Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell

[Artemis97]

In England, during the Napoleonic wars, two magicians appear: the titular Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. The two are a study in contrasts and end up clashing as practical magic returns to the world after centuries. Originally a novel by Susanna Clarke (and a rather hefty one at that), it was turned into a 7 part mini-series by the BBC and is now on Netflix in the US.

I thoroughly enjoyed the mini-series, and am currently working my way slowly through the novel. While the book can get a bit dense at times, I highly recommend the mini-series. So, who else has seen it? What did you like or dislike about it?

[Thrudd]

I watched it recently, too. I enjoyed it, the magic system was interesting. I feel the ending sequence was a bit convoluted and confusing, but I'm sure the book would make it clearer what was going on there with the Raven King and Stephen. I would like to read it at some point.

[Legato Endless]

I adore the footnotes. They're probably the most divisive aspect of the whole novel, but they really add to the sense of world building and giving the comedy of manners and satire a bit of levity when the snark of the narrative proper declines in the second half.

The miniseries is very solid, and it does a good job being a proper adaption. That is, what it lacks in the novel's textual breadth it makes up for with visual panache and slightly punchier protagonists. My only minor critique is that the climax is a touch cheesier than it needs to be, thanks to some overacting and drawn out staring. It's solidly performed beside that, especially getting to see Childermass, probably my favorite character in the novel.

[Artemis97]

A warning the book is DENSE. I call it my brick book, because it's roughly the size of a cinderblock. It's enjoyable, but not exactly light summer reading. It's full of period appropiate language and minutia. I do enjoy the footnotes. It adds that extra layer of...is virsimilitude the word I'm looking for? Depth? I don't know, but I love hearing the little faerie stories behind the man in the green coat and the other magicians that came before Strange and Norrell.

[5a Violista]

I've only seen the first episode, back when it came out, but it was pretty good. I suppose I should now watch the rest of it.

The book, though! Literally my second-favorite book. For some reason, I have a thing for thick books. Its length may have had some influence on how much I liked it: I could just keep on reading and reading it for days and it was still interesting, with interesting ways magic worked and a really complex world and the Napoleonic war and in spite of Mr. Norrell's incessant need to quantify and treat magic as a high-class thing you could study, there was still mystery. Jonathan Strange was definitely my favorite character (or his wife. I liked them both).

[Cristo Meyers]

I never did get around to the miniseries. It came out within months of me finishing the book. I meant to, but it just never came together I guess.

Dense is definitely a word I'd use to describe the book. Also, meandering. It kinda moseys along at its own pace, bits of story here, background there, and all of it matters. I personally loved the footnotes, even the ones that took up full pages on their own. The story was great, but it's one of those books that I'm not sure I'll ever have the urge to read again.

[BWR]

I'm quite fond of the book and thought the miniseries did a good job of adapting it.
The book isn't what I would call dense but, as Cristo said, is meandering (that was exactly the term that sprang to my mind as well). It knows what it is and where it is going and takes a slow, comfortable, scenic route to get to its goal.
The only major critique I can level at the show is the gentleman with the thistledown hair. He's supposed to be fey. He's supposed to be entirely self-absorbed and well, 'whimsical' is the best word I can think of now, if you remove the 'harmless' and 'amusing' connotations of that word. The one in the show was too deliberate and stolid for my taste. That is however a fairly minor issue in an otherwise very entertaining and well-made production.

[2D8HP]

I personally loved the footnotes, even the ones that took up full pages on their own. The story was great, but it's one of those books that I'm not sure I'll ever have the urge to read again.
It's been a decade since I've read (and loved) the novel, but I've re-read Susanna Clarke's other book The Ladies of Grace Adieu and Other Stories (https://www.amazon.com/Ladies-Grace-Adieu-Other-Stories/dp/1596913835)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/LadiesGraceAdieu.jpg/220px-LadiesGraceAdieu.jpg
quite a few times!
The stories are set in the same milieu as the novel (with one story also set in Gaiman's Wall/Stardust realm of Faerie), and are marvelous.
Recommended!

