So... this new game...

[....]

Game. (http://www.gamespot.com/video/918428/6172011/fallout-3-official-trailer-1)

Thoughts?

[Ranis]

There's, like, so already a thread for Fallout 3.

[Mr._Blinky]

Yeah, like five.

[Hermit]

And opinion will pretty much be either "Looks very good" from people who've never played Fallout before (Like me, I intend to remedy this ASAP, please don't kill me), or "Oh good god no! Handheld nukes, too many mutants, Bethesda stop ruining my life, etc" from fans.

And I won't begrudge them their ranting. I still remember my blind rage over Deus Ex: Invisible War like it was only yesterday...

EDIT: Edited due to poor punctuation.

[....]

And opinion will pretty much be either "Looks very good" from people who've never played Fallout before (Like me, I intend to remedy this ASAP, please don't kill me), or "Oh good god no handheld nukes too many mutants, Bethesda stop ruining my life, etc" from fans.

And I won't begrudge them their ranting. I still remember my blind rage over Deus Ex: Invisible War like it was only yesterday...

There ARE handheld nukes :smallcool:

[Shikton]

There ARE handheld nukes :smallcool:

Which is what people hate. It just didn't come clear due to poor punctuation.

[....]

...

People hate handheld nukes...?

Why? Because it ruins the belivability of a world populated by giant ants and 'super mutants'?

[Hermit]

...

People hate handheld nukes...?

Why? Because it ruins the belivability of a world populated by giant ants and 'super mutants'?

Seriously, visit the Beth forums for the game. Apparently the die hard Fallout fans have very (and I mean very) strict ideas about what does and doesn't fit fallout. They'll bitch about the setting, they'll complain about the plot, they'll cry "Oblivion with Guns", they'll call for blood over the loss of turn-based iso combat and groin shots, and generally moan about anything and everything.

But like I said, those who don't worship Fallout like a religion seem to have a far more positive impression of it :p

On a serious side, the recent PC Gamer preview made it sound like they're doing a lot of work especially on making sure quests and dialogue is deep and far more grey than the old one word "Help" or "Don't Help" style of interation in Oblivion, something which if it works I'm seriously hoping makes it to TESV

[TheEmerged]

I'll try to explain the fanboi reaction here.

Fallout 1 and 2 both seemed to be built around a "World of the Future" as it was envisioned in the 50's. That's why you have giant supercomputers instead of laptops, for example. The general consensus amongst fans of the Fallout continuity is that "Earth Fallout" probably diverged from the "real world's" history sometime in the late 40's.

Go HERE (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_world) for a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Fallout Tactics seemed to diverge from this in ways I won't pretend to know (I never finished it).

Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel has an... interesting real-world story to it. Put frankly the developers built a completely different world with a completely different tone (and some very, very obvious continuity problems) and then threw a bunch of Fallout terminology in to try and get sales from name recognition. The guy behind it said some pretty stupid things about the reaction of the fan base and things went downhill from there. Interestingly it's a pretty fun game in terms of the game itself, but in my opinion deserved some of the bad-mouthing it got from the fan base.

So a lot of the reaction you're seeing is built out of that. "Oh noes! They're disrespecting the franchise! It's going to suck as bad as FO:BOS!" Personally I think the people trying to build a cohesive world out of Fallout are missing the point, but I have to admit some of the stuff in FO:BOS had me hitting "mute" when playing so I wouldn't get snarky.


Why? Because it ruins the belivability of a world populated by giant ants and 'super mutants'?

It's not a question of believability. It's a question of fitting the established tone and/or "style" from the first two games (and remember, FO:BOS isn't considered canon in the least and FT supposedly has problems).

[....]

I read an article on it and saw that VATS was still in the game, meaning you'd pause and select which part of your enemy you wanted to shoot (i.e. groin). And that you could shoot in real-time, but it wouldn't be as effective.

[Tom_Violence]

...

People hate handheld nukes...?

Why? Because it ruins the belivability of a world populated by giant ants and 'super mutants'?

