PDA

View Full Version : Dealing with the Devil, monkeywrenching a new magic mechanic.



mabriss lethe
2007-07-07, 11:44 PM
I have a great idea for a PrC. (or possibly a base class, but not likely) I want to come up with lacking a better name a "Wishmaster" Here's the guy who can help your dreams come true...if the price is right. I've just run into a snag. I have no idea how to sledgehammer the idea into line with standard rules.

Here's what I do have:

Bargaining with a wishmaster:
A wishmaster's power is derived solely from the deals he makes with other sentient beings. These bargains have two distinct parts. Power and Price. The bigger the mojo you want to squeeze from one, the more you have to pay. Though there's no reason why a wishmaster couldn't specify hard cash as a price, most won't. It's the mark of an amateur in their eyes. Mechanically, their powers are fairly open-ended. There isn't a whole lot they can't do if the price is right.

Power: This covers the aspect of the bargain dealing with what the target wants from the wishmaster. Wealth, beauty, immortality, you name it. No matter what they ask for, the Wishmaster is only bound by the exact letter of the agreement, not the spirt or the expectations of the target. Generally, the bigger the wish they want, the more they have to pay.

Price: The second aspect of a wishmaster's Bargain. Once the target has decided upon a "wish", The wishmaster then names a price. They might often seem innocuous, but these things have a way of turning on the target, causing them the maximum pain possible. Altering the price after it has been agreed upon requires another bargain be struck (with its own attendant price)

Defaulting on a bargain: if the target doesn't perform the agreed-upon service or pay the agreed-upon price, the target defaults. This is not a good place for the target to be. They are then totally defenseless to a wishmaster's abilites. no saves no SR, nothing save an antimagic field or the direct intervention of a diety can halt the wishmaster's magical wrath. They become a Thrall, virtual slaves to the Wishmaster.

Thralls: Those who are either unwilling or unable to repay their debt to the wishmaster become his thralls. Thralls are compelled to obey the wishmaster until they have fully repaid the debt through service, or have been released by the wishmaster.


Your soul, sign here: Only the most powerful of the wishmasters may demand this ultimate price: A bargainer's soul. For every soul the wishmaster owns, he gains some sort of bonus or additional power, though I haven't fleshed this bit out yet. targets who die while the wishmaster owns their souls cannot be returned to life by any means without his permission. this permission often takes the form of yet another bargain with those who wish to see him revived...Continuing the cycle.

Notes about wishmaster magics: The magics they employ are primal and difficult to control. They can't access them personally. they may only grant the requests of others. However, as long as the wishmaster sticks to the exact letter of the agreement, he may fulfill it in any way he pleases. Any magic the wishmaster applies to a target, even if it mimics the effects a listed spell is not subject to any form of save or even SR. The target has to give his consent in the first place. Once that crack appears in their armor, the wishmaster may exploit it with the full force of his abilities.

Wishmaster vs. Wishmaster: Relationships between wishmasters are convoluted. Amongst themselves they deal almost strictly in favor trading. The most valuable currency among them is the power of a bargain. "OK. You want me to do this for you, but you gotta do something for me in return. Nah, it don't have to be now. we'll settle up eventually." While not all are friendly with one another, they all treat each other civilly and come the closet to dealing fair with thier own kind. awishmaster never knows when he'll be the one needing a favor from his brothers, so it's best not to burn any bridges.

Petition: Wishmasters sometimes get requests they can't handle or sometimes they need to strike a bargain with one of their brothers or sisters. Any wishmaster may mentally summon the attention of another wishmaster. sometime in the next 24 hours, the player will run into another of his order. It might seem like a happy coincidence,just bumping into each other, or the wishmaster might appear in a cloud of smoke and other assorted pyrotechnics.

Specific bargains: There are some requests that have very rigid prices attached. If a target wants to become a wishmaster himself, any wishmaster may induct him, allowing him to take levels in the class. the only allowed price in this transaction is a minor bargain when and if the target ever becomes a wishmaster. Atonement for violating the Great Pact is also a specific bargain. I haven't figured out exactly what the price should be.

