House Ruling Advice?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically I'm wondering what suggested types of house rules one would suggest for a campaign with the general focuses.

1. Giving player characters more depth.
Basically, I've always been annoyed by the "Pick your class, you are this class" general feel that D&D and Pathfinder provide. And how if you Multi-Class it's usually either Optimiser Cheese, or someone Roleplaying it but being weaker as a result. I'd want more feature's to be able to let player characters be more fleshed out and unique.

Some thing's I've already looked at that could help with this is the Gestalt rule from 3.5 Unearthed Arcana, and using Ultimate Campaign for traits, but they gain ALL the traits from their history and not just a limit of two. Though anything else that could help add to this (or suggestions to balance around these power boosters) would be appreciated.

2. Less Magic
More specifically, I want to try avoid two different magic related phenomenons from happening.

a) Casters eventually become the be-all end-all players. Where most challenges that don't fall short of Dragons, Demons or Gods is solved with a handful of spells.
b) Magic Mart. Where Magic items stop becoming something special and instead become another type of currency to buy and sell on mass.

This one I've had a bit more trouble on. I've debated combing Automatic Bonus Progression (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression) and Scaling Magic Items (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/scaling-magic-items) to address the Magic Mart bit. I'm not sure how I could go about combining the two systems. And even if I could, a way to simplify them a bit so the campaign isn't as slowed down by tracking wealth by level and such.

Meanwhile for less Caster Monopoly? I was tempted to go the "No Tier 1 & 2" class deal. But Tiers being subjective alone, that approach also seemed it would step on the toes of player depth completely. I also considered maybe E6 or E8, but there's too many fun things players have the potential to do at later levels that get a bit locked out by having a low level cap.

3. More uses for Gold
A lot of the time the use for Gold is very Skinner Box. Kill mosnters, get gold. Use gold for more items, get more gold. Now, the whole Magic item fixes above would address the "Use gold for more items" half of this. But it leads to then an even bigger problem, gold becomes almost useless. An easy way to address this would be "Run a Kingdom", but although I'm open to using those rules as an option is seems a bit easy and not always fitting for adventurers. But I'm not so sure as to what else I could do to allow for uses for gold that isn't simply relying on the more RP savvy players to make good "bribes" or "donations" for favors and such. But that alone would also make the use of gold a bit too shallow.

4. Non-Generic NPCs
I'm not a big fan of NPC Classes, and if I can I'd usually prefer creating my own NPCs than taking stuff from the Monster Manual when possible (though I'll still use the Monster Manual as a base). But this can often cause some balance issues (one I'm hoping Gestalt PCs helps with). However the added diversity and complexity of NPCs as a whole could be a lot more grand, such as say an Elite Religious Order filled with Paladins, Clerics and Inquisitors specialised in the elimination of heretics.

I'll add more things as I think of them, but these are the main four.
Thanks for any help ahead of time.

--Edit--

5. No Alignment Based Mechanics
Basically when it comes to the age old debate of Alignment I sit very much in the camp that it does more harm than good. In short, it encourages players to act/think one dimension-ally and stereo-typically rather than apply any real or serious thought to matters. So by default I don't ever require players to pick an alignment and I get rid of all alignment restrictions on classes and such. However, this can become a little tricky when stuff like Smite Evil, Detect Evil, Unholy weapons etc. Now for some of these I'm tend to do with that Smite Evil = Smite, and Detect Evil = Detect Magic, but they function differently enough I don't want to apply one overarching mechanical fix. So any suggestions here would also be appreciated.

6. No Level or Ability damage/drain
Basically I just find level damage/drain to have two big issues of being too cruel to players, and it just slows down combat too much as people have to readjust their stats. Now, removing spells from players spell list for these effects seem simple enough, but I don't know what to replace it with when it's an NPC ability. Life drain or something?

[Kurald Galain]

Ok...

