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Skjaldbakka
2007-07-07, 11:38 PM
If I give everyone Quickdraw for free, does that necessarily increase the powerlevel of the party? If I also allow sheathing weapons to be a free action, does that increase the power level of the party?

Dhavaer
2007-07-07, 11:45 PM
Free Quickdraw won't be that much of a boost until level 6, when the full BAB classes will get their second attack. Free-action sheathing will mean you can swap from bow to melee weapon without dropping the bow, which makes combined arms tactics more effective, but not by a whole lot.

storybookknight
2007-07-07, 11:47 PM
Not a huge one, no. Quickdraw isn't a hugely necessary feat for anybody except thrown weapon builds.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-08, 12:35 AM
Most players "Quick Draw" scrolls from safely stowed away cases, potions from non-existent potion belts, and wands... where do they hide those wands?

Attilargh
2007-07-08, 01:35 AM
where do they hide those wands?
My favourite is the Wand Bracer from Dungeonscape.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-08, 01:55 AM
My favourite is the Wand Bracer from Dungeonscape.

That has Sorcelator written all over it.

Rachel Lorelei
2007-07-08, 01:56 AM
Most players "Quick Draw" scrolls from safely stowed away cases, potions from non-existent potion belts, and wands... where do they hide those wands?

In their pants.

What? That's where one's Inventory is.

Corolinth
2007-07-08, 01:57 AM
It balances out pretty well if you also remember to give all of the NPCs the Quick Draw feat for free.

Kizara
2007-07-08, 02:04 AM
Not a huge deal, as most players just walk around with their weapon's out in any kind of dangerous place anyways.

Quick-seething is a bit illogical and it makes it so people can do things like switch from bow to sword-and-shield in no time at all.

Balance wise, not a huge impact beyond saving a feat for some builds. I say suspension of disbelief/sense wise its more than a bit silly though.

Attilargh
2007-07-08, 02:12 AM
In their pants.

What? That's where one's Inventory is.
You just have to beware of patches of quicksand.

Cookie for the one who gets the reference.

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-07-08, 05:35 AM
Wouldn't this also greatly help (low level)druids and clerics who like to run around with shields and weapons but need to have a free hand to cast spells?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-08, 05:43 AM
Do you plan on extending it to wands and scrolls also?

It seems reasonable that you can Quick Draw such items if they are stored appropriately.

Sheathing weapons would benefit the cleric running around with a heavy shield, but other than that it is not much of an issue balance wise.


In their pants.

What? That's where one's Inventory is.

Inventory or collected Junk?

Kurald Galain
2007-07-08, 06:08 AM
Wouldn't this also greatly help (low level)druids and clerics who like to run around with shields and weapons but need to have a free hand to cast spells?

If that bothers you, have the cleric's deity forbid it. You're a priest of the God of Courage - you're not supposed to hide behind some friggin' shield!

Winterwind
2007-07-08, 06:51 AM
You just have to beware of patches of quicksand.

Cookie for the one who gets the reference.Monkey Island? (part 3, I believe?)

Attilargh
2007-07-08, 07:11 AM
Monkey Island? (part 3, I believe?)
Look, a three-headed monkey! *flees witht he cookies*

Solo
2007-07-08, 07:12 AM
Most players "Quick Draw" scrolls from safely stowed away cases, potions from non-existent potion belts, and wands... where do they hide those wands?

Well, it involves a lot of lubricant....

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-07-08, 08:13 AM
If that bothers you, have the cleric's deity forbid it. You're a priest of the God of Courage - you're not supposed to hide behind some friggin' shield!
Methinks the Dogma of the Faith is confusing Being Courageous with Being Suicidal. :smalltongue:

Quietus
2007-07-08, 12:35 PM
Inventory or collected Junk?

Well, most likely Junk. Who DOESN'T keep their junk in their pants?

Swooper
2007-07-08, 12:57 PM
Well, most likely Junk. Who DOESN'T keep their junk in their pants?
I believe the term is 'exhibitionists.':smalltongue:

Yechezkiel
2007-07-08, 01:49 PM
GETTING INTO AND OUT OF ARMOR (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/armor.html)

I wanted to point out the Don Hastily action for shields (being n/a as in, not possible), and the fact that it's only a move action to normal equip one.

Delaney Gale
2007-07-08, 02:53 PM
Unless you expect them to take feats in Quickdraw progressions (i.e. Flick of the Wrist), it shouldn't be a problem. However, provided they're intelligent enough to carry a spare weapon, it would make using disarming or grappling tactics a lot more difficult.

Corolinth
2007-07-08, 03:14 PM
I think the balance issue for druids and clerics involves them sheathing their weapon as a free action, not their shield. I know if I had the choice for which to drop to free up a hand to cast spells, I'd put away the weapon rather than the AC bonus.