To a certain extent, yes. The Fallout universe has a very particular feel and atmosphere to it, and part of that is related to the levels of technology that exist in the game. Things like the car in Fallout 2 wouldn't've worked if it was a beaten-up relic, despite the fact that it still is able to run on batteries and whatnot. Power Armour offers better protection than anything that exists today, but still looks like it runs on clockwork. The most powerful energy weapons look like they've been dragged kicking and screaming out of a low budget 60s sci fi TV show. Nearly everything is down-played and made to look as if it would only half work, on a good day, with the wind behind it.

Its a complex issue, and hard to really explain to someone, but to people that know it and grew up with it etc. its painfully obvious when something doesn't fit right. Which then leads to the issue of if a developer breaks the rules then it seems like they don't know what they're dealing with and should have their toys taken away.

That and the fact that I'm sure a lot of Fallout players like to think themselves towards the slightly more cerebral end of the spectrum, playing something dark and witty, whereas the mere notion of handheld nukes just screams base brainless 'omg big ekplosion lol bt lets ply Halo'.

[Dragor]

Well, a preview of Fallout 3 just came with the latest UK PC Gamer and, as a Fallout fan myself, I can say it's looking very promising. The setting looks great, they look like they're clinching the great bits of the original games (1 and 2, not Tactics and B.O.S) and, of course, the ironic humour.

I can't wait. They've kept the over-the-top gore, the irony, the sidekicks, the 'Aim wherever the hell you like- even the gonads' feature.... all the great things about Fallout. As well as being visually impressive, it looks like its going to be just as mentally intriguing as 1 and 2.

So, look at the glass half full, not half empty.... it should be one helluva game (and bring more fans to this brilliant series).

[talsine]

Handheld nukes are stupid for this reason, if nothing else. How to you run far enough away to avoid being killed by your own grenade? You can't, its a suicide device. have fun.

Me, i won't touch it when my requiset 10 foot clown pole, i'll play the origonals till the day i die, but never touch this. Why? everything i've seen is them trying to cater too much to both sides, and that never works. Either give the old school fans the game they want, or ignore them and make Oblivion with guns. middlegrounds rarely make anyone happy.

[ravenkith]

First of all...the nukes aren't grenades...they're ammunition for an arm-mounted catapult. (Yes, I know the physics behind that idea state it's ridiculous, but there you are).

Furthermore, they're pocket-nukes, pretty well contained, from what I understand: about the same level of function as an RPG, maybe a little bigger.

Second of all, these things do emit radiation that lingers after they explode, and even if you're outside the blast radius, you can still contaminate yourself with the radiation post use, and have to use a ton of anti-radiation medicine known as 'rad-away' (I kid you not).

Third, I suspect that this item ought to come into your hands quite aways through the game, to be used against a specific type of enemy (a 'mutant behemoth', whatever that is).

I played fallout 1 & 2, and loved both. I also loved Fallout tactics. I never played BOS.

I played oblivion and really like it.

I am madly looking forward to Fallout 3. It is going to replace my social life.

For me, it's less about the top-down isometric POV making the game, than it is about the attitude and dark humor, along with the depth of play.

Some people can't get past the differences to see the underlying beauty: Bethsoft loves the fallout universe. They grew up playing in it, and they want to take a crack at telling a story in the same place.

Fallout 3 is their 'love letter to interplay'...they're not going to deliberately screw it up.

[Tom_Violence]

Second of all, these things do emit radiation that lingers after they explode, and even if you're outside the blast radius, you can still contaminate yourself with the radiation post use, and have to use a ton of anti-radiation medicine known as 'rad-away' (I kid you not).


No need to 'kid us not', we played the first games, we know about Rad Away. :smallamused:

Despite what I've seen so far I still remain very reserved about this game. Handheld nukes alone are one thing, but I fear its probably indicative of a more general approach that I would find crappy.

[Morty]

I'm veeery skeptical about Fallout 3, and no, I'm not worshipping Fallout like religion. I'm just afraid that they'll make some game pretending to be cRPG like Oblivion, who bored me after two weeks. Handheld nukes and other "features" don't make me more optimistic.
Also, character creation as they present it is ridiculous and stupid. Would it kill them to make normal character creation like in first two Fallouts? Nooo, it's got to be needlessly complicated and long. Bleh. I like to test different character concepts, and character creation like that in Oblivion makes it annoying and needlessly long.

