a role. Detect/read magic would be on everyone's lists, and I might even say things like dispel are available to all casters, regardless of type. Basically I want the wizard to stop abusing his absurd arcane power, and leaving the fighter staring at his sheet and wondering why he didn't play something useful.

[Milo v3]

Just be a sorcerer and only pick spells you can flavour as making sense for your vocation. With wizards it doesn't really effect much since they could theoretically just research a new spell that fits with their theme.

[Tiri]

Well, if Wizards being brought down to Fighter-level is really the result you want, it won't work. There are still enough powerful spells and metamagic even without refluffing spells that a Fighter will be left in the dust. Not to mention that you still allow things like Dispel Magic, which are part of the reason Wizards are so much better than Fighters in a world with magic in it.

It's not just Wizards, either. Any class that gets to pick from a strong spell list has this problem.

[Âmesang]

Honestly a lot of flavor could be added simply by taking Spell Thematics from Player's Guide to Faerûn.


Nearly any theme is possible, so long as you can describe a visual link for unification. For example, your theme might be "lightning," "spheres," or "screaming skulls." If you choose spheres as your theme, your magic missiles might take the form of glowing spheres of light, and your summoned monsters might emerge from mysterious rainbow-colored globes. If your theme is "lightning," your haste spell might manifest as a bright green spark that leaps from ally to ally.

Your fire-based wish? :smallbiggrin: Comes from a shooting star, of course!

[Tiri]

You don't need Spell Thematics for that. It's already in the default rules for spells that they visually manifest however you want them to.

[Mato]

Have you considered this?


I.M.E.
I.M.E. stands for Individual Magical Effect. It was first described in The Spear update by Complains as what some call ... your "aura" or "the color of your soul" or whatever. Basically, everyone has their own inner light. As you gain more power, your IME can evolve.

Thuntonian magic permeates pretty much the entire realm. Although this magic is in abundance, great care and skill is needed to access it before it can be converted to energy and burned up to power spells or magic items.

I.M.E Color
As each person converts magic into energy, they unintentionally taint it with their own soul, which is itself, a form of energy. Since souls are different and unique, each person contaminates the energy they’re creating in a different and unique way. To better understand this, imagine magic as water and the energy used to power a spell, as coffee. The spell caster is like the paper filter and the coffee grounds represent that caster’s soul. Obviously, the water can’t become coffee, without first passing through the coffee grounds, which need to be held in place by the filter. Now imagine that everyone’s coffee grounds are a different color. This results in each pot of coffee matching the color of the grounds. But no matter what the coffee looks like, it’s basically the same strength and taste for everyone. It’s just a different color.

This is basically how IME works. As the burning magic energy glows, that glow is a different color for everyone. Of course, sometimes someone’s IME color may appear to match someone else's IME color, but in ways that most mortals can’t detect, they’re always different.

How IME Is Affected By Levels
Ever wonder why a high level character has high bonuses in just about everything? Bonuses to hit, to do damage and even to display willpower. Sure, a lot of this is due to that character simply having more training and experience in the field, but characters can go up levels by doing things that have nothing to do with combat. Exploring the landscape, accomplishing tasks and “good role-playing” all grant experience points and thereby higher levels. How can this affect stats and bonuses? Then there’s the hit points. High level characters just have more hit points and as a result, can shrug off damage that would have killed them a few levels ago. Well again, this all comes down to the soul.Continuing with the coffee comparison, as a character goes up levels, their soul becomes more powerful. This is like adding more and more coffee grounds to their filter. This results in a stronger, more powerful coffee. The added coffee grounds intensify the coffee’s color as well, but not in the way you might think.

Just as a dream produces imagery that deeply reflects that character’s inner mind, IME can create imagery reflecting that character’s soul. As a character goes up levels, their IME begins to show imagery specific to that character. At first, this imagery is faint and discreet, but eventually it can grow to something visually spectacular.

Applying IME To Your RPG Character
Here’s how I’ve used IMEs in my games of D&D… The player decides the color of their character’s IME as well as what it would look like at higher levels. The DM keeps a record of this and dictates what the IME appears as at what level. The player can’t decide at what rate the IME evolves. Although the player can choose the look and color of their character’s IME, the character has no say in the matter, anymore than they can choose the shape of their own nose.

[Jack_McSnatch]

Your fire-based wish? :smallbiggrin: Comes from a shooting star, of course!
Clever. Very clever


Have you considered this?
Well this is kinda cool and all, but it doesn't stop the aformentioned problems. As it says 'the coffee still has the same strength and taste, it's just a different color.

[Cosi]

Well, with this adjustment would come tweaks to caster related things like counterspelling. The idea is to take casters down half a notch, while retaining their usefulness as a role.

I don't think "power of casters" and "tightness of caster theme" are all that related. Consider a spell like planar binding. That spell is broken. Having it in your repertoire lets you break the game. It does that if you are a very tightly themed Summoner who has planar binding + summon monster + various "planar" utility spells. It also does that if you are a very loosely themed Wizard who has planar binding, fireball, fly, scrying, and every other trick a Wizard has pulled in any book, TV show, movie, webcomic, or video game for the past hundred years. If you are allowing yourself to re-write classes entirely, you can balance people with any level of tightness of theme. You just have to not give them broken abilities.

There are advantages to tightly themed casters, but they have very little to do with power level concerns. The principle advantage of tight casters is communicative. If there are Necromancers and War Mages and Summoners and Elementalists and so on and so forth, telling people what class your character is conveys real information. The Necromancer can be reasonably counted on to have undead minions, do things that are "spooky", and provide support with spells like speak with dead and resurrect. The War Mage can be reasonably counted on to have blasting spells, do large piles of damage, and provide support that would be nominally useful in a war.


Well, if Wizards being brought down to Fighter-level is really the result you want, it won't work. There are still enough powerful spells and metamagic even without refluffing spells that a Fighter will be left in the dust.

Yeah. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The reason the Fighter sucks is the Fighter. He's not able to deal with level appropriate challenges, which sinks the character before you even get into comparative questions. Are there things you could legitimately trim from the Wizard? Yeah. Would the game be better if caster classes were more tightly focused? Yeah. But those issues have nothing to do with why "Fighter" is not something you feel good about putting on your character sheet.


Your fire-based wish? :smallbiggrin: Comes from a shooting star, of course!

Your fire-based wish comes from an Efreet. Because obviously.

[Thurbane]

I certainly think it's an interesting idea, if the DM can pull it off effectively.

Getting the right balance between having the caster stick to a thematic spell list without being overly gimped and useless ("All I can do is burn things! What am I supposed to do against a Fire Giant?"), or barely restricted at all ("I use my 'fire" themed Polymorph Any Object!"), might be challenging.

[The Viscount]

The Shugenja list from Complete Divine may prove a useful guideline for this type of thing. The lists are pretty ok, though some elements are better than others, and each element has something besides the obvious.