Names and titles: Knowledge of a Wishmaster's name gives a mortal a fair degree of power over him. If they speak the wishmaster's name in earshot, they gain a bonus to all checks for haggling with the wishmaster to establish a price. Therefore, all Wishmasters are known to the world by a title. Even other wishmasters refer to each other by title even if they do know each others names. it's professional curtesy again.

Violating the Pact: in order for a wishmaster to utilize his magic, he must agree to the Great Pact. The Pact sets down the rules and guidlines of the order, enumerating the specific powers and limitations of all wishmasters. It's within the Pact that specific bargains are listed with their associated prices. if a wishmaster violates the pact, he loses all of his powers except the ability to voice a petition. The only way for a wishmaster to atone is to petition a wishmaster in good standing to restore his powers. This involves a bargain, The price of the bargain would replace the usual quests and baggage associated with atoning.

mikeejimbo
2007-07-08, 12:10 AM
This makes a really good BBEG. Indeed, somewhat like a Devil or one of those wish-granters. (Imagine one of them with levels in this class.)

I take it that they are largely evil? I think I read somewhere that in evil planes, souls are used as currency.

mabriss lethe
2007-07-08, 12:15 AM
When I get down the nuts and bolts, I think I'll just have the alignment restriction as "Any non-good."

I don't see all of them being absolutely evil, but they're all pretty selfish at the very least. They'd be, on average, about as evil as your run of the mill used car salesman. Some fair dealers and some total scumbags, but most walking somewhere in the middle.

and I could definitely see some pretty nasty outsiders taking at least a few levels in this. One of the capstones I'm considering is an apotheosis a la Dragon disciple and Acolyte of the skin, so that at 10 level they become some sort of outsider or half-critter themselves

mikeejimbo
2007-07-08, 12:21 AM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Asking for the client's soul is certainly evil, but nothing says that the Wishmaster ever has to ask for that. In fact, he could always ask for things that wouldn't be evil. And if he always fulfills the wish in a straight-forward way, he might not even have to be evil.

I think "any non-good" is a good restriction, because a good person probably wouldn't go around fulfilling everyone's wishes. People often wish for selfish things.

mabriss lethe
2007-07-08, 12:26 AM
Possibly even "Non-good, non-Chaotic" since the pact that binds them is pretty strict. I'm not particularly thrilled by that though. I think that's cutting it a bit fine as the idea now stands. If they come of as overpowered after everything is said and done that might be an additional way to help limit them a little.

I'm thinking about using invocation levels as a guideline for the various strengths of bargains. Least, lesser, greater, and super-whatever-cool-name-i-come-up-with. One of the acceptable forms of payment for the superwhatevers would be souls. What I'm thinking now about the price goes something along these lines:

In order for a bargain to stick, the wishmaster and target have to agree upon a price of equal or greater value than the power. The wishmaster will generally try to push for a higher price, but that's more for personal gain than any real increase in the effectiveness of the bargain.

self sacrifice is another thing I'm thinking of. A wishmaster could, in theory, make a bargain with himself, unfortunately there's only one price in those situations. Being stripped of power for violating the pact. The bargain still goes through, and any other wishmaster will be forced to bargain hard to restore his powers, just so they don't appear like they're trying to curry favors for the future.

mikeejimbo
2007-07-08, 12:36 AM
I might even enforce "must be lawful" for them, due to the nature of the Pact and the deals.

That leaves only Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil, though.


self sacrifice is another thing I'm thinking of. A wishmaster could, in theory, make a bargain with himself, unfortunately there's only one price in those situations. Being stripped of power for violating the pact. The bargain still goes through, and any other wishmaster will be forced to bargain hard to restore his powers, just so they don't appear like they're trying to curry favors for the future.

That could lead to some interesting things with wishmasters trying to find loopholes in their own bargain. Although, it would be easier to make a bargain with another wishmaster, as you outlined above.

I'm really liking the idea, though.

mabriss lethe
2007-07-08, 12:40 AM
if I went with "must be lawful" I'd probably nix the "any non-good" sure, an LG character might take up a level or two, but he'd be bound by his alignment to keep from being a total scumback when striking deals. if you restrict a prc to just 2 alignments, there's just something not right...

mikeejimbo
2007-07-08, 12:46 AM
if I went with "must be lawful" I'd probably nix the "any non-good" sure, an LG character might take up a level or two, but he'd be bound by his alignment to keep from being a total scumback when striking deals. if you restrict a prc to just 2 alignments, there's just something not right...