(1) It's not generally true in Pathfinder that multiclasses are weaker as a result. In particular a wide variety of one- or two-level dips are very viable. Using traits is highly recommended; giving more than two might not be. Note that 90% of traits printed are simply "get a +X bonus to <skill> or <saving throw>" and those that aren't are either pointlessly fiddly, or mildly overpowering if you get more of them.

(2) At levels 1-10, caster supremacy isn't really a big deal. At higher levels, you could go with either requesting full casters to multiclass into something, or restricting access to 6th thru 9th level spells.

(3) The simple answer is to hand out less gold and items. Players tend not to mind.

(5) Done that for years, it's not a problem. Smite evil becomes Smite Undead And Demons (which are common enough), Detect Evil is just not needed.

(6) I'm not seeing the problem with these. Ability damage is as easy to deal with as fatigure and easy to remove; level drain is very rare already.

HTH.

[EldritchWeaver]

If you want more balanced casters, use Spheres of Power exclusively for your players. This magic system has been aimed at Tier 3 and mostly succeeds (some Tier 2 stuff still left). If the plain vanilla version is still too strong then it is easy to dilute the power by enforcing multiclassing with less powerful casters (this works because the CL stacks by default) or to restrict the number of magic talents taken from a single sphere to character level / 2 or simply forbid advanced talents (which are the campaign changing/breaking ones).

[Extra Anchovies]

Basically I'm wondering what suggested types of house rules one would suggest for a campaign with the general focuses.

1. Giving player characters more depth.
Basically, I've always been annoyed by the "Pick your class, you are this class" general feel that D&D and Pathfinder provide. And how if you Multi-Class it's usually either Optimiser Cheese, or someone Roleplaying it but being weaker as a result. I'd want more feature's to be able to let player characters be more fleshed out and unique.

Some thing's I've already looked at that could help with this is the Gestalt rule from 3.5 Unearthed Arcana, and using Ultimate Campaign for traits, but they gain ALL the traits from their history and not just a limit of two. Though anything else that could help add to this (or suggestions to balance around these power boosters) would be appreciated.

Pathfinder actually has support for a lot of multiclass concepts if you dig into the archetypes and hybrid classes. Traits can also help produce some interesting characters, especially if you require that traits be reflected in fluff somehow - I often have trouble writing backstories, but I've found that starting with class and traits and building from there can turn up some very good starting points.


2. Less Magic
More specifically, I want to try avoid two different magic related phenomenons from happening.

a) Casters eventually become the be-all end-all players. Where most challenges that don't fall short of Dragons, Demons or Gods is solved with a handful of spells.
b) Magic Mart. Where Magic items stop becoming something special and instead become another type of currency to buy and sell on mass.

This one I've had a bit more trouble on. I've debated combing Automatic Bonus Progression (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression) and Scaling Magic Items (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/scaling-magic-items) to address the Magic Mart bit. I'm not sure how I could go about combining the two systems. And even if I could, a way to simplify them a bit so the campaign isn't as slowed down by tracking wealth by level and such.

Give each PC Automatic Bonus Progression and Scaling Magic Items (one Wonder or two Prizes), then cut all treasure values to one-quarter normal. If you're feeling really big on cutting out magic items, add another Prize and reduce treasure values to one-tenth normal. Allow ABP Weapon/Armor Attunement to stack with SMI weapon enhancements, applying ABP first; e.g. making a +5 attuned weapon into a +10 equivalent weapon would cost the price of a +10 weapon minus that of a +5 weapon, which is 200k-50k = 150k gp.


Meanwhile for less Caster Monopoly? I was tempted to go the "No Tier 1 & 2" class deal. But Tiers being subjective alone, that approach also seemed it would step on the toes of player depth completely. I also considered maybe E6 or E8, but there's too many fun things players have the potential to do at later levels that get a bit locked out by having a low level cap.

Ban full casters. Most full-caster lists have a 6th-casting equivalent: cleric/oracle -> warpriest, druid -> hunter, sorcerer/wizard -> eldritch scoundrel rogue or warlock vigilante, psychic -> psychic detective investigator, witch -> cabalist vigilante. Only the shaman does not have a corresponding 6th-caster.

