Just a quick Kamen Rider question.

[Metahuman1]

Hey, so, I'm about to have an NPC in a game show up. He's been hired by the PC's to create a loud, colorful diversion that will draw lots of attention so they can sneak in some place. It's a supers game.


So, I'm thinking of introducing them to "Kamen Rider: Parody!".(KRP) :smallbiggrin:


Thus leading to my question. I know over in Super Sentai, it's common for the team, in suits, to transform, strike a pose, and explosions go off in the back ground. I'm thinking of having these positioned when KRP does this, the blasts actually take out some gear and REALLY get's the bad guys attention as a result.

The question is, is this a thing Kamen Rider is known to do (Doesn't have to be every rider/every season/all the time. Once in Awhile or Showa Era or Heisi Era only works too.), or is this just a Super Sentai thing?

[Anonymouswizard]

My experience is mainly Heisei, but in general there aren't explosions when a Rider henshins.

Some Riders do pose, it depends on the series, and some riders have elaborate sequences of movements before they henshin. The first pose of Ichigo's henshin sequence is well known, but it's more elaborate, and Fourze's henshin sequence has him pause during a short countdown (and his 'it's space time' pose is simple but to me is iconic). In recent series Gaim has a couple of complex pre-henshin routines, and Drive had Mach occasionally doing a long introduction, but no post-henshin explosions.

I think this has to do with how the transformation sequences work, in that they're now generally realspace instead of cutting to a coloured background, and are visually fairly interesting. For the record, I personally am annoyed with Ghost for introducing a stock footage transformation for Mugen.

So the sequence is pose->flashy transformation->pose, with no explosions. However, transformation effect have been indestructible since Blade, and sometimes can actually hurt enemies on their own, so if you want you can always do something with that (there's lots of videos of henshins on YouTube).

For what it's worth, my favourite Super Sentai series is Go-Busters, which uses realspace transformations and no explosions. I suspect the Super Sentai explosions might be because the target audience is younger than that for Kamen Rider, it's certainly the impression I get.

[Metahuman1]

Darn. Alright, what about Showa Era Riders?

I just need a few of them, doesn't matter if there all the same Rider. Doesn't matter if it's like, Rider 1 or some such.

[Gastronomie]

I suspect the Super Sentai explosions might be because the target audience is younger than that for Kamen Rider, it's certainly the impression I get.This is true. Going a bit off-topic, but Kamen Rider was originally created to be a series for a mature audience (the original version has lots of gore and violence). After the toys of the Hensin Belts and stuff became popular among children, it gradually shifted to become enjoyable for both children and adults, but even after that, Kamen Rider continued to have a generally darker tone than the Super Sentai (which was created for children in the first place).

I'm Japanese myself, but even when I was a child (they were airing Ryuki and 555 and stuff back then) I recognized the dark feel of the Kamen Rider series. Compared to how people rarely die in Super Sentai, in Kamen Rider, a lot of innocent people are killed, and at times there's also an "evil Kamen Rider" - like Asakura Takeshi (Ouja) from Ryuki. At times it was too scary for me as a kindergartener to watch, especially when the bodies of the people who were killed by monsters turned to ash in 555.

As a child, I liked Super Sentai better, with all the random explosions and simple plots that even children can understand. Nowadays I've rewatched Ryuki again and found it to be an amazing, compelling series (that's obviously un-understandable by children).

So, if you're going to make a parody involving explosions, have the guy hire a bunch of similar friends and go Super Sentai.

(Kamen Rider does certainly involve a good number of explosions, but generally that's when the enemies are defeated, not when somebody just appears.)

[Metahuman1]

That's, interesting. I was always under the impression that Kamen Rider's Showa Era was darker then Super Sentai's Showa Era, but that it wasn't really really dark until it got into some of the Heisi Era series like Kabuto or Wizard.


Course, I was also under the impression that at times Super Sentai could get quite dark when it was motivated to do so. Tended not to do it as frequently as Kamen Rider, particularly since Rider hit it's Heisi Era, but that it could, and did, do it at times.

Edit: i'm not disagreeing with you, I have basically no hands on experience with Rider source material, but I'm just a touch confused.

[Anonymouswizard]

This is true. Going a bit off-topic, but Kamen Rider was originally created to be a series for a mature audience (the original version has lots of gore and violence). After the toys of the Hensin Belts and stuff became popular among children, it gradually shifted to become enjoyable for both children and adults, but even after that, Kamen Rider continued to have a generally darker tone than the Super Sentai (which was created for children in the first place).

Oh yes, and I've discovered that, in general, the more mature a Kamen Rider series is the more I can enjoy it. I really want to watch the original series all the way through, Ichigo and Nigo are awesome characters, but I don't speak Japanese and it doesn't look like it'll be translated soon.


I'm Japanese myself, but even when I was a child (they were airing Ryuki and 555 and stuff back then) I recognized the dark feel of the Kamen Rider series. Compared to how people rarely die in Super Sentai, in Kamen Rider, a lot of innocent people are killed, and at times there's also an "evil Kamen Rider" - like Asakura Takeshi (Ouja) from Ryuki. At times it was too scary for me as a kindergartener to watch, especially when the bodies of the people who were killed by monsters turned to ash in 555.