Are you sure there isn't precedence for it, though? There are some that are restricted to three, like the assassin's "Any evil".

Heck, the Paladin is restricted to one. :smalltongue:

mabriss lethe
2007-07-08, 01:02 AM
Unless there's compelling reason otherwise, limiting a Prestige to 3 alignments on a single axis is the farthest I'll go when I homebrew. If I want to restrict the class further, I'll find some other way to do it. skill, bab, caster level, feat reqs,

...or in this case a special requirement: you'd have to had prior dealings with the wishmasters and been inducted as part of a bargain.

That's not saying that I won't severly restrict a PrC's alignment. But at this point I'd say leave it until the rest of the class takes shape. then decide

mikeejimbo
2007-07-08, 01:14 AM
I imagine Charisma will be extremely important to them, as well as Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Gather Information.

mabriss lethe
2007-07-08, 01:39 AM
I imagine Charisma will be extremely important to them, as well as Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Gather Information.

pretty much spot on. Appraise, also. they do know the value of things. maybe a will save, or feat: skill focus/diligent. I'm thinking about using the cleric's save progression and either 1/2 or 3/4 BAB....leaning more towards the latter at the moment.

Right now my biggest stumbling block is figuring out how to work out the mechanics of Bargain ability. I have some ideas for benchmarking it. but they're pretty vague. I have a feeling this one will require a loooooot of playtesting and munchkin TLC before the kinks get ironed out.

Green Bean
2007-07-08, 01:52 AM
This is a really cool class concept idea. I assume that this is primarily an NPC class, though, because this would be a pain to DM in the hands of a PC.

Icewalker
2007-07-08, 01:59 AM
Very cool, and I like it.

Too easily abusable in the hands of a PC. Amazing NPC or BBEG though. Or even better, a mix of the two :smallamused:

One nice little note I have for you on souls: The Book of Vile Darkness has a section on 'souls as power' and what you can do with them. You could add your own piece, or just use theirs.

This sounds like a very fun thing to use. I've always liked the manipulation of contractual deals. Fine print!

I suggest using The Giant's version of the Diplomacy skill, under the gaming tab. PERFECT for this situation. Like I mean PERFECT.

CthulhuM
2007-07-08, 02:15 AM
A very interesting idea for a DM tool, but before you go off and write up an entire PRC with a complicated list of guidelines describing what powers/prices become available and at what level, you might want to consider a more minimalistic approach. If I were you, I'd just write up a some general guidelines on the relationship between power and price, the details of the Great Pact, thralls and working off prices, etc. Then just do the rest by DM fiat.

As h_v says, this hypothetical class seems like an unlikely choice for any PCs to take - allowing that would just be begging for the campaign to degenerate into constant attempts to cut deals, and arguments over what the "letter of the agreement" implies. Perhaps even worse, any rules system for this will inevitably run into inconsistencies: Is asking for the death of a court jester who made fun of you worth as much as asking for the death of the BBEG? Should Otto's Irresistible Dance really cost more than a no-save Finger of Death because it's technically a higher level spell? These are the sorts of questions you'll inevitably run into, and no matter how many you catch, someone will always find a loophole.

So, if all the arbitrators of this power are going to be NPCs anyway, and you'll probably have to deny requests on the basis that "that just isn't even" eventually one way or another, why not just say it's entirely up to you from the start? I know, ad hoccing rules isn't the DnD way, but the alternative seems like a nightmare in this instance, and making the rulings yourself rather than choosing certain specific things that can be asked for or received will allow everyone involved to be that much more creative.

Jack_Simth
2007-07-08, 09:03 AM
How about a Wishmaster as a power broker?

