[PF] Lawful Evil Asmodean Advocate Help (both roleplaying-wise and mechanically-wise)

[MindTheGap97]

So, I have a character in mind that I really would like to flesh out.
He is an Asmodean Advocate Human Cleric with a kinda tragic backstory

Here is a condensed version of it:

He used to be a very good barrister and he helped criminals (well, the rich ones at least) to get out of trouble, he hated it, he hated them, but he needed the money to keep his ill sister (the person which he loves the most) alive, sadly (and obviously), one day his sister died, he lost it and brutally murdered the cleric who was supposed to keep her alive and was about to commit suicide, this is when Asmodeus stepped in and offered him a deal.

Now, I need help finding a deal that Asmodeus could propose him, one that could get him adventuring.

Then I need help statting him out (assuming a 25 point buy). He would mainly be the party face, in combat I don't picture him as a front-liner, mostly as a spellcaster, avoiding melee the best he can, the Trickery domain helps with that.

For traits I am set on Love Lost to boost Profession(Barrister) but, as we are allowed three traits, the other two are open and I would like to hear your opinion about them.

For racial traits I think Heart of the Fields is really good (half your level on a Profession) but also Silver-Tongued could be good (for the ability to increase attitude by three steps with Diplomacy).

I am completely lost on feats (never played a Cleric) but maybe Skill Focus could be worth it.

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Now, about roleplay, how should he act in the confronts of the party? Probably they'll be Goodish and with me being openly drawing my powers from Asmodeus this could be a problem, but the players are cool with it, so they'll avoid to turn this into a PvP scenario. Especially since he does that because it MUST be done in order to save his sister

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P.S. Now, am I the only one bothered with the archetype giving a familiar that boosts a completely useless skill for the character? You can substitute Bluff with Profession which scales on your best stat, I get that it fits tematically, but c'mon.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, in D&D / Pathfinder terms, Asmodeous is pretty much the original "Devil's in the details" guy, as well as the original master manipulator.

So... Asmodeus wants an agent on the prime material for some plot or another. No, you don't know what it is. Why would you? You've got a list of six scenarios you're going to run across some time in your lifetime, and at each one, there's a particular nonsensical action you're supposed to take that on the surface is harmless.

E.g., you'll run across a cobblestone street intersection, with a street light at each corner during the day. Three of the lamps will be running, the fourth will not be. There's a loose cobblestone at the north-east corner. Pry up the loose cobblestone, flip it over, then put it back in place.

You have six things of such a nonsensical nature. Once you do all six, you will be given a potion that has the ability to restore your sister.

What you don't know (in character, at least, although with it being Asmodeous, you have your suspicions) is that you're kicking off a series of very evil chains of events. That beggar you'll end up giving a platinum piece will buy a bottle of rum, get killed for having it by a gang, the gang leader will get drunk and decide to do something very reckless... which turns out not to be quite so reckless as all that, because the constabulary gets delayed due to a wagon wheel breaking when it hit a cobblestone that was significantly slimier than the others at that corner... of course, the extra gang violence is just a setup for something else going on.

[Draconium]

Roleplay-wise, you may want to check out a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil), written by Asmodeous Red Fel himself, our resident expert in Law and Evil (and also the lesser alignments).

[Deophaun]

That beggar you'll end up giving a platinum piece will buy a bottle of rum, get killed for having it by a gang, the gang leader will get drunk and decide to do something very reckless... which turns out not to be quite so reckless as all that, because the constabulary gets delayed due to a wagon wheel breaking when it hit a cobblestone that was significantly slimier than the others at that corner... of course, the extra gang violence is just a setup for something else going on.
This level ascribes powers of prediction to Asmodeus that no deity possesses (that's why you can only get probabilistic statements about the future, not definite ones). No, Asmodeus offers to help you get you what you want, and then he damns you with that. There is no doubt at the end that you deserve your fate.

Now, the terms at the time will seem innocuous. But at the time you fulfill them, you will know the consequence of doing so. I believe it was Red Fell that came up with the term that the devil would call on you to stand up at a particular time: innocuous. But the time he asked you to stand up, it was at a time when standing counted as a vote for a genocidal war that the devil was already in the process of engineering, and you were the deciding vote. Something like that would be perfect, even though it's not particularly adventure-worthy.