An alternative is to disallow having access to spells of a level higher than those available to a 6th-caster of the same character level, i.e. up to spell level 1/2/3/4/5/6 from character levels 1/4/7/10/13/16. For example, a character with 3 levels of wizard would only have access to spells up to 2nd level. Characters could alternate two levels of full-caster with one level of noncaster to match the 6th-casting progression.


3. More uses for Gold
A lot of the time the use for Gold is very Skinner Box. Kill mosnters, get gold. Use gold for more items, get more gold. Now, the whole Magic item fixes above would address the "Use gold for more items" half of this. But it leads to then an even bigger problem, gold becomes almost useless. An easy way to address this would be "Run a Kingdom", but although I'm open to using those rules as an option is seems a bit easy and not always fitting for adventurers. But I'm not so sure as to what else I could do to allow for uses for gold that isn't simply relying on the more RP savvy players to make good "bribes" or "donations" for favors and such. But that alone would also make the use of gold a bit too shallow.

There's always going to be players who just want to kill monsters, and will just spend their gold to get better items to kill more monsters. No getting around that, no matter how you incentivize doing other stuff, and that's just fine. ABP and SMI will go a long way to make nonmagical items more expensive relative to player wealth, though.


4. Non-Generic NPCs
I'm not a big fan of NPC Classes, and if I can I'd usually prefer creating my own NPCs than taking stuff from the Monster Manual when possible (though I'll still use the Monster Manual as a base). But this can often cause some balance issues (one I'm hoping Gestalt PCs helps with). However the added diversity and complexity of NPCs as a whole could be a lot more grand, such as say an Elite Religious Order filled with Paladins, Clerics and Inquisitors specialised in the elimination of heretics.

I don't see what exactly you're asking for. If you mean that generating NPC stats for them to get killed in six rounds is a lot of work, you're darn right. 3.5 seems to have been written under the assumption that PCs would fight almost exclusively monsters, with enemy NPCs being nth-level warriors or long-term BBEGs. The Class Templates in the Simple Monster Creation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/simple-monster-creation) rules can be quite helpful, though.


5. No Alignment Based Mechanics
Basically when it comes to the age old debate of Alignment I sit very much in the camp that it does more harm than good. In short, it encourages players to act/think one dimension-ally and stereo-typically rather than apply any real or serious thought to matters. So by default I don't ever require players to pick an alignment and I get rid of all alignment restrictions on classes and such. However, this can become a little tricky when stuff like Smite Evil, Detect Evil, Unholy weapons etc. Now for some of these I'm tend to do with that Smite Evil = Smite, and Detect Evil = Detect Magic, but they function differently enough I don't want to apply one overarching mechanical fix. So any suggestions here would also be appreciated.

Rename Law, Chaos, Evil, and Good to Ordered, Freeform, Selfish, and Altruistic respectively. Recognizing the underlying definitions as they exist in Pathfinder is key to understanding how variably they can be implemented. A character can be chaotic evil without hurting a fly.

Otherwise, remove Alignment and the Paladin with it. Mix all the Outer Planes into The Outlands, with each Outer Plane or layer thereof becoming a region of an infinitely vast and varied expanse.


6. No Level or Ability damage/drain
Basically I just find level damage/drain to have two big issues of being too cruel to players, and it just slows down combat too much as people have to readjust their stats. Now, removing spells from players spell list for these effects seem simple enough, but I don't know what to replace it with when it's an NPC ability. Life drain or something?

Hm. Maybe replace ability damage's effects with penalties to any [attacks, damages, saves, checks, armor class, save DCs, caster levels] based on the stat? Halve all damage values (e.g. 5 str damage becomes -2), have it only last for the rest of the day (or reduce the penalty by 1 each day), have Constitution damage deal [HD*penalty] lethal damage along with the penalty, and give the players little pieces of paper with e.g. "-2 to Dexterity-based stuff" to remind them of the penalties. That cuts out the weird stuff like spell level access or feat prerequisites, and adding the caster level penalty makes mental stat damage matter gradually for casters as much as physical stat damage does for martials. Apply the same to ability drain, including the nonpermanency.

