PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder Haunted Heroes Handbook



Slithery D
2016-09-06, 05:57 PM
For those who don't have it yet, the Haunted Heroes Handbook (latest Player Companion) has quite a few strong options of interest. Any favorites?

Here's my notables:

For Martials

1. Ghostslayer is a combat feat that allows attacks against incorporeal at the cost of a swift action. If the weapon is already +2 you get Ghost Touch. Let the Fighter contribute against that Allip.

2. Guiding Spirit trait lets you roll a d20 twice once per day at the cost of cost of a swift action. (Burn the ability, then must use in the next round, so best for full attack low iteratives or crit fishing.)

3. The Possessed Hand line of feats gives you lots of nifty abilities of use to martials.

Possessed Hand: +1 insight to hit/damage, once per day swift action draw of a 5lb item, +1 to disable device and sleight of hand. -2 to Concentration checks, so beware Magus and other gish builds. This is a prereq for the following feats; for all of them except Hand's Detachment it's the only prereq.

Hand's Sight: Darkvision 60' and can't be flanked if your hand is empty.

Hand's Knowledge: Pick a knowledge skill to be a class skill. Also pick one of disable device, escape artist, heal, sleight of hand, or UMD to become a class skill. Once per day you can get a 1/2 level boost to a skill check with any of the foregoing, not just the one you picked.

Hand's Autonomy: Reduce penalties for TWF by -2, to a minimum of -1. Stacks with TWF. When you suffer most disabling conditions (but where is daze???) the hand can: perform some skill checks (including UMD!), retrieve/pick up an item, knock you prone and drag you, "other appropriate actions" (examples are pour a potion in your throat or slap you awake), make one melee or ranged (i.e. thrown) attack.

Hand's Detachment: Separate your hand to act as a crawling hand familiar. It doesn't get most familiar abilities, but does get empathic link and speak with master. Regenerates in 2d4 days if destroyed. Prereq: This one requires Hand's Autonomy in addition to Possessed Hand.

4. Spirit Ridden feat lets you do a 1 hour seance every day to gain skill ranks equal to your character level in any skill you choose (for that day) and it counts a class skill. Only lasts level hours, though, so take it mid career when you can do the seance at the beginning of the day and expect it to last. "The spirit influences your personality" in some unspecified way that allows some RP opportunities or GM shenanigans, I guess.

Resisting Mind-Affecting or Possession

1. Subconscious Inspiration feat allows you to reroll a failed Will save every round you are confused, compelled, or possessed. If you make it you can use a purely mental action that round. So SLA, some class abilities, still/silent spell, psychic spell, etc.

2. Spiritual Training feat allows a dominated or possessed PC to remain aware of what is happening and use a swift action to get a new Will save. If you succeed you get to act normally for one round (minus your swift action). If you fail, you can't try again for another hour, but the possessing entity doesn't get a swift action that round. Use at critical moments, I guess.

Equipment

1. Storm Glass - Only costs 80 gp, changes color if a non-native outsider spends 1 minute within 60' of it. Perfect for anyone worried about Succubus or similar infiltrators, just have everyone sit in a waiting room with one of these. Goes well with the standard Detect Magic scan.

2. Jar of Haunt Siphoning - 6,250 GP, you can deal 3d6 damage to a manifested haunt, if you neutralize it you harvest it for a negative energy grenade that works like alchemist's fire.

3. Shawl of the Lingering Phantom - Attention Spiritualists! Head slot, 3200 GP, you get the Skill Focus of your phantom even when it's manifested. When it's in your consciousness you get an extra +4 competence bonus.

Archetypes

1. The Alchemist Ectoplasm Master adds all relevant Necromancy spells of 6th level or fewer (there are more than I thought, mostly aura type stuff) to his formula list. You can also take three new discoveries. One provides Summon Monster I-VI on your extract list to use in extract form to summon critters with the ectoplasmic creature template. One trades out your Mutagen AC bonus for immunity to crits and precision damage. The last makes your bombs do full damage to haunts and incorporeals, and full nonlethal damage to everyone else.

