PDA

View Full Version : A new take on Asmodeus (complete with Wild Sheep Chase reference)



CowardlyPaladin
2016-09-08, 08:12 PM
This is my version of Asmodeus, inspired by all of the existing version and designed in part to make him less obnoxiously perfect. I have a complicated relationship with this character because he is a lot of fun, but he tends to be sort of Villain Sued (is that a term) in various media with him being THE ultimate force of Evil rather than being must one out of three major forces of evil, and his tendency to always win and never fail makes him come off as less interesting than his minions (incidentally my main problem with the otherwise excellent Dicefreaks Gates of Hell).

So I decided to make my own version who incorporates elements of the Planescape, 3.5, Pathfinder, 4th Edition, Green Ronin and Dicefreaks version of the character while having my own unique spin. The two major secrets of the characters are spoilers marked with a warning. There might be some references to my game, if there is any confusion message me. For example, Fiends in my game are another group of Evil Exemplars who represent Pure Evil and want evil to be one big happy family (basically like the IFCC but as a race). This is a shorter version, you can find a full version here (http://dicecast.tumblr.com/post/146317727634/asmodeus-lord-of-the-nine-secrets-and-true-back) So without further ado, Asmodeus, the Lord of the Nine

"See the King, stay the King, a'ight? Everyone stay who he is" - D'Angelo Barksdale, the Wire

No conversation about the Outer Planes can go on for long before Asmodeus comes up, normally in such a way that is intrusive and unpleasant for all involved, for the Lord of the Nine Hells is a singular figure among Planar Lords. Obviously all Planar Lords are beings of great power and prestige, but Asmodeus is unique in how much his personality shapes his plane, after all the Abyss is only slightly changed without Orcus or Demigorgon, but The Nine Hells without its Lord is unrecognizable, the entire domain is shaped by his whims and eccentricities, as the other 8 lords serve only at his pleasure. Beyond Hell itself, his influence can be felt on numerous other planes. The almost all of the Rulers of the Grey Wastes are vassal kings for the Nine Hells and Perdition, serving as a buffer states in the Blood Wars, while Archeron is ruled by four great Exiles of Hell. So much of the Planar world traces back to his influence, and the story of Hell in particular seems to be an endless catalogue of “Asmodeus won”.


First Secret: The True Position of Asmodeus
NOTE: The Following is a secret only known to some of the most powerful beings in the multiverse, specifically only 11 entities not counting Asmodeus himself are away of this and they aren’t sharing. The Players discovering should only be the culminating of a major campaign.

There is a reason why Asmodeus is able to so effortlessly play his minions off each other, and forever avoid external forces from interfering, he doesn’t actually have a job, and therefore has plenty of free time. The position “Lord of the Nine Hells” is not absolute dictator, hell is after all Feudal not Autocratic and it comes with some hefty limitations. Once Asmodeus was able to claw his way to the top of the Infernal Food Chain, he discovered the horrific truth of the Nine Hells, namely that it doesn’t really need him for anything. Hell is a vast machine, and like the Abyss has a primitive sort of sentience of its own, and so largely continues pursuing its aims regardless of who is technically in change. Asmodeus does believe that the Blood War is a stupid waste of time that needs to end or at least reduced but as previous mentioned, Asmodeus true command over hell is…over stated. Hell has its own machinery, rules, and systems that are fully automated, which continue moving alone regardless of its leaders whims. Asmodeus could openly violate its commandments, but doing so would break the laws which would make him vulnerable to his subordinates, and so spends his time trying the impossible task of learning and mastering all of Hells needlessly complicated laws in the hopes of achieving true mastery, as his descent into Law from Chaos can indicate. This does allow him plenty of free time to keep his subordinates from rising up against him
Until he learns all the laws, Asmodeus is only the puppet to a mindless system, but those laws are so convoluted and byzantine that even an immortal genius such as himself cannot fully comprehend them, but only with complete command of those laws can Hell’s directives be changed. For most of the major tasks of Baator are done automatically, the armies are maintained and led by the system itself, not the leader, and so the Blood War continues with or without Asmodeus involvement, Hell’s borders are secured, and the soul hunt continues. All Asmodeus really has any true control of is propaganda and his own position in Infernal Politics, and it is too that he dedicates all of his time. That is why he is so impossible to defeat, for unlike the other Lords, he doesn’t have to actually run anything, and can dedicate his full time to keeping his inferiors in line. Asmodeus’s rise to power came in part due to his desire to ramp down the Blood War and focus on Consolidating Infernal forces rather than throwing them away to the Demons, he figured without the Devils to unite them, the Demons would fall in upon themselves. Heady with his visions of reform, he rose to the position as the Lord of the Nine only to discover the horrible truth. The Machine of Hell had long ago Determined that the Blood War was to be the directive of hell and regardless of Asmodeus’ wishs, the machine will simply continue with hits infernal path. For in truth, Hell is not any individual, but the system itself, a machine, and all individuals, even one as exceptional as Asmodeus, will be subsumed by the will of the law itself, cold, uncaring, and collective. If you are detecting themes of the Wire, you are totally correct.