As for level drain, Pathfinder already made it simple and nonpermanent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Energy-Drain-and-Negative-Levels).

[Krazzman]

For more depth I would either pick gestalt or free Variant Multi Classing.
Traits are fiddly. It would be better to stay with the 2 at start and maybe some background bonus.
A good way to get less magic is hard to do. Using the 6th max spell level classes and automatic bonus progression helps.
More things to spend money on would be a great reason for seerows (I think it was him ) alternative weapon and armor system.
Another "big" way would be E6.

Hope this helps.

[Geddy2112]

Seconding the above. My 2cents

1. This is not really an issue in PF that I have seen-you have so many freaking archetypes, only a few that are pants on head weak. The rest cover the gambit of tropes, stereotypes, and whatever other unique combination you want to make. There is enough ability score relpacement/mix and match to make all sorts of things, if you are creative enough.

2. Scaling items helps with no magic mart, and allows players to not have to buy the obligatory ring of protection, amulet natural armor, headband/belt of stat X, etc. If you run a lower level campaign this won't be an issue. Even at low double digit levels, tier 1 casters can only break the game with actual intent to do so. Either end the campaign then, or inform your players that either all high level characters must be casters via gestalt or something.

3. I have never seen a problem with gold not having enough uses, and if you want to run a more social based game or a kingmaker campaign, there are plenty of rules to support that kind of thing. The bigger problem there is that most adventures want to adventure, not run a store. Make sure the group is on the same page.

4. Make your own NPC's with PC class levels, give them either NPC wealth(normal) or NPC wealth(heroic). Important people can get WBL. There are a ton of prebuilt NPC's online though, most with class ranks instead of just commoner, expert, warrior, etc.

5. Throwing alignment out is perfectly fine-clerics have to be within 1 step of their deity, but any good cleric should be philosophically similar to their deity anyways. If your deity is neutral good but you are lawful evil, then no spells simple as that. Now if your deity is a neutral good deity of art, music, beauty, etc, and you hold up the lawful good aspects that art has on society, community, etc. then you are fine. Leave the detect spells to only ping on aligned outsiders, and evil can hit undead. Only beings that are inherently created from law, chaos, good, or evil should ping. Another option is to not give a dang what your players put on their sheets, but treat them aligned accordingly. Are they wanton murderhobos? Then at higher levels angels will want their heads and demons might be more open to work with them. Do they build orphanages and defend them from hordes of undead? Then give them the armies of heaven as allies and the hordes of the abyss as enemies.

6. These are certainly not too cruel-neither are common mechanics, and even without magic it can more or less be healed. With magic, it is little more inconvenience than HP damage. You can place potions/scrolls as loot for enemies that do these things if the party cannot readily heal them. As for math on the fly, just have the players track cumulative negative's for ability score mods, or in the case of energy drain, it is a blanket -1 to everything and -5hp per level. It is no worse than keeping track of any other debuff or status effect.

[Psyren]

Ban full casters. Most full-caster lists have a 6th-casting equivalent: cleric/oracle -> warpriest, druid -> hunter, sorcerer/wizard -> eldritch scoundrel rogue or warlock vigilante, psychic -> psychic detective investigator, witch -> cabalist vigilante. Only the shaman does not have a corresponding 6th-caster.

Also (Staff) Magus and Occultist for Wizard, Hex Magus for Witch, Inquisitor for Cleric, Mesmerist for Psychic, Medium for Sorcerer and Oracle...

[Flickerdart]

The gist of yours issues can be solved by switching to E6 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Epic_6).

More depth: Your class levels are only a small part of your abilities, because characters stop gaining levels at level 6. Instead, they gain feats every 1000 EXP. Want to add a fightery twist to your wizard? Grab some weapon and armor proficiency feats. A more clerical rogue? Some devotion feats will get you there.