[Geddy2112]

If you don't want to go asmodean advocate, you can always use thethe orator feat. It requires skill focus-linguistics, but it lets you use linguistics for most bluff/diplomacy/intimidate, and if you wanna be a face clerics are hard up for skill ranks as it is, this would sure up that 2+INT, although you probably have a decent INT score fluff and mechanicswise. It will represent the wordplay and "gotcha" clauses that the devil himself would use to bind people into contracts, as well as the silver tongue nature. You can use your human bonus feat to get skill focus and be ready to be the orator off the bat. If you decide to go half elf you will get skill focus as a bonus feat so that works too. If you do go asmodean advocate, then don't bother with skill focus-your profession will already be through the roof.

On a 25 pt buy with a +2 from being humanoid I would go 8/16/12/14/18/10. This will give you enough ranks to pump sense motive, profession(barrister), perception, and throw a knowledge rank here and there. Just make sure somebody in the party hauls your gear till you have a handy haversack and mithral breastplate. You could even dump charisma as you have profession for bluff/diplomacy, and your channel is not exactly party friendly.

Sacred summons is an incredible feat for clerics, as it gets you matching aligned creatures as a standard action instead of full when you summon. If you plan on using channel energy as a weapon, you need selective channel as not to nuke the party(but maybe just don't use it much). Admodeus has one of the coolest channeling feats, should the campaign get to a high enough level called conversion channel. It basically forces them to convert and be healed, or get nuked by neg energy.

If you don't go asmodean advocate, then grab magic as a second domain. Trickery is a REALLY good domain and getting a free improved familiar is probably worth a domain. And yes, the viper thing is kind of thematic and the +3 bluff is worthless as your barrister skill will likely be more, probably a design oversight. Just remember your snake is a devil in disguise and you get an imp(one of the best improved familiars) for free.

Roleplaying is simple-Don't be a jerk to the party or some kind of evil zealot doing evil for the lulz. Be a normal person, innocuous as they say. If you play your cards right, the party won't know any better until you summon a horde of devils to combat or let forth a fiery pentagram as you channel energy from a pentagram ring or something. Likewise, treat your pawns allies with respect, you need them to get your sister back after all. Treat your employees with dignity and respect, and they are far easier to manage...

[Red Fel]

So, I have a character in mind that I really would like to flesh out.
He is an Asmodean Advocate Human Cleric with a kinda tragic backstory

Here is a condensed version of it:

He used to be a very good barrister and he helped criminals (well, the rich ones at least) to get out of trouble, he hated it, he hated them, but he needed the money to keep his ill sister (the person which he loves the most) alive, sadly (and obviously), one day his sister died, he lost it and brutally murdered the cleric who was supposed to keep her alive and was about to commit suicide, this is when Asmodeus stepped in and offered him a deal.

Interesting so far. But first, I want my kudos.


Roleplay-wise, you may want to check out a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil), written by Asmodeous Red Fel himself, our resident expert in Law and Evil (and also the lesser alignments).

Thanks, Drakudos. Now, let's get started.

First off, let's talk alignment. This guy, as you've written him, doesn't quite read as LE. He reads as distraught and agitated. So let's make him a bit more LE.

Step one, make him a monster. That's easy. You said he hates the people he represents. Make it broader. He personally finds everyone revolting, guilty, sinful. He considers them all vile and beneath him. He represents them, not out of a sense of altruism, but for the money. And while he won't deliberately fail in his duties to his clients, he derives personal satisfaction when they are found guilty despite his best efforts. He is a bad person.

Step two, humanize him. Again, easy. He has a morality pet - his sister. She is the only good, pure thing in the world. The only one undeserving of harsh justice. When she dies, it hollows him out. In a moment of furious, anguished frustration, he lashes out at the one who delivered the news, the Cleric tasked with keeping her alive. This is the man who took money for her treatments, the one who swore he would do everything he could. And he failed. So your character kills him in a rage.

Step three, introduce desperation. If people knew what happened, he would lose everything. He had already lost everything of value - his sister - and his position and job were all he had left. And as an enforcer of justice, he knows how harshly he will be dealt with. He is at the bottom of the barrel with nowhere to turn.

Step four, enter the Big A. As others have mentioned, the best Pacts arise when you aren't in a position to refuse them. This is a character who has belonged to Asmodeus in every way but officially, to this point - he has no compassion in his heart, he deals harshly but justly with his fellow man, and he takes pleasure in the suffering of those he deems beneath him (which is everybody). Asmodeus offers him a way out. The PC will be able to leave the city, his head held high, with money in his pocket and nobody chasing him. In exchange, however, he will belong to Asmodeus. He will subtly spread the Big A's dark evangel. He will use his talents as barrister to pervert the world's justice, spreading corruption, mistrust, and brutality wherever he goes, thanks to his oily tongue and gift for words. Big A promises him this, knowing that this man - a man with nothing to lose, and nothing but contempt for his fellow man - will leap at the chance to pervert the world and punish those he sees as beneath him.