The True Origin of Asmodeus
Asmodeus is in many ways, the perfect Devil. Starting from the bottom as nothing more than a Lemure, through hard work, wits, and treachery was able to rise through the ranks on top a pile of stabbed backs. Eventually he was able to rise through the Infernal Bureaucracy, finally becoming the Chancellor of Hell itself, and personal assistant to the Lord of the 9th. Then in the Infernal Usurpation, he was able to overthrow Dios and become the new Lord of the 9th, and has ruled Hell since then. Asmodeus is well known for his brilliance, his cunning, and his charm, but above all is the fact that he is a massive troll who has spent the last few millennia screwing with his minions for ****s and giggles. Here is a list of Asmodeus actions writ large
• Organizing a coup against yourself in order to test your minion’s loyalties, and then punishing the only loyal person.
• Regularly rewarding and promoting the lord of the 8th who has openly declared he wants to kill you and depose you
• Appointing a non-devil in charge of a layer for a period of time, and while your minions are confused secretly make up with and then promote your daughter
• Appointing the killer of your wife as the lord of a layer of the plane
• Making Lillith in charge of something for a time.
• Overthrowing a Benherit for creating a child, and then doing that exact action yourself.
Doesn’t...doesn’t that….well...doesn't that seem kinda….you know...chaotic?

The Even Greater Secret of Asmodeus.