The Wishmaster has almost no power in and of himself - his only power is in finding those willing to trade (both those who have services to offer and those who have needs they're willing to pay for) and in enforcing the deal; collection of the soul, control of the thrall, and so on - what he's got are "contacts" (Dragons, outsiders with class levels, Solars, Planetars, Efreeti, Pit Fiends, Glabrezu, and so on). These contacts charge a flat fee for the effect (treat as hiring a spell of a reasonable level to do the effect). Dragons take gold/gems/magic items at triple list rate (although they will take quests when they have a pressing need - and as Dragons are NPC's, this is DM fiat), Evil Outsiders take souls (either entire or by way of drained XP - treat XP on a 1 to 1 basis as GP for trading and use standard rates - with the proviso that they'll do almost anything within their power for an actual, complete soul); Good outsiders hire difficult quests - and require payment in advance. The contact chooses the nature of the payment, although they will be reasonably predictable about it - Demons/Devils will always take a soul or portion of a soul, Dragons will always take gold/gems/magic items, good aligned outsiders will always take a "fair" quest in payment - but only when the contractor has a reasonable chance of success.

The crunch, then, becomes a matter of limiting the Wishmaster - what types of contacts he has, what they can do, and so on.

Someone wishing for "Beauty" might find that what they're bargaining for is to have a Succubi posses them. When it happens, the Succubi (a separate intelligence from the host) can apply the critter's powers to the "host" as it chooses - which means the "wisher" gets an arbitrary form of a sex-demon's choosing. Perhaps the host gets to use the Succubi's Charisma score. With a "good" deal, the Succubi is basically along for the ride, and follows orders with the contracted abilities. With a "normal" deal, the Succubi does the same as with a "good" deal, but whispers into the back of the hosts mind (Will save DC 20 each day or give the Succubi a "concession" as per an intelligent magic item; will save DC 20 each week or slip a step towards Chaotic Evil). With a "Bad" deal, it's the host that's along for the ride.

Hmm....

Zeta Kai
2007-07-08, 12:18 PM
Well, let's get working on stats, shall we? Here's a Rough Draft to start with:

The Wish Mage (PrC)
{table]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting|Total Contracts at a Time
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Broker Contract|+1 level of existing spellcasting class|1
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|2
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|3
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|4
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|5
6th|+4|+5|+2|+5||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|6
7th|+5|+2|+5|+5||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|7
8th|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|8
9th|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6||+1 level of existing spellcasting class|9
10th|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Soul Pact|+1 level of existing spellcasting class|10[/table]

I_Got_This_Name
2007-07-08, 03:40 PM
The description screamed "monster" to me louder than it seemed like it would make a good PrC; I'd probably write it up as a monster. Maybe a template.

Induction would then involve trading out a set number of your levels for Wishmaster hit dice. To keep abilities (mostly) seemless, make it a spellcasting outsider.

I can also get behind making it a mere power broker, with its only power being that it has the right contacts.

Jack_Simth
2007-07-08, 06:10 PM
Well, let's get working on stats, shall we? Here's a Rough Draft to start with:

Zeta Kai:
You've got a full caster progression class with 3/4ths BAB and two good saves. Looks like a upgraded Cleric class, so far. Probably a bad idea, balance-wise.


The Wish Mage (PrC)
Hit Die: d4
Requirements:
To become a Wish Mage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Alignment: Any Lawful
Skills: Knoweledge(The Planes) 10 ranks, Profession(Lawyer) 10 ranks,
Spells: Ability to cast Sending and one of: Lesser Planar Binding, Planar Binding, Greater Planar Binding, Lesser Planar Ally, Planar Ally, or Greater Planar Ally
Special: The Wish Mage must be inducted by an existing Wish Mage.

Class Skills: The Wish Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana/The Planes/Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
{table]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Broker Contract, Thrall, Assistant, Otherworldly Riches, Binding, Contact Senior Wish Mage
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
7th|+3|+2|+5|+5||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6||+1 level of existing spellcasting class
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Soul Pact|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

