"You're not an anime connoisseur if you haven't seen ..." (also, manga)

[danzibr]

I'm not sure the best way to phrase this, but basically, what are the must-see anime? Maybe no the best with regards to quality of art of plot, but the most ground-breaking?

For example, I took a class once called Radical Changes Since the 19?0's, and we watched an old black and white film. The action was kind of cheesy, and plot wasn't great, but it was an influential film because it was (one of?) the first films which featured the protagonist as a bad dude.

I'm not asking for favorites, not any genre in particular, and not most popular, and not even most influential... or maybe I am asking most influential, though in my mind there's a slight distinction there.

Oh, and likewise for manga.

[Eldan]

Evangelion. Everyone since has copied it.
Also, Akira.

[GloatingSwine]

There's a problem with asking "what's the most influential" in that a lot of things that look "influential" are themselves influenced by earlier works, some of which we may not be aware of. (Especially when there are cross-genre influences from genres which haven't had a lot of exposure, like sports manga).

[Winter_Wolf]

I liked Akira, I used to own a copy on VHS, but I think it's oversold as greatness. It's okay, and I'd watch it again, but it's really just okay.
How influential it really is, is going to be problematic if you're not also going to spend a fair bit of time studying modern history of Japan. There's enough political subtext that the forum rules would kick in right away.

The short answer to the OP title question, in all seriousness: you're never a connoisseur of anime/manga unless you've seen all the stuff the person you're talking to has seen AND you have the same opinions on what you've seen. Or maybe I've just run into an unusual number of rabid anime nerds.

[Red Fel]

The short answer to the OP title question, in all seriousness: you're never a connoisseur of anime/manga unless you've seen all the stuff the person you're talking to has seen AND you have the same opinions on what you've seen. Or maybe I've just run into an unusual number of rabid anime nerds.

That. That said, expanding it further, it also depends on the audience. For example, much of the West's reception (or, more accurately, America's) came from Cartoon Network's anime blocks, one in the afternoon (featuring shows like Voltron, Ronin Warriors, and Sailor Moon) and one late at night (featuring Cowboy Bebop and such). So for many people, these are considered formative classics. But if you speak to, say, a Japanese audience, a show like Samurai Troopers (that's Ronin Warriors in its native habitat, by the way) may not be nearly as formative or iconic as Sailor Moon.

So, speaking from that angle, here are a few observations of my own. I won't even mention Akira and NGE, because they're covered.
Ghost in the Shell: From a storytelling and genre standpoint, this is one of the earliest anime films that explored the nature of humanity. Sure, you also had films like Patlabor and Appleseed, but this one is widely regarded as a truly iconic film exploring the question of What is Human?
Almost anything by Studio Ghibli: Miyazaki defined a genre, really - films that were heartfelt, wondrous, strange, and fascinating. My Neighbor Totoro is held out as one of the iconic choices, as is Kiki's Delivery Service; I have a personal fondness for ones like Porco Rosso, that had more bittersweet themes to them.
Fist of the North Star: This is basically the film, and series, that defined the genre of ultraviolence. The whole thing screamed 80s - the loud music, the post-apocalyptic punks, the hyper-masculine yet still sensitive protagonist. Every badass protagonist owes something to Kenshiro.
Sailor Moon: Yes, I'm putting this in here. The shoujo genre is frequently misunderstood, and this is an iconic example of a series that breaks the usual genre confines, by adding personal tragedy, superheroism, and even death; above all else, it is a love story, albeit a frequently frustrating one.
Ranma 1/2: Although Takahashi's work is frequently derided for its repetitive nature (pretty much all of her romances run on the exact same plot line), this is really a stand-out, early example of the martial arts comedy. It cheerfully subverts the martial arts genre with such absurd concepts as martial arts rhythm gymnastics, martial arts eating, and other absurd ideas. The story drags out for tedious lengths, but the characters and style have inspired countless series.
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: They're not all old. TTGL may not have inspired a lot of things, being relatively recent, but it embodied the shounen genre in its fullest. The basic premise of shounen, long-established, is that a naturally gifted protagonist does unbelievable things, conquers rivals and earns friends. TTGL took that concept and embraced it to its utmost, giving its protagonist the power of literal impossibility, turning both the comedy and the tragedy up to 11. This is a series that is brilliantly written and fantastic, and best of all - unlike many other shounen series - it knew when to end.
Note that several of these (Sailor Moon, Ranma 1/2, Fist of the North Star) are adaptations of manga. Totally understandable, and worth reading the manga as well. But for many people, myself included, the earliest exposure was the screen, not the page.

[Illieas]

I will point out three that people haven't mentioned.

Gundam is required. it is the ur example of mecha anime genre. it is endlessly copied and set the foundations that make neo genesis evangelion and gurren lagan work as they are.

Dragon ball series is also required. it is the shonen example everyone uses. it is also THE anime that crossed borders and made what anime is today.

pokemon. it's impact on the industry is also vast and far reaching. I think at this point anyone 30- and below in the united states can identify Pikachu or know if not able to sing the pokemon theme song.

[Lethologica]

Astro Boy - influenced everything that came after
Legend of the Galactic Heroes - influenced everything in space that came after
Cowboy Bebop - defines "anime is more than kids' cartoons" for a generation of American fans
Slam Dunk, Captain Tsubasa - defining sports anime and manga

[Marlowe]

Nothing is REQUIRED. I have never seen DBZ or Pokemon. Never seen any reason why I should. I got into anime only after being well past the Shonen demographic.

If you can find the original SDF Macross, that's a very good, very accessible show. I'd recommend a Gundam show; but WHICH ONE?

I happen to very much enjoy Slayers. In fact, I think it's about the only Shonen series I do watch. Of course, this is a site devoted to D&D. Slayers is inspired by fantasy roleplaying. I'm sure someone's going to bring it up eventually.

