Eldariel
2016-09-06, 12:41 PM
So, just been fooling around with the various Animate Dead options. Zombie Dragons are one of the better ones, keeping their breath weapon, movement modes and so on; the single action limitation sucks particularly with Clumsy manoeuvrability, making them unable to fight efficiently airborne while unbuffed (now, if you can give them Pounce and Hover on the other hand... Hover can be acquired at least through Capote of Dragonfly Wings [DR335] + Greater Wings of Air [SC] but that's awfully expensive and short duration) but they're overall pretty solid. You can animate most Great Wyrms on level 10 in an area of Desecration...provided that you can of course get your hand on a body of a Great Wyrm Dragon (given the nature of Dragon Graveyards and the power of the living Dragons, this part is slightly trickier; you could plausibly use magic to craft the body though, as you don't need a spark of life).
What prompted this thread was that I began to wonder, what the best chassis is specifically thinking about the Breath Weapon. Zombie Dragon's Breath Weapon deals half damage but other effects are unaffected. Presumably this only refers to damage so ability damage/drain and energy drain, while numeric, would likewise be unaffected. A Zombie Dragon's Breath Save is based on Charisma so high Charisma is desirable (they get the -6) as is a good non-damage effect. All the Metallic Core Dragons have some non-damaging breath weapon in addition to their elemental attack.
Which Dragon does one want?
Brass Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#brassDragon) has terrible Charisma (20 for 37 HD Great Wyrm), but the effect causes Sleep. Plenty of immunities for that one (all things immune to mind-affecting as well as Dragons, Elves and others). On the plus side, anyone who does fall asleep is completely AWOL. Good mobility: 60' walk, 30' burrow and 250' fly.
Bronze Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#bronzeDragon) has a slightly better Charisma (26 for 39 HD Great Wyrm), with a Repulsion effect. Doesn't actually enable you to take out the target that reliably and it's a mind-affecting compulsion. Average mobility: 40' movement, 200' fly, 60' swim. Pass.
Copper Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#copperDragon) has terrible Charisma (22 for 38 HD Great Wyrm) with a Slow breath. This is actually a nice effect; Slow is not mind-affecting and not something you can really get immunity to. It doesn't completely destroy the target but severely restricts their options. The save DC is relatively low tho. Average mobility: 40' walk, 200' fly.
Gold Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#goldDragon) has great Charisma (32 for 41 HD Great Wyrm, 30 for 38 HD Wyrm) and their breath weapon causes Strength damage. Technically not damage so it's probably not halved. Wyrm should do 11, Great Wyrm 12. Ability damage immunity is pretty commonplace but it is absolutely brutal against everything not immune. Not to mention, those save DCs are pretty good (DC 36 for Wyrm vs. 31 on Copper Great Wyrm). Good mobility: 60' walk, 250' fly, 60' swim.
Silver Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#silverDragon) has good Charisma (30 for 40 HD Great Wyrm), with Paralysis on effect. Sadly paralysis immunity is actually quite common, but it does completely destroy anything not immune (1d6+12 rounds of Coup de Graces). Save DC 37 is among the highest available on level 10 Dragons. Average mobility: 40' walk, 200' fly.
Prismatic Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonEpic.htm#prismaticDragon) has great Charisma (32 for 38 HD Juvenile), with Prismatic Spray. Unreliable but presumably full effect either way and it's bound to ruin somebody's day. While most effects are rather unlikely to be faced with outright immunity, a couple of them are rather weak (20 damage, random plane, etc.). Great mobility: 60' walk, 300' fly!
Battle Dragon [Draconomicon] has poor Charisma (22 for 38 HD Great Wyrm) and the Gas merely causes Shakened. Yeah, that's not very impressive. Average mobility: 40' walk, 200' fly. Next!
Chaos Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (28 for 39 HD Great Wyrm) and a Confusion-gas. All the Mind Affecting considerations apply and while powerful, it's not on the top of the disable lists. Meh. Average mobility: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Howling Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (28 for 39 HD Wyrm, 30 for 42 HD Great Wyrm) and a Wisdom damage breath. Much the same as with Gold Dragon applies, except Wisdom damage is less debilitating than Strength damage unless it goes down to 0 or the character is a Wis-based caster. Average mobility: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Oceanus Dragon [Draconomicon] has good Charisma (30 for 40 HD Great Wyrm) and a daze gas breath weapon. That's actually pretty sweet; daze immunity is rare and the duration is long. Overall a great option! Poor mobility: 40' walk, 150' fly, 60' swim.
Pyroclastic Dragon [Draconomicon] has poor Charisma (20 for 40 HD Great Wyrm), but the breath weapon? A line of disintegration. No frills here - boom and gone. DC 32 save-or-be-disintegrated is pretty good. Weird movement: 60' walk, 150' fly, 40' climb?!, 45' burrow.