Less magic: Low level means fewer spell slots, and weaker spells. While the strength of magic users continues to scale (with metamagic feats, for instance) it's no longer quadratic. Lower level also means lower WBL which means smaller Christmas trees. E6 also amortizes level adjustment with lower point buy, so a lot of abilities that normally come from magic gear can be acquired from more exotic races.

More uses for gold: The item treadmill runs out as soon as your PCs get the gear that 6th level crafters are capable of crafting. But with lower magic, they will need this gold to pay for room and board, ship travel, etc. When facing powerful monsters, they may want to enlist the aid of mercenaries or buy spells from spellcasters.

Better NPCs: It's much easier to custom-build a 6th level guy than a 20th level guy, and it's also harder to make him overwhelmingly powerful or pitifully weak compared to the PCs.

Alignment mechanics: A lot of the problematic spells (like blasphemy and dispel evil) go away. You still have some detect evil and smite evil but it's a lot less bad.

Energy and ability drain: Lower level monsters means you see these less often, on both sides of the DM screen. Just don't use wights or allips and you're golden.

[Coidzor]

Less magic? Then you use an alternative to the HP system and/or create more ways to use the Heal skill to restore HP.

Also, bake in the expected boring bonuses into PC progression, possibly to a greater extent than the PF optional rules variant.

Up the availability of alchemical items and nix any vestiges of the requirement to be a caster to make them that might be lingering here or there.

Allow for the ability for more characters to be ranged and melee capable, by altering the baseline feat pre-requisites to the feats that allow each fighting style and/or giving an additional feat progression just for this purpose.

Possibly add a second additional feat progression just for those "do nifty things that you'd ordinarily just use magic for" feats and/or make some of them baseline capabilities or things people with the prerequisite ranks in the skills can do without needing to spend a feat.

[Malimar]

6. No Level or Ability damage/drain
Basically I just find level damage/drain to have two big issues of being too cruel to players, and it just slows down combat too much as people have to readjust their stats. Now, removing spells from players spell list for these effects seem simple enough, but I don't know what to replace it with when it's an NPC ability. Life drain or something?

A thing I didn't realize at first about energy drain that make it much less terrible to deal with: A "negative level" is just -5 hp, -1 to most rolls, -1 caster level (and other level-based effects). You don't actually have to "readjust your stats".

In 3.5, if you failed a save after 24 hours have passed, then you would have to readjust your stats, unless you got to it with a lesser restoration (I didn't realize at first that lesser restoration can restore levels lost in this way, too, so even if you fail the save, readjusting stats is not necessarily necessary). Pathfinder already simplified negative levels by a lot, replacing level loss with permanent negative levels.

THAT SAID, early on in my DMing career I did houserule energy drain away (because I hadn't yet decided that the above things made houseruling it away more or less unnecessary). I replaced it with an aging effect (because I'm old school and think doing away with aging effects was unfortunate, it's such a classic fantasy trope). Each application of energy drain increased the character's age by 3d10 years (my reasoning for this specific amount can be found here (http://luduscarcerum.blogspot.com/2011/04/alternatives-for-negative-levels.html)).

That house rule never actually saw play (I rethought it and got rid of it before anybody encountered energy draining monsters), but in theory it should work out okay.

[Beheld]

The gist of yours issues can be solved by switching to E6 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Epic_6).

But I want to have level 20 written on my character sheet when I go out and rescue the caravan from the goblinsbigger goblins with more HP that do more damage!

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ok, there seems to be some general confusion in regards what I'm asking about.

1. Giving player characters more depth.
I get that Archetypes do help with this, but at the end of the day they just move you from one "Archetype" to another. Instead of being "The Fighter" you are "The Two Weapon Fighter". Instead of being "The Bard" you're "The Bard with a Fan".

Better than before, but still bit one dimensional. While Gestalt you've got more a hybrid of abilities, indicating a more diverse and varied experience, like most people. And Multi-Classing doesn't really address this because it starts to turn more meta with "2 Level Dips" for big boons, or either class just doesn't get that fleshed out which arguably is even worse than at least something being fleshed out.