If you do watch Sailor Moon; don't try to watch too many episodes at once.

[Red Fel]

I'd recommend a Gundam show; but WHICH ONE?

That's actually a really good question. I remember back in the Snowbluff & Co. Talk Anime thread, we had a whole discussion about this.

My opinion? Gundam Wing is a reasonably popular stand-alone option that explores the standard Gundam tropes (war, identity, etc.) while still showcasing awesome robots. G Gundam is incredibly fun, but also completely absurd, and really stands apart from the franchise as a result. Both are comfortably self-contained and require little knowledge outside of their respective series. Otherwise, go original - the classic story of Amuro Ray and his rivalry with Char Aznable is truly iconic, and the imagery of Char manages to pervade anime irrespective of genre. That rivalry is one of the classic and truly original illustrations of "young, brash hero with natural talent faces off against skilled, trained veteran with complex motivations," which is a trope you'll find, well, everywhere.


I happen to very much enjoy Slayers. In fact, I think it's about the only Shonen series I do watch. Of course, this is a site devoted to D&D. Slayers is inspired by fantasy roleplaying. I'm sure someone's going to bring it up eventually.

That, and Record of Lodoss War, which is pretty much just a D&D campaign log. But Slayers also has the distinction of being one of the earliest examples of a subversion. High fantasy was serious, and epic, and glorious - see Lodoss War as a perfect illustration. Slayers was... not. Oh, it was high fantasy, and it was awesome, but it was uniquely silly and frequently poked fun at itself. In many ways, subversive series that have come since owe a lot to Slayers. That's not to say it was alone in that regard - Dragon Half is another fun deconstruction of fantasy tropes - but it is iconic.

[VariSami]

FIST! OF! THE! NORTH! STAR! (As mentioned by Red Fel.)

On a more serious note, I suppose it often depends on the genre you are working with and what sorts of revolutions you prioritise. Fist of the North Star is a really big trend-setter which codified many tropes one can see in later action-oriented anime. Similarly, JoJo's BIzarre Adventure has had such a widespread influence on Japanese pop-culture that it is being referenced by a lot of other anime, often in relatively discreet ways which are only obvious to those who understand them and might seem off to everyone else. (Case in point: Certain posing scenes with a distinctive drawing style in No Game No Life.)

Some relatively recent and not necessarily obvious cases would be Puella Magi Madoka Magica which offers a distinct approach to non-obvious genres and the works of Ufotable (e.g. Fate/Zero). In the case of the latter, I think they exemplify a trend which is only taking form currently. People tend to refer to Fate/Unlimited Blade Works as 'Unlimited Budget Works', for example, due to its appearance of high production values. However, it seems Ufotable tends to work with more or less standard budgets despite producing stunning visuals, and this is in part due to their innovative use of CG for backgrounds and an emphasis on a distinct finish. Since the use of CGI is a clear trend and Ufotable is doing it in a visually appealing manner, I would include their works as a recent example.

Just to list some other random classics, the influence or distinction of which is generally recognised: Serial Experiments Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Sailor Moon, Hunter x Hunter, Akira, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Monster, Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Baccano, and... Naruto. I could probably come up with more but mostly, I wanted to repeat some actually good ones named above but also remind us that being influential does not necessarily mean being great (or vice versa; some of my favourites like Gintama would hardly qualify).

[Berserk Mecha]

As far as influential anime goes, there's the Gainax trinity (my personal term) of Aim for the Top Gunbuster, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Those three shows perfectly epitomize the construction, deconstruction, and reconstruction of super robot anime.

Gunbuster is essentially a love letter to super robot anime that celebrates everything that otaku at the time were crazy about. It features spunky teenage robot pilots trying to work together while fighting giant space monsters. Also, it was the anime that popularized animated boobs bouncing.

Evangelion is a harsh deconstruction of super robot anime. It takes tropes found in Gunbuster and similar works and tears them down. The premises looks at exactly what kind of madman would let his teenage child pilot a dangerous giant robot and what would happen to fourteen year old children if you put them in the hazardous situation of fighting monsters. This is also the anime that popularized Abrahamic religious iconography in anime to add to its mystique. (And if you could not tell by my forum name, yes, I am a big Eva fan.)

After virtually every other anime studio copied the tone and aesthetic of Evangelion, Gainax created Gurren Lagann as a reconstruction of the tropes that they fell in love with in the first place. Gurren Lagann is a beautiful piece of work made by people who were well aware of the tropes that they were working with and knew exactly how to use them to their fullest extent.

In terms of non-Gainax works, the original Mobile Suit Gundam is also one of the most influential anime in the mecha genre. It was the first to depict the giant robots as pragmatic tools of war as opposed to the more superhero-like robots of the anime that came before it. I'd go with the compilation movies if you intend to watch this one, as they are essentially the show with the fat trimmed off. Sunrise has since recycled a lot of Gundam aesthetics in their shows that came after, like Code Geass. Hell, Gundam anime is still being made today, with the new season of Iron-Blooded Orphans set to air this October.

As far as Miyazaki's and Ghibli's body of work is concerned, well, they are certainly worth watching and they are considered 'connoisseur' films by animation buffs for a reason. However, I really cannot say that they are influential on any anime outside of other Ghibli movies. People in Japan tend to see Ghibli films as a unique thing disconnected with other anime. I suppose you could say that Mamoru Hosoda makes similar films, but I think that is stretching it. Still worth watching, though.

[Winter_Wolf]

I gotta add about Rumiko Takahashi, the reason she's still relevant ( or was, if she's retired by now) is because of sticking to the formula, as it were. It's time-tested after all. her target demographic is a narrow age band, and necessity dictates "starting over fresh " every once in a while because let's face it, jumping into the middle of a long running series with even marginal continuity is suboptimal. There's some overlap between say Ranma and Inuyasha in terms of story and age group, but I was firmly leaving/left the target group when Inuyasha came along. Runic Theater anthologies worked well because it allowed Takahashi to try some other things, but like I mentioned, she had long term success because she's got her business model down.

