RAI question: Thinaun and Revivify

[No brains]

I know it's not RAW, but if I were to be a DM in a game where a character tried to use revivify on a creature after one turn, could they do it if the character had the creature's soul in a thinaun thingamajig? Both thinaun and revivify cheapen raising a creature under the justification that 'the creature's soul is still close'. Should I cut the character a break and let them get their creature back this way, or should I be a stickler about these things having slightly different effects that don't totally synergize?

Could I let the character cast revivify, but at no discount? I think revivify and thinaun both use similar enough justifications that the soul counts as being nerby enough for revivify to work with no time limit, but still at its normal price. I think that could be considered 'fair'. Maybe also have the thinaun thingy get destroyed in the process so that the soul is all the way back in the body, but also to keep this situation from happening twice.

I suppose that if I were to play it by perfect RAW, if the character could get to the creature in one round, they would be able to cast revivify at a discount, because the soul is somehow even closer than normal, but that somehow seems like my weirdest option.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Strictest RAW: nothing about thinaun changes the duration limit on spells that rais the dead, so you still only get one round for revivify unless you use gentle repose on that round instead.

As a house rule, I'd probably allow having the thinaun bound soul close at hand to bypass the normal level loss -or- the time limit on revivify but not both. Maybe throw in a spellcraft check if that feels too generous.

[No brains]

I didn't know about using gentle repose like that. Are you sure the RAW would work that way? Gentle repose says that it works for extending the time limit of raise dead, and revivify works like raise dead, but it is not raise dead. Still, I guess that's easier RAI than the thinaun business.

So you would still give a pass on the thinaun weapon allowing the cheaper gp price of revivify? I figured that would be a good compromise because the characters are still losing money on a thinaun dagger versus two castings of raise dead. If the creature is dying enough that the dagger saves them money, they might need all the help they can get.

[Fizban]

There is a RAW workaround: carry a scroll of Revenance. It has a longer time limit of 1 round/level, but since the spell explicitly brings them back to life (only to die again a few minutes later), it gives you a new chance to cast Revivify.

Alternatively I'd just extend the window for Revivify itself. The strict 1 round limit encourages extremely poor tactical play, suddenly breaking formation to rush over and waste your turn and a good spell slot bringing back an ally with -1hp, leaving you both prime targets for an AoE that will re-kill them and damage you. For parties that die a lot it looks like the holy grail, a cheaper raise with no level loss, but parties that have lots of death can't afford to drop their guard even further.

Even a 2 round limit gives enough time for the whole surviving party, including the cleric, to go all out and try to finish the fight fast enough to cast the spell in time.

[Zanos]

As a house rule, I'd probably allow having the thinaun bound soul close at hand to bypass the normal level loss -or- the time limit on revivify but not both. Maybe throw in a spellcraft check if that feels too generous.
Revivify doesn't normally have level loss, for whatever that's worth in this discussion.


I didn't know about using gentle repose like that. Are you sure the RAW would work that way? Gentle repose says that it works for extending the time limit of raise dead, and revivify works like raise dead, but it is not raise dead. Still, I guess that's easier RAI than the thinaun business.

So you would still give a pass on the thinaun weapon allowing the cheaper gp price of revivify? I figured that would be a good compromise because the characters are still losing money on a thinaun dagger versus two castings of raise dead. If the creature is dying enough that the dagger saves them money, they might need all the help they can get.

Doing so effectively extends the time limit on raising that creature from the dead (see raise dead).
Gentle Repose references Raise Dead, but does not establish exclusivity with it. It should work.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Revivify doesn't normally have level loss, for whatever that's worth in this discussion.

Bah. This is what I get from going by memory most of the time. In that case, I'd probably still let the thinaun bypass the normal duration limit on revivify with a spellcraft check. Something in a DC 25 or 30 or something like that.