Though, I'm a bit loss in why everyone seems opposed to more traits. They're small yes, but they do help reflect the characters backstory. So wouldn't something small like traits help with fleshing out a history without unbalancing the game?

2. Less Magic
I'd rather avoid E6, because it does seriously restrict what you are able to throw at your players. However, just banning Tier 1's and 2's has the issue of no one's really a Caster, at least as a big focus (do to Gestalt) but it's half the job of one class, making it rather minor.

That being said, it could be with this I'm pushing for an impossible answer, so I might have to settle for remove Tier 1's and 2's.


Give each PC Automatic Bonus Progression and Scaling Magic Items (one Wonder or two Prizes), then cut all treasure values to one-quarter normal. If you're feeling really big on cutting out magic items, add another Prize and reduce treasure values to one-tenth normal. Allow ABP Weapon/Armor Attunement to stack with SMI weapon enhancements, applying ABP first; e.g. making a +5 attuned weapon into a +10 equivalent weapon would cost the price of a +10 weapon minus that of a +5 weapon, which is 200k-50k = 150k gp.

This though is an outright perfect combination of the two Item systems. Thanks for this, solves the Magic Mart issue completely. :)

3. More uses for Gold
Ok, everyone seemed to immediately assume that gold not going to items 'Had' to go towards running a kingdom. Which honestly shows part of the problem I was having with gold to begin with.

Using the Gold for more creative means, RP uses, bribes etc don't tend to be touched much in tabletop. Basically I was asking for more ideas on creative uses of gold.

4. Non-Generic NPCs
This one I admit I got a bit carried away and on what I wanted to do I forget to ask the question really.

If you mean that generating NPC stats for them to get killed in six rounds is a lot of work, you're darn right. 3.5 seems to have been written under the assumption that PCs would fight almost exclusively monsters, with enemy NPCs being nth-level warriors or long-term BBEGs. The Class Templates in the Simple Monster Creation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/simple-monster-creation) rules can be quite helpful, though.

Thankfully though, this answered the question almost perfectly anyways. Good ways, systems to generate non-monster NPCs. It seems a bit... long, but from one skim through it, it looks more like I just need to reference a lot of tables for base effects which could help speed things up.

5. No Alignment Based Mechanics
The whole reason I want to remove alignment is to avoid generalising characters into certain groups. But rather seeing characters on a case by case basis. So, I'm not really asking to make a new alignment system. I'm asking how to handle abilities that relate to alignment (smite, protection etc.), when alignment is gone.

6. No Level or Ability damage/drain
It does seem that Pathfinder simplified these more than I thought. Though my main concern here now is a lot of busy work of constantly applying and remembering the modifiers mid-combat. Still, if I were to now remove these over that I should also be removing stuff like Summoning which would hurt a lot. So thanks for this clarification. :)

[EldritchWeaver]

Ok, there seems to be some general confusion in regards what I'm asking about.

1. Giving player characters more depth.
I get that Archetypes do help with this, but at the end of the day they just move you from one "Archetype" to another. Instead of being "The Fighter" you are "The Two Weapon Fighter". Instead of being "The Bard" you're "The Bard with a Fan".

Better than before, but still bit one dimensional. While Gestalt you've got more a hybrid of abilities, indicating a more diverse and varied experience, like most people. And Multi-Classing doesn't really address this because it starts to turn more meta with "2 Level Dips" for big boons, or either class just doesn't get that fleshed out which arguably is even worse than at least something being fleshed out.

Though, I'm a bit loss in why everyone seems opposed to more traits. They're small yes, but they do help reflect the characters backstory. So wouldn't something small like traits help with fleshing out a history without unbalancing the game?

Maybe instead using classes at all, you could employ a class-less system like Eclipse: The Codex Persona (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/51255/Eclipse-The-Codex-Persona-Shareware). On the creator's website there are Pathfinder conversions for the existing classes.

[Krazzman]

Ok, there seems to be some general confusion in regards what I'm asking about.