At least, that's how I'd run it.


Now, about roleplay, how should he act in the confronts of the party? Probably they'll be Goodish and with me being openly drawing my powers from Asmodeus this could be a problem, but the players are cool with it, so they'll avoid to turn this into a PvP scenario. Especially since he does that because it MUST be done in order to save his sister

Well, that does pose a slight obstacle, but there are ways around that.

First, establish that your character has been at this for awhile. His hostility towards people will have cooled into a smirking bemusement. Instead of openly seeking to pervert justice, and actively proselytizing Big A, your character's methods will be in the vein of "giving the guilty what they deserve." That he considers everyone guilty need not be stated; it's enough that when the party seeks to punish someone, you help them along. Instead of actively promoting worship of the Biggest Bad, you simply promote his values - orderliness, manipulation, trickery, cunning. Find the weakest, most oppressed people, and teach them to punish their oppressors through cruel, vicious conniving. The party will love that you help the underdog, and your patron will love that you are subtly converting more and more people to his mindset.

Remember Rule #1 of Evil: Don't be a dingus. Don't give the party a reason to fight or abandon you; be helpful, friendly and invaluable. You are a master of manipulation; make yourself loved. Be the person on whom they can rely, the one who does the dirty jobs their alignment keeps them from doing. Be effective and capable and useful, and the rest simply won't matter.

[MindTheGap97]

Step four, enter the Big A. As others have mentioned, the best Pacts arise when you aren't in a position to refuse them. This is a character who has belonged to Asmodeus in every way but officially, to this point - he has no compassion in his heart, he deals harshly but justly with his fellow man, and he takes pleasure in the suffering of those he deems beneath him (which is everybody). Asmodeus offers him a way out. The PC will be able to leave the city, his head held high, with money in his pocket and nobody chasing him. In exchange, however, he will belong to Asmodeus. He will subtly spread the Big A's dark evangel. He will use his talents as barrister to pervert the world's justice, spreading corruption, mistrust, and brutality wherever he goes, thanks to his oily tongue and gift for words. Big A promises him this, knowing that this man - a man with nothing to lose, and nothing but contempt for his fellow man - will leap at the chance to pervert the world and punish those he sees as beneath him.



I really like this deal, maybe someday he'll even get the chance to have his sister back too, I mean, True Resurrection IS on the Cleric's spell list after all. So if he gains enough power (and favor from Asmodeus) he might be able to bring her back. For now you keep all your money and your fame as a respectable man and he asks for a thing that the character loves doing? That sounds like a great deal to me

[Red Fel]

I really like this deal, maybe someday he'll even get the chance to have his sister back too, I mean, True Resurrection IS on the Cleric's spell list after all. So if he gains enough power (and favor from Asmodeus) he might be able to bring her back. For now you keep all your money and your fame as a respectable man and he asks for a thing that the character loves doing? That sounds like a great deal to me

Which is precisely the point. Why offer somebody a deal if you know they'll constantly try to wriggle their way out? No, better to offer them the means and incentive to keep doing the horrible things they do, which in turn furthers the cause of Evil in the world.

That's truly a win-win.

The question is, when he has the chance to bring his sister back, will he still want to? Will he be the same person who worked desperately to save her? Or will he have become so jaded, so twisted, that the idea of bringing her back from what is no doubt anywhere better than here will simply strike him as cruel?

And if he did try to bring her back... Would she even come?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lncftdgaHV1qkwc9zo1_500.gif

[MindTheGap97]

Which is precisely the point. Why offer somebody a deal if you know they'll constantly try to wriggle their way out? No, better to offer them the means and incentive to keep doing the horrible things they do, which in turn furthers the cause of Evil in the world.

That's truly a win-win.

The question is, when he has the chance to bring his sister back, will he still want to? Will he be the same person who worked desperately to save her? Or will he have become so jaded, so twisted, that the idea of bringing her back from what is no doubt anywhere better than here will simply strike him as cruel?

And if he did try to bring her back... Would she even come?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lncftdgaHV1qkwc9zo1_500.gif

Well, that is a very good question, I'd say she would come back just for the sake of seeing his brother again, on the other hand...would he be willing to bring her back? Maybe. It depends on how the world has shaped in her absence, after all he is Lawful so he should look forward to get order, a world that resembles what in his mind is the concept of perfection, right?