Best Class for Group of 5 all the same class

[WereRabbitz]

What would be your suggestion for a group that is made up of all the same class? Everyone must maintain their class until level 12 and then Muticlassing is an option. So it has to be a pretty universal class, but different Colleges, oaths, schools,ect... can all be picked.


PHB, SCAG, or UA

At level 6 what would be the idea for Encounters, Healing, and Trap disarming?

Standard Point Buy in.

They can be all the same race or different doesn't matter only restriction is at Level 5 they will all be the same 6 levels in the same class.

Thanks for any feed back this will be used to research a themed campaign i'm working on for what Classes could best work in a group or which would be a poor decision play wise.

[Aembrosia]

Gut check: bard.

[CaptainSarathai]

For 5 of the same, I'd also go Bard for sure, maybe even toss in some/all Half Elves.
Paladins could also do well though, I think, and again Half Elf works well here.

Bards can reliably do a little of everything, and do it well.
Paladins can go either Strength and make up their AC with Prof in Heavy Armor, or go Dex-built. They don't start with any ranged weapons, but they're proficient in everything. Vumans can get over being a bit MAD by not boosting con and relying on either Toughness or the feat for Resist3 in heavy.
Have 2 people dump Wis for Int, everyone else dumps Int as usual. They have a boatload of healing built in with Lay On Hands (25pts/char, iirc). Use Backgrounds for Skill proficiencies, and at least 1 Half Elf goes Criminal/Spy for a Thieves kit.

[stringless]

Five barbarians, obviously.

As a bull-in-a-china-shop campaign.

[JellyPooga]

My immediate thought is 5 Rogues; one of each archetype.

[Specter]

Bard for sure. Between Lore, Valor, feats and Magical Secrets, each one can fill a role adequately.

[MrStabby]

Cleric for me.

Knowledge, trickery, tempest, life and Arcana.

Swap arcana for war if you need another tank.

The party can always spring back into action, you have stealth, resilience, offensive spells and control spells all covered. Massive amounts of utility.

[BW022]

What would be your suggestion for a group that is made up of all the same class?

Three options... bard, cleric, and warlock.

Each group needs to cover off four general roles -- fighter, cleric, wizard, and rogue.

Backgrounds, races, and feats often take care of gaining skills, weapon proficiencies, armor, and (if necessary)

Bard

This is likely the easiest. It is the universal 'jack-of-all-trades' type class. You have most skills by role covered since you can choose any, plus expertise in each.

1. Fighter. College of valor quickly gets you weapons, medium armor, and shields. At 6th, with valor school, you have multiple attacks. Take a strength-based race (say half-orc), heavy armor and then war-caster feat. Still, you aren't bad.

2. Cleric. You have a lot of the key clerical spells. No real problem there. Go lore for some additional spells,

3. Rogue. Easy for the skills, more difficult to accomplish the damage. Valor for multiple attacks might help as would lore to get say hunter's mark or hex and go for a ranger-type build. Other option would be to gain say eldritch blast and hex through a feat and rely on blasting that way. Background and skills easily provide stealth, thieves tools, perception, and other rogue/scouting type skills.

4. Wizard. Fairly easy. Lore college gives you the larger blasting spells. Ritual casting feat helps with many of the ritual spells. You have the knowledge skills covered.

Overall, likely the best of the three options. Good fighter, good cleric, reasonable rogue, and reasonable wizard coverage.


Cleric

Slightly harder. You are typically relying on domains and backgrounds to cover roles.

1. Fighter. You can cover these through the war domain. Take the martial adept feat for some abilities. Lack of extra attacks is an issue, but you'll have lots of buffs from other party members.

2. Cleric. Done.

3. Rogue. Trickery domain, criminal background, and lots of dexterity is good. Medium armor or light armor is fine. Increasing your damage output is hard, but you can use some buffing spells.

4. Wizard. Arcana or knowledge domains give some spells. You could add ritual caster (for most non-combat spells) or even magic initiate. Take the big damaging spells such as flame strike.

Overall, not bad, but definitely a second choice over bards. Reasonable fighter, great cleric, but poor rogue, and poor wizard coverage.


Warlock

The third, and somewhat unusual choice.

1. Fighter. Go for a strength-based blade-lock class. Mountain dwarf or variant human (medium armor feat) and then add the heavy armor feat at 4th-level. Soldier background for the skills. Bladelock gets the pact weapon (3rd) and multiple attacks (5th).

2. Cleric. Much more difficult without multi-classing to get a cure or healing word spell. False life at will one minor option as is healer feat or magic initiate feat (only once per day though). Some of the pacts have some cleric-like spells and certainly some buffs. Take pact of the tome for the clerical rituals.

3. Rogue. Criminal background on an elf or something gets you the skills. Various invocations actually give you some stealth bonus abilities (such as seeing in the dark, darkness spells, etc.) as does the fey patron. Multiple eldritch blasts and hex would likely be your primary alternative to sneak attack and should give reasonable damage output. Devil's sight and darkness would be good combinations to help enhance the damage potential. Likely equal to a rogue in damage output in most cases.

4. Wizard. Fiend patron plus pact of tome of the gives you most of the blasting spells and all of the rituals.

Overall, not bad, but definitely a second choice over bards. Good fighter, reasonable rogue, good wizard, but poor cleric coverage.

[MrStabby]

Not so diverse but druid also has a lot to offer. Huge range of spells through different terrains. Animal forms cover scouting. Spells do damage, control and healing. Wildshape can cover tanking.

[ZX6Rob]

My immediate thought is 5 Rogues; one of each archetype.

This was going to be my suggestion, too. I was talking with a friend earlier, and we thought it'd be fun to roll a game where all the players were members of a thieves' guild, each with a different specialty. I think the Rogue is one of the most varied classes in 5e -- it would be an interesting game.

[Shining Wrath]

Bard was the first thing that came to mind.
Given the variety among Domains, Cleric is probably second.
After that the half-casters: both Rangers and Paladins can fight, Rangers can be sneaky, Paladins can be social.

[Black Socks]

*Puts in 2 cents*

Since bards are supposed to be the jack-of-all-trades class (they even have an ability named Jack of All Trades), I would recommend them. Each player could focus on a different aspect of the bard, for example; tank, skill-monkey, face, healer, and caster.

[Belac93]

Bard: 2 valor tanks, 1 valor archer, 1 lore healer, 1 lore control, 1 lore everything else.
Warlock: Fiend blade, Undying Blade, Fiend Chain, Fey tome, GOO tome.
Barbarian: Wolf, eagle, bear, elk, tiger (for funnies).

[2D8HP]

Five barbarians, obviously.

As a bull-in-a-china-shop campaign.
:biggrin:
JUST SO FREAKIN' METAL!
(By Crom, please someone start this as a PbP.
Demon Dogs!
Dibs on the name Thundarr!)


Thundarr the Barbarian! (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhAobPugvsk)
"The year, 1994. From out of space, comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Earth and the moon, unleashing cosmic destruction. Man's civilization is cast in ruin. Two thousand years later, Earth is reborn. A strange new world rises from the old. A world of savagery, super-science, and sorcery. But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice. With his companions, Ookla the Mok and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Sunsword, against the forces of evil. He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!"
:wink:

[Addaran]

Fighters!
Dex S&B, Archer, Two-handed, something banneret and EK.

The dex S&B and the archer can stealth. Everyone can "tank". Banneret with inspiring healer for "healer" wich won't be that needed since you can distribute the damage in roughtly 5 equal parts. Just make sure everyone have a med kit. Ek with possibly ritual caster for all your spellcasting needs. You could even do with just 4. =O


Paladin or ranger should also be perfect. No specialist, but they can all tank, do damage, heal. Scouting just need a race with darkvision and dex build. Aoe damage, ranger do well and paladin can probably do okay with some spells(?) or just with everyone having 2 attacks.

[CaptainSarathai]

I was talking with a friend earlier, and we thought it'd be fun to roll a game where all the players were members of a thieves' guild, each with a different specialty. I think the Rogue is one of the most varied classes in 5e -- it would be an interesting game.
'Oceans 11' style game FTW! That would be so awesome.
And that really brings up another point - you can make just about any class "work" in a themed campaign. You could make 5 Rangers work if you tailor the challenges to what they can handle. Keep them in the wilderness where Charisma matters less, and they'd be okay. I doubt that a party of Clerics is gonna do much sneaking around or lockpicking in an 'RP' sense.

[D.U.P.A.]

I would vote fighters too. With many feats at their disposal, they can make theirselves more versatile. If breaking into 4 standard classes:

Fighters: done
Cleric: getting a feat like Magic initiate or Healer, it may go on Cha route instead to grant temporary HP via maneuvers like Rally.
Rogue: Dex fighter
Wizard: Eldritch knight, maybe with Ritual casting feat

[JellyPooga]

For all the love that Bard's getting in this thread, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the notion of playing as a literal Band. Who cares whether they're Lore or Valour or what spells they choose? All that matters, surely, is who the Front-Man is, who's on Lead, Bass and Percussion and so forth.

The fact that this group of minstrels are also a bunch of murderous psychos Heroes, killing and slaying everything righting the wrongs in their path and looting and pillaging all they can carry collecting their just reward, is just PR for their spin doctor manager to promote them with.

[Grod_The_Giant]

With UA on the table, Fighters become more tempting. A Purple Dragon Knight with the Healer feat for a medic/face, a Scout or Monster Hunter for the Rogue, an Eldrich Knight with Ritual Caster for the wizard, a Battle Master for the fighter-fighter, and... one more of the party's choice; I'd recommend another Scout or Monster Hunter. As a bonus, you have different characters using different secondary stats-- Cha for the PDK, Int for the EK, Wis for the Monster Hunter...

Wizards could be neat too, though it might be too tempting to just copy each others' spellbooks. It's partly the same reason I don't like the all-Bard party; when everyone can kind of do everything, it becomes hard to focus.

[2D8HP]

I'm in the "tank" for an all Fighter party as well.
ASI's for everyone!
:amused:
(actually Fighter is my favorite class and I think this could work)

[JellyPooga]

I'm not really buying the argument for an all-Fighters team. I mean, aside from weapon choice which is largely interchangable, Fighter is hardly the most diverse Class. Most EK's are going to be choosing the same spells known, for example and the results they get are pretty much the same as any Battlemaster or Champion (I'm aware that this is a sweeping generalisation). As far as most non-combat aspects go, most of their their diversity will come from Background and Race, not Class.

The Rogue or Bard, on the other hand, actually offer some wildly different play styles as a function of their Class alone, with Race and Background providing further diversity.

I'm not saying that an all Fighter party will be badwrongfun or anything, just so long as you don't mind having largely similar function in the party as everyone else. The fun's in the playing, anyway, not the rolling.

[beargryllz]

5 Rogues or 5 fighters would all be awesome.

I'm leaning toward rogue overall.

[Fable Wright]

Not so diverse but druid also has a lot to offer. Huge range of spells through different terrains. Animal forms cover scouting. Spells do damage, control and healing. Wildshape can cover tanking.

This.

One Moon Druid is the scout that puts up Pass Without Trace for the whole party, then everyone else turns into varieties of spider and stealths after the leader with +17 to hide. Rogue role? Check.

Land Druid prepares Call Lightning, Moon Beam, Heat Metal, and/or Flaming Sphere? Ranged DPS check.

All of them with Goodberry and Healing Word? Cleric check.

Second Moon Druid takes a dip in Monk and/or Barbarian, maintains Conjure Animals? Tank check.

One land Druid takes Spike Growth, Speak with Plants, and Plant Growth? BFC check.

Last Land Druid takes Grasslands, has Haste and Enhance Ability? Buffer check.

So you've got a primary frontliner, a secondary frontliner with utility, three 'squishies' that have a broad variety of spells but can fill the other roles in a pinch... really, they're the most resilient and adaptable party you could probably throw together.

[Naanomi]

Rogues but don't try to cover every role fully, instead have a variety of 'roles' but option #1 is to sneak past everything. Same with a bard party; yes have varied roles but remember to talk your way past 90% of challenges first!

It wouldn't be terribly optimized but a 'one of each subclass' monk party would be playable

A team of wizards could probably take anything on if built right, especially past level 6 or so. Doubly so with bladsinger acting as tank

[smcmike]

Um, barbarians, for real.

Grug, the big hairy one. He uses a large axe to kill people.
Grog, the really big hairy one. He uses his large hands to kill people.
Grig, the smallest, hairiest one. He's still pretty big. He uses a spear and a shield to kill people.
Grag, the pretty one. He uses a big sword to kill people, and his chest to slay with the ladies.
Gryg. He isn't very big, and he's completely hairless. Don't mess with Gryg. Actually, don't talk to him at all. Seriously, don't even look over there.

[JellyPooga]

Um, barbarians, for real.

Grug, the big hairy one. He uses a large axe to kill people.
Grog, the really big hairy one. He uses his large hands to kill people.
Grig, the smallest, hairiest one. He's still pretty big. He uses a spear and a shield to kill people.
Grag, the pretty one. He uses a big sword to kill people, and his chest to slay with the ladies.
Gryg. He isn't very big, and he's completely hairless. Don't mess with Gryg. Actually, don't talk to him at all. Seriously, don't even look over there.

I always thought Grig played fiddle...

[Breltar]

Fighter, and here is why.

With UA you get those "Kits of Old" versions

Scout: Kinda a fighter that has some rogue and ranger options (playing one now in CoS)
Cavalier: Awesome for a mounted character, like a halfling with a mastiff.

With UA "Gothic Heroes"

Monster Hunter: Really cool for any setting and gets some interesting magic without having real spells.

With SCAG:
Purple Dragon Knight: To me the "other half" of warlord that the battlemaster has the other half of. Neat more "knightly" fighter.

With PHB:

Champion: Yeah it isn't the flashiest, but having improved criticals is great for a damage dealer, be it str or dex based.

Battlemaster: Superiority Die options means you can have two of these with wildly different styles, one could be a pseudo-swashbuckler, the other more of a sentinel commander.

Eldritch Knight: A spellcasting fighter, lots of options here as a dex based character could be very different than a str based one.

With many of these and with any "all one class" party, the diversity ends up coming from backgrounds, races and the stories the players make themselves. A High Elf Acolyte Purple Dragon Knight is going to be very different than a Half Orc Outlander Purple Dragon Knight at least thematically.

[Degwerks]

Warlocks. 5 of them each with Agonizing & Repelling Blast? Nothing will reach your party ever. Before they all multiclass in to Sorcerer or Bard, they'll a combined 15d10 +75 force damage blasts & 15d6 necrotic hex + 150ft of knockback lol.

Seriously though with all their patron/pact choices & invocations they can make it work. It will require a lot of planning and roleplay though.

[Hrugner]

It's really down to bard or cleric I think. With a party of five, the individual diversity of the bard class would leave you with overlap beyond what a party all the same class really needs. Cleric is more narrow and stronger in my opinion, so I'd stick with them. You could make other classes work, but I feel these two would require the least DM sympathy.

[Osrogue]

Clerics:

War (Front line spellcaster)
Knowledge (skill checks+primary buffer)
Life (healing all day eveey day)
Storm (front line fighter)
Arcana (wizard that's not a wizard)

[stringless]

Um, barbarians, for real.

Grug, the big hairy one. He uses a large axe to kill people.
Grog, the really big hairy one. He uses his large hands to kill people.
Grig, the smallest, hairiest one. He's still pretty big. He uses a spear and a shield to kill people.
Grag, the pretty one. He uses a big sword to kill people, and his chest to slay with the ladies.
Gryg. He isn't very big, and he's completely hairless. Don't mess with Gryg. Actually, don't talk to him at all. Seriously, don't even look over there.Precisely this, but they have to work together to resolve a high tension political dispute in the regional capital.

[Malifice]

For 5 of the same, I'd also go Bard for sure

http://www.1art1.de/images/imagel/f//f2708.jpg

5 bards?

Its a boy-band.

[Gwendol]

I'm surprised no-one has named wizards yet. "There's a spell for that"

Bladesinger (muscle), Illusionist (face), Diviner (oracle/tactician), evoker (demolition expert), and a fifth man selected from conjurer, necromancer, or transmuter.

I find all-rogue, or all-fighter to be extremely tempting. That said, an all monk party would be total badass: panda, tigress, monkey, crane, snake/cricket!

[Logosloki]

All druid would be my go to. The druid's two main draws (aside from the obvious in the versatility of wildshape) are that they have that excellent battlefield control with nearly all the important exploration spells. The only thing a druid needs is a component pouch or focus and they are good to go. Bring two or less moon druids for soak (one is probably enough so you have someone who can hulk out into an elemental later on) and fill up on land druids.

The exploration spells are the real clincher though since a party of five druids is for the most part self-sufficient. Druids have the good time travelling reducing spells, missing only fly and teleports.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm not really buying the argument for an all-Fighters team. I mean, aside from weapon choice which is largely interchangable, Fighter is hardly the most diverse Class. Most EK's are going to be choosing the same spells known, for example and the results they get are pretty much the same as any Battlemaster or Champion (I'm aware that this is a sweeping generalisation). As far as most non-combat aspects go, most of their their diversity will come from Background and Race, not Class.
Eh, better than five Rogues, who all have exactly the same combat strategies (Sneak Attack and disengage). I think a Scout and a Battlemaster are more distinct than a Thief and a Swashbuckler, for instance. You definitely need the UA subclasses, though.