[Artemis97]

So I've been reading the novel, and have reached the point just before Strange gets sent off to the peninsula. I've decided that I really don't like Mr. Norrell anymore. I'm wondering if I was ever meant to. At first his bookish ways were somewhat charming, but the way he's been lying to Strange and now he's made poor Arabella cry at the book auction. I think I definitely liked show Norrell better than book Norrell. He wasn't as... schemey.

[Armaius]

So I've been reading the novel, and have reached the point just before Strange gets sent off to the peninsula. I've decided that I really don't like Mr. Norrell anymore. I'm wondering if I was ever meant to. At first his bookish ways were somewhat charming, but the way he's been lying to Strange and now he's made poor Arabella cry at the book auction. I think I definitely liked show Norrell better than book Norrell. He wasn't as... schemey.

I never much liked Norrell. He was basically a paranoid magical Scrooge just hoarding books (disclaimer: I have yet to see the miniseries adaption, though its on my too watch list.).

Strange on the Peninsula was my favorite part of the book. Wellington was a hoot. :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

I never much liked Norrell. He was basically a paranoid magical Scrooge just hoarding books

That's about the best description of Norrell I've come across. I started not liking the arrogant, miserly little cockroach at about the same time Artemis did. It became patently clear he was only hoarding knowledge for his own ego rather than any larger benefit and reading him trying to justify that self-deception only got more painful.

[SmartAlec]

That's an interesting take on Norrell. I took it that the thing that drove Norrell wasn't ego, but fear. He's a contradiction in that he's afraid of the wildness of magic, and yet he loves the art of it and can't bring himself to walk away - his behaviour feels less like ego and greed, and more of a man treating magic as if it was a former lover he can't let go of. He locks away his books like a man with a broken heart hiding love-letters, but when Childermass nudges him to to start again, he can't resist. It seemed that everything he does is to turn magic into something he doesn't have to be afraid of any more.

[Flickerdart]

Mr. Norrel's driving, singular motivation is not to improve people's lives, or help anybody, but to be respectable. His bungle of handling the Gentleman only compounds on top of that.

And yet I still prefer him to pretty much every single auxiliary character, who all want to take advantage of the duo. With the exception of Arabella Strange and Lady Pole, everyone is awful.

[Dienekes]

Mr. Norrel's driving, singular motivation is not to improve people's lives, or help anybody, but to be respectable. His bungle of handling the Gentleman only compounds on top of that.

And yet I still prefer him to pretty much every single auxiliary character, who all want to take advantage of the duo. With the exception of Arabella Strange and Lady Pole, everyone is awful.

Eh. I'd still rather hang out with Childermass, even with all his nastiness (the worst of which were usually at Norrell's request if I remember right).

[Artemis97]

Mr. Norrell is especially concerned with making magic proper and right and not wild and unpredictable at all. He seems to think the best way to do that is to hoard all the knowledge for himself, in the form of his books. He outright lies to Strange and it's all just very manipulative and controlling.

I think my least favorite character, though, is Drawlight (or possibly Lascelles, they're fairly interchangeable when they're together). I hated the way he hounded Arabella for information about Lady Pole, asking if she'd turned into a vampire or something like that.

[Flickerdart]

Drawlight is annoying, but he'a also hilarious and ultimately benign. While he's definitely selfish (his only motive being to weasel into Norrel's good graces as a way to elevate himself in society) he's not really detrimental to anyone's efforts. Lascelles, on the other hand, is cruel and arrogant.

[Artemis97]

So I just finished watching episode 2 of the miniseries, (my second viewing) which covers from the return of Lady Pole up to when Johnathan leaves for Portugal. It contains some of my favorite depictions of magic in the show: the water ships Norrell creates to confound the French and the horses summoned by Strange to right the ship that gets stuck on the sandbar. I found the scene with the ship especially funny, having now read the chapter, with the port admiral's dialogue about how "They'll all drown" being repeated. Poor Johnathan running out of ideas and becoming frustrated with the entire situation was amusing.