[Kato]

Evangelion. Everyone since has copied it.
Also, Akira.

Never saw Akira. No, honestly. I guess from osmosis I know what happens but I never saw it and frankly I don't really feel the need.


That said... as many people aluded, nothing is required no matter what people will tell you. There are more and less popular, better and worse shows. Maybe you won't get the idea behind a certain show if you haven't seen another, i.e. how Fairy Tail insists on the power of Friendship or what is weird about PMMM if you never saw Sailor Moon or another Magical Girl story.

But NOTHING is required to enjoy anime, and the same goes for other genres. It can help you enjoy other works if you know prototypical examples but a good show can be enjoyed with no foreknowledge of Dragonball, Gundam, Rumiko Takahashi's works, anything be Studio Ghibli etc.


Watch what seems interesting to you, and if someone tells you "you must watch XY" take it with a grain of salt.

[DoctorFaust]

Besides the stuff that's been mentioned already (and to expand on one), I would probably say Black Jack, Astro Boy, and Princess Knight. Black Jack is still popular, and there are adaptations of it and its spin-offs being made to this day. Princess Knight was essentially the prototype of the magical girl genre, and it also laid the foundation for things like Rose of Versaille and Revolutionary Girl Utena. And Astro Boy is, well, Astro Boy. It was the first popular animated work that really used what we would consider the "anime" style, it was the first anime to be broadcast overseas, and is either the first or second ever full-length animated series to be broadcast in Japan with something like 40% of the Japanese population watching it at the height of its popularity.

Though you could probably make the case for just about any of Osamu Tezuka's original works, or Go Nagai's for that matter.

[Illieas]

Nothing is REQUIRED. I have never seen DBZ or Pokemon. Never seen any reason why I should. I got into anime only after being well past the Shonen demographic.

If you can find the original SDF Macross, that's a very good, very accessible show. I'd recommend a Gundam show; but WHICH ONE?

I happen to very much enjoy Slayers. In fact, I think it's about the only Shonen series I do watch. Of course, this is a site devoted to D&D. Slayers is inspired by fantasy roleplaying. I'm sure someone's going to bring it up eventually.

If you do watch Sailor Moon; don't try to watch too many episodes at once.

this is a list of ground breaking/ influential anime.

there should be some that are required because of how they shaped the culture and genre they inhabit.
you can argue which ones and some are never going to be the ones that interest you. hell the three I mention they would not rank in my top 10 favorite anime.
But dragonball series I think needs to be on this list. it is effect on culture and it effects on genre and the thing we expect from that genre fall from that one anime. nearly every current mangaka in the genre cites it as an influence. This the Ur example of typical shonen, the largest genre in all manga. its the first major export that globalized anime ( pokemon built on that). it sets the stereotypes that all shonen runs on. the power ups the kamehamehas the stupid spiky hair. its influence can't be understated.

we can argue about gundam or pokemon as each set up something special. there is reason the gundam models were like the first anime merc. it was the distinctly Japanese version of their scifi genre. the influence on western culture from pokemon is pretty astounding. its make up is standard shonen but its reach and movement between games, anime and card is second to none. hell we made a fun app and it became the most played app ever

[HandofShadows]

Unless I missed it, Fooly Cooly (and 2nd season on it's way. :smalleek::smallamused::smallcool::smallbiggrin:)

[Tvtyrant]

For sports manga (which runs back at least to the founding of shonen jump in Japan) I think the beginning 100 chapters of Hajime no Ippo is good. Then quit, because it then spends 20 years grinding training montages and pointless, not plot related fights.

It essentially establishes the martial arts manga formula of wimpy kid getting rescued by inhumanly powerful person, who takes them to be trained by their strict but good hearted master, then turns out to be a prodigy and rises to the top. Also the character never dates their love interest and will spend years in both the series and real life pining for them.

I do not know if it invented the formula, but Kenichi, The Breaker and Karate Minoru are almost carbon copies set in their own particular martial art.

[Steel Mirror]

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was very influential in codifying a lot of moe tropes. Other anime give it an explicit nod every once in a while, and lots of anime and other Japanese works nick some of its tricks as well. Other posters with more knowledge will have to fact check me on this, but I think it was also pretty important for setting the trend of light novel to anime adaptations, a fad which we are probably experiencing the height of right now (maybe it crested earlier this year or last year).

I'll second (or third, or fourth) Miyazaki films as a must-have for an anime connoisseur. Even if they end up not being your cup of tea, they are gorgeous and are such an important part of the milieu that you'll start recognizing imitators and ideas in other shows once you watch a few. I think the early stuff, like Nausicaa in the Valley of the Wind (ecological and war themes that really embody that era in Japanese media and continue to be influential today), Kiki's Delivery Service (arguably a slice of life movie despite its supernatural clothes, and a master class in setting atmosphere that taught shows like the recent wonderful Flying Witch and many, many others), My Neighbor Totoro (another atmosphere heavy entry, and probably the work that started getting him mainstream notice in the US), and Castle in the Sky (the aesthetics of the sky machines and fallen civilizations aren't really unique to this movie, but they are still very influential) are most likely to fit the criteria you were asking for. I will throw in a personal recommendation for Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away while we're here, but those are more recent (still 20 years old for Mononoke though, jeez I'm old) so they haven't had as much time to percolate.

For the historical perspective, the Astro Boy anime was indisputably important in the early years of anime. Anime didn't exist as a distinct entity before the show aired, and while it didn't make the medium single-handedly or anything like that, it did do more than anything else to develop an aesthetic and a group of loosely associated themes that would define what anime is.