[Hermit]

I'm veeery skeptical about Fallout 3, and no, I'm not worshipping Fallout like religion. I'm just afraid that they'll make some game pretending to be cRPG like Oblivion, who bored me after two weeks. Handheld nukes and other "features" don't make me more optimistic.
Also, character creation as they present it is ridiculous and stupid. Would it kill them to make normal character creation like in first two Fallouts? Nooo, it's got to be needlessly complicated and long. Bleh. I like to test different character concepts, and character creation like that in Oblivion makes it annoying and needlessly long.

Meh, I've always preferred the ingame character generation of Morrowind/Ob over the older ES games, feels more immersive than simply clicking a few boxes. Plus, there's bound to be a "Do you want to change anything?" Question right before you leave. As with Oblivion I just keep a savegame right there for new characters.

Also, I'm interested to see what they do with the whole "Growing up in the Vault" idea. Hopefully as you progress through the intro sections you'll be able to alter things like your character's relationship with others, even your father. I'd love this to be the game where Bethesda finally creates some proper NPC Interaction and characterisation, something which has been a weak point of pretty much every one of their games. But I think the jury'll be out on that one til the game comes out :p

Still, if all else fails it's bound to be just as mod friendly as Oblivion and Morrowind, so give it 6-12 months and no one will be playing bog-standard retail edition anyway (Although at times I swear this makes Beth too lazy. "Meh, we could include that, but the fans will sort that one out asap").

[Tekar]

...

People hate handheld nukes...?

Why? Because it ruins the belivability of a world populated by giant ants and 'super mutants'?
Aw come on, that is *not* an argument. That's like saying it's ok to wield a 5m long sword in d&d because it has dragons. Why do people always come up with these "it's fantasy/sci-fi so everything goes" arguments?

[Dragor]

This is one thing I really don't like about forums, sometimes. Yes, we all don't want this game to be rubbish, but simply saying "Well, they're going to mess it up by doing A, B and C" isn't going to be better. Just be optimistic people- bitching about what you think will be bad about it won't make anything better.

[ravenkith]

Yeah, bitching isn't going to solve anything....

but they say that sharing makes any burden easier to bear...and obviously people care about this franchise a lot.

Me included.

Still, if you didn't like Oblivion, I'd reccomend you don't buy Fallout 3. After all, it's going to be based on the same engine, and have a first person view.

If you just want to go back and revisit that world, and don't care about the interface....

Well, I think that part's in pretty good hands.

[Morty]

If you just want to go back and revisit that world, and don't care about the interface....

Well, I think that part's in pretty good hands.

I'd say no. Bethseda already shown they don't care about continuity in their games -Imperial Province in TES is supposed to be tropical forests, not classical european-like land- so I won't be surprised if they change Fallout world. And I doubt these changes will be for better.

[ravenkith]

Ah....but are there any better hands out there?

With Interplay all but dead and buried...

Is a game made by bethsoft preferable to no game whatsoever?

I say thee YEA!

[Dragor]

I'd say no. Bethseda already shown they don't care about continuity in their games -Imperial Province in TES is supposed to be tropical forests, not classical european-like land- so I won't be surprised if they change Fallout world. And I doubt these changes will be for better.

I've already seen screenshots of the world. They're very Fallout, and very beautiful (in an ironic sort of way).

[Morty]

I've already seen screenshots of the world. They're very Fallout, and very beautiful (in an ironic sort of way).

Those are just screenshots. Gameworld is more than just graphics and outlook.

[Dragor]

Nope, it was all in-game. Showed most of what the Vault looked like, characters, the aiming system and the first city (Megaton).

Why all the "Oh its gonna suck" attitude? Chins up!

[....]

Have you seen the pics of the fellow with the Vault jumpsuit and the ****ty old rifle slung over his back? Smexy.

And, just the clear this up, I've beaten Fallout 2 and played most of Fallout 1, and I look forward to 3 eagerly.

I think the fanbois are all just worried you won't have the option to have sex with every one/thing you meet.

[Morty]

I think the fanbois are all just worried you won't have the option to have sex with every one/thing you meet.

I don't know if I count as "fanboy", but I'm personally more worried that Fallout 3 will be FPS pretending to be RPG, which is highly probable due to the fact that it's being made by the authors of Oblivion. Plus, some features I've heard about are so mind-suckingly dumb that I only hope they're just rumors. And it's going to be released on Xbox, which doesn't fill me with optimism either.

[Dragor]

Plus, some features I've heard about are so mind-suckingly dumb that I only hope they're just rumors.

Explain. :smalltongue: Seriously, I haven't heard anything extremely sucky so far.

[Morty]

I've heard of some device that can be used to shoot literally anything as explosives. I've heard of dolls that can be used to raise stats. I've heard of something named suck-o-tron. I've heard of minigames. Frome these, the first on is confirmed here (http://pc.ign.com/articles/800/800570p2.html) the other two supposedly as well, though I haven't found them. but knowing Todd Howard(chief of Bethseda) I wouldn't dismiss them. Also it's possible that the "dialogues" will look like in Oblivion, i.e there won't be any.

[Tom_Violence]

The mere fact that its going to be first-person really does speak volumes to me. One of the great appeals of RPGs in my opinion is the way the enable you to take a character from very humble beginnings and end up with a total badass at the end of it. And I find it very difficult to see and enjoy this progression if I can't see my character.

All that changes from a first person perspective is what weapon I'm carrying. And in Fallout that was never my main interest. In fact, in Fallout most of the weapons looked exactly the same, and half the time you weren't even carrying one. Who does this perspective appeal to and what are its plus points? Well, obviously its great if you like FPSs and action games.

[....]

The mere fact that its going to be first-person really does speak volumes to me. One of the great appeals of RPGs in my opinion is the way the enable you to take a character from very humble beginnings and end up with a total badass at the end of it. And I find it very difficult to see and enjoy this progression if I can't see my character.

All that changes from a first person perspective is what weapon I'm carrying. And in Fallout that was never my main interest. In fact, in Fallout most of the weapons looked exactly the same, and half the time you weren't even carrying one. Who does this perspective appeal to and what are its plus points? Well, obviously its great if you like FPSs and action games.

Actually, Bethesta said you'd be able to play in third-person style the whole time. Not the crappy "I-can't-hit-or-interact-with-anything" third person from Oblivion, but the over the shoulder view from RE4.

[Hermit]

Actually, Bethesta said you'd be able to play in third-person style the whole time. Not the crappy "I-can't-hit-or-interact-with-anything" third person from Oblivion, but the over the shoulder view from RE4.

And the Camera can be panned out to an overhead/iso style view as well.

[Sereneprophet]

Heres my opinion,

[Scrubbed]

(PS. This is in no way a flame of any kind towards anyone in particular

[Scrubbed. Saying a thing does not make it so. Naming a specific person is not required for it to be flaming.]

[The Evil Thing]

Well... that was certainly angry.:smallsmile:

I rather think you don't understand why everyone is so negative about Fallout 3. Most of the people who played it and liked it, liked it for some very specific reasons. If the impressions they receive from the designers are that few or none of those reasons are going to be present in the new game then it logically follows that those fans of the first two Fallouts won't enjoy this one.

Bethesda's track record doesn't help matters, either. Heck, if Ion Storm can't pull off a sequel to a game of their own creation (http://www.eidosgames.com/games/info.html?gmid=109) without royally screwing up just about every feature of it...

Please don't assume that irrational whiney fanbois are the only ones who are concerned about the way the game is going. We traditionalists are also worried. It's just that we're a little bit more eloquent. :smalltongue:

[Caelestion]

GUESS WHAT FRACKTARDS YOUR NOT MAKING THE GAME!
You know what? No matter how laudable your position may be or whether or not you're currently siding with the angels, screaming and shouting and swearing never won anybody anything positive. Misspelling never helped either.

[Morty]

Heres my opinion, which is the right one because you honestly cannot deny it.

Don't bash it till you can actually play it.

I can deny it. Every news about Fallout 3 ensures me that I won't enjoy this game.


(PS. This is in no way a flame of any kind towards anyone in particular, so if someone wants to take it personally thats their problem, since i'm not naming any names because I see no point in insulting people to get my my personal opinion out, even if its "uncouth". The rest of the world can act moronic 100% of the time, I figure I can act in a similar manner every once in awhile. Cheers ^^)

No, it is flame. In this post, you're calling me and many other people morons and fanboys and overall insult us because we dare to say that Bethseda is screwing Fallout over.

[Tom_Violence]

Okay, lets go through this joke of a post step by step, shall we? I've deleted the bits that weren't actually points because frankly they really shouldn't've been in there in the first place.


Heres my opinion, [Scrubbed]

I've never been to Baghdad, but I can safely say that I do not want to spend my summer holiday there. Why? Because I've seen the news! Moreover, this is a game that doesn't yet exist, so in actuality we're not 'bashing' it, we're speculating about how much Besthesda may ruin something that we've been anticipating for years.


[Scrubbed]

Bing! Thank you, but no one is calling for them to re-release Fallout 1 or 2. We own those games already. But if you're calling us stupid for wanting this game to be in the spirit of a couple of games from the late 90s (i.e. the games that its a fricking sequel to!) then I am going to have to seriously question your truth-discerning abilities.


[Scrubbed]

Congratulations! You win today's Missing The Point Tremendously award! The mere fact that its in there is the point, not that 'we'd have to use it' or whatever you think is going on. Perhaps if the point was about them sticking dragons and magic in and making the FEV actually the result of some ancient voodoo curse then you'd be able to follow a bit better. Hand-held nukes are not Fallout!


[Scrubbed]

Its "you're", not "your".


[Scrubbed]

If that's the case, which I don't think it is, I have the right to bitch and moan as much as I like about their 'creative freedoms'.


[Scrubbed]

I'm not quite sure what your point is here - are you admitting that they'll likely be changing fundamental aspects of Fallout to make it appeal to a wider audience? I don't weigh 400 pounds, I weigh about 12 stone, and I still want Fallout 3 to be different to how it seems to be panning out. Its not a question of 'will this be a good game?'. Once again you've missed the point. Its a case of 'will be this a game that deserves to bear the Fallout name?'.


[Scrubbed]

Lovely. And the last sentence there makes no sense at all. "I may be an idiot, but if there's one thing I'm not it's an idiot."


(PS. This is in no way a flame of any kind towards anyone in particular, [Scrubbed]

No, its not a flame against one person because you cleverly didn't mention names. Instead you called us all stupid and wished death upon us. Much better.

[Moderator note: If you could please just report flaming and not reply to it that would be great. And if you do reply to it, please don't parse it into individual sentences. Each one has to be scrubbed manually. Ugh. Thanks.]

[Artemician]

Whoa whoa.. Sereneprophet, chill out, man.

When a game is made, some people will not like it. A portion of these people, who inevitably exist, will compain about it, for reasons I will not speculate about.

There is nothing that their complaints will achieve. However, getting angry at their complaints will achieve nothing either. So, just sit back and take solace in the fact that they'll probably wind up buying the game anyway.

To the people who complain: If you don't like it, don't buy it. This is my playgroup's solution to books we don't like (Complete Champion, Spell Compendium, etc). No point griping about it, it's not as if they stop you from playing the games you like.

Anyway, regarding the topic of this thread.

I have never played the Fallout games before. However, from what I see on this thread, it looks to be an interesting genre. Fallput 3 intrigues me as well. One of my dreams, is to be able to play a FPRPG, and Fallout 3 appears to fit. I'll check it out, when it's released.

[Morty]

To the people who complain: If you don't like it, don't buy it. This is my playgroup's solution to books we don't like (Complete Champion, Spell Compendium, etc). No point griping about it, it's not as if they stop you from playing the games you like.

It's not just game we're not going to like. It's another part of the great game series that''s more and more likely to be Fallout only by the name. So I'd say we've got the right to complain.


I have never played the Fallout games before. However, from what I see on this thread, it looks to be an interesting genre. Fallput 3 intrigues me as well. One of my dreams, is to be able to play a FPRPG, and Fallout 3 appears to fit. I'll check it out, when it's released.

Before F3 is released, I heartily recommend playing previous Fallouts, especially Fallout 2. They don't have awesome 3D graphic and uber cool features, but they're great. And by now they can be bought really cheap.

[Artemician]

It's not just game we're not going to like. It's another part of the great game series that''s more and more likely to be Fallout only by the name. So I'd say we've got the right to complain.