Oh, yes, I'll go so far that early-mid Heisei is the darkest Kamen Rider really was until Amazons came along. Ryuki and 555 are two of my favourite series (the third is Drive, because I got invested in the plot from episode 1 and Chase's death was really well handled). I do understand that some series can be hard for a kid to watch, I think Kamen Rider might be aiming it's demographic too young and should become a series aimed at teenagers or young adults so we can go back to the dark plots and have it be as complex as it used to be, and I'm waiting to see if there's going to be an official DVD release of Amazons over here (the other series are basically not going to be exported, which is a shame because I'd love to buy subbed DVDs).


As a child, I liked Super Sentai better, with all the random explosions and simple plots that even children can understand. Nowadays I've rewatched Ryuki again and found it to be an amazing, compelling series (that's obviously un-understandable by children).

So, if you're going to make a parody involving explosions, have the guy hire a bunch of similar friends and go Super Sentai.

(Kamen Rider does certainly involve a good number of explosions, but generally that's when the enemies are defeated, not when somebody just appears.)

This is all true. I actually have a real problem when watching Super Sentai in that it's too simple, and seems to rely too much on 'awesome' to attract the viewer. I do suggest going with Sentai if you want a quick parody with explosions, with Kamen Rider what you'd parody is actually a lot more variable (Showa is different to early Heisei which is different to late Heisei).

EDIT: Super Sentai can get dark, but it never does a series as dark as the early Heisei Kamen Riders. Kuuga is very realistic for a Kamen Rider show, there's only 20-something monsters in it but every monster succeeds in killing many victims, often over a hundred. Agito is lighter, but still rather complex and gets darker when it needs to. Ryuki is very dark with a very human villain, was unable to have a truly happy ending, and most of the riders didn't care if monsters ate people. 555 features villains doomed to a short life, a hero who doesn't truly want to be the hero at first, and there's many communication problems (actually fairly understandable in context). Blade is when the series started getting lighter, and even then you have the main character turning himself into a monster.

[Fri]

Kamen Rider Black, the last of showa rider, is noticeably often described as darker and serious rider (of showa), though still noticeably a children show obviously. Though, Old Kamen Rider Amazon rip his enemies limbs and head!

The inter-era movie (Shin, ZO, J), are literally mostly monster movie! No seriously, check this clip from Shin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7TF0KUxnXA

The first Heisei rider, Kuuga, is kinda weird, since it's the first time people coming to Kamen Rider after a while, and it's infamous for the HUGE amount of casualties there. Dozens if not hundreds of civilians die per week. And it's not "they got swatted away and presumably die," it's the exact premise of the show, and reported by the police in the show, how the monsters kill civilians for ****s and giggles basically and "this week twenty people died in X city" and whatever. It actually kinda calmed down after that series.

Kamen Rider Black's transformation though, specifically can hurt enemies. That's because it's in the premise of the series, he can transform because he's originally destined to be the leader of the monster army, and got implanted the "kingstone" which is a super powerful source of energy that can do whatever. Mostly it can be used to transform, but it can also power things IIRC, and also can be used to directly destroy enemies, though it's not his standard arsenal. Basically the equivalent of "opening the nuclear reactor's shield and using the radiation to kill enemy."

Kamen Rider Super-One's elaborate transformation sequence is also a plot point. It's been a long time, but what I remember from my childhood is basically, Super-One is a man-made cyborg intended for space exploration (his bike is actually also a space eva vehicle). The lab was attacked by bad guys for one reason or another, but he can't activate the transformation yet (or not taught yet, or it's not perfect yet), and everyone died. He spent the episode learning how to do the elaborate transform sequence. For a while, he has to do the elaborate sequence to transform, but later on I think he can do it without.

Though don't be trapped by saying "kamen rider is not for kids." It's still for kids, though for maybe slightly older kids who moved from thinking colorful robots are cool to scarves and bikes are cool. Except for Shin. That craziness is specifically for "adults who used to watch kamen rider as kids."

[Anonymouswizard]

Though don't be trapped by saying "kamen rider is not for kids." It's still for kids, though for maybe slightly older kids who moved from thinking colorful robots are cool to scarves and bikes are cool. Except for Shin. That craziness is specifically for "adults who used to watch kamen rider as kids."

Don't forget Amazons, there's no way that's for kids (and is also awesome). I do think it should be retooled for an audience slightly older again so they can get away with more than standard series, although if we end up with the standard for kids series and Amazons as one aimed at adults I won't be complaining, I love Amazons.

Although I really wish someone would do a dub of Kamen Rider for the English and American markets. Just change the dialogue slightly and I'm sure you could get away with marketing something like Ghost towards younger teenagers. I did once meet someone who loved the 'Masked Rider' series when he was the kid, and Dragon Knight is a decent show, but I have a feeling that Kamen Rider could take off without the Power Rangers treatment (although I'll understand if they don't want to use 'transform' as the translation for Henshin).

Still, I'll at the very least watch Amazons again when the official release happens, with that I will survive.