Veering back to the more recent, K-On! is a much adored and much imitated show from a studio known for setting the standard for what a modern anime 'looks like', so it's worth a watch if you find the evolution of modern anime interesting. Or in its own right, I suppose. I'm not a huge fan myself, but I can appreciate how important it's been.

I'm trying to find a way to work in an argument for Nichijou and Azumanga Daioh here, but the best I can say is that they are so wildly unlike anything you'd get from anywhere else (that's a lie, there are plenty of great comedy skit shows in Britain especially that are sort of similar-ish, but these are still pretty unique), yet have their own well established niche in anime, that I think they merit a closer look by someone who is interested in the medium. Mr Osumatsu would be another show that fits a similar mold, though it puts its own stamp on it. It's a recent show, but it proved popular enough that I expect it to be influential in its own right as new shows pop up and build on what it started.

I can never recommend Madoka Magica enough, but if you are interested in anime as it developed such that Madoka was even possible, then you should watch the seminal works of the magical girl genre, which are enjoyable in their own right. Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha (see, now Puella Magi Madoka Magica doesn't seem like such a bad title! Or maybe it does) is known for being the magical girl show made for people who aren't necessarily little girls. Cardcaptor Sakura absolutely was made for the shoujo demographic, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it if you don't fit in that box. It was good and popular enough that it influenced all sorts of anime, even completely different genres, as well as basically embodying the epitome of the earnest and unironic magical girl show. Sailor Moon fits here as well.

There are lots of other shows that others have mentioned like Gundam, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Gurenn Lagann, Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and so on. I agree with them, but I wanted to branch out a bit and not repeat too much of what has already been said. Also I'm going to cheat a bit and throw three more recommendations at you: Kill la Kill, Shinsekai Yori, and One Punch Man. All of those are too recent for anyone to really argue that they are of historical importance, but I think they're so good in their own way that they'll be influencing the direction of anime for years to come, and that each of them embodies several trends and reactions to previous popular strains in anime such that they are good things to watch just to get a sense of the "moment" in the industry. (Or maybe I'm just recommending recent shows that I love, I'm a bad person.)

I've just given you a grab-bag of stuff as I thought of it, so I apologize for the lack of any kind of coherence in my recommendations. On the other hand, that's probably to be expected given that what we are talking about, "anime", is a pretty broad and heterogeneous umbrella that has tons of basically unrelated stuff underneath it. It's not a genre, I would argue it's not even a medium, it's just a sliver of a medium (animation) that is united pretty much only by the fact that it's all made in the same country. Then again, you say you're coming at it from the angle of having taken a film history course and wanting to do something similar with anime, so you're probably used to that kind of broad overview. :smallbiggrin: (Also apologies, I'm really really not trying to start a "what is anime" discussion, I just wanted to mention that it's a very broad category with a lot of diversity, so there are lots of shows and movies which you could argue are influential or niche-defining in narrowly defined sub-genres, but which may or may not be of interest to someone interested in the history of "anime" generally.)

[GloatingSwine]

For sports manga (which runs back at least to the founding of shonen jump in Japan) I think the beginning 100 chapters of Hajime no Ippo is good. Then quit, because it then spends 20 years grinding training montages and pointless, not plot related fights.


Sports manga predates Jump. Star of the Giants (an early Baseball manga) was a couple of years before Jump was first published.

If you want the ur-example of influential sports manga though, A****a no Joe, which is another Boxing series like Hajime no Ippo. AnJ captured the public zeitgeist of late '60s Japan with a story of a nobody proving himself and working his way up from nothing, and set a lot of the tone for upcoming sports manga.

[Lurkmoar]

I'd never say anyone was not a connoisseur, but I would always recommend Oyasumi Punpun for someone looking for a new manga to read. I'm not sure about influential, but it sure as felt like the punch in the gut to me. Horror aficionados should also read Uzumaki by Junji Ito (no relation to Naruto, but it sure would be cool if the end villain there was the spiral abomination then what ended up happening...). Junji Ito's Cat Dairy I would suggest just for laughs.

Also, Akira for the soundtrack alone.

[Tvtyrant]

Does anyone know where the "guy and girl made some promise as kids, but the guy forgot" trope was codified? It is always the guy who forgets the girl and the stuff they did, and they got seperated for some reason. I find a little odd (like just once they could have promised to get married and he shows up as a hot guy in high school or something).

[Red Fel]

Does anyone know where the "guy and girl made some promise as kids, but the guy forgot" trope was codified? It is always the guy who forgets the girl and the stuff they did, and they got seperated for some reason. I find a little odd (like just once they could have promised to get married and he shows up as a hot guy in high school or something).

It's a combination of the Childhood Marriage Promise (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChildhoodMarriagePromise) and the Forgotten First Meeting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForgottenFirstMeeting) tropes.

It really depends on context as to whether the guy or the gal forgets. If the guy forgets, it's usually either a shounen series (where the romantic tension is played almost exclusively for comedy, and rarely ever directly resolved until the hero goes off to fight the final battle), or a shoujo comedy of some sort. If the gal forgets, it may also be a comedy; it may also be a more tragic or romantic shoujo, or it may involve a reincarnation storyline. For example, in Sailor Moon:
Mamoru/Darien has periodic memory episodes where he recalls being Endymion, and therefore remembers Princess Serenity/Usagi/Serena before she recovers her memories. So, first, Mamoru feels the compulsion to masquerade as Tuxedo Kamen/Tuxedo Mask and protect Sailor Moon, although he doesn't know why. Later, he remembers. Later still, she remembers who she is, and by extension who he is, and what they meant to each other.

Reincarnation plots are a pain.
But yeah. If the guy forgets, it's usually for laughs; if the gal forgets, it's frequently a driving aspect of a more serious plot.