What do you pay for these expanded options? Brew Potion, and nothing else.

2. Invoker Witch gets a menu of options that work like Hunter's animal focus. Works minutes per level in minute increments, activated with a swift action. The best ones lower DR/SR of a target by 2 (later 5), boost DC of hexes and patron spells by 1/2/3, gain a +3/6/9 bonus on Acrobatics(?) and Concentration checks, increase the duration of spells cast on self by 1/2/3 rounds (are their great 1 round self buffs?), boost spell/natural attack damage 1 per die and eventually get critical focus and improved critical on your spells and natural attacks. At level 10 you can run two of these at once. Total cost? Hexes at 1, 8, 10, 16.

3. LOL, LOL, LOL Pact Wizard (not to be mistaken for the Pact Wizard archetype previously published in the familiar book). You pick a Witch patron and add its bonus spells to your spell list and spell book (Healing patron, White Mage fans! Ancestors or Devotion if you want some meh other Cleric spells) You can spontaneously cast Patron spells with your prepared (non-school bonus) spells. You can prepare your spells in 15 minutes rather than an hour (whatever). At 5th level you get a half strength Oracle curse; if it provides bonus spells, you get those on your list (rarely relevant) and in your book. At 10th level as a free action you can 3+1/2 Int bonus times per day roll twice (not reroll) any caster level check, concentration check, initiative check, or saving throw. At 15th level when you double roll you also add your Int bonus to the result, and you get a 1 level discount on any metamagic applied to your patron spells or any Oracle curse spells. Ok, the 20th level ability is kind of lame, when you roll twice and get a 20 you automatically succeed even if you normally wouldn't. (Good if you're lucky on an obscene concentration check from really high damage, I guess.)

For this you pay Scribe Scroll and your bonus feats. Unless you really, really wanted to craft a lot or pick up Spell Perfection, please for the love of god take this archetype.

Dude, Whoa

1. Rivethun Adherent trait gives you a +2 bonus to will saves if you have any disease, poison, or Str/Dex/Con damage/drain, or a +2 bonus to fort saves if you are insane, charmed, compelled, or have Int/Wis/Cha damage. Take some drugs or poisons to strategically knock one point off an odd numbered mental and physical attribute and enjoy your dual Iron Will/Great Fortitude two feats from one trait at no mechanical cost.

2. Possessed Sorcerer Bloodline. Note this capstone, which gives you two characters to control with full actions, and is arguably the most powerful capstone in the game:
Dual Spirit (Su): At 20th level, you gain immunity to mind-affecting effects. Whenever you successfully employ a possession effect (such as magic jar or possessionOA), you remain in complete control of your body and the body of your possessed target.

Giddonihah
2016-09-06, 09:49 PM
Spirit Ridden is nice for getting what is essentially the Medium's Trickster Lesser Spirit ability for any character.
Really flexible feat.

Channel Spirit can be gotten by anyone with Spirit Ridden or a Medium, it gives you a Medium spirit for some time, but the spirit will then possess you for an equal amount of time afterwards. Mediums get their full spirit bonuses, everyone else just gets it as a +1 Spirit Bonus without the Lesser Spirit Ability. Also stops you from being the vessel of two spirits at the same time, making it a bit pointless for standard Medium.

It might be really really good depending on how it interacts with Spirit Dancer, wording dependent. From what I can tell, while you make choices as if you are channeling at the start of day, Spirit Dance never actually channels a spirit into you persay, potentially letting you spirit dance plus Channel Spirit. If it works like that, you can Guardian+Champion with this feat, or other fun combos. Yeah you have to give the spirit some possession time, but most of the Legendary Spirits aren't that bad.

Even if the above doesn't work it can at least be used to grab trickster for longer term skill use, just remember to get your party members to tie you up when waiting out the possession time.

I like Spirit Ally, which gives a perpetual Unseen Servant that gets stronger as you level. Its not powerful, but its a cool option.