Broker Contract (Su): The Wish Mage has the ability to make contracts enforced with supernatural power between a mortal and an Outsider or Elemental the Wish Mage is capable of Calling through a Planar Ally or Planar Binding spell (the Wish Mage need not bargain with the outsider, nor take percautions - the Wish Mage contacts a known outsider or elemental that is interested in this type of deal). For the Outsider or Elemental, this contract is completely binding once made, but can only be entered into voluntarily. Only the mortal involved is capable of going into default. If the mortal does, he becomes a Thrall.
In most cases, the Outsider or Elemental wants for only one currency: The essence (expressed as XP) of a mortal. Occasionally, an Outsider or Elemental will accept a deed done on their behalf in lieu of payment, although in all such cases, the Outsider or Elemental must be paid in advance. For short-term, "physical" services, the Outsider or Elemental requires a payment of the creature's CR squared times 100 xp per day of service (thus, a CR 6 Kyton would cost 3,600 xp per day to accompany and obey the mortal). The length of the contract is specified in advance. This comes from the Mortal in the contract. The Wish Mage is free to charge more at his discrection; additional XP always comes from the mortal in the contract and goes into the Wish Mage's Otherworldly Riches pool. The Wish Mage can also charge favors, money, or other forms of payment as he sees fit. If the Mortal defaults on the contract (cannot cover the daily XP expense, cannot give the Wish Mage the other form of payment) the Mortal becomes a Thrall of the Wish Mage (see below), the Outsider or Elemental's end of the deal is complete; the Outsider or Elemental collects the last "paycheck" from the Wish Mage. If the Wish Mage cannot cover the last "paycheck" out of his Otherworldy Riches pool, or his current XP pool, the Wish Mage dies, no save, no SR, and the Outsider or Elemental takes the soul of the Wish Mage as payment (the Wish Mage cannot be Restored to life in any way without that outsider's consent). The mortal can "fire" the Outsider or Elemental at any time without penalty - although the mortal must still make the last day's pay, or be in default, and become a Thrall. If the Outsider or Elemental is killed, it's kin collect a week's worth of pay. If the Mortal can't cover it, he becomes a thrall, and they collect from the Wish Mage.
In the event that the Wish Mage can fulfill a contract without the help of an outsider or elemental, the Wish Mage is free to charge whatever he likes.
The Wish Mage can have, at most, one contract per class level active at any given time.
Thrall (Su): When a mortal is in Default on a contract with a Wish Mage, she has problems.
First: The Thrall gets neither a save nor SR to any effect from the Wish Mage (be that a spell, spell-like, supernatural, or Ex ability).
Second: The Thrall takes a -20 penalty on any opposed skill or ability check vs. the Wish Mage.
Third: If the Thrall dies while in default, the Thrall's soul is transferred to the Wish Mage's Otherworldy Riches pool.
Otherworldy Riches (Su): This is where the Wish Mage stores his "cut". It starts empty. He can hold no more than his class level squared times 1,000 xp in his Otherworldly Riches Pool. Additionally, the Wish Mage can store one soul per class level in his Otherworldy Riches pool. A stored soul can be drained of XP to cover costs for a contract; in this case, any XP drain sufficient to reduce the stored soul in level does so. If the Soul reaches 0 XP, it cannot be drained further, and is instead released to whatever afterlife it may have earned. A soul so stored cannot be restored to life in any way short of the direct involvement of a diety without the Wish Mage's consent - and when the soul is successfully restored to life, the Wish Mage no longer has access to it.
Assistant (Sp): The Wish Mage gains a special familiar (this replaces any existing familiar at no XP loss) that is either an Imp (if the Wish Mage is Lawful Evil) or a Lantern Archon (if the Wish Mage is Lawful Good). A Lawful Neutral Wish Mage may have a standard familiar from the normal list available to Wizards. The Assistant gains all benefits of being a familiar of the Wish Mage's level, and any other classes that grant a familiar stack with class levels in the Wish Master class in order to determine familiar abilities. The assistant counts as a Summoned creature; if it is killed, it does not actually die, and so the Wish Mage experiences no loss of XP, the same one may be Summoned again 24 hours later after it finishes reforming on its home plane.
Summoning the Assistant is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity (and is equivalent to a 1st level spell). Dismissing the Assistant is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. When the Assistant leaves, it drops anything it is carrying.
Binding (Su): A Wish Mage can Bind the essence of an outsider or elemental into a mortal, to grant the mortal some portion of the Outsider's power (In the form of a mental or physical statistic that the Outsider or Elemental has which is stronger than the Mortal's, a skill where the Outsider or Elemental has a better modifier, a special quality or special attack that the Outsider or Elemental has that the mortal does not, and so on; spell casting and spell-like abilities can not be granted through this method). Only one essence can be bound to a given mortal at a given time. While so bound, the essence takes an XP penalty equal to 10% times the number of abilities the mortal gets from the outsider from any XP the mortal would otherwise have earned - so a mortal taking the DR and Earth Glide ability of a Large Earth Elemental (two abilities), the Earth Elemental would charge 20% of any XP gain the mortal would otherwise have earned. The Wish Mage can add a fee of any amount or type the Wish Mage desires, although it must be agreed to by the mortal. If the mortal dies, the Outsider or Elemental is released from his contract without harm, and takes one day's pay per the Broker Contract ability from the Wish Mage (this does not qualify as Default on the part of the Mortal contractor, although it might result in the death of the Wish Mage as above).
If the Bound Outsider or Elemental has more Hit Dice than does the mortal, the two make opposed Will saves each week. If the mortal wins, nothing happens. If the Outsider or Elemental wins, the mortal slips one step towards the Outsider or Elemental's alignment.
The Bound Outsider or Elemental causes the mortal to register as the Bound Outsider or Elemental.
Contact Senior Wish Mage (Su): If a Wish Mage has a request that he cannot carry out under his own power, or wishes to himself enter a contract, he may contact a Wish Mage with greater power than his own. The contacted Wish Mage shows up sometime within the next 24 hours and makes himself known. One Wish Mage always deals fairly with another; there is a standard 10% handling fee over the cost that the chosen Outsider or Elemental demands.
Soul Pact: At 10th level, the Wish Mage makes a contract very much in his favor with a CR 3 or less Outsider or Elemental. The outsider or Elemental is Bound to the Wish Mage for all the Elemental or Outsider's special attacks, special qualities, ability scores, and skills (excepting any spell-like or spellcasting abilities), at no cost to the Wish Mage.