Not counting the man himself, only 9 creatures in the entire multiverse are aware of this information, and some of them don’t even know that they are, and the full story would only make sense if you spoke to all of them. None are major figures in Planar events, and none are aware of how valuable their knowledge is, the reveal of this knowledge would forever change the nature of the Outer Planes, the Blood War, and the Multiverse. DM only.
So what is the true Origin of the Lord of the Nine? The Truth is, Asmodeus himself doesn’t know…but some creatures do. Ancient evils dwelling in secretive black libraries remember a time before Asmodeus rose to power, and should some clever man combine the knowledge between those ancient tombs, they could find the truth that even Asmodeus himself has forgotten. The trick to learning the truth is to find the records of his actions in hell, and in that one can discover what he was before he started his rise up the Infernal ladder.
Asmodeus is indeed a Fallen Being, but those old tales never make any mention of kindness, of empathy, of love before he fell from grace, only war and destruction. For the true Origin of Asmodeus isn’t found in Heaven, but instead in the Abyss.
The truth of Asmodeus, lost so long ago that even he doesn’t remember it, is that the Lord of the Nine Hells is not a devil at all, but instead is…a demon. A fallen demon to be precise, from a time when such a thing could still be possible, a single demon among trillions on one of the layers, a Serpent of Chaos in the remains of a long dead garden, Asmodeus (he was known by a different name back then of course) was a savant among his kind in the ways of chaotic magnificence. Asmodeus fought a stint in the blood war, served various Demon Princes, even fought off a Daemonic incursion. The Serpent was noted for his brilliance, charm, and unabashed creativity and many felt he could have become a powerful prince in his own right if he wished it. However, he found himself longing for a higher purpose, a greater calling, to understand himself, and so he journey to the Inferno to speak among the Fiends, the learned scholars of evil itself. He proved an able student and in the great universities of evil his name was spoken with a mix of awe and concern, for while Asmodeus was a great student, he showed little interest in rejecting his chaotic nature, and still scoffed at law. He did delve into the soul forging magics of the Fiends, creating himself his infamous humanoid form still seen today, but still he did not shape his fundamental being, in fact he regularly spoke out that the Fiends should make an effort to wipe out the Devils, who only interfered with evil’s nature. In his thesis presented to the Fiendish deans, Asmodeus argued
· As most evil fights among themselves, infighting is inherent to the nature of evil.
· As Demons outnumber other evil exemplars combined by a wide margin, Demons should be seen as the standard bearers of evil.
· The Blood War is a foolish waste of time that distracts the Lower Planes from taking over the rest of the world, in particular destroying good.
· Thus the Blood War must be put aside, as the Heavens must fall before evil turns on themselves.
· As the Devils are the lesser party in terms of numbers, it is their influence which is keeping the war continuing. Thus, the Nine Hells must be destroyed.
· But this destruction cannot be a devastating one, that would only be continuing the Blood War, instead it must end in a swift and decisive manner, with minimal causalities. Some intrepid Demon who hopes to do what is best for evil should take over the leadership of Hell in a coup, turning the machines of hell to his own purposes.
· After that, it would be ideal to turn Hell against the Heavens, abandoning the Blood War entirely, and let the Nine Hells destroy themselves weakening the Upper Planes enough to the point that the Abyss could finish them off.
He concluded that in for this coup to work, a Fiend must infiltrate the devils, rise through the ranks, and assassinate Dios to become the new lord of the Nine Hells, and rely on the Devils blind loyalty in order to shift the course of the war. The Fiends rejected this idea as stupid and full of the dumb, and so, in a move that surprised nobody, Asmodeus volunteered to do it himself. With a small band of loyalists (mostly younger idealistic fiends) he remade himself that he was almost entirely a devil, except for a tiny spark at his center, his core, which would still remain part of the Abyss. This core resembled a horrid blood clot, pulsating with hate, brilliance, creativity and above all mass murder. His fiendish allies infiltrated other ranks of the hells and would help him rise to the top. Using the Fiendish soul magic, they were all altered so that they could pass as devils, and that they could never reveal another of their own number no matter how agonizing the torture, and they joined the Infernal ranks. At first his natural talents were able to get him through most of the Infernal ranks, after which he had to rely on his greater ability with treachery and his networks skills to eliminate rivals, ensure promotions, and gather for himself his own information network and resources. Once he reached the rank of Pit Fiend, he started to rely more and more on his creativity, and Asmodeus was quickly known as one of the most unpredictable entities in the Hells, slippery as a serpent and with a silver tongue to match. When it came to Asmodeus, expect the unexpected. His loyal spies also defied expectations by prioritizing somebody’ else ambition over their own, so great was their belief in the cause, and Asmodues was able to rise ever higher and secure even more power. But at long last his advance stalled, and he needed to be more creative, and thus his first great act of treachery came, he turned over his own spy network, reporting to Dios that he had found a band of Fiendish spies hoping to assassinate him. They were diligently rounded up, tortured, and destroyed but they were never able to reveal Asmodeus’ involvement, and he was able to continue rising until finally he was able to organize a coup to take over the Hell itself. At long last, Asmodeus had secured himself the position as the Lord of the Nine Hells. The Demon’s victory was seemingly secure.
But it was not to be. In the millennia it took him to rise through the ranks, he had to become more and more like those who he infiltrated, adopt more and more lawful methods, and adopt a more and more Lawful Mindset. His ambition took a higher prority than his vision, and the youthful idealism of winning the Blood War was replaced by cynical self-interest. After realizing that he couldn’t simply command Hell’s machinery as he once thought, he focused his attention on learning the Laws of Hell and keeping his own position, and as time went past, he was subsumed more and more by his role, until the Demon was gone and only Asmodeus was left. The moment of final change occurred when he wrote up the new contract of hell, and through grammer nazi legal speak, subtly changed his title, making himself not the Lord of the 9th as Dios had been, but the Lord of the Nine, establishing his position as the overlord of all Baator, which is why his spy network is so good by the way/ This fine print bull**** was the last act of lawful evil his core could take, and the Blood Clot that made up his Abbysal core simply vanished, and only Asmodeus remained. It is rumored that the Blood Clot dwells in the brain of a sheep, but that is a story for another day.
He has gone so far into character that he has lost not only his ideals, but his own identity, Asmodeus himself doesn’t remember being a Demon, he has no memory of the Inferno institutions, he doesn’t even remember his old name, for he has always Asmodeus he has always been the Lord of the Nine Hells. The only remnant of the Abbys is a small spark that provide him with a degree of chaotic creativity and love of trolling that has served him sell in keeping the other Lords at bay, but Asmodeus is indoctrinated, and nobody has been home for a long, long time.
however, a task all the more important as it helps keep his growing dementia in check. In his quest to keep power, he can display far more creativity and well…chaotic behavior than he normally does, which keeps himself from being completely subsumed by Hell itself, and allows him a glimpse at what he once was. So now he just ****s with his minions, because that is the largest actual threat to his position, and his massive free time can keep them at bay. More importantly messing with his minions holds the existential horror of his existence at bay, because hey I turned Baalzebul into a slug, how cool is that?
This indoctrination style memory loss is part of why Asmodeus has seen fit to insert himself into the stories of others, subsuming the tales of four gods and three cosmic beings thus far; Asmodeus himself honestly doesn’t know his own past, depending on the day he believes himself to have once been a part of the World Serpent, other times he distinctly remembers being an Archon fighting against the Demons, and other days he remembers being a being of Law. All he knows is that he is associated with being a Serpent, he wasn’t always the Lord of the Nine, and that he was once a different type of being than he is today, for Asmodeus knows in his heart of hearts that he is changed in some fundamental way, and even by the standards of Devils he is now empty inside.
The rare few who can gain access to this information would do well not to underestimate Asmodeus, while his memories might be fading and he isn’t the true ruler of hell, he is still extraordinarily dangerous, after all he was able to work his way up to the Lord of the Nine Hells largely by himself, relying on his own abilities. As fabricated and exaggerated his false biographies might be, the core of those stories are largely true. Asmodeus is, even by planar standards, a savant at almost every he tries his hands at, and be it politics, war, manipulation, knowledge, experimentation, magic, or espionage. In addition, his own combat abilities are devastating, while being the most powerful spell casting devil, he also is a skilled swordsmen and has numerous unique powers in his own right, to say nothing of those granted him by his position. He hopes to eventually end the Blood War, but in the meantime he has proven himself a horrifying proponent of it, even on a few occasions taking the field himself. And among the Lower Beings, he is one of the very few who can say that he has never been solidly defeated, which is more than the Overlord, Lucifer and even Satan himself can claim. Don’t underestimate him.