Really I'm fairly happy with most of the feats in this book, only real let downs are some of the over specialized ones in the Breaching the Veil chapter.

Uda Wendo is a medium archytpe that is usually better than standard medium for hierophants and Archmages. It gives access to domain spells and a 1st level domain power.

Rivethun Spirit channeller is another medium archetype but how it functions confuses me. Think it lets you make a Wis Medium thats kinda like a Spirit Dancer but with some support abilities attached.

Nice to get two playable Medium archetypes, both without location restrictions and with interesting but different flavors.

Steelbound Fighter
Trade Weapon training for a Sentient Weapon.
The Sentient Weapon still gets Damage and attack progression, so its mostly trading Advanced Weapon Training for the sentient weapon perks.
It gets some cool perks like 3rd level spell like (Greater invis is 3rd for Mediums, just saying), so I think its a fun alternative.

Extra Anchovies
2016-09-06, 09:53 PM
1. Ghostslayer is a combat feat that allows attacks against incorporeal at the cost of a swift action. If the weapon is already +2 you get Ghost Touch. Let the Fighter contribute against that Allip.

Ooh, neat. Do attacks empowered by this feat still only deal half damage against incorporeal targets? Does the Ghost Touch effect still require the swift action?


Possessed Hand: +1 insight to hit/damage, once per day swift action draw of a 5lb item, +1 to disable device and sleight of hand. -2 to Concentration checks, so beware Magus and other gish builds. This is a prereq for the following feats; for all of them except Hand's Detachment it's the only prereq.

Wait, this is just straight-up +1 hit/damage as a feat, of an uncommon bonus type? Neat.


Hand's Sight: Darkvision 60' and can't be flanked if your hand is empty.

Does the darkvision also require the empty hand? If so, it might be best when paired with a one-handed weapon; OHF when you need the darkvision, or THF during your turn and keep a hand free outside of your turn to avoid flanking.


Hand's Autonomy: Reduce penalties for TWF by -2, to a minimum of -1. Stacks with TWF. When you suffer most disabling conditions (but where is daze???) the hand can: perform some skill checks (including UMD!), retrieve/pick up an item, knock you prone and drag you, "other appropriate actions" (examples are pour a potion in your throat or slap you awake), make one melee or ranged (i.e. thrown) attack.

Haha, this feat chain is just gross. Shame it doesn't work with daze, but I guess Paizo wants there to be one unavoidable lose-your-turn condition.


At 15th level when you double roll you also add your Int bonus to the result, and you get a 1 level discount on any metamagic applied to your patron spells or any Oracle curse spells.

Paizo nooooo

At least it requires 15 levels of single-classed Wizard.

Giddonihah
2016-09-06, 10:10 PM
Wait, this is just straight-up +1 hit/damage as a feat, of an uncommon bonus type? Neat.


Not quite, Its only with one-handed weapon, light weapon, unarmed strike, or natural attacks made with the chosen hand.
So not with Two handed weapons.

Slithery D
2016-09-06, 10:26 PM
Ooh, neat. Do attacks empowered by this feat still only deal half damage against incorporeal targets? Does the Ghost Touch effect still require the swift action?

Yes to both.




Wait, this is just straight-up +1 hit/damage as a feat, of an uncommon bonus type? Neat.

As mentioned above, light or one handed weapon wielded in that hand. So no two handed attacks, and only one weapon if you're TWF.



Does the darkvision also require the empty hand? If so, it might be best when paired with a one-handed weapon; OHF when you need the darkvision, or THF during your turn and keep a hand free outside of your turn to avoid flanking.

Both abilities depend on an empty hand. Good for Magi (but the -2 concentration penalty) or Swashbucklers.

Ninjaxenomorph
2016-09-06, 10:54 PM
Beyond the initial stretch of levels, getting negatives to concentration on a magus is mostly a curiosity that can be easily compensated for. Looks like someone was reading too much Vampire Hunter D with the Possessed Hand feats... I love it.