Zeta Kai
2007-07-08, 07:04 PM
Zeta Kai:
You've got a full caster progression class with 3/4ths BAB and two good saves. Looks like a upgraded Cleric class, so far. Probably a bad idea, balance-wise.

Don't look at me; I was just charting what was stated above by the thread-starter. Glad to see that you've taken the ball & run with it, though. Now let's hear what Mabriss Lethe has to say.

P.S.: It seems pretty heavy on the front end, so to speak. So many special abilities to start with, & then nothing until 10th level. Maybe some of the initial ones could be delayed, like Contact Senior Wish Mage?

P.P.S.: Soul Pact was proposed as a means to claim a signer's soul as payment; the ultimate price for a contracted power. Your version bears no resemblance to the ability's intent.

P.P.P.S.: You've removed the Maximum # of Contracts at any One Time. Am I to assume that you intend to allow a Wish Mage to enter into as many contracts at a time as they want? How is this to be balanced at lower levels?

Jack_Simth
2007-07-08, 07:18 PM
Don't look at me; I was just charting what was stated above by the thread-starter. Glad to see that you've taken the ball & run with it, though. Now let's hear what Mabriss Lethe has to say.

Ah, okay.


P.S.: It seems pretty heavy on the front end, so to speak. So many special abilities to start with, & then nothing until 10th level. Maybe some of the initial ones could be delayed, like Contact Senior Wish Mage?

Yep. Of course, that first level gives you no spellcasting advancement (which is a fairly hefty price), and you can only have one active contract per class level, and only one soul stored per class level, and your storehouse caps off at Class level squared * 1,000 xp - so if your first contract is for a CR 4 bodyguard for a mage, and you fill up your storehouse with the excess, you're still in the hole for 600 xp (4*4*100=1,600 per day charge for the outsider/elemental, 1,000 xp in your storehouse).


P.P.S.: Soul Pact was proposed as a means to claim a signer's soul as payment; the ultimate price for a contracted power. Your version bears no resemblance to the ability's intent.
True - my version gets that right off the bat (it's what happens when a Thrall in default dies). Hmm... eh, happens.

P.P.P.S.: You've removed the Maximum # of Contracts at any One Time. Am I to assume that you intend to allow a Wish Mage to enter into as many contracts at a time as they want? How is this to be balanced at lower levels?
I removed it from the table - it's still in the text. At a flat 1 per class level, there's not much point in including it in the table itself.

mabriss lethe
2007-07-08, 09:31 PM
keep it going guys. Due to a nasty little work accident, I'll have to bow out of the forums for a few days (the stitches in my hand make typing difficult.) I like what I'm seeing so far. thumbs up (or at least most of my thumbs...)