Rumors of the Lord of the Nine

The origin of Asmodeus is subjected to much speculation, and there are multiple conflicting versions, all of which are difficult to find and bring great risk. This hasn’t stopped scholars from looking, employed by the other Lords of the Nine, the Demon Lords, to the rulers of the Upper Planes, for too truly understand Asmodeus, one must understand his past. Problem is, that’s almost impossible. Asmodeus is above all, an enigma, a being whose goals and motivations remain mysterious to all, finding out his history has proven to be extremely frustrating to scholars of the Outer Planes. Generally speaking, most of the Cosmic Beings have fairly consistent backstories buried away in long forgotten libraries, even if the details vary, the broad themes tend to be rather consistent.
But Asmodeus has proven to be utterly frustrating in this regard, because their simply isn’t very much material to be found on his history, and what is found is flat out contradictory. His various back stories can be broken down as.

1) He was one of the three great lords of the Courtals dwelling with his brothers in Arcadia, all aspects of the now deceased World Serpent, he, Jazirian and Ihys however he slew his brother Ihys, and fled to rule hell because he wished to create an empire on the Material Plane that would force mortals to worship the Upper Planes. However saavy observers have noted that this very much resembles the back story of the god Ahriman, and Jaziran and Ihys are both gods, not Planar lords, so it would be weird that Asmodeus wasn’t a deity.

2) That he was once a servant of a powerful good deity known as “He Who Was” and defected to become his own entity by slaying his former master. But upon close examination this resembles the entity known as “The Princes of Darkness” who is not an Alignment being what so ever, in fact he isn’t even Lawful, and scholars are fairly certain it was this ex Servitor who slew “He who was”

3) That he was a powerful elemental lord of Fire named Kador who was the favored of a supreme God, but proved to be arrogant and now lives in opposition to mortal races in the hopes of returning to his former place of power. Of course, Kador is again, a living deity of fire who is seemingly independent of Asmodeus (in fact he dwells on the Elemental Plane of fire. So his being the same as this Kador is…strange. Others have noticed this resembles the creator of Neutral Evil, Iblis, which can’t possibly true as Iblis is a Primal Force, not a Planar lord and is you know…Neutral Evil.