Radiant Dragon [Draconomicon] has great Charisma (30 for 39 HD Wyrm, 32 for 42 HD Great Wyrm), with a blinding Breath. Decidedly not bad. While sightless creatures are immune and there are auxiliary senses, sight is still largely quite useful and cutting it out is nice. And the save DC is 36. Average movement: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Rust Dragon [Draconomicon] has awful Charisma (18 for 39 HD Great Wyrm), with a rusting breath. It's pretty brutal destroying even attended magic items on a failed save. Not good for treasure but brutal for combat. Average movement: 60' walk, 200' fly, 45' burrow.
Styx Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (26 for 38 HD Great Wyrm) with an Int damage breath. Pretty much the same considerations apply as for Howling Dragon's Wis gas. Awful movement: These guys can't fly! 60' walk, 60' swim, 20' burrow.
Tarterian Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (26 for 38 HD Wyrm or 41 HD Great Wyrm) with Crushing Despair-inducing breath. Uh, yeah, don't bother, -2 to rolls isn't worth the effort. Average movement: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Shadow Dragon [Draconomicon] has great Charisma (33 for 37 HD Great Wyrm) but who even cares! Their breath allows Reflex but it's still 4 negative levels (even on success). One of those "Are they immune? Well, then they are ****ed."-effects. Death Ward offers a rather easy low level counter though but by default has a low duration. Average movement: 80' walk, 150' fly.
So, I'm surely missing some Dragons; feel free to add good ones. It's worth noting that while the damage is halved, a Young Adult Force Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonEpic.htm#forceDragon) can still output a very respectable 12d12 Force damage Cone with a ridiculous save DC (38). But I feel the non-damage effects are more useful. Personal favorites include Pyroclastic Dragon (obviously), Shadow Dragon, Copper Dragon & Oceanus Dragon. Rust Dragon is just mean. Overall, these things are hilarious though again, acquisition is tricky - Polymorph Any Object can probably produce Animatable bodies though (but as it's only Permanent, not Instantaneous, it can be Dispelled).
EDIT: Now I'm thinking, what's the easiest way to give the Zombie Dragon Pounce? Dark Chaos Shuffle doesn't work since it's not a living creature (plus Dark Chaos Shuffle), and the spells related are normally Personal. I guess you could shuffle it into a living creature, Awaken Undead would get it feats enabling picking up something like Dire Charge. Spellguard of Silverymoon can't cast Lion's Charge on others since it's not a defensive spell. I suppose it could be given a Tiger Claw item of Pouncing Charge if the requirements could be covered. Either way, all the options feel like one-shot options. Hard to get a consistently available full attack. Pesky.
EDIT#2: Wait. Simple Fly-spell gives it good maneuverability enabling it to hover, does it not? I believe it could just fly at its normal speed at Clumsy and then hover with Good when attacking or using Breath Weapon or whatever. Saves an awful lot of trouble.
What prompted this thread was that I began to wonder, what the best chassis is specifically thinking about the Breath Weapon. Zombie Dragon's Breath Weapon deals half damage but other effects are unaffected. Presumably this only refers to damage so ability damage/drain and energy drain, while numeric, would likewise be unaffected. A Zombie Dragon's Breath Save is based on Charisma so high Charisma is desirable (they get the -6) as is a good non-damage effect. All the Metallic Core Dragons have some non-damaging breath weapon in addition to their elemental attack.
Which Dragon does one want?
Brass Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#brassDragon) has terrible Charisma (20 for 37 HD Great Wyrm), but the effect causes Sleep. Plenty of immunities for that one (all things immune to mind-affecting as well as Dragons, Elves and others). On the plus side, anyone who does fall asleep is completely AWOL. Good mobility: 60' walk, 30' burrow and 250' fly.
Bronze Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#bronzeDragon) has a slightly better Charisma (26 for 39 HD Great Wyrm), with a Repulsion effect. Doesn't actually enable you to take out the target that reliably and it's a mind-affecting compulsion. Average mobility: 40' movement, 200' fly, 60' swim. Pass.
Copper Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#copperDragon) has terrible Charisma (22 for 38 HD Great Wyrm) with a Slow breath. This is actually a nice effect; Slow is not mind-affecting and not something you can really get immunity to. It doesn't completely destroy the target but severely restricts their options. The save DC is relatively low tho. Average mobility: 40' walk, 200' fly.
Gold Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#goldDragon) has great Charisma (32 for 41 HD Great Wyrm, 30 for 38 HD Wyrm) and their breath weapon causes Strength damage. Technically not damage so it's probably not halved. Wyrm should do 11, Great Wyrm 12. Ability damage immunity is pretty commonplace but it is absolutely brutal against everything not immune. Not to mention, those save DCs are pretty good (DC 36 for Wyrm vs. 31 on Copper Great Wyrm). Good mobility: 60' walk, 250' fly, 60' swim.