[ben-zayb]

While I agree that there are no specific anime that is a "must-have" for any "anime connoisseur", I'd instead recognize that anime as a medium is extremely diverse in terms of stories, genre convered, and writing style, and thus is hard to just be reduced to a handful of recommendations.

So, instead, I'll give you this (http://m.imgur.com/sDCfaW1) flowchart, which might lead you in better finding the intro anime that'll suit you.

[tensai_oni]

So, instead, I'll give you this (http://m.imgur.com/sDCfaW1) flowchart, which might lead you in better finding the intro anime that'll suit you.

This chart recommends watching FMA Brotherhood to an anime beginner, a series with a deliberately rushed first 1/3rd or so because it assumes the viewer is familiar with the previous anime adaptation.
It also calls Code Geass a smart show.

This is less of something actually useful for getting into anime and more listing every anime the chart's author heard of, ever. A fair bit of those I wouldn't recommend to an anime newbie even if they are good series.

Also I'm weirded out that shows from oughties (like Eureka Seven for example) are considered old now, or at least not new. How time flies.

Recommendations that were not given yet:

Doraemon is huge, often parodied or referenced in other works, and very popular to this day.

Sazae-san is a household name in Japan but almost virtually unknown outside of it. The manga was running for almost 30 years, the anime started in the 70s - and is still going on.

For another series that is super well known in Japan but barely anyone knows about it, Kochikame had a 40 year run as a manga.

It's live actor tokusatsu, but Ultraman deserved a special mention due to having heavily inspired Hideaki Anno. References to Ultraman are visible in almost everything he had his hand in making, from Nausicaa to Evangelion.

For giant robots, people mentioned Gundam but Gundam wasn't the start of the mecha genre at all. Mazinger Z was the first piloted mecha but I found Getter Robo (the original manga) more to my taste. It's a genre codifier for transforming mecha, and if you believe pre-Gundam mecha series were just merchandise vehicles to sell toys to kids without any serious plots... you're in for a surprise.

For Gundam in particular I recommend the original series, even if the animation is dated or full of offmodel QUALITY at times. This is because Gundam as a franchise likes to regurgigate the same plot elements and character archetypes so it's important to see where it all started.

While we still talk mecha, I'm sorry but people who feel the genre was "deconstructed" with Evangelion and then "reconstructed" with Gurren Lagann a decade later are wrong. First of all, there were mecha series that tackled ramifications of the genre way before Evangelion. Secondly, between TTGL and Eva we had a whole lot of normal mecha shows that thought nothing of how the latter "deconstructed" the genre. Thirdly, Gurren Lagann is a banchou show first and foremost, the robots are just setting trappings. It doesn't reconstruct the genre because it barely runs on the same conventions as the rest of the mecha genre.

That being said both Eva and TTGL are important for anime history and should be watched, especially the former due to how wildly popular and oft-referenced it is.

From series made in 2010 or later, I second the opinion that Madoka still remains the most influential and should be watched. While Madoka being the first dark magical girl show is as true as Evangelion being the first psych-heavy mecha show (that is: not at all), it's still super popular and very well made, and its directing and themes were an influence on anime as a whole, even to this day. Also in general it is a tightly knit series that makes excellent use of airtime and doesn't waste any of it.

[Silfir]

This chart recommends watching FMA Brotherhood to an anime beginner, a series with a deliberately rushed first 1/3rd or so because it assumes the viewer is familiar with the previous anime adaptation.

Eh, you don't need to have watched FMA to follow FMA: Brotherhood. I hadn't. It probably helps not to have watched the first FMA, because you won't have an image in your mind of how the plot should go.

[GloatingSwine]

While we still talk mecha, I'm sorry but people who feel the genre was "deconstructed" with Evangelion and then "reconstructed" with Gurren Lagann a decade later are wrong. First of all, there were mecha series that tackled ramifications of the genre way before Evangelion. Secondly, between TTGL and Eva we had a whole lot of normal mecha shows that thought nothing of how the latter "deconstructed" the genre. Thirdly, Gurren Lagann is a banchou show first and foremost, the robots are just setting trappings. It doesn't reconstruct the genre because it barely runs on the same conventions as the rest of the mecha genre.


That's because most people don't know what deconstruction is.

In order to understand deconstruction, you first have to understand modernist criticism. Modernist criticism regarded a given text as a conversation between the author and the reader, and from this determined that the text had a specific True Meaning, which was the thing the author was really saying. It used techniques like close reading to attempt to tease out and "prove" the true message of the text.

Deconstruction is founded on the argument that meaning is constructed only by the reader using the text as a basis, because the reader cannot help but filter the text through their own life experiences and literary frame of reference, and so deconstructive criticism uses the same techniques as Modernist criticism to show that multiple contradictory interpretations of the same text are possible, and that there is therefore no one "True Meaning". (This is also why the "death of the author" is an important principle of deconstruction, because the author cannot control the life experience or literary frame of reference of the reader, and those are what cause the reader to generate meaning in the text, the author's opinion of the meaning of a text is not priveleged above the reader's)

Deconstructive genre fiction, then, is simply a work which stands within a genre and demonstrates that it is quite possible to be within the genre but not follow the common prescribed path of the genre. Hence Evangelion is a deconstruction because it shows a character placed in the standard position of a super robot protagonist who, instead of doing the expected and rising to triumph over adversity instead cracks under the pressure of expectations and succumbs to depression leaving his final heroic effort being "make some connection with human beings" not "punch the bad guy and save the world".

Deconstruction does not set some kind of new path that the rest of the genre should follow. If it did it wouldn't actually be deconstruction. The point of deconstructive fiction is only to show that there are some other paths that can be followed.

[Blackhawk748]

Also, Akira.

I saw this at Gen Con this year. I hated this movie. I could vaguely follow what was going on, right up until the last 15 minutes in which i didnt stop going "Wtf is going on?" Seriously that movie needs like 5 minutes of Exposition, like really bad.

