Bestow Curse and Magic Missile

[AttilatheYeon]

Hi all, quick question. If a wizard casts Bestow Curse on a monster then hits it with a MM spell, how is the damage calculated. Is it roll 1 die plus bonuses times the number of missiles like Evoker Wizards? Or is it roll damage then add Bestow Curse after?

[EvilAnagram]

It's completely vague and could go either way.

[Kane0]

Better question: Why not curse them with vulnerability to force damage?

[EvilAnagram]

Better question: Why not curse them with vulnerability to force damage?

Because that effect is more powerful than the ones suggested, which makes it explicitly forbidden.

I only ever used that spell to turn a guy's **** into fire ants.

[RickAllison]

Because that effect is more powerful than the ones suggested, which makes it explicitly forbidden.

I only ever used that spell to turn a guy's **** into fire ants.

*I am no longer allowed to borrow ideas for curses from GitP

[famousringo]

The text says "your attacks and spells deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage to the target." Magic Missile is not an attack, it is a single spell. I'd interpret the RAW as a single d8 bonus damage.

Scorching Ray, on the other hand, is a series of attacks...

[Elite Hatter]

The text says "your attacks and spells deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage to the target." Magic Missile is not an attack, it is a single spell. I'd interpret the RAW as a single d8 bonus damage.

Scorching Ray, on the other hand, is a series of attacks...

But MM, like Scorching Ray, can target 1 ot multiple targets. The only difference is the attack roll. MM is auto-hit. Just be sure they don't have the Shield Spell

[Erys]

The text says "your attacks and spells deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage to the target." Magic Missile is not an attack, it is a single spell. I'd interpret the RAW as a single d8 bonus damage.

Scorching Ray, on the other hand, is a series of attacks...

This.


But MM, like Scorching Ray, can target 1 ot multiple targets. The only difference is the attack roll. MM is auto-hit. Just be sure they don't have the Shield Spell

The lack of an Attack makes all the difference. Usually to Magic Missiles benefit, but not in this case.

[famousringo]

But MM, like Scorching Ray, can target 1 ot multiple targets. The only difference is the attack roll. MM is auto-hit. Just be sure they don't have the Shield Spell

The attack rolls make all the difference. The text specifies attacks or spells, not hits. A single Magic Missile spell can make several hits, but it always makes zero attacks.

No attack roll, no attack.

[Elite Hatter]

The attack rolls make all the difference. The text specifies attacks or spells, not hits. A single Magic Missile spell can make several hits, but it always makes zero attacks.

No attack roll, no attack.

....But both are spells and follow the rules of cast a spell vs make an attack action. I think the spells text is for that specification. Not for things with an attack roll vs not. That's just my interpretation of it anyway.

I mean its 3d4+1 and then +3d8, whats that, 24 damage? And your spending 2 spell slots for it 1 for Bestow Curse and 1 for MM. And it takes 2 turns to set up. Because you can't cast a spell and a cantrip in the same turn.

[EvilAnagram]

....But both are spells and follow the rules of cast a spell vs make an attack action. I think the spells text is for that specification. Not for things with an attack roll vs not. That's just my interpretation of it anyway.

I mean its 3d4+1 and then +3d8, whats that, 24 damage? And your spending 2 spell slots for it 1 for Bestow Curse and 1 for MM. And it takes 2 turns to set up. Because you can't cast a spell and a cantrip in the same turn.

You know, the fire ants caused 1d4 damage at the start of his turn, and he completely lost his focus on the fight. Plus, it's not like he was going to try to squish them, so they kept at it.

[Elite Hatter]

You know, the fire ants caused 1d4 damage at the start of his turn, and he completely lost his focus on the fight. Plus, it's not like he was going to try to squish them, so they kept at it.

You lost me.

Also I'm a huge fan of your guides sir.

[EvilAnagram]

You lost me.

Also I'm a huge fan of your guides sir.

Thank you!

And I was referring to my earlier post where I described the time I bestowed a curse on an enemy that turned his happy bits into fire ants.

[Elite Hatter]

Thank you!

And I was referring to my earlier post where I described the time I bestowed a curse on an enemy that turned his happy bits into fire ants.

Gotcha. Yea, how'd that come about anyway?

[EvilAnagram]

Gotcha. Yea, how'd that come about anyway?