[Gastronomie]

That's, interesting. I was always under the impression that Kamen Rider's Showa Era was darker then Super Sentai's Showa Era, but that it wasn't really really dark until it got into some of the Heisi Era series like Kabuto or Wizard.

Course, I was also under the impression that at times Super Sentai could get quite dark when it was motivated to do so. Tended not to do it as frequently as Kamen Rider, particularly since Rider hit it's Heisi Era, but that it could, and did, do it at times.

Edit: i'm not disagreeing with you, I have basically no hands on experience with Rider source material, but I'm just a touch confused.Well, when Kamen Rider was in production, it was originally scheduled to be aimed for a really mature audience. And it was sorta like that for the first few episodes.

According to the Japanese Wikipedia:

During the first season of Kamen Rider, the mature atmosphere and horror theme of the series was not accepted well, and Fujioka Hiroshi (actor of Hongou, the first Kamen Rider) suffered severe injuries during filming, the creators decided to make Kamen Rider Nigou appear, as well as introduce new themes and charasteristics such as the Henshin poze, a sidekick, and a generally more upbeat story. This became extremely successful, especially among children, and the viewing rates of the series exceeded 20%.* After Hongou returned with his injuries recovered and it became possible for the Kamen Rider duo to be introduced, the viewing rate exceeded 30%.*Not written in Wikipedia, but it should be noted that at this time, Japan had quite a lot of children and not so many adults. Birth rates weren't a problem back then, like they are now in Japan.

So it seems that at first it was so gritty that no one wanted to watch it, so they had no choice but to change it to become more "aimed at children".

But even after the change, they sorta kept some mature elements, which are still passed on from generation to generation - the most iconic one being that all the Kamen Riders derive their powers from their enemies. Ichigou and Nigou were mutated by Shocker, making this really easy to understand, but it goes for all the serieses in the franchise. In the Heisei Era, the Ryuki riders are those who made contracts with the Mirror Monsters, the 555 riders are actually Orphenocs themselves, and so on.

Thus, Kamen Rider is not a simple story of "Good V.S. Evil". It's a story about "Evil V.S. Good that originated from said evil and still uses evil powers, only for justice". The vile powers bestowed upon the Rider by the enemies is exactly what the Rider uses to kill the villains. The Rider would have succumbed to evil if not for his willpower. That's the sort of hero a Kamen Rider is.

In a way, the evil riders who started appearing in the Heisei Era (Asakura = Ouja being the prominent example) are important, evolved factors in the franchise, given how they represent "what happens when people without a heart of justice gain the powers of a Kamen Rider".

[Fri]

In a way, the evil riders who started appearing in the Heisei Era (Asakura = Ouja being the prominent example) are important, evolved factors in the franchise, given how they represent "what happens when people without a heart of justice gain the powers of a Kamen Rider".

You forgot shadowmoon :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

Well, when Kamen Rider was in production, it was originally scheduled to be aimed for a really mature audience. And it was sorta like that for the first few episodes.

According to the Japanese Wikipedia:
*Not written in Wikipedia, but it should be noted that at this time, Japan had quite a lot of children and not so many adults. Birth rates weren't a problem back then, like they are now in Japan.

So it seems that at first it was so gritty that no one wanted to watch it, so they had no choice but to change it to become more "aimed at children".

But even after the change, they sorta kept some mature elements, which are still passed on from generation to generation - the most iconic one being that all the Kamen Riders derive their powers from their enemies. Ichigou and Nigou were mutated by Shocker, making this really easy to understand, but it goes for all the serieses in the franchise. In the Heisei Era, the Ryuki riders are those who made contracts with the Mirror Monsters, the 555 riders are actually Orphenocs themselves, and so on.

Thus, Kamen Rider is not a simple story of "Good V.S. Evil". It's a story about "Evil V.S. Good that originated from said evil and still uses evil powers, only for justice". The vile powers bestowed upon the Rider by the enemies is exactly what the Rider uses to kill the villains. The Rider would have succumbed to evil if not for his willpower. That's the sort of hero a Kamen Rider is.

In a way, the evil riders who started appearing in the Heisei Era (Asakura = Ouja being the prominent example) are important, evolved factors in the franchise, given how they represent "what happens when people without a heart of justice gain the powers of a Kamen Rider".

Interesting. I know the second Sentai Series, JAQK (or is it JAKQ?), had a similar problem, doing a lot of harder hitting crime drama type stuff then the first and most of the subsequent early Sentai Shows like GoRanger did, and that ended up not going over well. So much that the totally changed it a few weeks into broad cast, brought in a 5th ranger, and significantly dumbed it down, and it still didn't work so it got canceled fairly quickly, particularly by Sentai standards. (Sentai I'm starting to get a bit of familiarity with since Shout Factory is actually importing them meaning I can get them, with accurate sub titles and decent quality video all things considered, legally.).



My impression was that Kamen rider tended to teach a somewhat more practical morality in Heisi Era. Kamen Rider 000 had "Ok, you need SOME ambition and SOME desire for things and advancement and the like, cause having 0 is incredibly bad, but you also need to keep it and check and not let said Ambitions and Greed Rule you either. Moderation on that front, don't go to either extreme." (Of the odd clips I've seen here or there, I actually think I could get into that one. Note: I know the premise because someone at a Con explained it too me when he was doing a Cosplay of it a few years back. No, I didn't get a chance to get pics, my phone was acting up at the time. If this is incorrect, please, correct me.)