However, credit where it was due. It was animated very well.

Also i dont think anyone has mentioned Spirited Away. That movie is great and is the first anime movie I ever saw in theaters, with my father in fact, who also enjoyed the movie. Which is surprising as he doesnt get anime.

[BiblioRook]

Also i dont think anyone has mentioned Spirited Away. That movie is great and is the first anime movie I ever saw in theaters, with my father in fact, who also enjoyed the movie. Which is surprising as he doesnt get anime.

Ghibli in general has been mentioned.

I probably couldn't back it up with an explanation as to why, but part of me feels Azumanga Daioh should be up here as well. Best I can say is even now over a decade since I last saw it when I think of 'anime' it's still one of the first things that come to mind.

[DoctorFaust]

Also i dont think anyone has mentioned Spirited Away. That movie is great and is the first anime movie I ever saw in theaters, with my father in fact, who also enjoyed the movie. Which is surprising as he doesnt get anime.

As fantastic of a movie Spirited Away is, I really don't think it could be counted as all that influential. I mean, it made truckloads of money and won an Oscar, which are both fantastic, but Studio Ghibli's reputation was already well established by the time it came out. Out of Ghibli/Miyazaki's works, I would probably say either Nausicaa, Mononoke, or Totoro were the most important. Nausicaa was the first commercially successful feature film made by Miyazaki and enabled him to actually found Studio Ghibli, Mononoke because it was the one that really broke him out into the global market due to a distribution deal with Disney that didn't let them utterly butcher the film, and Totoro because of the sheer cultural significance that it's had.

[tensai_oni]

I probably couldn't back it up with an explanation as to why, but part of me feels Azumanga Daioh should be up here as well.

Azumanga Daioh was mentioned before and that's the only reason why I didn't bring it up as well. It's a cute and funny show but what makes it important is that it's a "cute girls doing cute things" series before this genre became popular. It also focuses on comedy first and can even be surprisingly mean spirited about it, while cuteness is second - in other shows it's often the other way around. Also its jokes are timeless and pretty universal (some Japanese cultural things aside) - compare Lucky Star, whose comedy is often based on referenced to things anime nerds like or things that were popular at the time.

[Gastronomie]

Reading Black Jack and Hi no Tori (the Bird of Fire, or the Phoenix) by Tezuka Osamu is something most otakus in Japan eventually come across.

Astro Boy is honestly overrated IMO. Okay, so it's probably an important piece and I know it, but nowadays honestly not that enjoyable. I've seen it, but at least I didn't think it had enough "power" to stay in the 21st century.

Black Jack and Hi no Tori, on the other hand, are still awesome reads. Black Jack also had an anime version with an awesome opening (Gekkouka, or Moonlight Flower), so that could be one way to jump into Tezuka's work.

You might need to know Japanese history to enjoy Hi no Tori to its fullest tho'.

[Red Fel]

I saw this at Gen Con this year. I hated this movie. I could vaguely follow what was going on, right up until the last 15 minutes in which i didnt stop going "Wtf is going on?" Seriously that movie needs like 5 minutes of Exposition, like really bad.

However, credit where it was due. It was animated very well.

The official cut of Akira is much, much longer, and fills in a lot of plot holes. Fact is, I would never call the theatrical cut of Akira great in the traditional sense - it was definitely surreal, and fairly Kubrick-esque in many ways, but as you mention, it was also confusing and convoluted. What it was, however, was iconic. Akira is considered one of the first acknowledgements by the West that anime could be cinematic, and art. Its shortcomings aside, it is such a brand name that it's been mentioned a lot in this thread, and comes up in virtually any thread about "must-see" anime.


As fantastic of a movie Spirited Away is, I really don't think it could be counted as all that influential. I mean, it made truckloads of money and won an Oscar, which are both fantastic, but Studio Ghibli's reputation was already well established by the time it came out. Out of Ghibli/Miyazaki's works, I would probably say either Nausicaa, Mononoke, or Totoro were the most important. Nausicaa was the first commercially successful feature film made by Miyazaki and enabled him to actually found Studio Ghibli, Mononoke because it was the one that really broke him out into the global market due to a distribution deal with Disney that didn't let them utterly butcher the film, and Totoro because of the sheer cultural significance that it's had.

I'm inclined to agree. Spirited Away was, as is frequently the case with Miyazaki, visually stunning and whimsically well-told, but unlike some of his more message-oriented works (e.g. Nausicaa with its environmental message), it was fairly fluffy - entertaining and lovely, but not terribly substantial. Nor has it had an impact as others have - its imagery isn't reused, like Totoro, and it hasn't become a basis for other concepts, the way others draw from Nausicaa.


Azumanga Daioh was mentioned before and that's the only reason why I didn't bring it up as well. It's a cute and funny show but what makes it important is that it's a "cute girls doing cute things" series before this genre became popular. It also focuses on comedy first and can even be surprisingly mean spirited about it, while cuteness is second - in other shows it's often the other way around. Also its jokes are timeless and pretty universal (some Japanese cultural things aside) - compare Lucky Star, whose comedy is often based on referenced to things anime nerds like or things that were popular at the time.

Azumanga Daioh is a great illustration of the slice-of-life comedy, but it's far from the first to be so. And while it has established (or re-established) many genre conventions, and is on its own merits very engaging and fun, I wouldn't necessarily call it as influential or iconic.

Definitely great, though. Particularly the legendary Norio Wakamoto.


Astro Boy is honestly overrated IMO. Okay, so it's probably an important piece and I know it, but nowadays honestly not that enjoyable. I've seen it, but at least I didn't think it had enough "power" to stay in the 21st century.

