How game changing would this be

[Sir cryosin]

Ok so I was thinking about a eldritch knight and I thought how much would it change balance. If you don't limited the class of magic you can pick for ek's. And arcane trickster for that matter also.

[Kane0]

On a scale of 1 to PunPun opening up all spell schools for EKs and ATs probably doesnt go higher than a 4-5. It largely depends on how optimally the PC selects their spells, the progression itself is still plenty limiting enough to prevent issues.

[R.Shackleford]

On a scale of 1 to PunPun opening up all spell schools for EKs and ATs probably doesnt go higher than a 4-5. It largely depends on how optimally the PC selects their spells, the progression itself is still plenty limiting enough to prevent issues.


I would say more like a 2 or 3, casters can already Gish quite well such as the Bard, Cleric, and Wizard so really all this does is get to the same end by going down the road from a different direction.

Though the EK/AT will never have high level slots or get too many slots so it may not even be a 3. Most games go 1-8, so I really don't see this being an issue.

[Giant2005]

Do you mean an EK that can choose Abjuration and Evocation spells from his choice of he Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer/Druid/Bard/Warlock pools, or an EK that can choose any Abjuration or Evocation spell he wants?
The latter would obviously pose much more of an issue than the former, but I think the former would be okay (Clerics and Warlocks have some great low level spell options, but probably not great enough to lose Shield, Absorb Elements, and Blur).

[rollingForInit]

I would be a bit vary to just say that they can be pick any spells from any lists. There are some great defensive and buff spells on the Wizard list, and then some on the Cleric's list, for instance. Just allowing the EK to get all of them might not break the game or anything, but you'd given them better spell access than any other class.

That said, I'd probably say yes to a player that wanted to play a divine EK that had access to Cleric spells instead of Wizard spells.

[MrStabby]

This one doesn't worry me much.

The class can already get those spells anyway in low numbers so if there was a single spell that was broken then it would be broken already. So this leaves the idea of something being too good on an EK at a specific level (say 7th level before you get another free pick spell) or these spells being too powerful in combination with each other.

In general terms the requirement that a spell be awesome on a martial chassis, that it still be awesome three times later than a full caster gets it, and that it is awesome but suddenly drops off being awesome at the point where the EK could have picked it up anyway and we would have noticed it as well as being a spell that is not evocation or abjuration is sufficiently restrictive that I would feel secure.

So yeah, a pretty low degree of brokenness.

On the other hand allowing more spells adds to flavour. You want a death knight feel with necromancy spells? Now you can go for it. Or you maybe want a fey fighter with a lot of enchantment spells? Not a problem now. To me the scope of adding fun and interesting characters outweighs the low risk of breaking the game.

On a more cynical note, fighters tend to be a bit sensitive to the power of magic items they find. If the PC was to look a little too strong then just holing back a magic sword a level or so would pretty much balance it.

[Giant2005]

There are so many wildly different interpretations of just what exactly the OP is asking, that I think we are probably going to need some clarification on this one.

[Sir cryosin]

Ok people over analyze and interpret. So instead of choosing from evoke in adjuration spells but open up to pick from any school of magic from the Wizards list because that were the ek picks spells. But reading the posts got me thinking if a EK can pick from any other class spell list two. What would be the results.

[MrStabby]

Ok people over analyze and interpret. So instead of choosing from evoke in adjuration spells but open up to pick from any school of magic from the Wizards list because that were the ek picks spells. But reading the posts got me thinking if a EK can pick from any other class spell list two. What would be the results.

For any class? More interesting. For the same reasons i said above I don't think it would be an issue but...

Ranger and Paladin seem the most ripe to pick from.

So from the full casting classes:
Bane, bless, faerie fire (just taking best low level concentration spells), alter self, spirit guardians (the move restriction is awesome, great for front liners and the EK can give disadvantage on saves), conjure woodland beings (stays relevant all the way through the game if you can get casters), freedom of movement (situational and misty step might be better)

For Warlocks:
Hex (this is probably the most powerful option - it adds something new and it complements the class well)

For rangers/Paladins
Ensnaring strike (not by itself game breaking but it is a bit of a step up in power for the class), Searing smite (with the ability to disadvantage saves, this actually becomes pretty good), the other smites (less of a boost than searing, but possibly better spells. Adds some battlefield control and lets the class do what it might have had a hard time doing otherwise), find steed (lets you play a mounted character better, depending on the DM this could be big), divine favour (nice with all the attacks you can get), elemental weapon (more attacks than the paladin, going to keep concentration longer. Not broken but another step up in the class.)


If you look at cantrips then I would only worry about shillelagh as a point of contention.

[Irish Musician]

Ok people over analyze and interpret. So instead of choosing from evoke in adjuration spells but open up to pick from any school of magic from the Wizards list because that were the ek picks spells. But reading the posts got me thinking if a EK can pick from any other class spell list two. What would be the results.

Just being able to pick any Wizard spell, instead of just picking evoke and abjur? Not that game changing. As stated before, their spell progression isn't so intense that they would be OP at all, really. Maybe in higher level they'd have a slight advantage, but not by much, I'd imagine.

As far as picking from other classes' spell lists? That's when it starts to get a little tricky with it and starts to get a little closer to over-powered. However, there could be Homebrews of EK that you could do that instead of picking from the Wizard's spells, you pick from a different class' spells. A Fighter who's believed in a god for years, and just has a touch of their power (paladin). A battle-healer who is mainly fight, with some of their god's healing, or devastation, powers mixed in there. A Fighter who has lived their whole lives in the woods, has spoken to the trees, and is in tune with nature enough to be able to draw on her powers (druid).

Those are just some Homebrew, off the top of my head, ideas when looking over it. With half casters like Rangers and Paladin...or even Bladelock, I can see simply just using those classes instead of an EK fighter, because that is essentially what they are going for with those classes. But, with more full-casters I can see doing a variant on the EK for those types of classes with that sub-class of fighter.

[Lollerabe]

We allow the current schools plus one. I chose transmutation, it hasen't broken anything yet and it does enable some cool concept such as the death knight that Stabby mentioned.


The current system of only two schools which are set in stone seems weird to me fluff wise as well, why would ALL EKs study the exact same two schools?

[DivisibleByZero]

We allow the current schools plus one.

We do the same.
It keeps the flavor the same, while allowing for some customization. And along with one spell from any school of each level (and the low number of slots given with the 1/3 progression) it works pretty perfectly.

[Sigreid]

Ok people over analyze and interpret. So instead of choosing from evoke in adjuration spells but open up to pick from any school of magic from the Wizards list because that were the ek picks spells. But reading the posts got me thinking if a EK can pick from any other class spell list two. What would be the results.

My group still limits you to two schools, but you can pick your two schools. It works fine and lets you have EKs that specialize in different kinds of battlefield utility.

[R.Shackleford]

My group still limits you to two schools, but you can pick your two schools. It works fine and lets you have EKs that specialize in different kinds of battlefield utility.

I always forget that this isn't the core way of doing it until someone brings it up.