Help With extending OOTA

[DwarvenGM]

So my players are wanting to take characters to level 20. Usually I stop games a around 15 but I figured as we are about to start Out of the abyss I could extend it to get players up to level 20.

My idea is to throw Orcus in the mix. Through out the campaign I'll throw in signs of Orcus activity and basically have him building up an arming and trying to avoid unnecessary conflicts until he is ready to make his move. Which will be after the adventurers have removed all of his competition for him.

My basic ideas as of now are.

Keep track of how many undead followers Orcus gains per a day. The longer the party takes to complete the larger his force will be.

Keep track of the location of Orcus and drop hints of his activity when he is within a mile. For example if players takes a rest around their enemies they killed they may see the bodies rise and start to move towards Orcus's location.

Have Orcus readying to launch a full scale envasion on the surface world as the players are celebrating their victory over Demegorgon.

The players will have a short amount of time to rally allies and stop Orcus and his horde.

If players fail, considering how powerful Orcus is I see this as being very probable, I will use this as a prelude to my own homebrew game where players are in a forgotten realms campaign where orcus rules the lands and use the undead versions of their old characters as elite soldiers.


If the players succeed their characters will be known as heroes and I will work that into my next campaign as well.

So I'm looking for thoughts.

Does this sound to forced?

Will level 20 characters make a mockery of orcus? I've never seen play at that level

What ideas do you guys have to improve on my idea?

P.S. The party composition is 2 fighters, 1 dragonborn battlemaster, 1 hill dwarf purple dragon knight. 1 Mountain dwarf cleric Domain of light, 1 Halfling rogue undecided on archetype. And 1 human paladin also undecided on archetype. Except the cleric everyone willbe melee focused.

[Ashdate]

A few things to think about (not idea-breaking, just things to think about or build upon):

Why does the ritual that snags Demogorgan and the other remaining demon lords not snag Orcus?
What is the mind flayer/Illithids involvement in this plan?
How does Lolth fit into also this (it was her idea to bring the demons lords to the Underdark after all)?

I personally like the books suggestion about heading into the Abyss to fight Lolth as a "after the adventure" suggestion. My biggest worry with your idea is filling five levels of interesting content against Orcus (I think Faerun is kind of boring).

So I would sketch out what this final stretch looks like into five parts, one per level. Where do the players begin each chapter, and where should they end?

[Falcon X]

A few things to think about (not idea-breaking, just things to think about or build upon):

Why does the ritual that snags Demogorgan and the other remaining demon lords not snag Orcus?
What is the mind flayer/Illithids involvement in this plan?
How does Lolth fit into also this (it was her idea to bring the demons lords to the Underdark after all)?

I personally like the books suggestion about heading into the Abyss to fight Lolth as a "after the adventure" suggestion. My biggest worry with your idea is filling five levels of interesting content against Orcus (I think Faerun is kind of boring).

So I would sketch out what this final stretch looks like into five parts, one per level. Where do the players begin each chapter, and where should they end?
My thoughts exactly on each point. But I'll try to expand:

The reason the ritual to get Demogorgan works is because it is indiscriminate. It get ALL the fiends in the underdark so they will kill each other.
Possible solutions:
- Orcus is the one who comes out on top from the battle and escapes without the player's killing him. This will be hard to not seem contrived.
- Even though Orcus is killed (banished, to be clear), his plans are already in place. Orcus is very smart and might have known he would eventually be banished. Orcus is unique in that his followers here wouldn't all be fiends, but would contain many undead who could carry on in his absence.

Mind Flayer involvement:
- This is a good default idea when it comes to Orcus. We know that Orcus took out a major Mind Flayer colony, likely making them his minions.
- Mind Flayers COULD be behind everything. Gromph Baenre was the one who accidentally weakened the barrier to the Abyss by combining arcane and psionic energies. He was manipulated into doing this by a drow who had studied a long time with Mind Flayers. There is also a Mind Flayer advising Matron Mother Baenre. Lot's of room for Mind Flayers to be a part of the larger plot. Read R. A. Salvatore's "Archmage" for more on that story.
- Mind Flayers are insane enough to present challenges at high levels.