Inclined to agree. It's less iconic for being powerful or compelling, and more so for having been "there." Yes, it's one of the most recognized of the older series. Yes, it's a story about a boy robot, growing and helping others. Yes, it starts from a tragic history involving death, loss, and rediscovery of a sense of self. But from there, it very much turns into an adventure-of-the-week series, with very little to distinguish itself other than Tezuka's admittedly unique and clever art style.

Another I'd like to add is The Wings of Honneamise. This one is notable for many reasons, but one in particular - acknowledgment. We've discussed how Akira was one of the earliest examples of anime being seen by the West as art. Another example, and a somewhat more cohesive and tender one, is Wings of Honneamise. Released in 1987, and released in the US in 1995, Wings of Honneamise was widely praised, acknowledged as being very unique from "Disney animation," using dramatic shots and angles, as well as its complex story and tragic protagonist. This film, along with Akira and Totoro, formed for many Americans their initial overture into anime, and is itself a lovely film.

And on the manga front, let's talk about the iconic Lone Wolf and Cub. First published in the 1970s and still referenced today, it's an archetypical story set in feudal Japan. It's a great tale of betrayal and revenge - a man in a position of power is betrayed, his household slaughtered, his position taken from him through deceit. He is left with nothing but his very young son and a heart full of vengeance. The story is a gorgeous period piece, and raises plenty of well-executed tropes, in many ways defining the "disgraced samurai embarks on a mission of vengeance" genre. This series was so influential that it not only influences contemporary manga and anime, but also Western comics.

[Lethologica]

I'm inclined to agree. Spirited Away was, as is frequently the case with Miyazaki, visually stunning and whimsically well-told, but unlike some of his more message-oriented works (e.g. Nausicaa with its environmental message), it was fairly fluffy - entertaining and lovely, but not terribly substantial. Nor has it had an impact as others have - its imagery isn't reused, like Totoro, and it hasn't become a basis for other concepts, the way others draw from Nausicaa.
I agree that Spirited Away hasn't been as influential as some other Miyazaki works, but disagree strenuously that Spirited Away is in any way insubstantial. Whereas Mononoke is Miyazaki's assault on the environmental decay of industrialization, Spirited Away is his assault on the spiritual decay of materialism. Its tone is lighter and its scope narrower than Mononoke or Nausicaa (especially the much longer manga), but it's no less powerful for that, because the themes are as richly illustrated as any Ghibli panorama.

[Blackhawk748]

The official cut of Akira is much, much longer, and fills in a lot of plot holes. Fact is, I would never call the theatrical cut of Akira great in the traditional sense - it was definitely surreal, and fairly Kubrick-esque in many ways, but as you mention, it was also confusing and convoluted. What it was, however, was iconic. Akira is considered one of the first acknowledgements by the West that anime could be cinematic, and art. Its shortcomings aside, it is such a brand name that it's been mentioned a lot in this thread, and comes up in virtually any thread about "must-see" anime.

The other cut was longer? Dear lord the one i saw was freakin over 2 hours already.

Edit and i didnt realize that Nasuca had an anime, excuse me while i go watch that.

[Eldan]

The Nausicäa anime changes stuff around and ends earlier, just as a warning.

[Blackhawk748]

The Nausicäa anime changes stuff around and ends earlier, just as a warning.

Eh thats fine with me, as long as the basic plot remains the same. I mean i read the manga when i was like 10, actually im pretty sure its the first manga i ever read beginning to end.

[Kitten Champion]

My favourite thing about Astro Boy is Naoki Urasawa's Pluto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto_(manga)) that takes Tezuka's setting and reinterprets it into a somewhat gritty murder mystery story. It's an excellent read for its own sake, and using that sort of retro 50's-60's SF aesthetic with more modern story-telling sensibilities is something I enjoy personally.

[Red Fel]

The other cut was longer? Dear lord the one i saw was freakin over 2 hours already.

I seem to remember that for one anniversary screening, a museum showed a full cut that was several hours longer.


Edit and i didnt realize that Nasuca had an anime, excuse me while i go watch that.

It was gorgeous. Even the dub was good - the cast was amazing! Patrick Stewart! Mark Hamill! Frank Welker! Tony Jay!

[Blackhawk748]

I seem to remember that for one anniversary screening, a museum showed a full cut that was several hours longer.



It was gorgeous. Even the dub was good - the cast was amazing! Patrick Stewart! Mark Hamill! Frank Welker! Tony Jay!

That sounds like a Mini series not a movie.

Ok i IDed Mr Stewart, but who was Hamil voice acting?

[Red Fel]

Ok i IDed Mr Stewart, but who was Hamil voice acting?

Behold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film)#Voi ce_cast).

Mark Hamill played the Mayor of Pejite. Don't be disappointed if you didn't recognize him - Hamill has incredible range.

[Blackhawk748]

Huh, Lebouf is in there too. Neat.

And you are correct, the movie is very gorgeous, it aged well.

[Fri]

I must agree that Tezuka's Phoenix is amazing. It's really his magnum opus, and I'm sad to see that we will never see what he planned in fully.

How everything relates to each others across time and space, how there's no "good" and "bad" guys, just people with various motivations, the jump between fantasy, historical, and sci fi, it's amazing.

One thing that might weird you up is Tezuka's personal style. He draw heavy complex story with detailed artwork, AND cartoonish slapstick at the same time. So you might have this heavy story about... extinction of humanity or whatever, but people went around in slapsticky cartoonish way.

[NecroDancer]

Sienfeld, it's not an anime it's just really good

[NecroDancer]

Sienfeld, it's not an anime it's just really good. You can't call yourself a connoisseur if you haven't seen it

[Silfir]

I'm not sure what bothers me more; that you've brought a show into this thread that's not at all anime, that you did so with a double post, or that you spelled it wrong.

Also, Nodame Cantabile is way funnier than Seinfeld. :tongue:

[NecroDancer]

I'm not sure what bothers me more; that you've brought a show into this thread that's not at all anime, that you did so with a double post, or that you spelled it wrong.