The using the bad guys powers against him thing makes sense. Feels like a Samurai Drama or a Old Western. The Bad Guys have the same/very similar fighting styles and weapons to the good guys. It's not the tool, it's the person using said tool, there intentions with that tool, and there competency with that tool.





Hmmmmm, I don't suppose it would work if I had someone in the bad guys group go "Hey! Wait a minute! Kamen Rider doesn't do the poses and explosions cause of poses thing! That's Super Sentai that does that!" And just have the other badguys stop there attack for a second to, in unison, look at him like they are now torn on if they want to know how/why he not only knows that, but felt like sharing it right at that particular moment, or not?

Think that might work?

[ben-zayb]

IIRC, transformation explosions being used as weapon is only ever a schtick of Dynamen (used by Gokaiger, too, technically, of course).

[Anonymouswizard]

But even after the change, they sorta kept some mature elements, which are still passed on from generation to generation - the most iconic one being that all the Kamen Riders derive their powers from their enemies. Ichigou and Nigou were mutated by Shocker, making this really easy to understand, but it goes for all the serieses in the franchise. In the Heisei Era, the Ryuki riders are those who made contracts with the Mirror Monsters, the 555 riders are actually Orphenocs themselves, and so on.

Thus, Kamen Rider is not a simple story of "Good V.S. Evil". It's a story about "Evil V.S. Good that originated from said evil and still uses evil powers, only for justice". The vile powers bestowed upon the Rider by the enemies is exactly what the Rider uses to kill the villains. The Rider would have succumbed to evil if not for his willpower. That's the sort of hero a Kamen Rider is.


I'm going to expand on this for Heisei and Neo-Heisei, beware of spoilers in the following folder.
-Kuuga is essentially turning into a Grongi, and part of the show is the Grongi trying to prove that humans are the same as them. It ends with Kuuga and the big bad destroying each other's belt part way into their fight, and they finish the fight in their human forms.
-In Agito it's different in that the powers come from the big bad's old enemy and the villains are only targeting those with the potential for them.
-In Ryuki the advent decks were made by the big bad, and are powered up to a useful state by a contract with a mirror monster (also created by the big bad).
-In 555 Faiz is an Orphenoc, and both Kaiza and Delta have had Orphenoc DNA implanted in them, but are not Orphenocs. In addition the various gears used to transform are made by the villains, Smart Brain (although by their old leader, who's a good guy).
-In Blade the sealed forms of undead are used to activate their powers.
-Not sure about how it ties into Hibiki, I haven't seen it all the way through.
-In Kabuto the Zecters were created by Worms.
-In Den-O Kotoro can't fight without being possessed by an Imagin, although Yuuto can transform on his own.
-In Kiva Wataru is a fangire, while IXA is human-made. Well, Wataru is a half-fangire.
-I haven't watched Decade, but I believe his Driver was made by Dai-Shocker.
-In Double the good riders use purified forms of the Gaia Memories that monsters use.
-In OOO core medals determine OOO's form and are the core of Greeed. Birth uses Cell Medals, which seem to fuel Greeed.
-Not sure how Fourze deals with it.
-Wizard has one of the monsters living inside him, as does Beast.
-In Gaim the lockseeds are native to Helhiem and provide the power, and the Drivers were made by the evil corporation.
-In Drive it's inverted, all of the Villain's technology can be traced back to Krim Stienbelt. He created the Core Drivars which power the Riders and Roidmudes, the first of the drivers, the consciousness/personality uploading technology, and the Shift Cars. While Prof Banno thought highly of himself and actually made the Roidmudes themselves, nothing would have happened if not for Krim, who in the end was the more intelligent of the two.
-In Ghost the Eyecons used by Ghost, Specter, and Necrom are literally a variant of the ones that Ganma use to interact with the world, and the Drivers were made by a Ganma.

Also, as far as I can see, after the Shocker era, the powers are generally just powers (although not in Double), and don't have any influence on the user. Even back in the original series Shocker monsters had to be brainwashed separately from their power-granting procedures, which is how Hongo escapes.

I'm going on record in that I think Drive is probably the most mature series, due to the entire reversal and because most of the evil stems from good (the Roidmudes are desperate as they don't have the ability to create more of themselves, and their creator manipulated them into being evil). Baator, at several points it looks like Gou might become evil due to the powers or has joined the villains, but he always has the moral core not to. Plus I love Chase's arc, I'm fairly certain that he did copy an emotion at some point and it ended up as 'desire' or something similar.

EDIT: spot on for the moral in OOO, in Drive (which I'll be talking about it a lot, because it's my favourite bar none) the moral is effectively 'just because something is human it doesn't mean that destruction isn't justified'. You could very easily change Drive so that Heart was the hero and the whole things was a Tragedy of miscommunication and assumptions, his death is legitimately sad. One thing that becomes clear in Drive is that, if Prof Banno had just let his creations grow as people they would have just peacefully integrated into society, as Chase proves.