Other ideas:
- I personally like the idea of going planar after this. Possibly taking the fight to Lolth in the Abyss.
- Kiaransalee, one of the drow Goddesses, has been after Orcus's domain for a very long time. She could cause some great trouble now that Orcus is temporarily out of the way. If you can get your hands on the old Dead Gods adventure from Planescape, it should have some things to say about this.
- Post-apocalyptic Faerun does sound like a lot of fun, doesn't it? Go with your original idea. There's a way to justify ANYTHING. Just think on it a bit.

[Randomthom]

Perhaps Orcus could deliberately get himself captured by one of the surface world orders who oppose him who then imprison & bind him to the material plane, perhaps in Watchers Keep where Demogorgon himself was once bound by the Helmite Knights of the Vigil, see Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal's Watcher's Keep dungeon for more info. Prior to his capture & imprisonment however, he would have set up contingencies for his escape. Vampires well-placed to assasinate the Helmites who are making the wards etc. So he can Orcustrate (see what I did there) his escape after the failed demon incursion. Perhaps you could even include clues to his activities in deliberately foiling the plans of the other Demon lords, undead seemingly helping the heroes or at least not hindering them as much or similar.

There's also plenty of scope here for an Alhoon lich (mind flayer lich!) as a chief servant of Orcus and honestly, who doesn't want the chance to use a monster like that? If you're heading towards lvl 20 then you'll need a decent few sub-bosses along the way. You could even, just to keep things fresh, have the heroes discover Orcus' plan soon after the end of OotA but have to convince/fight/steal from the Helmites to get a magical macguffin item that will gain them entrance to the first level of Watcher's Keep. A good, rare opportunity for a non-monstrous, non-evil 'enemy'.

Further, perhaps the Helmites could counter-persuade the PCs to simply help them make Orcus' imprisonment more permanent as you'd expect followers of 'The Watcher' to do. I'd then subvert this by having things start to wither and die within a large (~50 miles) radius of the keep. Animals that die return as undead, plants become monstrous undead versions of themselves. All will provide a constant unrelenting army for the watchers to deal with. Even their own will become diseased and their dead will be powerful servants of Orcus. Depending on how long the heroes take to get to Watcher's keep, it may already be too late and the prison may simply be just a necropolis & Orcus' base of operations from which to begin his purge of life on Toril.

I'm expanding on this idea because a) it's cool, b) my players will also probably want to continue towards level 20 and c) I'm about to start a 3-player OotA too. There's got to be 5 levels worth of stuff in there! :)

[Falcon X]

So he can Orcustrate (see what I did there)
And a great groan rose from the Abyss.

I like this idea of Orcus being caught by humans. Maybe do a whole King Kong showcasing in front of crowds.
Biggest question is of foreshadowing.
- Do you make it out of the blue? The PCs might notice that Orcus is missing from the final battle and start asking questions. A good DM could make it obvious.
- Do you have him captured at Gauntlygrim? I couldn't see Bruenor doing that. However, if you read the Drizzt novels, you will know that Gromph Baenre fled to Gauntlygrim after summoning Demogorgon, and between him and Cattie-Brie they might think capturing Orcus is a good idea.
- How about Waterdeep? Probably too many casters there for him to personally get very far, but I just like the Godzilla effect of it. Maybe if enough minions come to suck the brains out of the Waterdavian defenders...

[DwarvenGM]

Hey guys a lot of great feedback. I really like the idea of Orcus getting himself caught. My original idea was him using the ability to summon 500 hp worth of undead daily to grab a few liches on day one then massive amounts of skeletons to search for ingredients for a protection spell to save him from the ritual used to nab the others.

But you guys are giving me a lot of better ideas so far

[DwarvenGM]

What is the mind flayer/Illithids involvement in this plan?
How does Lolth fit into also this (it was her idea to bring the demons lords to the Underdark after all)?

I personally like the books suggestion about heading into the Abyss to fight Lolth as a "after the adventure" suggestion. My biggest worry with your idea is filling five levels of interesting content against Orcus (I think Faerun is kind of boring).

So I would sketch out what this final stretch looks like into five parts, one per level. Where do the players begin each chapter, and where should they end?

Also I'm not sure about the mind flayers I may skip them all together.

In my mind the patience and ambitious nature always made Orcus a threat to Lloth making it hard to control or anticipate him so this would be an in Forseen glitch in her plan.

And the last 5 levels I still need to brainstorm that. Maybe they spend those isolating and hunting his generals or something. Still not to sure on that part though.

Thanks a lot for the input it is helping getting me thinking