Extra Anchovies
2016-09-07, 01:56 AM
Both abilities depend on an empty hand. Good for Magi (but the -2 concentration penalty) or Swashbucklers.

Hmmm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae8t-QKPVY4). I do know what my next Swashbuckler will be spending their mid-level feats on, though :smallbiggrin:

squiggit
2016-09-07, 02:14 AM
Not quite, Its only with one-handed weapon, light weapon, unarmed strike, or natural attacks made with the chosen hand.
So not with Two handed weapons.

Kind of mean the first feat requires you to use your hand to get its bonuses and then one of the followup feats requires you to not use your hand to get its bonuses.

Kurald Galain
2016-09-07, 03:19 AM
Okay, here are my thoughts.

Ghostslayer isn't worth the feat because incorporeals are relatively rare, but is a great choice for Brawlers. The same goes for Subconscious Inspiration and Spiritual Training.
Possessed Hand is a decent enough prereq at +1/+1. The Magus can handle a -2 to concentration, if need be.
Hand's Autonomy is a great fallback for emergencies. Hand's Sight, Knowledge, and Detachment don't strike me as worth the feat.
Spirit Ridden is meh in most campaigns. You can spend a trait to get something on your class list already. It is pretty good in PFS, where you don't have a regular team and may really need a particular skill depending on the scenario.
Channel Spirit is just a +1 with a nasty drawback, I wouldn't do that.
Spirit Ally is very cool, I just don't get why it needs a prereq like that. By that level, you can cheaply get an item for the same effect.
Jar of Haunt Siphoning is way too expensive. Haunts aren't so dangerous that you need special prepwork for them.
Pact Wizard is great at higher level, but wizards don't particularly need to add more spells to their list (assuming you use CLW wands or Channel to heal). The interesting curse here is Deaf (free silent spell on everything you cast); Powerless Prophecy (free uncanny dodge, init bonus at L10) and possibly Wrecker (free disable device skill). Frankly I'd rather have the feats (and be a diviner if you want rerolls).
Uda Wendo would be great because there are some very good domain powers out there.
Steelbound Fighter sounds like a good deal for a fighter if you like the flavor.
Guiding Spirit is a great trait; I'd use it for a primary attack that really has to land, or a critical skill. It doesn't work on saves due to being a swift.
Rivethun Adherent can be cheesed by drugging yourself, but frankly taking Glory of Old is easier.



are their great 1 round self buffs?)
Grace.

Giddonihah
2016-09-07, 03:46 AM
Okay, here are my thoughts.

Channel Spirit is just a +1 with a nasty drawback, I wouldn't do that.


Well its a +1 and a Seance Boon, so a little bit better.
As an example, say you choose the Champion, you would get the following:+1Attack Rolls, Strength Checks, Strength Skills, Fortitude Save and +3 to non spell damage rolls.

I think its enough to justify some fringe use, with drastic ranges on how good/bad it is depending on how the GM plays out the NPC or whether a player is willing to just debilitate themselves to waste the possession time.
Several of the spirits seem like they are pretty easy to manage from what little we have to go on, Marshal and Champion maybe being willing to party with you anyways, with Trickster being the standout as the one likely to backstab people.

Something interesting to note, that if the GM actually uses the rules of possession the NPC in control of you is probally superior to your character in one or more ways (For instance Archmage would atleast have Spellcraft, and maybe even spells). In which case, diplomancing/bribing them like any other NPC could be interesting.

Serafina
2016-09-07, 04:20 AM
They really dropped the ball on the Pact Wizard IMO.

Right away, at 1st level, you trade out Scribe Scrolls for the Fast Study Discovery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-discoveries/arcane-discoveries-paizo/fast-study), and some extra spells that you can cast spontaneously.
This is a large increase in versatility. As we all know, the biggest strength of the Wizard is always having the right spell for the right situation. Well, that requires a player to prepare those spells properly. However, Fast Study allows you to sidestep this for any out-of-combat spells - keep a spell slot open, put the right spell into it in just a minute. It can also be used to prepare spells you expended in combat very quickly - indeed, the speed is fast enough that you can do it after basically any combat, and in some cases even before combat. And spontaneous casting doesn't help the case here, since you can now use these open spell slots without the need for preparation, or can have a spell you have ready at all times.