[Prime32]

But even after the change, they sorta kept some mature elements, which are still passed on from generation to generation - the most iconic one being that all the Kamen Riders derive their powers from their enemies. Ichigou and Nigou were mutated by Shocker, making this really easy to understand, but it goes for all the serieses in the franchise. In the Heisei Era, the Ryuki riders are those who made contracts with the Mirror Monsters, the 555 riders are actually Orphenocs themselves, and so on.

Thus, Kamen Rider is not a simple story of "Good V.S. Evil". It's a story about "Evil V.S. Good that originated from said evil and still uses evil powers, only for justice". The vile powers bestowed upon the Rider by the enemies is exactly what the Rider uses to kill the villains. The Rider would have succumbed to evil if not for his willpower. That's the sort of hero a Kamen Rider is.

In a way, the evil riders who started appearing in the Heisei Era (Asakura = Ouja being the prominent example) are important, evolved factors in the franchise, given how they represent "what happens when people without a heart of justice gain the powers of a Kamen Rider".
The using the bad guys powers against him thing makes sense. Feels like a Samurai Drama or a Old Western. The Bad Guys have the same/very similar fighting styles and weapons to the good guys. It's not the tool, it's the person using said tool, there intentions with that tool, and there competency with that tool.
IIRC there was some manga where Kamen Rider 1 said that they're called "Masked" not because their transformation covers their face (since many Riders just transform their bodies and/or have armor all over), but because a Rider's human form is their mask that lets them hide their freakish nature.

There was also that one crossover special where a lord-of-monsters type villain describes Kamen Riders as "those who failed to become monsters" and is capable of stealing their powers because they're evil in nature.

Ghost Rider would fit right in as a Kamen Rider, weirdly enough - the only thing he's missing is a flying kick.

That's, interesting. I was always under the impression that Kamen Rider's Showa Era was darker then Super Sentai's Showa Era, but that it wasn't really really dark until it got into some of the Heisi Era series like Kabuto or Wizard.Wizard isn't really that dark. Sure, the premise is "monsters are trying to create more of their kind by driving people to despair", but in practice the monsters can never seem to remember this and just attack people instead. Even the most intelligent of them would just crouch over their target while waving their arms and shouting "Let the fear of death drive you to despair!", unless they stumbled across a better route by accident. Wizard was not exactly known for its writing quality.
(That one arc with the hairdresser was genuinely dark though)

Also, heroes around the time of early Kamen Rider had a tendency of pulling insane stunts just to mess with their enemies' heads (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaJX3pBPXvs) (you can see some of this in Silver Age Superman comics as well).

Hmmmmm, I don't suppose it would work if I had someone in the bad guys group go "Hey! Wait a minute! Kamen Rider doesn't do the poses and explosions cause of poses thing! That's Super Sentai that does that!" And just have the other badguys stop there attack for a second to, in unison, look at him like they are now torn on if they want to know how/why he not only knows that, but felt like sharing it right at that particular moment, or not?

Think that might work?Pose-triggered explosions are an old-school thing. Making fun of an old-school Rider is generally not a thing you want to do if you like your spine.
Plus I assume they're meant to be a transforming hero inspired by Kamen Riders, as opposed to a literal Kamen Rider, in which case complaining about tropes specific to a single franchise doesn't really make sense (it would be like complaining "if you're a superhero, why can't you fly?").

Plenty of Riders still have a catchphrase they'll announce before entering battle, like Wizard's "It's showtime!" or Fourze's thing about space. Or there's an explosion as part of their transformation rather than afterwards (because Rider transformations are rarely stock footage, they can often be used as an impromptu weapon or shield, albeit rarely powerful enough to do anything more than get them some breathing room).

[Hopeless]

I was going to suggest Mumen Rider from One Punch Man but I don't think that's what you're asking about?

[Metahuman1]

Huh. Interesting. Not the gist I'd heard at all of Wizard. (My understainding was that Amazons, Gaime (Probably spelled that wrong, the Madoka-for-boys-by-dude-that-made-original-Madoka one.), Kabuto, Wizard and Ghost were particularly dark entry's.

Also, that is totally going to be a thing in a D&D game that I will do at some point now. I'm sorry, that's just to jaw dropping a stunt NOT to pull.



I'm not really making fun of it. I wanted to use Kamen Rider as it allows me to just have the one NPC, Kamen Rider just rolls off the tounge REALLY well during narration, and it's a Tokusatsu hero the party would at least recognize at a very, very basic level.

I'm more ribbing Tokusatsu at large just a little bit with this one. Remember, this NPC's job is to distract them for a couple of minutes so the party won't get noticed sneaking in. He's going to be accomplishing that goal, so it's not incompetence. It's just something that was so out of left field as a means of accomplishing that goal that no one could see it coming, and it's just goofy enough, combined with the surprise factor, to be funny.

It's intended to be like when a show spoof's there own genera. It's usually done affectionately, but just cause something is liked doesn't mean you can't give it a ribbing every so often, in fact that's probably healthy.