4) That he is nothing more than an Avatar of a powerful being of Pure Lawful Evil known as “The Overlord” and that he is in fact a sock puppet just like Malkira, and possibly Sataniel. This is a very popular theory except…the Overlord dwells in Perdition, not the Nine Hells, so such a placement would be…strange to say the least. Also Asmodeus and Sataniel despise each other even as they are allied together. This might indicate that the Overlord is so powerful and cunning that it is secretly controlling multiple planes but if so than the Overlord is more powerful than any other singular Alignment entity. This is the most agreed upon theory by scholar (albeit it is not widely known) but many dismiss it as propaganda, after all it would serve Asmodeus interest to seem like he is secretly controlling all of the Outer Planes.

5) That he was a fallen Archon who fought against the Demons for so long that he and his troop slowly but steadily took on the physical properties of those same beings, all necessary in order to defeat the Demonic Hoards, and now believes that the ends justifies the means in destroying the forces of Chaos and Evil. However again, this version strongly resembles the backstory of an existing entity, specifically Satanial, current Lord of Perdition and the heir of Lucifer, though this possibly refers to the fabled Queen of the Ancient Baatorians (records are unclear this far in the past). Also this legend often attributes the Pact Primeval as being Asmodeus’ plan, which has been definitively proven to be absolute bull.

6) That he was in fact an Ancient Baatorian, a being of Law and Evil who betrayed his own kind to establish rule among the devils. . Later he forged the Pact Primeval as a way to overthrow Satanial and establish himself in his new domain as the lord of the Nine Hells. This is a particularly popular one, but again is simply wrong, because that is the back story of Dios Morgenstern, the lost Prince of Baator who betrayed his own kind to take power, only to be overthrown by Asmodeus himself, and now is hiding in the Infernio. Considering how Asmodeus relates to the Ancient Baatorians, this is unlikely, there are a few records to indicate that where ever he came from, it wasn’t from Baator.

7) That he was always the ruler of hell, in fact he was the first devil, from whose blood all of the others are descended, and he has ruled Hell for all time. This legend normally has Asmodeus be a being of Pure Law, corrupted by the Baernaloths to represent the ideal of Lawful Evil, and the Blood War is his way of trying to prove that his evil is the superior form. This is almost certainly propaganda however, as numerous accounts indicate of a time before Asmodeus ruled hell, in fact of a time before Hell even existed, to say nothing of the Ancient Baatorians.

8) Another tale is that he started as an ancient deity who failed his pantheon in some profound way, and was banished to Hell to serve as the bringer of punishment to others for all eternity, so that he might serve as an example to others of that long forgotten pantheon. While this backstory isn’t a blatant rip off of somebody else story, it is also suspicious generic, and highly unlikely, I mean the Hells predate most Gods, a mere god is the ruler of Hell? That is kind of unlikely.


9) That Asmodeus was originally a lord of the Div, created when Kador cursed one of the fruits of Divinity, and hopes to eventually wipe out the gods themselves and violate everything that mortals love. However this seems to easily refer to the current Lord of the Div, Druaga, who seems to have ruled over the Div since the beginning of time, so this doesn’t really add up. And again, Asmodeus focuses his attention far more on the Blood War than the workings of deities.



How does he keep power?


These nine (and of course it is nine) backstories seem to be largely contradictory and of course are all likely lies, after all they all seem to refer to other entities who are still alive and well, unless they are all nothing more than aspects of Asmodeus, which is a bit too horrible too contemplate. Some of the most ancient scholars believe, that while all of these stories are lies, the truth lies between the lines, in the common themes of all the stories.

NOTE: this is like super high level scholarship, even knowing one backstory of Asmodeus often requires extremely dangerous searching of secrets, so discussions like these tend to only happen between immortals. Average PCs will not know any of these backstories and if they are aware of Asmodeus, he will simply be the Lord of Nine who has always been there. If any truth can be found in these stories, it can only be found in finding the commonalities between these stories. Namely A) Asmodeus was not always the ruler of the Nine Hells B) He wasn’t always a devil, but was instead some other being who fell to evil C) He was a trickster being who deceived some great power while in the form of a serpent. But considering how much misinformation Asmodeus himself deliberately puts out, it is unlikely that anybody knows the truth beyond Asmodeus himself. In truth, none of those stories are true, Asmodeus deliberately inserts himself into other historical events/legends in order to make discovering his true identity more difficult, for the truth is even more horrifying (see below, the True Nature of Asmodeus)