The 5th-level trade isn't bad either. Granted, you have to take the right curse to really benefit from it - but losing a feat for constant Silent Spells isn't bad. The Initiative penalty hurts, but can be alleviated (for example, by being a Diviner). And the inability to verbally communicate is sidestepped by getting a Improved Familiar with Telepathy, such as an Imp or Faerie Dragon.

The 10th-level ability is just good. 5+ uses per day - and you can re-roll almost any check that matters to you. Caster level checks (for dispelling or spell resistance), Concentration checks (for getting off spells), Initiative checks (for acting first) and saving throws (for not dying). It's really really good and I don't get why you can get re-rolls on that many things.
Oh, and you get a metamagic reduction on top of that. Now that clashes a bit with taking off-list spells via your Patron - but nobody says you had to do that. You could have taken Shadow, and with the right traits you can now suddenly throw out Quickened Shadow Conjuration. Without preparing it, too. And with a later upgrade to Quickened Greater Shadow Conjuration
This is easily worth a feat, and better than most Wizard Discoveries. Which incidentally you can still take via normal feats, this archetype doesn't prevent that.

And then the 15th-level ability. Yikes. +Intelligence modifier to all the checks you can reroll, when you do so.
So this is +Intmod to Saves. At this level, easily +8 to saves, 7 times per day. You almost don't have to worry about save-or-die anymore, even on your fortitude save.
And it's +Intmod to penetrate spell resistance, or dispel a spell. The equivalent of 8 caster levels, you can now outdo almost any spellcaster. This is better than two feats, and the limited uses are easily made up for by all the other applications.
And in pinch, it's +Intmod to Initiative. But that on a Diviner, they can roll twice and get +15 to the check. Basically, a guarantee to act first.
The +Intmod to Concentration checks is barely worth mentioning, but hey if you need it, it's an option too.
The only saving grace here lies in the limited uses. But basically any Wizard will have 7 uses at this level, and will add at least two more in the next few levels.

The 20th-level ability is barely worth mentioning, though it too allows some broken things. Automatically succesful dispel checks, for example - or overcoming infinite spell resitance, such as from spell immunity. Well, possibly at least.


So basically any trade-out you get is at least the equivalent to a feat, if not better. It starts out strong, and gets a ludicrously powerful ability at 15th level.
And the really annoying this is that they could have easily left it with a more interesting mechanic. Just the re-roll in exchange for a drawback - you know, because it's supposed to be "great power, great price". That would have been fine, but other than the curse this is basically entirely an upgrade.


Oh, and if you want more feats - you CAN combine this with Exploiter Wizard. It costs you your School, which mostly hurts on account of losing the extra spell slots. But in exchange, you get a lot of feat-equivalents, so depending on your build that can be entirely worth it.

Extra Anchovies
2016-09-07, 05:51 AM
I think its enough to justify some fringe use, with drastic ranges on how good/bad it is depending on how the GM plays out the NPC or whether a player is willing to just debilitate themselves to waste the possession time.
Several of the spirits seem like they are pretty easy to manage from what little we have to go on, Marshal and Champion maybe being willing to party with you anyways, with Trickster being the standout as the one likely to backstab people.

Something interesting to note, that if the GM actually uses the rules of possession the NPC in control of you is probally superior to your character in one or more ways (For instance Archmage would atleast have Spellcraft, and maybe even spells). In which case, diplomancing/bribing them like any other NPC could be interesting.

It also depends on how willing the GM is to let the player control the possessing entity. The spirit being channeled is kinda just returned from the grave for a bit; they don't necessarily have any unfinished business and the groups or causes they supported may be long gone or irrelevant. And they know they'll be going back to oblivion after a fairly short time, so any personal gains made will be most likely rendered moot. So what is there to do, really? Not much besides taking their new body - and its abilities - for a bit of a joyride, and what better way to do that than some good old-fashioned adventuring to put those skills to the test? In fact, it could be interesting to make a character who has one or more spirits they routinely channel and time-share their own body with, perhaps even writing letters back and forth like pen-pals...

Oh, man. That has to be my next character.

Slithery D
2016-09-07, 02:25 PM
I'll agree that adding spells to the Wizard list, most likely through the Healing patron, isn't the best part of the Pact Wizard. Spontaneous casting and (much later) metamagic reduction is the better deal.

I guess the good news is that there aren't that many great patron spell lists for a low level wizard to spam in combat. Plausible patrons with 3 useful spells out the first four include Nightmares, Elements, Peace, and Storms. None of these are going to end the world. Shadow is definitely the standout, but not until mid to high levels. I'd probably take Healing

Slithery D
2016-09-08, 09:17 PM
Okay, here are my thoughts.

Jar of Haunt Siphoning is way too expensive. Haunts aren't so dangerous that you need special prepwork for them.



It's expensive, but it's the only way I know of (other than a Cure wand, I guess) for a martial (and most low level arcane casters) to hurt a haunt. No UMD required. The harvesting for a negative energy grenade is pretty minor, but in the hands of NPCs with low CR haunts on a 1 day reset they could harvest quite a bit over time. If you can sell it for the market price of Alchemist's Fire it would pay for itself after 312.5 harvestings, not bad if you're an evil cult sitting on a haunted lair for years. Or you stockpile it for a lot of undead minion healing.

Kurald Galain
2016-09-09, 06:48 AM
Possessed Hand: +1 insight to hit/damage, once per day swift action draw of a 5lb item, +1 to disable device and sleight of hand. -2 to Concentration checks, so beware Magus and other gish builds. This is a prereq for the following feats; for all of them except Hand's Detachment it's the only prereq.
It strikes me that to a Magus, the hand's autonomy feat will reduce the penalty for spell combat as well. So PH + HA effectively gives +2 to hit, +1 to damage in addition to the ha-ha-I'm-not-stunned effect.

Secret Wizard
2016-09-09, 09:01 AM
Does the hand work with unarmed strikes?

Slithery D
2016-09-09, 09:09 AM
Does the hand work with unarmed strikes?

"Any attack you make with a one-handed weapon, light weapon, unarmed strike, or natural attack with your possessed hand gains a +1 insight bonus on the attack roll and damage roll."

For unarmed strikes I can't see any reason to claim you're making all of your attacks with the same hand.

Secret Wizard
2016-09-09, 02:54 PM
That makes it one of the best feats out there for Monks then, as accuracy is super hard to come by. To bad it doesn't apply to kicks.

Extra Anchovies
2016-09-09, 04:15 PM
"Any attack you make with a one-handed weapon, light weapon, unarmed strike, or natural attack with your possessed hand gains a +1 insight bonus on the attack roll and damage roll."

For unarmed strikes I can't see any reason to claim you're making all of your attacks with the same hand.

Wait, so Possessed Hand only benefits you when you're holding something in the hand, but Hand's Sight requires the hand be empty? :smallannoyed:


That makes it one of the best feats out there for Monks then, as accuracy is super hard to come by. To bad it doesn't apply to kicks.

If the answer to my above question is "yes", unarmed is also the only fighting style that can benefit from Hand's Sight and Possessed Hand simultaneously.

MasterFu
2016-09-10, 05:35 AM
Wait, so Possessed Hand only benefits you when you're holding something in the hand, but Hand's Sight requires the hand be empty? :smallannoyed:



If the answer to my above question is "yes", unarmed is also the only fighting style that can benefit from Hand's Sight and Possessed Hand simultaneously.

For Pathfinder, Soul Knife with the Shielded Blade archetype. You are treated as having a shield in your empty hand. I've been wanting to build a multi-arm Aberrant Aegis with this and the Shield Slam chain (free bull rush on a shield slam). Might be time to try.