As for the explosion, it wouldn't need to actually beat them, just wreck some of there stuff and leave them standing there for a moment, focused on the blast and the guy in brightly colored oddly themed armor posing and making a speech, trying to process what in hell just happened/there looking at before they recover. During which time the goal of "let the party sneak in unnoticed." will be met.






Out of curiosity, are you guys all getting access cause your able to just speak Japanese? Or is there someone who puts out legit subbed DVD's I don't know about for the franchise? (If Wizard didn't go hard for darkness one sub arc none withstanding I wouldn't mind checking it out, and I'd kind of like to try watching 000 at some point as what I've heard about it makes it sound like I'd actually enjoy it.)

[Fri]

Kamen riders play in tv here. It was (or is?) the most popular tokusatsu in my country. We even got our own official kamen rider-ish tokusatsu (official as in, worked together by ishimori production).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfgMp9HXcc4

[Anonymouswizard]

I was going to suggest Mumen Rider from One Punch Man but I don't think that's what you're asking about?

The name and costume are a parody, but Mumen Rider himself isn't. He has the personality a couple of them have, but it varies a lot.


Huh. Interesting. Not the gist I'd heard at all of Wizard. (My understainding was that Amazons, Gaime (Probably spelled that wrong, the Madoka-for-boys-by-dude-that-made-original-Madoka one.), Kabuto, Wizard and Ghost were particularly dark entry's.

Not really. Wizard could have been dark, but completely missed the mark (even before you get to the point that, in the show itself, everyone who would have become a phantom regained hope and became a wizard instead). Kabuto had dark elements but was actually about average, it's nowhere near the darkest of the Heisei era.

For the really dark ones? Ryuki and Gaim, as well as Amazons (but that's specifically for adults), Drive could also get dark in places but in general it managed to remain relatively light. Ghost is all over the place, if Drive was 'generally light, but could get dark' Ghost swings between light and dark every few episodes, based on what will draw out the plot the longest (I swear, we've just had about 10 episodes where the almost big bad would show up, attempt to beat up the heroes, and leave). 555 and Blade are also dark series, and the official interpretation of 555's ending is that Takumi dies.

[/QUOTE]Out of curiosity, are you guys all getting access cause your able to just speak Japanese? Or is there someone who puts out legit subbed DVD's I don't know about for the franchise? (If Wizard didn't go hard for darkness one sub arc none withstanding I wouldn't mind checking it out, and I'd kind of like to try watching 000 at some point as what I've heard about it makes it sound like I'd actually enjoy it.)[/QUOTE]

I watch fansubs (primarily Overtime) because I don't have the free time to learn Japanese and I don't believe there's any official DVDs (Amazons might get one, and I hope it does). If I could I'd buy the official Japanese DVDs to support it, and then make my own subbed version, but I don't have the money to do so (read: I have basically no disposable income).

I anyone does know of plans for official subbed releases please inform me.

[Prime32]

Huh. Interesting. Not the gist I'd heard at all of Wizard. (My understainding was that Amazons, Gaime (Probably spelled that wrong, the Madoka-for-boys-by-dude-that-made-original-Madoka one.), Kabuto, Wizard and Ghost were particularly dark entry's.
[...]
(If Wizard didn't go hard for darkness one sub arc none withstanding I wouldn't mind checking it out, and I'd kind of like to try watching 000 at some point as what I've heard about it makes it sound like I'd actually enjoy it.)Wizard is definitely supposed to be dark, it just has terrible writing (it's often considered the worst Heisei series overall). The villains' plans make no sense, characters forget about their powers whenever they would resolve the plot too easily, and the characterization is weak. Good suit designs though.
One of the villain's generals orders a monster to attack a woman, then gets shocked when he sees her and jumps in front of the monster's attack (it's not clear why he didn't just tell the monster to stop). He and Wizard are swept away into a river together.

The general claims that he is secretly a human who retained his own mind after becoming a Phantom, as opposed to the other Phantoms who consumed their "parent" and are entirely separate beings. Because Wizard likewise awakened his own Phantom without being fully consumed by it, he sees him as a comrade, but is jealous that his body is still human. None of this has ever been hinted at before.

Some of the other characters investigate the general's past and discover that he was a hairdresser, who seemed to have had more or less the same personality. At the same time, the general has made contact with the woman. Then they discover a bunch of photos that look like the woman he's with, and realise that they all look like his dead girlfriend. The general offers to cut the woman's beautiful hair, and goes to get his scissors. They discover that all of these women disappeared under mysterious circumstances. The general returns with his scissors, and a crazed look in his eyes... then Wizard stops him before he can do anything, and none of this ever comes up again.

If by darkness you mean melodrama then there's very little of that - the characters are just surprised more than anything.

If you want something with a light-hearted hero, go for Den-O or Fourze. OOO and Double are also solid options.

Gaim isn't Madoka-for-boys, Madoka is Ryuki-for-girls. :smalltongue: (IMAGE CONTAINS SPOILERS) (http://www.kamenrider.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Ryuki_versus_Madoka_Oringal.jpg) It's definitely one of the better-written entries though - a lot of KR series really suffer from stretching things out too far, like turning every story into a two-parter even if there isn't enough material for one (which Wizard suffered from a lot) or trying to "foreshadow" a future plot by having it start over and over without context or progression (as Ghost was guilty of). Gaim is very good at continuously progressing the plot, and keeping things fresh without resorting to blatant retcons - it doesn't even use monsters of the week a lot of the time.