Asmodeus, whoever he was, overthrew the previous lord of the Nine Hells (whose identity might be Malkira, Dios, Sataniel, Lucifer, or Satan, though most agree it was Dios) then established himself as the Lord of the Nine Hells. The rest of his time has seemingly been messing with his minions, and messing with the leadership of the Lords of the Nine. Sammael was replaced by Baalzebul as lord of the Seventh, replacing lord of the 4thAdrammelek with Belial with Adremalech becoming lord of the 9th, as Belial later had to share power with his own daughter Fernia. He has had particular fun with the 6th layer, after destroying Beherit and Batna, he replaced them with Lillith who in turn was replaced with Moloch, who in turn was replaced by the Hag Countess, who in turn was replaced by his own daughter Glasya. Stranger still is his rule of 5th layer, the treacherous Levistus was replaced by an even more Treacherous Leviathan, who was in turn replaced by the loyal Geryon, who as punishment for his loyalty during the Reckoning of Hell was overthrown and replaced by Levistus. All the while Asmodeus remained secured on his throne, above the petty politics of his minions, and even when there was a cohesive effort to overthrow him such as the Reckoning of Hell, he was able to emerge stronger than ever. The history of Hell is just an endless series of plots, overthrows, and deceptions that all seem to change remarkably little with Asmodeus always still on top, and Mephistopheles always right below him as Lord of the Eight.

A close examination of his methods however, reveals a certain method to his madness. Asmodeus is always working hard to ensure that none of his minions ever get fully comfortable in the system, that every time one or another of his lords starts to build up a powerbase and start to feel comfortable with the rules of Hell, Asmodeus trips them up by introducing some new element into Infernal politics that they must respond too. Every time a Lord is replaced, the other lords must spend some time, often centuries, learning how to respond to the new comer and adjusting their plans to accommodate for their presence, only for some other disruption to emerge and waste their time again. As his minions hate each other too much to synchronize information, Asmodeus is thus able to stay in power forever. With such a brilliant mind controlling Hell, surely his plans outside of Baator must be equally brilliant…well yeah, about that.





Any comments or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks

CowardlyPaladin
2016-09-10, 03:14 AM
Any comments or feedback would be much appreciated

khadgar567
2016-09-10, 03:25 AM
so much text only thing I understand is you depromote asmodeus to common infernal lord with loki like scheming ability ant giving hell auto control of eternal stagnation so in your world you can force pc to create utopia am I understand correctly

Porthos
2016-09-10, 04:10 AM
A couple of comments.

First off, I REALLY like this concept on the whole. I've never liked the Villain Sue theory of the Big A since it does, as you say, make him more than a bit boring. I mean, say what you will about The Lady of Pain, but at least she's enigmatic and mostly hands-off. That goes a LONG way to softening her own Sue Status.

My one comment right off the bat is more a formatting one. I would put in some paragraph breaks to make it a little easier to read.

Spoilers for the rest:

I absolutely love the idea that Asmo is a 'Fallen Demon'. It's a unique twist, or at least one I haven't seen before. And it does explain some of his more... unique personality quirks.

I'm not entirely certain, however, you've completely banished the Villain Sue aspect of him. I mean, yes, by the write up he can never achieve his ultimate goals (ending the blood war or establishing mastery of Hell ['s laws]). At the same time, he is still probably the most successful singular being ever in the multiverse. So he's got that going for him.

That being said, giving a reason for his current success, namely his free time, is also rather good and does seem to minimize things quite a bit. And there are hints that his failure is gnawing at his being, which is also something I don't see very often. And that could be a lever against him if things go right. Or horribly wrong, for that matter. :smallwink:

So, for the most part I really like this. Especially the piss-taking over the Pact Primeval (which I never liked).

I'm not entirely sure how this would be used in a campaign. Perhaps how other movers and shakers will react to either bits and pieces of The Truth. Or maybe a bit more realistically how various folks will react to Asmodeus' machinations. In other words, this doesn't so much affect Asmodeus but everyone else ensnared in his plots or fighting against him, if you see what I mean.

Might make some more comments later as I digest this, but I think the central concept is a great one and it has quite a lot of room for exploration. At the very least it gives an interesting take on the character and one that can be used in a setting for the motivations of the Big A.

CowardlyPaladin
2016-09-13, 06:00 PM
A couple of comments.

First off, I REALLY like this concept on the whole. I've never liked the Villain Sue theory of the Big A since it does, as you say, make him more than a bit boring. I mean, say what you will about The Lady of Pain, but at least she's enigmatic and mostly hands-off. That goes a LONG way to softening her own Sue Status.

My one comment right off the bat is more a formatting one. I would put in some paragraph breaks to make it a little easier to read.