Also, Nodame Cantabile is way funnier than Seinfeld. :tongue:

Autocorrect is horrible, and my phone went a bit crazy, sorry for the double post

[Lethologica]

you're not an anime connoisseur if you haven't seen at least five 'joke' non-anime recommendations in a rec thread

[Silfir]

I mean, if you're trying to inject some serious hilarity that way, you obviously have to mention the 100% fact that the best anime of all time is Avatar: The Last Airbender.

[BiblioRook]

Also, Nodame Cantabile is way funnier than Seinfeld. :tongue:

I don't know if you are trying to be sarcastic or not but Nodame Cantable was amazing. Maybe not 'instant classic' or a series that revolutionized a genre like the kind of things this thread is looking for, but still really good.

[Silfir]

I don't know if you are trying to be sarcastic or not but Nodame Cantable was amazing. Maybe not 'instant classic' or a series that revolutionized a genre like the kind of things this thread is looking for, but still really good.

Oh, that wasn't at all sarcastic. I love that anime to death.

[Tvtyrant]

I mean, if you're trying to inject some serious hilarity that way, you obviously have to mention the 100% fact that the best anime of all time is Avatar: The Last Airbender.

:/ I believe we define facts quite differently.

The best anime of all time is clearly the Megaman cartoon.

[Red Fel]

:/ I believe we define facts quite differently.

The best anime of all time is clearly the Megaman cartoon.

Nah. Going with X-Men.

No, seriously. I mean, look.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptn4yE5-APE

[Blackhawk748]

I loved that X-Men, Jubilee is great

[Gastronomie]

Guys, the best anime in all time is clearly Seiken Tsukai no World Break. Okay, so like, maybe it's not.

[Marlowe]

Well, at least we can rule out ZZ Gundam because it's not an anime. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwRlvn1v8Ns)

I should echo the recommendation for Gunbuster. So many anime stock devices crammed into six episodes with heartbreaking seriousness. You'll probably cringe a little at what a cliche-storm it can be, but it ultimately reminds you that these devices get used all the time for a reason.

If we're including Manga; I can strongly recommend Battle Angel Alita (the original nine-volume run, not the Last Order semi-sequel). A hoary, post-apocalyptic action premise with obvious western influences that finishes up as something rather deeper. I've not seen the 2-episode anime spin-off.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Nah. Going with X-Men.

No, seriously. I mean, look.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptn4yE5-APE
Every so often, someone reminds me that this exists, and the world is a beautiful place again.

[Fri]

Not as good (and relevant to the current joke) as x-men, but a reminder that there's also a zorro and tmnt anime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFvRj4oOKlI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGMfb60lc14

[Alabenson]

I gotta add about Rumiko Takahashi, the reason she's still relevant ( or was, if she's retired by now) is because of sticking to the formula, as it were. It's time-tested after all. her target demographic is a narrow age band, and necessity dictates "starting over fresh " every once in a while because let's face it, jumping into the middle of a long running series with even marginal continuity is suboptimal. There's some overlap between say Ranma and Inuyasha in terms of story and age group, but I was firmly leaving/left the target group when Inuyasha came along. Runic Theater anthologies worked well because it allowed Takahashi to try some other things, but like I mentioned, she had long term success because she's got her business model down.

While I agree with you about the Takahashi's importance, I think you've left out mentioning what was probably her most significant work in terms of influence on the medium; Urusei Yatsura. Granted it was never as popular in the US as her later works, but it helped codify the Magical Girlfriend and Harem Comedy genres.

[Winter_Wolf]

I loved UY, but I figure it's both hard to find anymore (I haven't actually looked in years, but last time it was near impossible) and a lot of people seem not to enjoy the level of slapstick involved despite liking say Looney Tunes. Then again I think a lot of stuff doesn't translate that well to English, so it would be difficult to quantify just how it influenced other works. Unfortunately, because the jokes were really funny in Japanese. The dub made me hate being able to hear.

[Fri]

Not actually Urusei Yatsura.

Maison Ikkoku. Now that's Rumiko's masterpiece and the trope codefier of manga romantic comedy.

For the male version. Adachi Mitsuru.

I don't think most western manga/anime fan understand how BIG and influential he is. Basically, on his heyday in late 70s early 80s, most manga in shonen jump are romantic comedy, because of him. Because of his manga are so popular, and everyone try to ape him, and nobody dare to make anything else. Even now he's still considered one of the godfather of manga. I think it took Fist of the North Star gaining popularity for shonen jump to finally move on from romantic comedy to shonen battle manga.

His most influential and popular manga is Touch obviously (it's been adapted to anime, live action, movie, whatever), but he's also a very versatile mangaka and had written anything from short stories, sci-fi, romance, fantasy, sport, and such.

[Silfir]

I must confess I haven't seen a lot of that versatility in action - all of the Adachi Mitsuru I've read or watched has been about baseball. He's got an absolute lock on baseball romantic comedy for some reason.

That said, the best baseball manga I know in terms of just how much it is about baseball than anything else is Major.

[Fri]

Well, it's true that mostly he make baseball romance comedy (or sometimes other sport, like boxing, but same formula. That's why I compare him with takahashi).

There's actually a joke about that in one of his series that's not actually about baseball. There are baseball playing characters there who tongue-in-cheekly sometimes break the fourth wall because he's thinking he's the main character of the manga, and it's a manga about baseball, while it's actually about something else and he's just an recurring side-character.

But he makes lots of other romance series at least, like Jinbe, which is a delicate seinen romance drama about the life of a single father and his step daughter, and I actually knew him first not from romance drama at all actually, but from a weird alternate history adventure story Niji-iro Tōgarashi (because that's the one published around my childhood when I was start reading manga).