I'm not really making fun of it. I wanted to use Kamen Rider as it allows me to just have the one NPC, Kamen Rider just rolls off the tounge REALLY well during narration, and it's a Tokusatsu hero the party would at least recognize at a very, very basic level.

I'm more ribbing Tokusatsu at large just a little bit with this one. Remember, this NPC's job is to distract them for a couple of minutes so the party won't get noticed sneaking in. He's going to be accomplishing that goal, so it's not incompetence. It's just something that was so out of left field as a means of accomplishing that goal that no one could see it coming, and it's just goofy enough, combined with the surprise factor, to be funny.

It's intended to be like when a show spoof's there own genera. It's usually done affectionately, but just cause something is liked doesn't mean you can't give it a ribbing every so often, in fact that's probably healthy. Just call them something with "Mask" or "Rider" in it, then give them a bike, a transformation belt, and a flying kick finishing move. And have them shout "Toh!" whenever they make a big jump.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah, they, don't run it on TV here. Back in the 90's when Power Rangers was first getting big there was a short wave of other Tokusatsu shows that got bad adaptations from the same group trying to cash in. Like, 1 Kamen Rider series got adapted into a show that they just called "Masked Rider." that was so-so at best. It only lasted 1 season and was generally forgettable.

Apparently at some point they brought over something I've never seen called "Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight." which didn't do well either.

So, Fansubs. I'll have to look into that I suppose. (What honestly baffles me is that as popular as Anime is and as many different anime reference the franchise, Netflicks/Hulu, who are increasingly invested in "Foreign Drama's." haven't started picking up and running at least some of the Kamen Rider series. Hell, I think Hulu has GARO, which is even darker then Kamen Rider usually as I understand it. I can't imagine "Here, we pay to add subtitles, and then you get to get a second wave of money for people streaming this in the US and maybe going online to order the toys" would be unappealing to the producers or anything.)







000, Fourze, Den-O and Double. Gotcha. (Funnily enough, saw an image today for what is apparently the current Kamen Rider season. I, think they may have gone just a bit too far in the other direction looking at that costume. Just, just a tad.)




I was planning to feature the belt and the "Toh!" shout for the big jump as he makes his exit. Wasn't planning a lot of bike focus thought since it's just a short distraction.

[ben-zayb]

Just gotta echo Fri here and say Black (and RX), Amazon, and Shin, are the darker ones. Amazon gave me nightmares (although for comparison, Jetman did too, so YMMV)

Kamen Rider used to be shown in our local TV, although it's not that I actually tune in.

[Prime32]

I watch fansubs (primarily Overtime) because I don't have the free time to learn Japanese and I don't believe there's any official DVDs (Amazons might get one, and I hope it does). If I could I'd buy the official Japanese DVDs to support it, and then make my own subbed version, but I don't have the money to do so (read: I have basically no disposable income).

I anyone does know of plans for official subbed releases please inform me.On this, yeah, Over-Time generally have the best KR fansubs (though Gaim was handled by the related group Aesir). Avoid TV-Nihon - they frequently mangle important plot points and leave entire sentences in Japanese.


Yeah, they, don't run it on TV here. Back in the 90's when Power Rangers was first getting big there was a short wave of other Tokusatsu shows that got bad adaptations from the same group trying to cash in. Like, 1 Kamen Rider series got adapted into a show that they just called "Masked Rider." that was so-so at best. It only lasted 1 season and was generally forgettable.

Apparently at some point they brought over something I've never seen called "Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight." which didn't do well either.I've heard Dragon Knight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgfnzYgjW9E) was... okay. It was about as close to Ryuki (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hW7O3IF8qQ) as the average Power Rangers series is to Super Sentai, and the re-dub into Japanese seems to have been well-received (yes that is a thing that happens; Super Sentai does it all the time). Whereas Masked Rider (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UapMPX5iYc) (adapted from Kamen Rider Black RX (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_76uPUAgi4)) was pretty much disowned by its creators.

Beetleborgs was adapted from a Metal Hero (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Hero_Series) series, and VR Troopers was adapted from three Metal Hero shows edited together to make it look like their protagonists were a team. Superhuman Samurai Syber-Squad was adapted from Denkou Choujin Gridman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6nXAc4nw00), a spinoff of the Ultraman franchise.


So, Fansubs. I'll have to look into that I suppose. (What honestly baffles me is that as popular as Anime is and as many different anime reference the franchise, Netflicks/Hulu, who are increasingly invested in "Foreign Drama's." haven't started picking up and running at least some of the Kamen Rider series. Hell, I think Hulu has GARO, which is even darker then Kamen Rider usually as I understand it. I can't imagine "Here, we pay to add subtitles, and then you get to get a second wave of money for people streaming this in the US and maybe going online to order the toys" would be unappealing to the producers or anything.)I think it's a combination of viewers associating it with Power Rangers, parents associating it with Power Rangers and sending in complaints, the owners of Power Rangers being hyper-aggressive about their copyright (see Chroma Squad, which was forced to add "Inspired by Saban's Power Rangers" to its logo despite being modelled on Super Sentai tropes rather than PR ones), and lack of a market for the toys (even Power Rangers toys have to be redesigned and simplified from the Super Sentai models in order to turn a profit).