No matter what you do everyone will have a largely similar function; the trick is finding classes who can easily emphasize different aspects, either through subclasses or spell/tactic choices-- but not choices that can be easily changed. Druids, for instance, are a generally poor choice-- sure, they're versatile enough to handle any aspect of the team, but when every druid can fill every role, things start to fall apart. A party of Wizards might start off diverse, but they can easily start stealing each other's spells once the money start flowing, at which point they're largely identical.

[smcmike]

Eh, better than five Rogues, who all have exactly the same combat strategies (Sneak Attack and disengage). I think a Scout and a Battlemaster are more distinct than a Thief and a Swashbuckler, for instance. You definitely need the UA subclasses, though.


I don't buy it. Rogues specialize with expertise and feats, as well as subclasses. Out of combat you'd have a large range of roles - the mechanic, the second-story man, the detective, the con man, and the scout. In combat they are flatter than some classes, but you can still have ranged specialists, skirmishes, and controllers - one of them is gonna be a strength rogue.

[Shining Wrath]

I've seen a couple of suggestions where people say "Class X with a multiclass dip ..." and all I can say is CHEATER CHEATER PUMPKIN EATER! That's not a party of 5 people with the same class, it's a party of 5 people with 2 or 3 or even 6 classes!

I pronounce a hearty "Feh!" upon all solutions that rely upon multi-classing.

I haven't seen anyone try sorcerer yet, so here goes.

I think social skills are overkill covered.
With a UA Favored Soul, Life Domain, you've got some healing capability.
Everyone takes Ritual Caster (almost a feat tax for sorcerers anyway) and that allows for a fair amount of utility.
Dexterity is normally one of the top 3 stats in a sorcerer build, one or two pick up lockpicking and stealth through a background, only the Favored Soul will wear clanky armor so the party as a whole ought to sneak pretty well.
Party does not have a good tank. Party does not need a good tank. Party blasts enemies into smoking piles of ashes in the first two rounds of most combats. The Favored Soul can hold the Pit Fiend off for long enough for everyone else to hit him with Twinned Blasts of Sorcerous Might.

[Telesto]

Whatever class the group feels they would enjoy playing.

This is 5e, not 3.5. You can get away with not having the standard party composition. You don't need a healer or a healer on a stick to survive like you did in 3.5, you're safe to all be casters, you're fine all being mundane. Just do whatever seems fun.

[WereRabbitz]

Awesome answers everyone thanks!

Myself I was thinking Paladin or Bard would be the #1 suggestion with a All Rogue group not far behind.


I was surprised by the Cleric/Fighter/Barbarian Suggestions showing up so many times.


Clerics can have a temple theme

Fighters could be a scouting party or small militant group

Barbarian could be raiders

Rogues could be a thieves guild or syndicate.

My favorites so far:
All fighters - this could even revive the champion route with the self healing capstone
All Barbarians - one for each totem animal almost like shaman's coming together to unite the tribes sort of things has a LOT of story to use.



I didn't see it mentioned really, but I thought a band of Rangers could be very deadly. Using a combination of the 3 paths could give you quite a bit.

Beast for Tank
2x Deep Stalker for Scouting/Ranged/dps
2x Hunter for DPS for Dual Wielding damage.

Rangers get a few healing spells & could be a very stealthy approach to combat.

[Gwendol]

I'd imagine Beast for scout/utility first, tank second. A party of rangers will likely never get caught or surprised, thus "always" have the opportunity to pick their battles.

[thorr-kan]

Five barbarians, obviously.

As a bull-in-a-china-shop campaign.
This has potential.

[KorvinStarmast]

Clerics:

War (Front line spellcaster)
Knowledge (skill checks+primary buffer)
Life (healing all day eveey day)
Storm (front line fighter)
Arcana (wizard that's not a wizard) Do you meant "Tempest" domain for Storm, or did they change that? (Seems to me Storm was a domain in 3?)

The all fighter group: great except at lower levels dealing with monsters like were rats that can only be hit by magical weapons ... how does a fighter get their weapon treated to do magical damage: (OK, all fighters have to carry one silvered back up weapon?)

I like the ideas on the all Druid group.

[smcmike]

I mostly like an all-Barb party for a fish-out-of-water theme that every character can take part in, hopefully in their own ways. 5 barbarians in the big city, and all that.

You also need to include a frenzy Barb with all your totems. He's the crazy one that even the other barbarians are afraid of.

[thorr-kan]

My immediate thought is 5 Rogues; one of each archetype.
That was my first thought as well. Thieves World? The Merry Men? The Black Company? CHECK!

Need DM buy in, since there will be some encounters that won't work.

[Joe the Rat]

The all fighter group: great except at lower levels dealing with monsters like were rats that can only be hit by magical weapons ... how does a fighter get their weapon treated to do magical damage: (OK, all fighters have to carry one silvered back up weapon?)Below 3? Lycanthropes are seriously bad news. pool funds for a silvered rapier (that way the dex fighters can use it as well as the str fighters. Have a High Elf or Half-High-Elf (Mellow Elf?) with a blasty. A Fire Genasi. Dragonborn for a warm-up. Variant Human Magic Initiate. Acid, oil, and Tavern Brawler with a flaming chair. 3+, the team of five has an Eldritch Knight.
This doesn't get the whole team up, but it does get someone who can damage the werebeasts, as opposed to just grappling them and knocking them over.

Fighter, Warlock... even all Monk can get by with a Healer feat or two. It's more patch-you-up than top you off, but it's cheap. You can start stocking pots as you level. Other than an EK, all of these are on short rest resources, so getting a break to reset your Healer (and maybe Second Wind) and drop a hit die or two should be an easy sell.

[JellyPooga]

Half-High-Elf (Mellow Elf?)

Love it. Inspired :smallbiggrin:

[thorr-kan]

I'll also add my voice to the ever popular God Squad. Multiple clerics are fun to roleplay, bring a plethora of abilities to the table, and are a hoot.

We ran one in 2ED in college. One of our most popular adventures.

[Citan]

What would be your suggestion for a group that is made up of all the same class? Everyone must maintain their class until level 12 and then Muticlassing is an option. So it has to be a pretty universal class, but different Colleges, oaths, schools,ect... can all be picked.


PHB, SCAG, or UA

At level 6 what would be the idea for Encounters, Healing, and Trap disarming?

Barring any multiclassing, I'd say Bard first, then Cleric / Druid / Paladin, then Wizard.

Bard is the easiest answer: both PHB and UA provide strong and flavorful archetypes, some melee-geared, others casting-geared, and you can tune your spelllist with Magical Secrets.

3 stand on the second place ex-aequo
Cleric gets a very slight edge because he gets many different domains which provide the required specialization (melee: Nature/War/Tempest, social: Knowledge, support: Life/Trickery, blaster: Light) and, while more geared towards pure support, still gets a few great offensive spells.

Paladin is also a very strong contender, thanks to Oath benefits and auras, leading to the benefit of possibly all auras available.
The great problem of Paladin is the total lack of ranged capability spellwise, and the defining feature works only in melee. Still, it can be done when need be.
If not for the "total melee-oriented" problem, Paladins would have been my first choice without any doubt.
(Also, if multiclassing allowed, totally first choice because that's the most balanced chassis, although the stat requirements are a pain).

Druid is often underrated, but Land Druid can still boast decent survivability, and Wild Shape can be combined in many ways.

Finally, Wizard. The INT requirement makes him a bit hard to tune, and the low hit die is a pain. But with the ability to write back spells from friends, and the strong benefits of Schools together with free 1st / 2nd level spells in the end make a full team of wizards very dangerous if correctly organized. My choices would be Bladesinger (melee), Abjurer (tank), Evoker (blaster), Transmuter (support) and either Conjurer or Necromander (party of one).
Only the nearly total lack of healing spells and the INT-based make it go last in single-classing options.
When considering multiclassing, it goes second place because meshes very well with Cleric, Fighter and Rogue.

[rudy]

In terms of survivability, I would go with Paladin. The fact that auras apparently stack (at least by Sage Advice) means that failing saves past level 6 can basically be a thing of the past if you are strategic about placement.

And you don't have to make them all melee oriented. I would suggest two sword-and-boards, heavy armor, tankers. One heavy armor great weapon, with the appropriate feat. At least one dex-based archer paladin. Yes, not ideal, but this one can use their spell slots for casting support type stuff, in place of smiting. Not sure where to put the fifth one; perhaps another archer to give you more ranged power.

At least one of the dex ones can pick up thieves' tools and stealth via background stuff.

Only "downside" I can see is that this is likely to be a pretty dumb party if building "optimally".

[JumboWheat01]

I'm surprised no-one has named wizards yet. "There's a spell for that"

Bladesinger (muscle), Illusionist (face), Diviner (oracle/tactician), evoker (demolition expert), and a fifth man selected from conjurer, necromancer, or transmuter.

I find all-rogue, or all-fighter to be extremely tempting. That said, an all monk party would be total badass: panda, tigress, monkey, crane, snake/cricket!

I would say that fifth Wizard should be an Abjurer, particularly a Shield Dwarf Abjurer. Now you have your tank (who's one ASI away from snagging Heavy Armor,) and can let the Bladesinger switch off to DPR over survival.

And also I would recommend Enchanter for a Face character, at least they have some reasons built into their School to take advantage of Charisma. Plus if all else fails, ENCHANTMENT!

[rudy]

I would say that fifth Wizard should be an Abjurer, particularly a Shield Dwarf Abjurer. Now you have your tank (who's one ASI away from snagging Heavy Armor,) and can let the Bladesinger switch off to DPR over survival.

Honestly, I'd go with Mountain Dwarf for the Medium Armor automatic. Then you can still "dump" strength as well. Build as:

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 17 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha 8

No shield, though. Do you still need proficiency with shields if you have Warcaster?

[JumboWheat01]

Honestly, I'd go with Mountain Dwarf for the Medium Armor automatic. Then you can still "dump" strength as well. Build as:

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 17 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha 8

No shield, though. Do you still need proficiency with shields if you have Warcaster?

Sorry, sorry! Been playing too many Realms-based games. Shield Dwarf = Mountain Dwarf.

Well until you can get Warcaster, you'd want a free hand anyway for material and somatic reasons. And even then, you'd have to drop your shield to use any material spell, so Warcaster would probably be more for Warhammer/Battleaxe and spell foci, which could be sheathed to go two-handed if needed.

[Naanomi]

A paladin aura formation party would be fun... Sword and shield with protection style front center, flanked by two great sword weilders, with two pole arm/whip users behind?

Also, in a wizard party... Consider a transmuter for the resurrection

[DragonSorcererX]

5 Metallic Dragonborn Sorcerers = D&D Power Rangers - Dragon Force.

Member:
Brass - The feminine member of the group.
Copper - The funny guy.
Bronze - The serious and badass looking dark skinned person.
Silver - Paladin-like guy who will probably be both best friend and rival of the leader of the group.
Gold - Leader of the group, this guy is basically the Red Ranger.
Platinum (Chosen of Bahamut/Bahamutspawn/Favored Soul/Avatar of Bahamut) - This guy is basically the outsider ranger that is overpowered, probably came from the future or the past, and he is a plot device.

Edit: I'm not being any "ist" (racist, machist...), I'm only one "ist" and it is egoist (My alignment: True Neutral).

[rudy]

A paladin aura formation party would be fun... Sword and shield with protection style front center, flanked by two great sword weilders, with two pole arm/whip users behind?

Who are then decimated by anything that flies and has a ranged attack/spell. You need at least one of those paladins to be dex-based, even if it is not generally an "optimal" paladin build.

[Naanomi]

Who are then decimated by anything that flies and has a ranged attack/spell. You need at least one of those paladins to be dex-based, even if it is not generally an "optimal" paladin build.
The whip user in the back carries a bow of course, and everyone else has javelins. Make him the Devotion guy since Sacred Weapon appears to work on bows?

