Find Steed for a Nightmare

[Feuerphoenix]

Hey fellas,

One question that came into man mind was concerning, whether you could get a Nightmare from the spell find steed.

My Charakter is a chaotic neutral drow, and about to reach lv 5. In my DM's eyes, they serve as appropriate mounts for drows, who are concidered "Evil". Thus I am asking myself, how you would have to change the stats, to make it an acceptable mount for this spell and level. You guys have any clue?

I was thinking about reducing the hitpoints to about 15hp and removing the teleporting feature.

[Razuchee]

As DM I would likely rule that you had to use a higher level spell slot, as well as having reduced Hp.

[MrStabby]

Isn't it a CR 3 creature? Conjure animals would get you a CR 2 Creature from a level 3 slot. Conjure minor elementals/woodland beings does the same from a level 4 slot. Giant insect can get you a CR 3 giant scorpion though for a level 4 spell slot (for 10 minutes).

Level 5 will get a CR5 elemental for an hour, so an upper bound there.

Find steed is an indefinite duration no concentration spell - to up the creature to a CR3 creature looks like at least a level 4 or level 5 spell. Possibly an alternative way to deliver this would be to add Planar Binding to the Paladin list so you can gen one this way. It would kick in at an appropriate level.

[JellyPooga]

Find Steed, at its base level 2 value, summons a creature approximating a warhorse. To get a Nightmare, I'm thinking you'll need to;

A) Use at least a 4th level slot, if not 5th.
B) Have previously contacted an appropriate Fiend.
C) Expend some kind of collateral to "purchase" it ("your soul" is traditional, but I'm sure the Infernal stablemasters would be willing to accept an alternative)

[MrStabby]

Find Steed, at its base level 2 value, summons a creature approximating a warhorse. To get a Nightmare, I'm thinking you'll need to;

A) Use at least a 4th level slot, if not 5th.
B) Have previously contacted an appropriate Fiend.
C) Expend some kind of collateral to "purchase" it ("your soul" is traditional, but I'm sure the Infernal stablemasters would be willing to accept an alternative)

Or take 6 months alone in a room with a Pegasus.

[DivisibleByZero]

Drow. Why not use Giant Spider? Or just change the astetics of your horse to have red eyes, smoking nostrils, and fiery hooves?
The mechanics don't need to change. Just the astetics.

[BiPolar]

And nightmares are pretty evil, as is their method of creation. Does a CN character accept that?

[Feuerphoenix]

Guys you missunderstood me. i don't want to change the spell that ist fits a nightmare But verse visa. Yes changing cosmetics is doable but this is like running arround with a fake product: it just does Not feel like a real one...

And this is why I want to adjust the nightmare to a warhorse lv maybe slightly better as you have a big disadvantage in a civilized enviroment.

[JellyPooga]

Guys you missunderstood me. i don't want to change the spell that ist fits a nightmare But verse visa. Yes changing cosmetics is doable but this is like running arround with a fake product: it just does Not feel like a real one...

And this is why I want to adjust the nightmare to a warhorse lv maybe slightly better as you have a big disadvantage in a civilized enviroment.

The big selling point of a Nightmare (visual FX aside) is that they fly.

Horses don't (as a rule).

I don't think you're going to reconcile these things without ramping up the CR and thus the cost in terms of spell slots, money or other resources. It's pretty much either re-skin a horse without any mechanical benefits or go all-out for an actual Nightmare.

As for the disadvantage in civilised environments; aren't you suffering those for being Drow anyway? If not, why not? Adding a horse-on-fire isn't really adding much to whatever disadvantage you should already be suffering.

[Feuerphoenix]

The big selling point of a Nightmare (visual FX aside) is that they fly.

Horses don't (as a rule).

I don't think you're going to reconcile these things without ramping up the CR and thus the cost in terms of spell slots, money or other resources. It's pretty much either re-skin a horse without any mechanical benefits or go all-out for an actual Nightmare.

As for the disadvantage in civilised environments; aren't you suffering those for being Drow anyway? If not, why not? Adding a horse-on-fire isn't really adding much to whatever disadvantage you should already be suffering.

Actually I completly overlooked the ability to Fly... :P of course a summoned mount is earth bound.

To the aspects of disadvantage: beeing a drow gives you at least some interaction with someone. If you come on a nightmare...well usually either they come with pitchforks or they flee

[DivisibleByZero]

If you come on a nightmare...well usually either they come with pitchforks or they flee

Um.... that's usually what happens when people see a Drow, Nightmare present or not.