Maybe we'll get Amazons at some point though, who knows.
(In case there was any confusion, "Kamen Rider Amazon" was the Showa series with a Tarzan-esque Rider. "Kamen Rider Amazons" is a modern series loosely inspired by it, released on the Japanese version of Amazon Video and aimed at adults)

EDIT:

000, Fourze, Den-O and Double. Gotcha. (Funnily enough, saw an image today for what is apparently the current Kamen Rider season. I, think they may have gone just a bit too far in the other direction looking at that costume. Just, just a tad.)Apparently the suits and toys are designed first, then handed to the writers to build a series around. So while I don't have high hopes for Ex-Aid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FYbSc8CXuA), it could be the most serious Kamen Rider ever for all we know.

[Anonymouswizard]

Apparently at some point they brought over something I've never seen called "Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight." which didn't do well either.

Dragon Knight has the problem of the fact that, although it's good, if you're like me and loved Ryuki before trying it, you'll be constantly comparing it to Ryuki and being let down. I haven't watched to the end, but in quality it's closer to a series like Kiva (still well written an enjoyable) than something like Ryuki was.


So, Fansubs. I'll have to look into that I suppose. (What honestly baffles me is that as popular as Anime is and as many different anime reference the franchise, Netflicks/Hulu, who are increasingly invested in "Foreign Drama's." haven't started picking up and running at least some of the Kamen Rider series. Hell, I think Hulu has GARO, which is even darker then Kamen Rider usually as I understand it. I can't imagine "Here, we pay to add subtitles, and then you get to get a second wave of money for people streaming this in the US and maybe going online to order the toys" would be unappealing to the producers or anything.)

Wait, you can watch Garo 100% legally, but only in America? That's annoying, I love Garo, sure it's only 25 episodes/series but the effects are consistently good and you get either an enjoyable episodic series or one brilliant interconnected plot, based on whether the series is modern day or using the One Who Shines in Darkness setting.


000, Fourze, Den-O and Double. Gotcha. (Funnily enough, saw an image today for what is apparently the current Kamen Rider season. I, think they may have gone just a bit too far in the other direction looking at that costume. Just, just a tad.)

Do you mean Ghost or Ex-Aid? Ghost is current, and in general the suits are the best part of it (I love Necrom's). If Ex-Aid, yeah they look silly, but that won't matter if they have a good director and a good writer (and the writer apparently is Yuya Takahashi, who has written nothing I've seen, anyone know if he's any good?).

Den-O is partially a parody, I don't recommend watching it until you've seen a few others. Personally I'd recommend Double or OOO over Fourze, I just enjoyed them more (but then again, I don't particularly enjoy 'school superheroes' settings anyway).


On this, yeah, Over-Time generally have the best KR fansubs (though Gaim was handled by the related group Aesir). Avoid TV-Nihon - they frequently mangle important plot points and leave entire sentences in Japanese.

I agree with this. I think ironically the breaking point for me was not translating Belt-san, even though 'Mister Belt' fits perfectly. I think I've seen the TV-Nihon subs of Double and OOO, which where okay, but that was before I knew to check out the various subbing groups first.


Maybe we'll get Amazons at some point though, who knows.

I hope we will, it might let Kamen Rider finally break into the English-speaking market. Plus it was just awesome.


EDIT:
Apparently the suits and toys are designed first, then handed to the writers to build a series around. So while I don't have high hopes for Ex-Aid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FYbSc8CXuA), it could be the most serious Kamen Rider ever for all we know.

Yeah, personally I actually like the basic premise of the series, although I'm not fond of the video game aesthetic. I'm going to watch at least the first few episodes, because it's going to be hard for them to sink lower than Ghost in my eyes.

[Metahuman1]

So, I tried this overtime sight. Of the 4 Kamen Riders recommended, they only have 2, and I couldn't get them to download and/or play. Just for giggles since I was mildly interested I tried Shinkenger and Gokaiger from over in the Super Sentai section, and THOSE were uncooperative as well.


Is the site having issues? Is it just really super not Mac friendly? Is there another site I can use, maybe a streaming site?

[Anonymouswizard]

So, I tried this overtime sight. Of the 4 Kamen Riders recommended, they only have 2, and I couldn't get them to download and/or play. Just for giggles since I was mildly interested I tried Shinkenger and Gokaiger from over in the Super Sentai section, and THOSE were uncooperative as well.


Is the site having issues? Is it just really super not Mac friendly? Is there another site I can use, maybe a streaming site?

OT tends to only have the newer series, as to my knowledge they started relatively recently.

If downloading from their site then you'll get a Torrent file, so make sure that isn't your problem. The comment threads have a dedicated section near the top for direct download links, which for me have normally worked fine.