Spoilers for the rest:

I absolutely love the idea that Asmo is a 'Fallen Demon'. It's a unique twist, or at least one I haven't seen before. And it does explain some of his more... unique personality quirks.

I'm not entirely certain, however, you've completely banished the Villain Sue aspect of him. I mean, yes, by the write up he can never achieve his ultimate goals (ending the blood war or establishing mastery of Hell ['s laws]). At the same time, he is still probably the most successful singular being ever in the multiverse. So he's got that going for him.

That being said, giving a reason for his current success, namely his free time, is also rather good and does seem to minimize things quite a bit. And there are hints that his failure is gnawing at his being, which is also something I don't see very often. And that could be a lever against him if things go right. Or horribly wrong, for that matter. :smallwink:

So, for the most part I really like this. Especially the piss-taking over the Pact Primeval (which I never liked).

I'm not entirely sure how this would be used in a campaign. Perhaps how other movers and shakers will react to either bits and pieces of The Truth. Or maybe a bit more realistically how various folks will react to Asmodeus' machinations. In other words, this doesn't so much affect Asmodeus but everyone else ensnared in his plots or fighting against him, if you see what I mean.

Might make some more comments later as I digest this, but I think the central concept is a great one and it has quite a lot of room for exploration. At the very least it gives an interesting take on the character and one that can be used in a setting for the motivations of the Big A.



Sorry for the late response, I was in the hospital for a bit so I only now can start responding. I am going to try to figure out how to format this better, but the forum seems to resist my attempts to indent.


I'm glad I found somebody who agrees with me on Asmodeus' Sue qualities, reading Fiendish Codex II and Dicefreak's Gates of Hell I was just like "yes, I get it, Big A is awesome and everything is secretly according to his plan, can I leave now?" Which also made me resent the character.

I see what you mean by the Villain Sue thing, my thinking was that Asmodeus is the most powerful LE Exemplar and unlike the Abyss or Abadon, Hell has a linear command structure, so he should individually be a major threat who is seriously worth contending with for players, my idea was that he is one of those major threats who never seem to change there place, very stagnant. He is always a powerful dangerous cunning ruler of hell but over the centuries he basically remains that, rarely expanding his power, so unless you really piss him off or you are involved in Infernal Politics, he is more of a regional power with really good PR.

Also my major reason for why he is able to dominate the other Lords of the Nine so effortlessly is not just because of his copious amount of free time (and the fact that he is actually the Lord of the Nine not lord of the Ninth), but because as a Demon he is far more creative than his minions. Devils are inherently technocratic creatures and for all of their brilliance they aren't very imaginative and get flustered easily when confronted with true creativity. So Asmodeus just thinks differently than anybody else in Hell, which allows him a massive advantage in his home domain, but actually makes him not so effective against the Demons themselves. He is the most creative Devil, but the least creative Demon, and if he involved himself in Abyssal Politics he would get chewed up and spit out in short order, because she just doesn't have the ability to mach the non linear thinking of the Demons. Luckily for him, he doesn't have to deal with them internally but externally, which largely leaves them in a stalemate



Actually here are some ways these two secrets can be used on a game

Your right that this doesn't really change him, it changes way people respond to him. Some ideas that I have come up with so far.

The Former Lord of the Sixth (or rather the first Lord before that position became Hell's Defense Against the Dark Arts Position) Beherit was exiled for creating a child, Lucifurge, and was the only Lord of the Nine to personally infuriate Big A. This turns out to have been because the magic necessary to create a Child required a small amount of Abyssal magic, for it is Chaos that can create life. Asmodeus himself would use similar magic to create Glasya later, but Beherit living in Exile in the Inferno believes that Asmodeus has been dabbling in forbidden Demonic magic and that Glasya is in fact part Demon (he doesn't suspect the Truth)

Glasya (more info here (http://dicecast.tumblr.com/post/118799560519/lord-of-the-6th-glasya)) in my version isn't just a spoiled princess because I find that sooooooooooooo boring, instead she is in many ways the ideal Devil, but with the tiniest hint of Chaotic Magic from her father which gives her a cunning to allow her to rise above her peers. I based her on Prince Hal from Henry IV part 1, specifically that she is a cunning manipulative face stealer whose "rebellious" phase is nothing more than a deception to make herself be underestimated. LIke Hal she is an amazing rhetorician who can inspire people to love her and speaks of "reforming Hell" making it no longer Feudal but instead something more akin to Fascist, a strict centralized organized regime with a clear chain of command rather than the contradictory disorganized system of Nine Lords of a single realm. Of course, like her Father should she ever take power she will find herself equally unable to make proper reforms, and so she currently represents the metaphorical nature of reform in a corrupt system, the hope that things might change when of course it never will. Again, I really like The Wire

Mephistopheles is actually the "true" ruler of Hell in that he is the most powerful LE being with no touch of Chaos, and that is why he is so frustrated being the second in command, he is doing everything right..