1. Giving player characters more depth.
I get that Archetypes do help with this, but at the end of the day they just move you from one "Archetype" to another. Instead of being "The Fighter" you are "The Two Weapon Fighter". Instead of being "The Bard" you're "The Bard with a Fan".

Better than before, but still bit one dimensional. While Gestalt you've got more a hybrid of abilities, indicating a more diverse and varied experience, like most people. And Multi-Classing doesn't really address this because it starts to turn more meta with "2 Level Dips" for big boons, or either class just doesn't get that fleshed out which arguably is even worse than at least something being fleshed out.

Though, I'm a bit loss in why everyone seems opposed to more traits. They're small yes, but they do help reflect the characters backstory. So wouldn't something small like traits help with fleshing out a history without unbalancing the game?

Not against it but thinking maybe there are better things to do than just throw more traits at it. As it has been said it is quite often just a "boring" +1 on [random check]. Hence why I said instead of more than the 2 traits: give them an additional or stronger or custom (whatever) backstory "trait".


2. Less Magic
I'd rather avoid E6, because it does seriously restrict what you are able to throw at your players. However, just banning Tier 1's and 2's has the issue of no one's really a Caster, at least as a big focus (do to Gestalt) but it's half the job of one class, making it rather minor.

That being said, it could be with this I'm pushing for an impossible answer, so I might have to settle for remove Tier 1's and 2's.



This though is an outright perfect combination of the two Item systems. Thanks for this, solves the Magic Mart issue completely. :)

Yeah. I tried E6 too but it was, in places, too restricting. There were a few problems with crafting and other magic items.


3. More uses for Gold
Ok, everyone seemed to immediately assume that gold not going to items 'Had' to go towards running a kingdom. Which honestly shows part of the problem I was having with gold to begin with.

Using the Gold for more creative means, RP uses, bribes etc don't tend to be touched much in tabletop. Basically I was asking for more ideas on creative uses of gold.

I found the thread I was talking about in my first answer: Seerow's Revised Weapons and Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?202722-D-amp-D3-5-Weapons-Upgrades-and-More) I implemented it together with the E6 in a game. Worked like a charm, my player had 4 Exotic weapons pretty soon. The really nice thing is the whole custom part, further being able to flesh out their characters appearance with custom armor and weapons.



5. No Alignment Based Mechanics
The whole reason I want to remove alignment is to avoid generalising characters into certain groups. But rather seeing characters on a case by case basis. So, I'm not really asking to make a new alignment system. I'm asking how to handle abilities that relate to alignment (smite, protection etc.), when alignment is gone.

I would probably handle it like this:
Smite: Works on all Undead and Demonic/Devilish/??? outsiders and Aberrations. Have a trait for allowing smiting dragons(or something similar).
Protection from X: Would just call it a Protection from Foes and it works basically against everything that goes with a malicious intend towards the caster.
Blaspheme and such spells that deal damage to certain alignments should work on anyone not following the faith?


EDIT:
For the NPC's and such... have you looked at the NPC Codex? I personally don't have it but it might be helpful?

[Psyren]

I'd rather avoid E6, because it does seriously restrict what you are able to throw at your players.

Could someone go dig up that "E6 vs. Balor" thread? :smallbiggrin:


However, just banning Tier 1's and 2's has the issue of no one's really a Caster, at least as a big focus (do to Gestalt) but it's half the job of one class, making it rather minor.

That being said, it could be with this I'm pushing for an impossible answer, so I might have to settle for remove Tier 1's and 2's.

1) Keep in mind that you only have to ban T1s and T2s if your players are compelled to play them to the hilt every time. People roll Wizards, Clerics and Druids and fail/die anyway, constantly. A T1 and especially a T2 are only as good as their spell selection and the savvy of the person playing them. For example, Wizards have two extremes - the Tippy-style campaign-smasher on one end, and the one that prepares Read Magic in every slot (when they remember to prepare at all) on the other. Most real players fall somewhere in between these two extremes and can be challenged.

