creating a half pixie/half faerie dragon

[lylsyly]

I haven’t played since 2E. I have been invited into a 3.0/3.5 Campaign and am looking for help developing an unusual character. The party needs a Thief and could use some Ranged Combat help. PCs and Major NPCs are Gestalt Characters so I can combine two classes to help fulfill the group’s needs. The stack of books I was handed include ALL 3.0/3.5 (I think!).

I am thinking Rogue/Ranger (or Scout) and then using Racial tricks to improve both thief and combat abilities. The character will start at level 5 so I don’t think LA will be an issue (if I am reading everything right!?!). I am also willing to go to bat with the DM about a little creative bending of the rules to get anything I deem reasonable.

Lylsyly “Lil’ Silly”
Female half Pixie/half Faerie Dragon Martial Rogue/Scout Gestalt

Abilities Total Modifier Rolled(9+1d8) Pixie -/+ ½ Dragon -/+
STR 14 +2 10 - 4 +8
DEX 18 +4 10 +8 0
CON 18 +4 16 0 +2
INT 20 +5 12 +6 +2
WIS 19 +4 15 +4 0
CHA 21 +5 15 +6 +2

WOW! Great scores, if I did it right. About the 9+1d8 thing, that’s the way I was told to roll it by the DM.
I am sitting here ? the half dragon modifiers (from MM). For a Faery Dragon (from Draconomicon) +8 STR??

Using Savage Species the values I get for a Faerie Dragon are:
STR +2
DEX +8
CON +2
INT +4
WIS +6
CHA +6
And the Values I get for a Pixie are as listed above:
STR - 4
DEX +8
CON 0
INT +6
WIS +4
CHA +6

Okay, am I screwing up by the numbers or should I just apply the half dragon template to the pixie?

I am getting a headache, lol.

Please help.

[Telonius]

EDIT: Yes, you'd just add the Half Dragon template to a Pixie. ... stats to follow.

From Pixie:
-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma.

From Half Dragon:
Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2

For a net of:
+4 Str, +8 Dex, +2 Con, +8 Int, +4 Wis, +8 Cha

That does seem pretty good ... except for the Level Adjustment. You have a +4 level adjustment from Pixie (+6 if you get the Irresistible Dance part), and +2 from Half Dragon. Applying Level Adjustment to a gestalted character is not something that's spelled out in the rules, so you would have to get your DM to rule on how that works.

[lylsyly]

I suppose it would really be breaking the rules to use Swift Ambusher to stack Rogue and Scout levels for skirmish damage since this is actually a gestalt?

Martial Rogue to get all the archery feats quickly and maybe Mystic Ranger for some spell casting?

I have until Sunday to figure this all out up to level 5 AND figure out the new game mechanics as well, too bad I have to eat too ;>

[lylsyly]

EDIT: Yes, you'd just add the Half Dragon template to a Pixie. ... stats to follow.

From Pixie:
-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma.

From Half Dragon:
Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2

For a net of:
+4 Str, +8 Dex, +2 Con, +8 Int, +4 Wis, +8 Cha

That does seem pretty good ... except for the Level Adjustment. You have a +4 level adjustment from Pixie (+6 if you get the Irresistible Dance part), and +2 from Half Dragon. Applying Level Adjustment to a gestalted character is not something that's spelled out in the rules, so you would have to get your DM to rule on how that works.

The net is what I applied to the rolled scores, biggest question was Draconomicon states faerie drag with +2 STR.

MM list half dragon LA has base creature +3

oh well, add the half drac template it is.

a thief with greater invisibility, flight, optimized for archery, LOTS of skill per level, hmmmm...
(all while gleefully rubbing his hands together)

Thanks

[Telonius]

Whoops, mixed that up with CR adjustment - yeah, should be +3 not +2.

[nedz]

Half-Fey / Dragon is a pretty solid combo — rather than the other way around. I think you can stick this on one side of a Gestalt ?

You are trying for two threats though and this meets neither.