Silver Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#silverDragon) has good Charisma (30 for 40 HD Great Wyrm), with Paralysis on effect. Sadly paralysis immunity is actually quite common, but it does completely destroy anything not immune (1d6+12 rounds of Coup de Graces). Save DC 37 is among the highest available on level 10 Dragons. Average mobility: 40' walk, 200' fly.
Prismatic Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonEpic.htm#prismaticDragon) has great Charisma (32 for 38 HD Juvenile), with Prismatic Spray. Unreliable but presumably full effect either way and it's bound to ruin somebody's day. While most effects are rather unlikely to be faced with outright immunity, a couple of them are rather weak (20 damage, random plane, etc.). Great mobility: 60' walk, 300' fly!
Battle Dragon [Draconomicon] has poor Charisma (22 for 38 HD Great Wyrm) and the Gas merely causes Shakened. Yeah, that's not very impressive. Average mobility: 40' walk, 200' fly. Next!
Chaos Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (28 for 39 HD Great Wyrm) and a Confusion-gas. All the Mind Affecting considerations apply and while powerful, it's not on the top of the disable lists. Meh. Average mobility: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Howling Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (28 for 39 HD Wyrm, 30 for 42 HD Great Wyrm) and a Wisdom damage breath. Much the same as with Gold Dragon applies, except Wisdom damage is less debilitating than Strength damage unless it goes down to 0 or the character is a Wis-based caster. Average mobility: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Oceanus Dragon [Draconomicon] has good Charisma (30 for 40 HD Great Wyrm) and a daze gas breath weapon. That's actually pretty sweet; daze immunity is rare and the duration is long. Overall a great option! Poor mobility: 40' walk, 150' fly, 60' swim.
Pyroclastic Dragon [Draconomicon] has poor Charisma (20 for 40 HD Great Wyrm), but the breath weapon? A line of disintegration. No frills here - boom and gone. DC 32 save-or-be-disintegrated is pretty good. Weird movement: 60' walk, 150' fly, 40' climb?!, 45' burrow.
Radiant Dragon [Draconomicon] has great Charisma (30 for 39 HD Wyrm, 32 for 42 HD Great Wyrm), with a blinding Breath. Decidedly not bad. While sightless creatures are immune and there are auxiliary senses, sight is still largely quite useful and cutting it out is nice. And the save DC is 36. Average movement: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Rust Dragon [Draconomicon] has awful Charisma (18 for 39 HD Great Wyrm), with a rusting breath. It's pretty brutal destroying even attended magic items on a failed save. Not good for treasure but brutal for combat. Average movement: 60' walk, 200' fly, 45' burrow.
Styx Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (26 for 38 HD Great Wyrm) with an Int damage breath. Pretty much the same considerations apply as for Howling Dragon's Wis gas. Awful movement: These guys can't fly! 60' walk, 60' swim, 20' burrow.
Tarterian Dragon [Draconomicon] has decent Charisma (26 for 38 HD Wyrm or 41 HD Great Wyrm) with Crushing Despair-inducing breath. Uh, yeah, don't bother, -2 to rolls isn't worth the effort. Average movement: 60' walk, 200' fly.
Shadow Dragon [Draconomicon] has great Charisma (33 for 37 HD Great Wyrm) but who even cares! Their breath allows Reflex but it's still 4 negative levels (even on success). One of those "Are they immune? Well, then they are ****ed."-effects. Death Ward offers a rather easy low level counter though but by default has a low duration. Average movement: 80' walk, 150' fly.
So, I'm surely missing some Dragons; feel free to add good ones. It's worth noting that while the damage is halved, a Young Adult Force Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonEpic.htm#forceDragon) can still output a very respectable 12d12 Force damage Cone with a ridiculous save DC (38). But I feel the non-damage effects are more useful. Personal favorites include Pyroclastic Dragon (obviously), Shadow Dragon, Copper Dragon & Oceanus Dragon. Rust Dragon is just mean. Overall, these things are hilarious though again, acquisition is tricky - Polymorph Any Object can probably produce Animatable bodies though (but as it's only Permanent, not Instantaneous, it can be Dispelled).
EDIT: Now I'm thinking, what's the easiest way to give the Zombie Dragon Pounce? Dark Chaos Shuffle doesn't work since it's not a living creature (plus Dark Chaos Shuffle), and the spells related are normally Personal. I guess you could shuffle it into a living creature, Awaken Undead would get it feats enabling picking up something like Dire Charge. Spellguard of Silverymoon can't cast Lion's Charge on others since it's not a defensive spell. I suppose it could be given a Tiger Claw item of Pouncing Charge if the requirements could be covered. Either way, all the options feel like one-shot options. Hard to get a consistently available full attack. Pesky.
EDIT#2: Wait. Simple Fly-spell gives it good maneuverability enabling it to hover, does it not? I believe it could just fly at its normal speed at Clumsy and then hover with Good when attacking or using Breath Weapon or whatever. Saves an awful lot of trouble.