It also covered the scene of the book auction which, as in the book, left Arabella in tears. In the show they have the Gentleman show up and offer her a hankerchief, which she refuses. Thankfully so! I can only imagine what he might have asked of her for accepting such a token. If being part of the nightly dances was a reward for Stephen's good service... I imagine he would have wanted Arabella to join as well. (which I know he does want eventually, but I haven't seen this desire be expressed in the book yet.

Oh and that reminds me, I love the look of the elves in Lost Hope in all their finery and dancing around so freely. Stephen and Lady Pole are clearly entranced by the dancing and Lost Hope has this wonderfully abandoned creepy vibe to it. It's just great. Perhaps not as interesting as a lady wearing literal stormclouds, but still a great interpretation.

I'm going to keep reading, perhaps a bit quicker now, if my power goes out thanks to this hurricane. I've still got Stange in Portugal in my reading, so I think once I get past that, I'll watch the next episode.

[Dienekes]

Drawlight is annoying, but he'a also hilarious and ultimately benign. While he's definitely selfish (his only motive being to weasel into Norrel's good graces as a way to elevate himself in society) he's not really detrimental to anyone's efforts. Lascelles, on the other hand, is cruel and arrogant.

Benign may be pushing it a bit. Drawlight was a thief who used the people he leeched onto to impersonate them and get more money from unsuspecting simpletons in a manner that was guaranteed to backfire on him.

At best he was a scummy corrupt swindler, who just happened to be really bad and obvious with his swindling. Which is admittedly is still better than Lascelles.

[Artemis97]

I don't recall Lascelles being so bad, but maybe something got missed in the TV show and I haven't yet reached it in the novel?

[Legato Endless]

I don't recall Lascelles being so bad, but maybe something got missed in the TV show and I haven't yet reached it in the novel?

Lascelles starts off as an arrogant opportunist all too willing to bend legality and morality to keep his meal ticket (Norrel) ascendant. As for the rest, keep reading.

[Flickerdart]

Benign may be pushing it a bit. Drawlight was a thief who used the people he leeched onto to impersonate them and get more money from unsuspecting simpletons in a manner that was guaranteed to backfire on him.

At best he was a scummy corrupt swindler, who just happened to be really bad and obvious with his swindling. Which is admittedly is still better than Lascelles.
Oh yeah, that's true, I forgot about the swindling. That was definitely a thing. But then again, it was just theft, compared to, well, you know.

[Artemis97]

I just finished reading the chapters where Strange goes to visit the king. They turn out quite differently then how the trip is portrayed in the show. The Gentleman gets quite involved and nearly enchants both the king and Strange. I was like "Where is this going?" at one point. Loved what happened to the Wilises and their goons, though. The description of the main orderly was the most disgusting thing I've read in.. perhaps ever.

[Benthesquid]

Eh. I'd still rather hang out with Childermass, even with all his nastiness (the worst of which were usually at Norrell's request if I remember right).

I'd quite fancy a drink with Childermass. He'd know the best bar, the ones the locals go to of an evening and rarely mention to outsiders, though he'd only arrived in town that morning. One would have difficulty, however, shaking the impression that he was laughing at you behind his cup.

[Artemis97]

I just finished the third episode of the miniseries. It covers all of Strange's time on the peninsula. That seemed to match with the book fairly well, though they cut out or accelerated bits on how he becomes beholden to the troops and Wellington. The bit with the dead Neapolitans was particularly creepy. Though I think they suffered more in the book, you could really see it effecting Strange here. The old windmill was a very spooky place for magic, and moved and creaked in a wonderfully dramatic fashion.

Back in England, things with Lady Pole are definitely accelerated, as she begins work on a tapestry to try and communicate her plight to Arabella. I haven't yet come across this in the books. And the end of the episode finishes with Childermas being shot. Very exciting, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out in the book.

[anotherthumb]

I think i am gonna watch this. You guys really picked my curiosity.