Look at Beguiler and Spellthief instead of Rogue. Spellthief has some issues, but Beguiler is solid. Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10 would give you lots of spells and sneak attack.

There are more complex builds involving Warlock or Swordsage — a Warlock dip for a ranged touch sneak attack delivery vehicle and some goodies; Swordsage for lots of tricks — YMMV.

Half Fey (2) / Warlock 3++ // Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 { then Unseen Seer 10 } might be more interesting.

[lylsyly]

Half-Fey / Dragon is a pretty solid combo — rather than the other way around. I think you can stick this on one side of a Gestalt ?

You are trying for two threats though and this meets neither.

Look at Beguiler and Spellthief instead of Rogue. Spellthief has some issues, but Beguiler is solid. Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10 would give you lots of spells and sneak attack.

There are more complex builds involving Warlock or Swordsage — a Warlock dip for a ranged touch sneak attack delivery vehicle and some goodies; Swordsage for lots of tricks — YMMV.

Half Fey (2) / Warlock 3++ // Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 { then Unseen Seer 10 } might be more interesting.

Perhaps some dipping would be in order but not this time I think.

being new to the d20 mechanic and all these options I am going to keep this one has it is.

Martial rogue gives me the fighter feats needed to optimize the archery and keep the thieving skills the group needs.
Mystic ranger with a scout dip to get skirmish and Swift Hunter (or Swift Ambusher?) to add some damage and AC bonuses and some druidish spells since their is no-one in the party that has any.

All this is complicated enough for now. I haven't played since '02 or '03 and that was all OD&D, BECMI, 1E and 2E.

[Deadline]

You won't be able to fit Half-Dragon Pixie into level 5, unfortunately. The LA alone is +7 at a minimum, which means that a 1st level Half Dragon Pixie Rogue would be the equivalent of an 8th level character.

A couple of questions probably need answers first before we can really start helping you out here:

1. How does your GM do LA in gestalt? I've often seen it as only taking up one side of the gestalt, which can work ok.

2. How familiar are you with how Level Adjustments work?

[lylsyly]

You won't be able to fit Half-Dragon Pixie into level 5, unfortunately. The LA alone is +7 at a minimum, which means that a 1st level Half Dragon Pixie Rogue would be the equivalent of an 8th level character.

A couple of questions probably need answers first before we can really start helping you out here:

1. How does your GM do LA in gestalt? I've often seen it as only taking up one side of the gestalt, which can work ok.

2. How familiar are you with how Level Adjustments work?

After I posted the above I got on the old landline (yeah, some of us geezers actually still have one) and talked to the DM and we're going to make up a racial level chart and run it on one side of the gestalt so that when I start out I will have 7 racial levels on one side and Martial Rogue 4 / Mystic Ranger and or Scout 3 on the other.

edit: on the other hand sticking to just martial rogue on the other side till I am thru with the racial levels WILL let me ramp up Archery faster.

[nedz]

Mystic Ranger, with the obligatory 3 levels of Scout for Swift Hunter, will make a better archer than Martial Rogue. Archery is feat intensive but you only really need PBS and Rapid Shot. The Ranger's full BAB will get you more attacks sooner.

Clerics make the best archers BTW and are also a very good 1 level dip. Elf Domain can get you PBS for free, and there are plenty of other options.

[lylsyly]

Mystic Ranger, with the obligatory 3 levels of Scout for Swift Hunter, will make a better archer than Martial Rogue. Archery is feat intensive but you only really need PBS and Rapid Shot. The Ranger's full BAB will get you more attacks sooner.

Clerics make the best archers BTW and are also a very good 1 level dip. Elf Domain can get you PBS for free, and there are plenty of other options.

I am using Martial Rogue to get the thief skills AND the feats. DM nixed Mystic Ranger due to Dragon Magazine being the Source SO it will be all Scout and the swift ambusher I guess.

This is my first time with 3.5 and I am like on option overload with all these source books (I counted 58):smallannoyed:

I appreciate everybodys help

[lylsyly]

I tried posting the LA / Racial Progression chart we came up with here but the formatting was way off.

Is there a text editor out there that will maintain it's formatting when I copy/paste into the Forum?

[lylsyly]

here is what the DM and I came up with (- the actual racial class chart)

Pixie is LA +4 and Faerie Dragon (Draconomicon) is LA +2 which gives me 6 Racial Levels to work off.

Hit Dice?? MM1 list fey at 1d6, Draco list Faerie Drac at 8d12, Savage Species show all the racial classes at 1d8 so that is what we went for.

Oh, did I mention flight! Pixie is 60ft with good maneuverability and Faerie Drac is 100 ft with perfect maneuverability
SO splitting the Difference gives us a fly speed of 80 ft. and we will go with Good Maneuverability

Okay, now for Character Classes. The Group needs a lock picker/trap finder and a ranged melee combatant (Archer)

Okay, A word about BAB, Draconomicon list the Faerie Drac at 8 HD and BAB +8 so it MUST qualify for FULL BAB so that is what we went with for the Racial Levels (some of the examples in Savage Species also do this).

Why Martial Rogue, you ask? Because it gives me the class skills and skill points to be the thief AND gives me the bonus feat to flesh out Archery skills to the max.

Okay, I do need Backstab to qual for swift ambusher (STACKS ROGUE AND SCOUT LEVELS INSTEAD OF RANGER/SCOUT), but I still am not giving up the Martial Rogue. Instead a 1 lvl dip into spellthief (also gives me steal spell as a Special Ability ) hmmm, sneaky huh? So

L1 Gestalt is Racial Class 1 and Spellthief 1
L2 Gestalt is Racial Class 2 and Martial Rogue 1
L3 Gestalt is Racial Class 3 and Scout 1
L4 Gestalt is Racial Class 4 and Martial Rogue 2
L5 Gestalt is Racial Class 5 and Scout 2
L6 Gestalt is Racial Class 6 and Scout 3

This is where I start Play. NOW I Qualify for the Swift Ambusher Feat!!!

L7 Gestalt is Martial Rogue 3 and Scout 4

NOW instead of skirmish damage being +1d6, +1AC it is +2d6,+2AC

AND NOW I qualify for the Improved Skirmish Feat adding +2d6 and +2AC to each skirmish attack

L8 Gestalt is Martial Rogue 4 and Scout 5

NOW instead of skirmish damage being +2d6, +2AC it is +3d6,+2AC due to level stacking, but wait, Improved Skirmish brings it to +5d6, +4AC

Five more levels takes me to Skirmish +5d6, +5AC which is at level 19 for Scout, of course that will be +7d6, + 7AC with Improved Skirmish

FEATS
L1 (Beginning) Point Blank Shot
L2 (Bonus Martial Rogue) Rapid Shot
L3 (Level) Precise Shot
L4 (Bonus Martial Rogue)Dodge
L5 No Feat
L6 (Level) Mobility
L7 (Scout Bonus) Improved Skirmish
L8 (Martial Rogue Bonus)Shot on the Run

By this point I have also added 2 point to DEX assisting my to hit, AC, and Initiative.

My Ability Scores are (as Rolled): STR 10, DEX 12, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 15, CHA 15
(After Racial Modifiers and Level Increases): STR 8, DEX 20, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 21, CHA 21

So, I can pick locks, find traps, and shoot arrows REALLY well. Did I mention that I can Fly? And attack while remaining Invisible? And cast a few Spells? Did I mention I am resistant to spells, can see in the dark, Smell enemies, and breathe water?

And if you REALLY piss me off, I’m gonna call mother and have her bring ALL my Fey friends. Won’t that be fun? ;>

I know I have done more than 1 thing wrong. I am way into Infooverload on this trying to bounce thru different books for different things.

<lament> Whatever happened to 3d6 rolled 6 times and go bash some heads? <\lament>

LOL