[BiPolar]

Actually I completly overlooked the ability to Fly... :P of course a summoned mount is earth bound.

To the aspects of disadvantage: beeing a drow gives you at least some interaction with someone. If you come on a nightmare...well usually either they come with pitchforks or they flee

I don't think I understand what you're looking for then (if a flying horse isn't it...because that's kind of basic Nightmare.)

Are you looking for a mount that:
1) has fire resistance, and grant it to the rider?
2)shines bright light (not so good for a drow)
3)Can stride between ethereal and material plane
4)Has more HP than a warhorse (average 68)
5)Fly

Or are you just liking the fluff of how it looks?

[Feuerphoenix]

I don't think I understand what you're looking for then (if a flying horse isn't it...because that's kind of basic Nightmare.)

Are you looking for a mount that:
1) has fire resistance, and grant it to the rider?
2)shines bright light (not so good for a drow)
3)Can stride between ethereal and material plane
4)Has more HP than a warhorse (average 68)
5)Fly

Or are you just liking the fluff of how it looks?


Mmh to be honest, I was pretty attached to the Fire resistance in combination with its flyff. The bright shine is something I did Not think that much to be honest. It just appeared obvious to me that fire is bright :D

[BiPolar]

Mmh to be honest, I was pretty attached to the Fire resistance in combination with its flyff. The bright shine is something I did Not think that much to be honest. It just appeared obvious to me that fire is bright :D

To clarify after reading the MM, Drows have sensitivity to sunlight, not bright light. So all good there :)

BUT, it seems you want some very nice additions to the standard warhorse. Getting resistance for both you and the animal is enormous and should come with a cost (high spell level, shorter duration, etc.) It's basically a Rare magic item (Ring of resistance). That's gonna cost ya.

[Feuerphoenix]

But I think what makes the nightmare so good is that it actually has some hp you can rely on. When you reduce it's hp down to ~20hp it is still dead to most attacks even with Fire. This advantage is based on the premise, that your horse will not to down after one simple attack. Without a feat, a warhorse is surpar in most circumstances at the time ist becomes available. And this is what bothers me also.

[BiPolar]

But I think what makes the nightmare so good is that it actually has some hp you can rely on. When you reduce it's hp down to ~20hp it is still dead to most attacks even with Fire. This advantage is based on the premise, that your horse will not to down after one simple attack. Without a feat, a warhorse is surpar in most circumstances at the time ist becomes available. And this is what bothers me also.

Maybe suggest to your DM to fluff something like this (since fire resistance and Lolth, whom I'm assuming your down with, don't seem to really make sense.)

Find Steed (4th Level) - War Spider
Poison Resistance
40 HP
AC 14
Otherwise, standard Giant Spider block (spider climb, web sense web walker and attacks including Web)

[Razuchee]

You could also take, or slightly change, the duergar spider mounts from ootA.

[Biggstick]

But I think what makes the nightmare so good is that it actually has some hp you can rely on. When you reduce it's hp down to ~20hp it is still dead to most attacks even with Fire. This advantage is based on the premise, that your horse will not to down after one simple attack. Without a feat, a warhorse is surpar in most circumstances at the time ist becomes available. And this is what bothers me also.

It might be going down to a simple attack, but you have access to a spirit mount. This thing never has to sleep or eat. You can communicate with it telepathically up to 1 mile. It has 6 Int and can understand one language of your choice, meaning someone else can communicate with it and it can make meaningful choices. It can stand watch for you while you're off doing something else since it never has to sleep. This mount can be re-summoned based on the required conditions for only a level 2 spell slot! This is already an extremely powerful spell that no other class has access to (save Bard magical secrets).

If you really want the Find Steed spell to be more useful and to be capable of performing mounted combat successfully, the Mounted Combatant feat is definitely necessary.

[Herobizkit]

As a DM, I'd allow it... with caveats.

For example, If you were planning on multi-classing into warlock and taking the Fiend pact, then the Pact of the Chain, I'd allow your bonded animal to be a Nightmare. By that point, you're level 8 and flying creatures start becoming more common.

If you wanted one earlier than that, I'd allow it but require you to either perform a significant quest or sacrifice in the name of Asmodeus.

If you didn't want to quest but really really bugged me about it, then I would still allow it but make the mount Unreliable. It would act like an unwilling servant and an NPC under my control. :smallamused: