Help me build: TWF Warrior (Western Musashi / Swordmaster)

[Cadhríalaun]

Well hello to everyone. I've been away from D&D for a bit and my group is now getting back on the horse with our own homebrew campaing setting (a collective effort somewhat). Our campaign starts at lvl 3 and the idea is to get us to lvl20 eventually. We went with 4d6 dice roll and I pretty much lucked out big time (I wish I could have saved these rolls for a Casino or something... but I digress): 16 16 16 16 15 14

With this set up, I decided to go for a concept of a lone wandering warrior kind of guy, a mix of Aragorn and master ronin swordsman (such as a western Musashi). He is a formerly elite soldier descended from an ancient line of kings of a nation known for the discipline of their warriors who has set out to explore the world in pursuit of an impossible quest.

This is the fluff, now for the crunch: I understand twf has become a suboptimal build for fighters, at least in later levels, but I wonder if multiclassing can somewhat counter that? The most important to me it's it fits the concept and works as an effective frontline warrior and dmg dealer. I considered dipping into ranger and paladin as well to have 3 fighting styles, twg, gwf and defense. I even have a write up of his bio here:

You are the last living scion of the ancient and legendary Anathión bloodline. Both of your parents were illustrious heroes of the Kinslaying War, sadly lost to you at a young age. You could have lived under the shadow of this legacy but that is not the Aediáth way. On your mother's will it was stated that you should be raised by your father's former mentor and most loyal friend, High Lord Earnan Pendruth, which came to be the High Prince of the Realm. Lord Earnan was conscious of the weight of the Anathión line and put a sword in your hand not much later than you took your first steps. You were also taught how to read and write and educated on Aediáth history and philosophy.

Still a boy you were admitted as a recruit in the prestigious Warrior Order of Highdawn; a great honor and nothing short of what would be expected of an Anathión. The weight of your name meant tutors had a high bar for you, and your time at the academy was demanding and trying. Yours was an insolent temper by nature, and the Aediáth sheer discipline felt oppressive at times. Nonetheless you did your duty and honored the Anathión name by being raised to the rank of Parhaol Sentry at the young age of seventeen.

At last you found comfort and freedom in the ranging expeditions in the mountains, and in facing the fearsome Varynj in battle. This taste of freedom was not enough, however, and your restless soul thirsted for more. Volunteering for the most daring missions earned you respect and rank amongst the Sentries, the epithet "the Vigilant" - due to your keen eyes and sharp judgment - and most importantly, an early honorable discharge of active duty. Most expected you to follow in the footsteps of your ancestors and take up the ancient seat of Ithail’Draec, or Dragon Fall in the common tongue.

Instead, you surprised your peers and the man who fostered you, Lord Earnan, by taking up leadership of the uncertain quest of finding the long lost relics of Ancient Cadhríalon: the sword Soldhureith - The Lawgiver, the spear Loccithiath - The Lightbringer and the Banner of the Silver Dragon. Many had been trying since before the Thulseor Wars, but after the Fall of Illyria and the chaotic century that followed, the Circle of High Priestesses felt the people would benefit from the restoration of these old symbols of hope. Most of all, they really wished to prevent losing more men to this trying quest and decided to put a call for a single champion to lead a small band of heroes in the first such endeavor formally sanctioned by the Great Councils and the Triad of Temples. This would also be the only mission of the sort, as the High Priestesses were wary of seeing generation after generation of would be heroes being lost to the world.

You had the honour of being the victor of the contest held to find this quest’s leader. Unfortunately however, over the course of the last year one by one of your men either fell in battle or were lost in some way or another, until you were the only one to remain. Some would find no shame in returning home and declaring the endeavor a failure as your simple survival can be seen as a personal success of sorts. Regardless, you will see your duty till the very end. Or so you prefer to claim. Deep down, you enjoy immensely the freedom of traveling the world in pursuit of a fool's quest which cannot ever succeed.

With all of this info at hand, how better to optimise this concept I ask of you fellow gamers?

[Specter]

For the Fighter bit, Battlemaster seems to have been made with samurais in mind: maneuvers along with artisan's tools. But, Champion is not ruled out, since with more attacks than usual, the bigger the crit chances.

Wilderness expert means either Ranger or Rogue expertising Survival and maybe Perception. Hunter's Mark with TWF can be beast, especially against a single target, and especially with Action Surge. At Fgt5/Rgr2, it's 4d8+4d6+16 (assuming 18STR or DEX), for an average of 48dmg without even adding the Fgt archetype in the mix. At Rgr3, there's also Colossus Slayer for the extra d8. No more than 4 ranger levels, though.

With Rogue it's hit-and-run, but with good damage as well, Swashbuckler adding massively to initiative, mobility and single-target damage.

Paladin doesn't bring much to the table: that first level is very bad, and a third fighting style doesn't add anything great to you. Vengeance might be nice for the concept, though.

As a final build, I'd go Battlemaster 16/Hunter 4, with Dual Wielder, Resilient (WIS) and Lucky (or the new Blade Mastery from UA if allowed). I can see a cascade of dice hitting the table.

[Cadhríalaun]

Thanks so much for the ideas. I see we're countrymen as well, nice to meet another D&D player from Brazil here.

Anyhow, I see 2 possible builds with your advice in mind:

Either start off as a ranger with 2 weapon fighting style and the dual wielder feat, than switch to fighter for the great weapon fighting style and have him be a master of swordfighting

OR

Start off as fighter, go with it for a few levels and then dip into ranger for the defensive fighting style and boost AC, leaving the Greatsword alone.

Very good point with the Blade Mastery feat from UA. Had not taken notice yet of these new feats and the variant rules they are posting online.

[Specter]

Thanks so much for the ideas. I see we're countrymen as well, nice to meet another D&D player from Brazil here.

Anyhow, I see 2 possible builds with your advice in mind:

Either start off as a ranger with 2 weapon fighting style and the dual wielder feat, than switch to fighter for the great weapon fighting style and have him be a master of swordfighting

OR

Start off as fighter, go with it for a few levels and then dip into ranger for the defensive fighting style and boost AC, leaving the Greatsword alone.

Very good point with the Blade Mastery feat from UA. Had not taken notice yet of these new feats and the variant rules they are posting online.

Hey, don't mention it.

Grabbing a second melee fighting style is, alas, almost pointless. You would need to boost 2 stats for that to work, with no real advantage. Hunter's Mark especially makes as many attacks as you get the better. So I'd say take the latter option. With Dual Wielder and Defense, it would be as if you had a shield in hand. Fighter 5/Ranger 3/Fighter 6/Ranger 4/Fighter 16 sounds like a good progression.

Out of curiosity, where in Brazil are you from?

[Cadhríalaun]

Gotcha, makes a lot of sense.
Currently in Sao Paulo city, what about yourself?

[djreynolds]

You know, our DM played a barbarian actually and fluffed it as a samurai. It worked. Add in some battlemaster, this could be a solution to you

[Sparkle_Lord]

With your stats you can multiclass into literally every class, which is nice.

I'm guessing you're going more for an elegant samurai you see in movies, over the armored head-hunter soldiers they were for most of their history.
Real samurai were hardcore; basically Spartans.
Personally I'd go Monk 1, Rogue Assassin 3(+), and Fighter Battlemaster 12(+).

Monk because, not only will their Martial Arts skill allow you to use Dexterity as your main attack stat while using longswords as 'monk weapons', it also helps initiative letting you go earlier in combat. You'll want to go first. Killing an enemy caster before they even take a turn is the best feeling in the world.

Samurai were more than swordsmen, they were prodigious horseback archers.
Pumping dexterity makes using a bow a viable ranged backup weapon, and a few Battlemaster maneuvers even work with ranged weapons which is awesome. Flexibility is always nice.

With your stats Unarmored defence is superior to heavy armor. Even better, take the duel wielding feat for a bonus +1, giving a potential total of 21 AC without magical items.
Great right? That's equal to Platemail, a shield and the defence fighting style, at the cost of your fourth multiattack at 20 and your d12 superiority dice. Worth it.

Rogue 3 nets you an extra skill, two expertise skills (I'd make one perception for the whole 'I sense killing aura(!)' schtick.), 2d6 sneak attack damage, advantage while attacking first, Critical hits on surprise rounds and the ability to Disengage(!!)/Dash/Hide as a bonus action. Again, a lovely array of abilities that boost what you do with minimal leveling.
Like Martial Arts and Unarmored Defence, Assassinate is thematically appropriate. Sort of a 'first to strike, first to kill' thing.

Equipment-wise, I'd go main hand Longsword (Katana) and off hand Dagger (Tanto)/ Short sword (Wakizashi). That way your main attacks work off the superior damage dice of the longsword and your TWF bonus attack triggers sneak attack damage.
Make sense? A cool combo you could do would be use the manuver 'Trip attack' on your main attack to grant you advantage for when you attack with your finesse weapon, ensuring a sneak attack.
The synergy of Battlemaster with Rogue is that you can trigger advantage by simply using one superiority dice.

As for maneuvers: Trip attack, Riposte, and Disarming strike all work. Parry is alright thematically, but not the best use of your reaction. Riposte with your AC is better.


Leveling I'd go:
Level 1: Monk 1
Level 5: Monk 1, Fighter 4
Level 10: Monk 1, Fighter 5, Rogue 3, Fighter 1

Starting at lvl 1 as a monk gives you Dex save proficiency, which will help when the part caster ignores your safety and lobs a fireball into the crowd.
Fighters get Con save proficiency at lvl 1 (the main use being concentration and death saves), but with your potential AC going down should be a rare occurence. You also won't cast I assume.

You'll gain six ability score improvements going Fighter 16. Plenty to pump up your Dexterity and wisdom to 20.
As for feats, Alert is nice for synergy with Assassinate, but is low priority. You'll want the Duel wielder feat as well.


Anyways, good luck. I'm currently procrastinating on something and this was a fun diversion to think about.

[djreynolds]

Yes this works as well. He could literally have a 16 in strength/dex/wis/con.

I just like the feel of a samurai yelling and barreling down on someone with big two-handed swipes, and then pulling out a small short sword and twin long/short sword.

Lots of potential with stats like this.

I like the barbarian over the monk, but either one works.

And since he can finesse the short sword, he could use defensive duelist later on, coupled with rage it would be long before he died for his master.

So much to work with.

[Sparkle_Lord]

Yes this works as well. He could literally have a 16 in strength/dex/wis/con.

I just like the feel of a samurai yelling and barreling down on someone with big two-handed swipes, and then pulling out a small short sword and twin long/short sword.

Lots of potential with stats like this.

I like the barbarian over the monk, but either one works.

And since he can finesse the short sword, he could use defensive duelist later on, coupled with rage it would be long before he died for his master.

So much to work with.

Barbarian indeed works. Even better, Rage damage is added each hit you make with a strength modified weapon. Also, sneak attack works with Dex or Strength so long as it has the Finesse tag.
I'd go Barbarian 2 and leave it at that. Danger sense is nice and so is everything past Barbarian 3, but you'll want a fighter's multi-attack asap and putting too many points in multiclassing means you'll get the third attack rather late in the game.

[Axorfett12]

Personally I feel that Barbarians make the best Samurai without multiclassing. Were I to build for this concept, I'd go Barbarian 16/Fighter 2/Spell-less Ranger 2. (Unearthed Arcana, Class Design Variants) Select the Dual Wielder feat as usual. Use a Longsword and a Shortsword. Pick up Defensive Duelist if you feel you need more defense.

For progression I would start with Fighter, take 5 levels of barb, multiclass to ranger for 2 levels, then go back for the 2nd level of fighter and take the rest barb. I feel Strength is the best build here, as you get to use Reckless Attack and the rage bonus damage, though Dex is perfectly viable with your stats. (As a note I'm not the best at optimizing build progression so if I screwed up here let me know)

I'd take the Path of the Totem Warrior at 3rd level. This is mostly because Frenzy is completely worthless when two weapon fighting, but going totem also grants you some useful nature rituals. See if you can refluff the level 3 Eagle totem, level 6 Tiger totem, and level 14 Eagle totem abilities as a Dragon totem. Tiger totem is from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

Fighter levels give you the Defense or Mariner (UA Waterborne) style, depending on whether you want to wear armor or not.

For the Ranger portion, select the two weapon fighting style, and take whatever maneuvers you like best. My picks would be Evasive Footwork and Precision Attack.

The final result, even if strength based, is a mobile, evasive warrior who dances through the battlefield in a whirlwind of steel and death. At higher levels he can even fly, a serpentine ribbon of draconic might, devouring all who stand before him.

That's my two cents, take it as you will. Excellent character concept, design, and backstory. However you decide to build him, it should be interesting.

[Specter]

Gotcha, makes a lot of sense.
Currently in Sao Paulo city, what about yourself?

I'm actually in Curitiba! Give us a heads up if you're ever around and need a table :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: If going Ranger don't forget Absorb Elements, great spell.

[Joe the Rat]

Personally I feel that Barbarians make the best Samurai without multiclassing. Were I to build for this concept, I'd go Barbarian 16/Fighter 2/Spell-less Ranger 2. (Unearthed Arcana, Class Design Variants) Select the Dual Wielder feat as usual. Use a Longsword and a Shortsword. Pick up Defensive Duelist if you feel you need more defense.
I first encountered the idea here, and it's been working out very well for our "Samurai." He's opting for the Greatsword / No Dachi (so a little nontraditional), but he plays the exotic foreigner honor swordsman (and murderhobo) well.

[Axorfett12]

I first encountered the idea here, and it's been working out very well for our "Samurai." He's opting for the Greatsword / No Dachi (so a little nontraditional), but he plays the exotic foreigner honor swordsman (and murderhobo) well.

With a little reflufing at does work very well. Rage is your battle trance of extreme focus rather than extreme fury. Reckless Attack is a form that offers great offensive benefits, but leaves you open. A calculated risk rather than one made "recklessly". The NoDachi is how I would prefer to build, but the OP specifically asked for TWF. As is the build can use action surge to Reckless Attack five times for 4d8+1d6+45. Not too shabby.

[Cadhríalaun]

Whoa!

Thanks for the replies guys! Lots of interesting and out of the box ideas to work with here.

@Sparkle_Lord

I really liked your suggestion to to mix some monk in... It's a class I never played nor actually took a really hard look at. I'm from the time of AD&D 2nd Ed and monks always felt a little alien to me. I know it's actually older than AD&D 2nd Ed, but I only really saw them myself by 3rd Ed and I never knew what to make of them at the time. I was an obnoxious kid at the time and felt they were not "traditional fantasy" enough for me. It's silly, I know... :smallredface:

Anyhow, that could definitely work, although, tbh, I never had a problem with the more historically grounded Samurai concept. Actually when you said Spartan that jumped at me: I could really envision this guy with medium armor: iron breastplate, greaves and bracers, leather and a hooded cloak. I worked on a heromachine image for it, but my post count is still too low to post it. If anybody is interested I have a deviantart profile (An-C: an-c(dot)deviantart(dot)com) in which I saved the image, the name of the image is Airell the Vigilant (the name of the character).

@djreynolds and Axorfett12

Very interesting suggestions with the Barbarian class, I had not thought about it for sure. And this is a seriously awesome mental image:


I just like the feel of a samurai yelling and barreling down on someone with big two-handed swipes, and then pulling out a small short sword and twin long/short sword.

What was your DM's build for it?

Speaking of awesome mental images, this...:


The final result, even if strength based, is a mobile, evasive warrior who dances through the battlefield in a whirlwind of steel and death. At higher levels he can even fly, a serpentine ribbon of draconic might, devouring all who stand before him.

I'll play around with the forged anvil character generator tonight, you guys gave me plenty to think about.

[Cadhríalaun]

I'm actually in Curitiba! Give us a heads up if you're ever around and need a table :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: If going Ranger don't forget Absorb Elements, great spell.

Awesome! I'm actually from Curitiba myself! Still visit quite often to see friends and family. My first RPG ever was purchased from Rocky Raccoon... Heard they were back in business in the same address they had back in the 90s.