Also, every oath spell list except Crown has at least some ranged options, and the oath breaker can hand skeletons bows if needed

[rudy]

Here's your Paladin party of 5. Should cover most situations. Everybody's a Half-Elf!

Thiefadin
Half-Elf: +2 Cha, +1 Con, +1 Dex
10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 16 Cha
Fighting Style: Close Quarters Shooter (UA)
Oath: Devotion
Background: Urchin
Skills: Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Athletics, Insight, Acrobatics, Perception
Tools: Disguise Kit, Thieves' Tools

Rangadin
Half-Elf: +2 Cha, +1 Con, +1 Dex
10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 16 Cha
Fighting Style: Close Quarters Shooter (UA)
Oath: Ancients
Background: Outlander
Skills: Athletics, Survival, Insight, Medicine, Perception, Investigation

Brainsadin
Half-Elf: +2 Cha, +1 Con, +1 Str
16 Str, 8 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 9 Wis, 16 Cha
Fighting Style: Defense OR Dueling
Oath: Devotion
Background: Any with two knowledges
Skills: Arcana, History, Insight, Nature, Perception, Religion

Charmsadin
Half-Elf: +2 Cha, +1 Con, +1 Str
16 Str, 8 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 17 Cha (grab Inspiring Leader at 4th)
Fighting Style: Defense OR Dueling
Oath: Ancients
Background: Faction Agent
Skills: Athletics, Deception, Intimidation, Insight, Perception, Persuasion

Reachadin
Half-Elf: +2 Cha, +1 Con, +1 Str
16 Str, 8 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Cha
Fighting Style: Tunnel Fighter (UA)
Oath: Vengeance (Relentless Avenger syngergizes with Tunnel Fighter well. Later Polearm Master)
Background: Sailor
Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Medicine, Perception, Persuasion

[rudy]

I think if we're allowing all the broken UA content, there's a very important thing to talk about for the wizard party.

Theurgist (https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA%20Non-Divine%20Faithful%20SFG.pdf)

This ridiculous thing will allow you to build up a bunch of cleric spells as wizard spells, and grab a bunch of the domain powers as well (though, sadly not the armor proficiency). Specifically, you'll eventually get the 1st, 6th and 17th level domain powers, in addition to the 2nd level channel power.

I'm not sure what the overall best party of wizards would be, but I'm thinking:

Theurgist (Life)
Theurgist (Trickery)
Bladesinger
Illusionist
Abjurer

Given that realization, I may have to change my vote from the awesome Paladin party above.

[JumboWheat01]

I had forgotten about the Theurgist (I focused on the The Seeker patron.) That really gives a boost to an all-Wizard party.

[Plaguescarred]

I think an all-cleric party can work;

Life domain for the healer type
Arcane domain for the mage type
War domain for the warrior type
Trickery domain for the roguish type
Nature domain for the druid type

[Maxilian]

I would say:

A) Bard, for obvious reasons, you can make a BAND! (Actually its because you have so many options on abilities that you could do anything!)

B) Cleric, they have the most diverse Subclasses of the classes, while one can easily heal (Life), there are others that could easily tank (War), be skill champs (Knowledge) or just doing lot of damage (Tempest)


C) Fighter, cause the extra feats help way more than what you think to make a group of people with the same class feel completely different (also it would be a small batallion)

D) Warlocks, mainly cause if you do that you can be a witch party (Like the actuall Witches in the MM)

[Christian]

There was a thread on this topic a few months back. Inspired by the discussion, I actually started running (as DM and playing all PCs) a test party of 5 wizards through the basic set adventure to see if it was really viable. It turns out it is, but the playstyle needed to survive with that class mix got boring pretty quickly. Your collective low hit points means that just a little randomness not going your way ends up killing somebody, and if you let any randomness in, it won't be long before a little bit of it doesn't go your way. So the typical D&D "wander through the dungeon kicking in doors" method is right out. Instead, every little section of the adventure has three stages:


Collect information about upcoming threats, using spells, scouting familiars, and retreating to a library for further research if something is puzzling.
Create detailed plans to overcome those obstacles, which do not put any of the party members at excessive risk or use too many resources. Include multiple levels of contingency plans for any plan phases that are not at least 99% likely to be successful. Retreat to safety to prepare different spells or collect needed resources if needed.
Implement the plans and overcome the obstacles.
Repeat as needed.


It started to feel more like running a small business than playing an RPG. The five barbarian thing would probably be a lot of fun, or a good change of pace after trying this.

[Maxilian]

There was a thread on this topic a few months back. Inspired by the discussion, I actually started running (as DM and playing all PCs) a test party of 5 wizards through the basic set adventure to see if it was really viable. It turns out it is, but the playstyle needed to survive with that class mix got boring pretty quickly. Your collective low hit points means that just a little randomness not going your way ends up killing somebody, and if you let any randomness in, it won't be long before a little bit of it doesn't go your way. So the typical D&D "wander through the dungeon kicking in doors" method is right out. Instead, every little section of the adventure has three stages:


Collect information about upcoming threats, using spells, scouting familiars, and retreating to a library for further research if something is puzzling.
Create detailed plans to overcome those obstacles, which do not put any of the party members at excessive risk or use too many resources. Include multiple levels of contingency plans for any plan phases that are not at least 99% likely to be successful. Retreat to safety to prepare different spells or collect needed resources if needed.
Implement the plans and overcome the obstacles.
Repeat as needed.


It started to feel more like running a small business than playing an RPG. The five barbarian thing would probably be a lot of fun, or a good change of pace after trying this.

I think that mainly depends on the lvl, at low lvl a group of caster will have a harder time, but at highter lvl, the great array of spells will give them enough options to play around.

[Telesto]

It started to feel more like running a small business than playing an RPG.

That honestly sounds like what everyone should be doing in DnD if the game has a high level of challenge to it. Your experiment may well have turned your players into capable end boss vanquishers. The kind of group which doesn't second guess fighting a CR 30 at level 17+, because they know what the will do and cover their basics until the end result is a game which effectively plays itself.