JellyPooga
2007-07-08, 03:18 PM
I would recommend against it myself

It craps on those characters who would have taken it anyway: Master Throwers, Multiple Weapon Combo users and people who want to look flash, amongst others...it's a slight advantage they no longer have over others. Also, it's a prerequisite for at least one feat (and a pretty good one at that), so a slight balance thing might occur in relation to that...

If you're going to go down the "what if everyone had this feat" road, consider the implications of applting other feats universally...Although not all feats are similarly powered, they're not terribly far off. If you start dishing them out for free, you may well get bitten in the a*** when your attention is elsewhere.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-07-08, 04:06 PM
I would recommend against it myself

It craps on those characters who would have taken it anyway: Master Throwers, Multiple Weapon Combo users and people who want to look flash, amongst others...it's a slight advantage they no longer have over others. Also, it's a prerequisite for at least one feat (and a pretty good one at that), so a slight balance thing might occur in relation to that...

If you're going to go down the "what if everyone had this feat" road, consider the implications of applting other feats universally...Although not all feats are similarly powered, they're not terribly far off. If you start dishing them out for free, you may well get bitten in the a*** when your attention is elsewhere.
How does it crap on those characters to give them a feat they otherwise would have taken as a bonus feat? Drawing quickly wasn't their advantage, it was being able to make use of drawing quickly.

Sheathing should be a free action if drawing is, to save players the annoyance of having to constantly drop weapons.

I think this is an alright balance, because it starts helping characters more as they become less useful overall (melee characters make good use of it more at level 6, around when casters get haste and slow.)

ArmorArmadillo
2007-07-08, 04:07 PM
In their pants.

What? That's where one's Inventory is.

The power of electricity...in your pants.:smallbiggrin:

Kan8
2007-07-08, 07:31 PM
You would need to be extremly careful if you did decide to let your players do this, as although it would definetly give them more chances of surviving at the lower levels, it also can allow them the ability to shred through a main plot-related encounter in just a few rounds. For example, the main villain of the story has just revealed himself, and the PC's are going to fight him. In the first round of actual combat, the 16th level Barbarian of the party throws 4 javelins of Greater Lightning at your villain that you've been planning for one heck of a long time...Even if, say, 2 of them hit, that's still a good 20d6 damage, and because that feat was free, said Barbarian took a different one, and never would've picked Quick Draw in the first place, leaving your master-villain to go down as easy as the common Kobold. However you could make every single thing the PC's encouter have this feat as well to attempt to even the playing field.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-08, 09:39 PM
Yeah, OK. I can shred your BBEG without quickdraw.

16'th level? Ok, you take (in 2 hits) 192+4d10+4+8d6+60, or 306.

30 str (+6 item, 20 base, +4 levels) Oh yeah, forgot rage.
+1 flaming frost glaive.

Leap attack, power attack, heedless charge, shock trooper. If you like, I can make it a thrikreen, for more madness.

Come to think of it, how the **** do we have weapons with +9d6 electric damage??!?!?! That's better than the EPIC lightning blast ability!

Oh, never mind, I see. So the barbarian just used 12000 gp worth of 1 use items, and the BBEG gets a DC 14 ref save for 1/2. Also, all the bolts automatically hit, though I doubt the BBEG fails any saves.

nerulean
2007-07-09, 05:18 AM
Exactly why are you planning to give it to them? Is it to avoid having to stop and spend an action at the beginning of combat while everyone gets out their wands/swords/whatever, or is it to allow more adaptability in the middle of combat? If it's the former, you could just let them always assume they have the right weapon to hand.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-09, 09:20 AM
Well, most likely Junk. Who DOESN'T keep their junk in their pants?

Some have their Junk in the Trunk.

I am not sure what the impact of tht would be on Quick Draw though.

Matthew
2007-07-09, 09:30 PM
GETTING INTO AND OUT OF ARMOR (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/armor.html)

I wanted to point out the Don Hastily action for shields (being n/a as in, not possible), and the fact that it's only a move action to normal equip one.
Hmmn. I think the Cleric/Shield stuff is along the lines of - Sheath Weapon, Cast Spell, Draw Weapon. I think that the above would only matter if the Cleric was using two Shields...

Yechezkiel
2007-07-09, 09:59 PM
Hmmn. I think the Cleric/Shield stuff is along the lines of - Sheath Weapon, Cast Spell, Draw Weapon. I think that the above would only matter if the Cleric was using two Shields...

You can cast spells with S components while using up to a light shield (and a weapon in your mainhand), no?

"Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

Shield, Heavy, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can’t use your shield hand for anything else."

Reading it now I can't remember if that's a generally accepted interpretation or just my groups'.

Matthew
2007-07-09, 10:05 PM
Until recently, the FAQ claimed that you couldn't. Now the FAQ gives two contradictory rulings. Regardless, what people appear to be discussing is the Weapon + Shield (any type).

LotharBot
2007-07-10, 03:04 PM
Well, most likely Junk. Who DOESN'T keep their junk in their pants?

Some people put their junk in a box.

lukelightning
2007-07-10, 03:08 PM
Disarm and sunder would be nerfed.