I was angry at a vampire spawn, so I turned his junk into fire ants. There was no complex justification. He spent the rest of the battle fairly freaked out, especially when someone's Burning Hands burned away half the ants.

[Erys]

....But both are spells and follow the rules of cast a spell vs make an attack action. I think the spells text is for that specification. Not for things with an attack roll vs not. That's just my interpretation of it anyway.

I mean its 3d4+1 and then +3d8, whats that, 24 damage? And your spending 2 spell slots for it 1 for Bestow Curse and 1 for MM. And it takes 2 turns to set up. Because you can't cast a spell and a cantrip in the same turn.

This is an Attack v non-Attack instance.

"your attacks and spells deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage to the target."

Both are called out; each of your attacks deal an extra d8, and so do your spells.

Scorching Ray is a series of Attacks, like a flurry of sword swings each benefit from the Curse.

Magic Missile is considered simply an offensive spell, it takes one action to cast and it does what it is told- simultaneously . So one missile on the Cursed target, or five, either way he takes only d8 extra damage.

That said, I don't think your way would break the game or anything.

[AttilatheYeon]

So way back Jeremy Crawford Tweeted that Magic Missile only rolls one die for all the missiles. Therefore a 10th level Evoker adds there Int bonus to that one roll. Then multiplies by the number of missiles cast. Would Bestow Curse also follow that? Thereby multiplying the damage by the number of missiles.

Anyways, i'm hoping that is how it works. 😉

[Erys]

I am inclined to say no.

Empowered Evocation puts its condition onto the spell Magic Missile, which is one spell that uses one damage roll with all bonuses, hitting x times simultaneously.

Bestow Curse puts the condition on the person being struck; regardless the actual number of missiles used Magic Missile is still one spell striking the target.

[EvilAnagram]

So way back Jeremy Crawford Tweeted that Magic Missile only rolls one die for all the missiles. Therefore a 10th level Evoker adds there Int bonus to that one roll. Then multiplies by the number of missiles cast. Would Bestow Curse also follow that? Thereby multiplying the damage by the number of missiles.

Anyways, i'm hoping that is how it works. 😉

The d8 isn't tied to damage rolls. It's tied to the spell you cast. Therefore, you get an extra d8 and that's it.

[Giant2005]

So way back Jeremy Crawford Tweeted that Magic Missile only rolls one die for all the missiles. Therefore a 10th level Evoker adds there Int bonus to that one roll. Then multiplies by the number of missiles cast. Would Bestow Curse also follow that? Thereby multiplying the damage by the number of missiles.

Anyways, i'm hoping that is how it works. 😉

If you were running under that rule then it should apply to Bestow Curse too.
The only reason Bestow Curse applies only the once is because there is no clause that allows it to trigger on a spell multiple times. Empowered Evocation doesn't have a clause that permits it either, so if you apply it to one, you should apply it to both.

[Citan]

Hi all, quick question. If a wizard casts Bestow Curse on a monster then hits it with a MM spell, how is the damage calculated. Is it roll 1 die plus bonuses times the number of missiles like Evoker Wizards? Or is it roll damage then add Bestow Curse after?


It's completely vague and could go either way.
Or not. Actually not.
Bestow Curse says "attacks and spells deal 1d8 extra necrotic damage to the target".
Magic Missile is not an attack, since it hits automatically. Also, all missiles "strikes simultaneously" which enforce the idea of "single instance" if you target the same creature.
So, the extra damage of Bestow Curse would only trigger once, whether you targeted only one or several missiles towards it.

If however you had (for any reason) 2 creatures affected by your Bestow Curse, and split the missiles between them, obviously each will suffer 1d8 extra necrotic damage.

EDIT: My gosh, I'm overburned to crisp... XD

[Dalebert]

And I was referring to my earlier post where I described the time I bestowed a curse on an enemy that turned his happy bits into fire ants.

OOOOOOH! OMG. So you turned his happy bits into very unhappy bits. That seems a bit much for the spell but great if your DM let's you get away with it. I assumed the **** was referring to a stronger word for his poo. Then you said he wasn't trying to squish them and I thought that his colon would most definitely be trying to squish them.

[AttilatheYeon]

Thanks for the replies. It helps to know what i can do and not do with my spells. I now know to reserve Bestow Curse for a more defensive debuff instead of trying to make it part of my regular single target damage.