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View Full Version : Optimization Is there anything decent for buffs between Extend Spell and Persistent Spell?



Flint_A
2016-09-11, 10:45 AM
We're playing a 4-player gestalt party, but two of the players are inexperienced. The DM is going to give them templates on one side and just make them play as if they have a single class for a while.

The other three players are playing non-casters. (Well, one's a paladin, but that's not a decent caster for quite a while.)

So I decided to make a Wizard/Archivist to handle all our casting needs. I want to be able to cast some decent buffs at some point. (Not now, we're level 1.)

I want something better than Extend Spell, but cheaper than Persistent spell. Maybe something that lasts a couple of hours? I'd prefer a feat/item/etc. that's versatile, but if you can just offer a few decent spells I'll take that too.

As an Archivist I don't have turning and therefore divine metamagic. There's probably some way of getting that, but my DM isn't fond of such cheese.

Really if I could get 1 minute/level spells to 1 hour/level (or even like two hours) that'd be great. If I could get 1 round/level spells to last a couple of minutes, that'd be AWESOME. I do not need day-long buffs.

Psyren
2016-09-11, 10:59 AM
Your best bet is probably just to recast them. Something that regains the slots like Pearls of Power should do the trick.

For the rounds/lvl stuff, often the best trick there is just to be able to get them up quickly when needed. Quicken helps here, or better yet, you can use Time Stop or duplicate a fast time plane locally so that you get multiple rounds to layer these short-duration buffs onto yourself.

Flint_A
2016-09-11, 11:33 AM
I'm pretty sure the game will die before we get to Time Stop levels.

Pearl of power sounds good, but still...I mean, for example, how can I fly a four-level party any reasonable distance without ruining myself?

I just got out of a 5E campaign where I played a druid. One casting of Conjure Animals, a level 3 spell, could get me 8 giant owls (capable of carrying a medium humanoid) for 1 hour! (Not to mention summoning other useful animals for combat.) I'm just craving that kind of flexible utility. I'm sure we'll go through the first few levels relatively quickly, but I don't know if we'll ever see past level 8-9 or so. I won't have enough slots to just keep casting fly over and over on the whole party.

I'm more interested in such "utility" buffs than spells like "+2 to AC". I know the DM, I don't think it's the combats I need to worry about. (Plus the entire rest of the party will be built for combat.)

Eldariel
2016-09-11, 11:46 AM
Not for duration, but stuff like Chain Spell (3 levels) and Quicken Spell (4 levels) has obvious benefits for buffs and lie in-between.

Tamorlin
2016-09-11, 11:50 AM
How about war weaver (heroes of battle)? One cast of a creature touched spell like fly will affect everyone in your party via eldritch tapestry.

Flint_A
2016-09-11, 12:34 PM
Wow, War Weaver actually looks amazing. Losing one caster level is sort of sad, but considering that I'd have to use lots of metamagics otherwise it works out the same or better. Thanks! I think I can convince him to allow that. (He said stick to the SRD for 1st level, with minor exceptions, but you can use weird books later if you can find someone to teach you in-game.)

Really the only tiny issue is that I took the "Focused" trait to get a little buff for my Craft(alchemy), so I'll be getting a -2 to Craft(weaving)...but I should still have a +9 for a mere DC 15, so it's fine.

DarkSoul
2016-09-11, 01:02 PM
Considering that War Weaver only uses the craft check to set up the eldritch tapestry, and the text itself tells you to just take 10 on the check (in a roundabout way), you can probably get away with the 6 ranks needed for the class and your intelligence modifer will make up for the check penalty. As long as you've got at least a +5, you're fine.

On topic for the thread, you might need to talk to the DM about either homebrewing a feat or researching spells. Off the top of my head, a metamagic feat to increase the duration of a spell to the next time increment (rounds/level to minutes/level, minutes to 10 minutes, 10 minutes to hours, hours to days) would probably be a +3 or +4 level adjustment. If a homebrew feat isn't an option, then spell research for longer duration versions of spells would be your other route.

Flint_A
2016-09-11, 01:07 PM
He won't allow a homebrew feat, but I'm sure I can get him to allow homebrew spells after a few levels. Problem is, I don't know if the campaign will allow for such timeskips. I guess we'll see.

Edit:

I have just been informed that I am allowed to do this:

1-3) Wizard/Archivist
4-5) Mystic Thaumaturge/Something
6) Mystic Thaumaturge/War Weaver
7-10) Something/War Weaver

(Those somethings can be other PrCs.) I didn't think he'd be this lenient. He did warn me not to become overpowered because he WILL tailor encounters to kill me, then the rest of the party will get killed and then they'll get mad at me. But he specifically allowed this much. Woo.

DarkSoul
2016-09-11, 02:07 PM
I assume that's Mystic Theurge? Completely unnecessary given that you're in a gestalt game. Why not straight archivist up one side for all the class abilities, and Wiz5/War Weaver 5/XXXX on the other side?

Flint_A
2016-09-11, 02:11 PM
Yeah, that, sorry.

Well, War Weaver doesn't get spellcasting in the first level. So one level of MT+WV makes sense regardless.

I could stick to Archivist, I suppose, I just don't think the class abilities are THAT good.

Flint_A
2016-09-11, 04:07 PM
NEVER MIND.

DM encouraged me to play a druid and I didn't need much encouraging.

New build is:

1) Druid-Fighter
2-5) Druid-Sorcerer
6-15) Arcane Hierophant - Master of Many Forms

(Order of Fighter and Sorcerer may change.) I'm pretty sure that if I pile any more cheese on top of that, rocks will materialize over my head in the real world, so I don't need any more help. Thanks everyone!