I see where you're coming from. However, if the series is as awesome as you claim, then Fallout 3, if it's really so bad, will merely be a blip on a good series; it will not be of any consequence.

For example, I don't like Fate/Hollow Ataraxia because it breaks canon. However, I dont' go around griping about it, I just do not buy it. Endof.

Just relax about whether or not the game lives up to its predecessors and, well.. as someone said earlier, be glad there's a sequel at all.



Before F3 is released, I heartily recommend playing previous Fallouts, especially Fallout 2. They don't have awesome 3D graphic and uber cool features, but they're great. And by now they can be bought really cheap.

Thanks for the suggestions, I think I'll go and take a look next time I visit the games store.

[Penguinizer]

I'm somewhat awatingly curious. I might just pick it up, or borrow it from a friend. It looks like a better version of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. to be honest.

[Tom_Violence]

I see where you're coming from. However, if the series is as awesome as you claim, then Fallout 3, if it's really so bad, will merely be a blip on a good series; it will not be of any consequence.

Tragically, this is not the case. It will be the 5th game in the series (and the only true sequel), only 2 of which are agreed as awesome.

What would ignoring it do for us? We've waited a very long time for this.

[Dant]

Well, I can honestly say I loved the first two games, and from what I've seen and heard so far, Fallout 3 is looking good. The nuke slingshot thing is the only bit I'm uneasy about. Other than that though, the gameplay screens and such all seem very Fallout-y.

Now, I'm not a fanboy. So I'll reference one of my friends, who is a rabid Fallout fanboy. His opinion? Looks like it's going to be good. Seriously, I'm not sure why everyone is flipping out over this. This is Fallout 3, not Brotherhood of Steel.

[psycojester]

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2286

That kind of thing worries me that. Its Fallout not generic action shooter #3, if you don't get the concept don't buy the franchise.

[Kranden]

most likely its going to be somewhat like Elder scroll oblivion IV. If it can keep fallouts charm and humor along with the feeling of "Damn, this could totally happen." It will be a good game. I doubt it will keep the same combat system as fallout 1-2, I just don't think it will happen. This game will either rock our world or hopefully be forgotten soon as we try to purge all memory of it from our minds. Sequels made years later by a different group can have bad results. Any of the Final fantasy 7 sequels? /wrists.

[Sereneprophet]

Bahh my apologies, Ive just gotten fed up with such stuff even though its still so early in development and whatnot, and it just frustrates me and confuses me that people can have such anger and poor expectations on a game that really isn't even playable by the public in any form.

I mean to me it still screams Fallout, save you can actually feel it more than just seeing it. Sure things have changed somewhat, I don't see why they wouldn't. Beth is taking advantage of everything current hardware allows, and from the things i've read so far, it seems to me they are doing their best to at the very least capture the fallout feel.

The power armor still looks like it did in 1 and 2, save you can see it all up close and personal this time. Mutants look more mutant like, not as cartoon as they did in 1+2, and things like that.

And who knows where the mini nuke will fit in, it may be there just to goof around with, which is in part the essence of a fallout game, anyone remember the goofy movie homages/spoofs, etc?

I mean I guess to me it frustrates me most cause people who are already dissing the game, saying they wont play it, might miss out on something that will be a joy to play, just because of some preconceived notions about how something "should" be, and how Oblivion was and how this will be just like it, even though the graphics engine itself has already shown change this time around, with character faces looking less semi creepy and more realistic and detailed.

I dunno, when I read stuff about it, I get psyched, cause one, it sounds like an awesome game, and two, its fallout, and they seem to be giving alot of effort to, like I said before at the very least give it the same vibe. That nuclear scare era feel.

So yeah, I went overboard, but heh, thats what happens when its 4 in the morning and your cranky, not that its any excuse, so yep *shrug*.

[Tekraen]

Oooh, Fallout. I'm looking forward to this one, just like I did to Fallout 2. I do find it interesting they're adding a Davy Crockett into the game. If it's to kill a beastie, it's definitely going to be big enough that a Crockett can hit it at minimum range and not kill the player.

[psycojester]

Mutants look more mutant like, not as cartoon as they did in 1+2, and things like that.

You're not getting the whole 50's retro-futurist thing are you?