[Joe the Rat]

Just did a quick scan. We've suggested every class. Lowest are Wizard and Sorcerer (1!).

Apparently the defining quality in a one-for-all party is d8+ hit dice.

[Maxilian]

Just did a quick scan. We've suggested every class. Lowest are Wizard and Sorcerer (1!).

Apparently the defining quality in a one-for-all party is d8+ hit dice.

I don't agree, i think the Wizards are quite good for a full Wizard party, but just that it doesn't work at low lvls, at high lvls, your spells let you work around this

[JumboWheat01]

Just did a quick scan. We've suggested every class. Lowest are Wizard and Sorcerer (1!).

Apparently the defining quality in a one-for-all party is d8+ hit dice.

It does help when you can take a paper cut and not lose a whole hit dice.

[Telesto]

I don't agree, i think the Wizards are quite good for a full Wizard party, but just that it doesn't work at low lvls, at high lvls, your spells let you work around this

I mean... at high levels your spells let you work around reality

[ClintACK]

I love the idea of an all-rogue party. Even with just PH, they can specialize with expertise-

- Tank/Second-Story Man: Mountain Dwarf, Strength, Expertise in Athletics
- Spotter: Wisdom, Expertise in Perception and Insight
- Mechanic: Dex, Expertise in Thieves' Tools
- Mastermind: AT, Int, Expertise in Investigation
- Face: Cha, Expertise in Deception and Persuasion

By 6th level, everyone's got expertise in Stealth, which can be a *huge* deal. At 4th, the Magic Initiate feat gets either Spotter or Face the Healing Word spell.



Wizard seems like it should work, too, with 8 subclasses in the PHB alone -- but the different specializations are *much* less different than they used to be. Maybe you get a Mountain Dwarf Abjurer tank... but after that, how are the wizards really different?



The real truth is that Class is less important in 5e than ever.

You can cover the bases for a full party with just race, stats, and background. Or really just stats and skill choice.

Tank: Mountain Dwarf + armor
Face: good Cha and social skills
Healer: Magic Initiate (Healing Word)
Locksmith: anyone with Dex and Urchin
Scout: anyone with Dex/Wis and Stealth/Perception -- or a familiar.

[Notafish]

In terms of survivability, I would go with Paladin. The fact that auras apparently stack (at least by Sage Advice) means that failing saves past level 6 can basically be a thing of the past if you are strategic about placement.


Also, 5 paladins can form Voltron.

[EvilAnagram]

Everyone as a new UA Ranger.

Everyone has access to:
Healing spells
High DPR
Solid defense
Moderate control
Solid ranged and melee
Advantage on initiative


Bonus points if you're all Beast Masters with different animals.

[WereRabbitz]

Also, 5 paladins can form Voltron.

Can't argue with that logic...

[AbyssStalker]

I'm torn between suggesting 5 wild magic sorcerers or 5 necromancers/illusionists, I'd imagine either group would be fun, even if they might prove ineffective.

[EvilAnagram]

I'm torn between suggesting 5 wild magic sorcerers or 5 necromancers/illusionists, I'd imagine either group would be fun, even if they might prove ineffective.

I wonder how long it would take five Illusionists to take down a Hill Giant with Phantasmal Force...

[Waazraath]

I´m serious surprised with the number of people who say "5 bards", and especially those that say that with valor bard there is a valid melee or tank option. Is there anybody who played single class valor bard as main melee character / tank? I surely haven't, so I'm not speaking with gaming experience on this subject, but when I look a the valor bard, I see a class:

- that's already MAD: need dex, con and cha for melee, and maybe also strength (depending on the build)
- that's feat dependend (which is very bad, since combined with MAD there's a severe lack of ASI's): reselient (con) and war caster are almost mandatory, leaving no room to optimize all relevant ability scores, let alone taking those juicy feats that often make melee not just good but great (shield master, PAM, GWM). Not to mention 'nice to haves' like heavy armor master, lucky, alert or defensive duelist.
- with low HD (8), and without a great AC (either medium armor +2 dex or light +5 dex, depending on the build), with an optional shield, for AC 19, max. At the early levels, it's downright poor
- without class features (ignoring spells, come to this later) to increase it's survivability / defense
- with hardly class features to increase offense; second attack is nice, but a level late, and battle magic at 14 alltogether unimpressive
- without the majority of the good defensive spells: armor of agathys, blur, mirror image, shield, shield of faith, haste, etc. It only has improved invisibility, and that's level earliest.
- without the majority of good offensive spells: no smite spells, hex, hunters mark, divine favor, haste, armor of agathys, spirit guardians, spiritual weapon, etc. etc. Again, only at level 7 there's improved invisibility, to get advantage, or polymorph, and that's it. But how do yo survive up to level 7, without good defensive or offensive options, as main melee?
- and yes, at level 10 (finally) the valor bard can pick 2 spells at level 10. But even when going for 2 very strong options, like banishing smite and spirit guardians, I hardly see them fulfilling the melee role.

So really: I understand the concept of the valor bard backup melee character. But the only melee? In a party full of squishy other bards?

I really don't see it. The 'melee valor bard', at the low levels, lacks AC, HP and damage, compared with normal melee characters (like the paladin, fighter and barbarian), but also compared with other MAD melee casters, like blade warlock, cleric or even sorcerer, they aint that good. These other classes have more relevant spells, sometimes better armor, and class features that increase damage or defense.

Don't get me wrong, the bard is a great class and with skills and 9th level spells it's very versatile, but in melee it is really lacking. We're talking single class here, it would be different with a fighter 1 or pally 2 dip. But if those are not allowed...

Anybody in the house who can convince me I'm missing something?

[Gwendol]

No, you are spot on. The bard-band idea has a lot of potential for fun, but bards are more dependent on ability scores than most. Since they are full casters they can cover a lot with spells, but compared with the other full casters I imagine they will have to be very careful with magical secret selection.

