Thoughts on Divine Mind [ComPsi]?

[Erit]

Really simple thread, really random question. I was flitting through my library out of boredom and saw Divine Mind and its rather peculiar statline, what with the frontline hit die, support BAB, low skill points/level and a manifesting progression that makes me think "Psionic Paladin", has put me in a weird mindset about it.

What do you guys think? Good, salvageable, Soulborn? What if you were allowed to pick your mantles like an Ardent; would that change your opinion at all?

[ComaVision]

In my games, they know all the powers in their mantles and get PsyWar PP progression.

[Extra Anchovies]

It's in pretty much the same boat as the Soulborn; not worth touching as is, but salvageable with homebrew fixes of varying intensity. That puts it above classes like the monk, which need total rewrites to be playable. ComaVision's suggested fix is simple and effective. I also recommend letting them change auras as a move action at 1st level and a swift action at 8th, and many of the auras could definitely do with some boosts. Giving them two auras at 1st, a third at 6th, and a fourth at 12th would also probably be better than all four at 1st.

[Canine]

You aren't the only one to ask this question (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?416027-What-does-the-Divine-Mind-need), and someone was even brave enough to tackle a full Divine Mind guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246926-Straining-Credulity-The-Divine-Mind-Handbook), but solid fixes seem sparse. Depending on how much change you want, grafting on Soulknife (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13075.0;wap2) is a popular quick fix, although I agree with some comments in the other threads that grafting on White Raven manuevers is a more interesting fix that fits well with the leadership theme of the auras.

[Starbuck_II]

Double all aura ranges: they start and end too small.
BAB can stay if we give them some other buff like better pp progression (Remove penalty to casting/manifesting, still starts late or Psi war progression)
It gets Wild Talent feat due to bad progression: if we change progression, we can give a better Bonus feat.

http://secretsofthearchmages.net/Threads/WOTC/2008/Psionics/796815.html

Also: Marshall one http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1013.0

[Psyren]

The official ACF that gives it an Astral Construct mount helps quite a bit. It really, really should have had Full BAB though.

Don't get me started on the fact that a psionic class can "fall" however. :smallyuk:

[daremetoidareyo]

I think that it's dumb. Faith is something that is invested with magical qualities not psychic. D&D psionics is about knowledge of self and doesn't pair well well with the subjugative aspects of diety based faith. At least, not to my tastes.

[Darrin]

Definitely a head-scratcher. You've already got mantle powers for Ardents but... these are different mantle powers? No, not powers, "auras" and... ok, they kept trying to do this "aura" thing in 3.5, and it always wound up underpowered weaksauce.

However, I think as a dip they are under-utilized. A few gems are in there.

Communication: telepathy might allow early access to Mindsight feat.
Creation: Warforged might find this useful.
Repose: Ignore the effects of fatigue. Troll-Blooded, anyone?

[Sayt]

I think that it's dumb. Faith is something that is invested with magical qualities not psychic. D&D psionics is about knowledge of self and doesn't pair well well with the subjugative aspects of diety based faith. At least, not to my tastes.

But the brain is the throne of both reason and faith, so I think there's room for a niche divine/psionic overlap.

[Psyren]

But the brain is the throne of both reason and faith, so I think there's room for a niche divine/psionic overlap.

There is, and the Ardent demonstrated exactly what that needs to look like. Divine Mind should have been exactly that, but with more of a martial focus and possibly a different name.

[Fouredged Sword]

What i always think when looking at this class is "is this really better than war mind"

[Lans]

I think its like a fighter or monk, where if you need to optimize the hell out of something and not overshadow the party this is an option

[Starbuck_II]

What i always think when looking at this class is "is this really better than war mind"

So combine Prc abilities with base class? Profit!