Do you have any ideas on how the Planar folks might respond to Asmodeus' behavior? I know if the truth came out it would cause a massive Civil War as the Devils would want to kill Asmodeus for being a Double Agent and the Demons would want to kill him for being a traitor.


I actually never found the Lady of Pain annoying because she doesn't seem to have motivations. She maintains Sigil and...thats it. So as long as you don't break her laws, she is extremely easy to ignore and she doesn't seem to have any ambitions towards the larger world. So she doesn't actually have as many "just as planned I am simply the best and most awesome thing in the multiverse" moments that Asmodeus seems to regularly churn out, and she certainly isn't the power behind the throne of like...everything the way that the Overlord is

I love your comments btw, if you have any more that would be much appreciated, this was a great help. Thanks a lot

CowardlyPaladin
2016-09-13, 06:03 PM
so much text only thing I understand is you depromote asmodeus to common infernal lord with loki like scheming ability ant giving hell auto control of eternal stagnation so in your world you can force pc to create utopia am I understand correctly

....sorry what?

Bohandas
2017-01-18, 06:40 PM
• Organizing a coup against yourself in order to test your minion’s loyalties, and then punishing the only loyal person.

My headcanon for this is that they all filled out some official form declaring intent to betray and the punishmemt resulted from not following through on said official notice.

CowardlyPaladin
2017-01-18, 08:09 PM
My headcanon for this is that they all filled out some official form declaring intent to betray and the punishmemt resulted from not following through on said official notice.

Betrayal is one thing, but refusal to follow the rules is just unacceptable

Bohandas
2017-01-18, 09:06 PM
The backstory given here is like a reversed version of Graz'zt's backstory (as of 4e). So to satisfy the rule of threes we need a third arch-exemplar with a flipped alignment (possibly NE to NG).

King539
2017-01-18, 09:44 PM
This.

Is.

AWESOME!

CowardlyPaladin
2017-01-19, 08:43 AM
This.

Is.

AWESOME!

Thanks :) Any particular feed back, stuff you like specifically? Or are you just a fan of Myrakami

Bohdanis, what happened with Grazz'zt?

Bohandas
2017-01-19, 12:46 PM
Bohdanis, what happened with Grazz'zt?

I heard that in 4e Graz'zt's back story is that he was either a soldier or spy from Baator who went native some time after reaching the Abyss

CowardlyPaladin
2017-01-19, 03:04 PM
I heard that in 4e Graz'zt's back story is that he was either a soldier or spy from Baator who went native some time after reaching the Abyss

Huh, thats interesting. Shame he didn't come from teh Daemon realm cause they it could be easily symetrical, the Abyss>Hell>Abaddon>The Abyss

JoshuaZ
2017-01-19, 03:46 PM
This is really well done, and I like it is a lot. It might make sense to post it over to the Worldbuilding subforum since it seems to be very much up their alley.

CowardlyPaladin
2017-01-19, 05:16 PM
This is really well done, and I like it is a lot. It might make sense to post it over to the Worldbuilding subforum since it seems to be very much up their alley.

Huh that is a good point, should I just repose this there or ask this to be moved?

Debihuman
2017-01-23, 08:36 AM
I like this. The reason for the different cosmologies for Asmodeus come from every edition in D&D reinventing itself, every updated book on the subject reinventing itself, and Pathfinder taking it in a different direction so as not to impinge on WotC. It's complicated. It's messy. It is also a lot of fun.

Debby

CowardlyPaladin
2017-01-25, 08:07 PM
I like this. The reason for the different cosmologies for Asmodeus come from every edition in D&D reinventing itself, every updated book on the subject reinventing itself, and Pathfinder taking it in a different direction so as not to impinge on WotC. It's complicated. It's messy. It is also a lot of fun.

Debby

Yes, to me a lot of fun is found in trying to synchronize all of these different versions into a coherent whole, that is kind of what my game is based on honestly.