2) If your players can't play T1s and T2s without invalidating everyone else, then yes, banning is your best recourse - in which case I'll point you back to Anchovies' advice whereby we came up with T3 substitutes for all the major T1 and T2 casters. (All the flavor, half the calories!)



4. Non-Generic NPCs
This one I admit I got a bit carried away and on what I wanted to do I forget to ask the question really.


Thankfully though, this answered the question almost perfectly anyways. Good ways, systems to generate non-monster NPCs. It seems a bit... long, but from one skim through it, it looks more like I just need to reference a lot of tables for base effects which could help speed things up.

I'll also point out that Paizo has NPC Codex and the upcoming Villain Codex, which are basically books crammed full of classed statblocks. They're designed so that you can just grab a random NPC (like the Bandit Leader, Guard-Captain, or the reclusive Forest Warden) when needed. Or you can use them as a starting point to build your villain and simply level them up a bit and tweak their stats and gear to make them more challenging.

Even if you don't have the book, all of the NPC Codex statblocks are available free online (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/npcCodex/core/index.html), and likely the same will be true of Villain Codex as it is part of the same (core) product line.



5. No Alignment Based Mechanics
The whole reason I want to remove alignment is to avoid generalising characters into certain groups. But rather seeing characters on a case by case basis. So, I'm not really asking to make a new alignment system. I'm asking how to handle abilities that relate to alignment (smite, protection etc.), when alignment is gone.

Have you read Removing Alignment (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/unchained/gameplay/removingAlignment.html) from Pathfinder Unchained? In particular the "Creatures, Spells and Effects" subsection.

[Extra Anchovies]

Though, I'm a bit loss in why everyone seems opposed to more traits. They're small yes, but they do help reflect the characters backstory. So wouldn't something small like traits help with fleshing out a history without unbalancing the game?

Extra traits provide diminishing returns; at a certain point a character will run out of traits they want for their build and start stacking on +numbers feats (e.g. +2 Initiative, +1 to one type of save, etc). I do think allowing two traits, plus one with a flaw, plus one more if you fit all of your traits into your backstory, would be a good place to set it. But if I were given five or six traits, I'd be at a loss regarding what to spend them on.


This though is an outright perfect combination of the two Item systems. Thanks for this, solves the Magic Mart issue completely. :)

Glad I could help! Shopping trips tend to be my least favorite part of adventuring, because they're tedious and immersion-breaking. Cutting down on how much coin's flying about - and handing out some neat unique items - makes things a lot more interesting.


Ok, everyone seemed to immediately assume that gold not going to items 'Had' to go towards running a kingdom. Which honestly shows part of the problem I was having with gold to begin with.

Using the Gold for more creative means, RP uses, bribes etc don't tend to be touched much in tabletop. Basically I was asking for more ideas on creative uses of gold.

Well, for the PCs to spend gold on something other than equipment, they kinda need something worth investing gold in. A small stronghold, a business or guild hall in a city, that sort of thing. Perhaps characters could, given sufficient wealth, become financial supporters of some organization or another, giving them a network of useful contacts.


Thankfully though, this answered the question almost perfectly anyways. Good ways, systems to generate non-monster NPCs. It seems a bit... long, but from one skim through it, it looks more like I just need to reference a lot of tables for base effects which could help speed things up.

Yeah, Simple Monster Creation is definitely a large chunk of rules, but I've found it fits into play rather nicely. It also cuts down on monster stat block sizes compared to the stuff in the Bestiaries, which can be nice if you like to print things out and/or keep detailed notes.


The whole reason I want to remove alignment is to avoid generalising characters into certain groups. But rather seeing characters on a case by case basis. So, I'm not really asking to make a new alignment system. I'm asking how to handle abilities that relate to alignment (smite, protection etc.), when alignment is gone.

I've thought up a non-alignment Smite before; here's a link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?497108-What-does-quot-Paladin-quot-mean-to-you&p=21090586&viewfull=1#post21090586) to me hashing out it, cuz it's a bit of a mouthful.