[Citan]

So really: I understand the concept of the valor bard backup melee character. But the only melee? In a party full of squishy other bards?

I really don't see it. The 'melee valor bard', at the low levels, lacks AC, HP and damage, compared with normal melee characters (like the paladin, fighter and barbarian), but also compared with other MAD melee casters, like blade warlock, cleric or even sorcerer, they aint that good. These other classes have more relevant spells, sometimes better armor, and class features that increase damage or defense.

Don't get me wrong, the bard is a great class and with skills and 9th level spells it's very versatile, but in melee it is really lacking. We're talking single class here, it would be different with a fighter 1 or pally 2 dip. But if those are not allowed...

Anybody in the house who can convince me I'm missing something?
You're globally right, but I wouldn't paint as hard a painting as this.

First, the "low AC problem" is the same for Bard, Rogue, Ranger until at least lvl 5 (Rogue) or 7 (Ranger).

Second, a melee focused Bard can either use spells such as Blindness, meaning he has to keep a good CHA, or just self-buffs/utility such as Greater Invisibility meaning he can keep low CHA to help boost DEX and CON.
Also, the MADness problem affects several classes anyways.

Third, you get Combat Inspiration. Since all Bard party, you can trade 2 Valor Bards's Inspiration, or also use the Lore Bard's Cutting Words.
Also note that the UA provided an archetype which, IIRC, allowed a Bard to use Inspiration for himself to get defense and mobility.

Four, with an all Bard Party, everyone has healing words, the Lore Bard can complement each other to ensure that you always get spells such as Faerie Fire, Blindness or Bestow Curse. And they can grab Slow at lvl 6 or cast Dissonant Whispers to provide additional attacks.
Any Bard could also Polymorph itself.

Five, the "low hit die" surprises me, considering that only the Fighter, Paladin and Barbarian get better than d8.

Six, once they get lvl 10 they can choose "only 2 spells", sure, but what spells! Circle of Power, Crusader Mantle (combined with a Lore Bard's Conjure something), Elemental Weapon, Destructive Wave, Fire Shield, Armor of Agathys, Swift Quiver... So many good spells depending on how you play...

Seven, if SCAG content is allowed, a Magic Initiate feat is enough to get a potent cantrip which will end outclassing Extra Attack or, Bard exclusivity, will still allow the bonus action attack if you take it as Magic Secrets (cantrip is a spell, Magic Secrets makes any chosen spell "count as a bard spell", so you can constantly cast Booming Blade and still make a bonus weapon attack).
Or a Valor Bard could just cast Dissonant Whispers because it will end in more attacks on a creature than just his own Extra Attack, and still make a weapon attack.

Eight, in case you envision multiclassing, the Bard's capstone is uninteresting enough to make a 1-2 level dip without regrets, which is generally enough to iron out the most blatant risks of a low-level Valor Bard (Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Paladin).

So, while as a solo player I agree that it's a tad more difficult to survive than a Rogue, for example, and certainly more difficult than brawny classes such as Fighter or Paladin, it's not so different in the low levels, and a careful choice of spells can even out later.
And since it's a party, it can be actually pretty solid imo, as long as everyone discuss with each other to coordinate on spell choice and tactics. ;)

It won't ever beat any class that's fit out for melee fighting, sure (we should worry otherwise), but they can be solid enough to contribute without feeling lacking at lower levels, and gain a pretty substantial increase in efficiency later. ;)

[smcmike]

Five, the "low hit die" surprises me, considering that only the Fighter, Paladin and Barbarian get better than d8.

Ranger, too.

Otherwise I agree. Also, in a party of 5 bards, someone is going to use Inspiring Leader, for a bit of a boost to survivability.

[Citan]

Ranger, too.

Otherwise I agree. Also, in a party of 5 bards, someone is going to use Inspiring Leader, for a bit of a boost to survivability.
My miss, thanks for the correction (don't know why, I always consider Ranger same as Rogue).
And good point on Inspiring Leader, I had forgotten that.
As well as the fact you could make a Grappler Valor Bard which should work pretty well. ;)
(Bonus point for style if you're under "Greater Invisibility" like, you are a "live Hold Person" XD)

[rudy]

Also, 5 paladins can form Voltron.

And, as everyone knows, Voltron does not fail saving throws.

[EvilAnagram]

First, the "low AC problem" is the same for Bard, Rogue, Ranger until at least lvl 5 (Rogue) or 7 (Ranger).
Rangers can start with 18 AC if they take Scale Mail and a shield...

They can easily start with 19 with Medium Armor Master, 20 with Defensive style at second.

[Citan]

Rangers can start with 18 AC if they take Scale Mail and a shield...

They can easily start with 19 with Medium Armor Master, 20 with Defensive style at second.
I'm sorry but you don't get a shield in starting equipement unless I missed something.

MAM is a good point but fairly reductive of build because you have to be a variant human.

Agreed also on Defensive style, although not many Rangers would take it realistically when you have TWF, Archery and Dueling available.

[EvilAnagram]

I'm sorry but you don't get a shield in starting equipement unless I missed something.

MAM is a good point but fairly reductive of build because you have to be a variant human.

Agreed also on Defensive style, although not many Rangers would take it realistically when you have TWF, Archery and Dueling available.

Shields cost 10 GP. Almost any character background can trade their starting gold in for it.

True on other counts, though. I suppose anyone desperate to have a two-handed specialist could take Defensive, but most will not.

[thereaper]

I´m serious surprised with the number of people who say "5 bards", and especially those that say that with valor bard there is a valid melee or tank option. Is there anybody who played single class valor bard as main melee character / tank? I surely haven't, so I'm not speaking with gaming experience on this subject, but when I look a the valor bard, I see a class:

- that's already MAD: need dex, con and cha for melee, and maybe also strength (depending on the build)
- that's feat dependend (which is very bad, since combined with MAD there's a severe lack of ASI's): reselient (con) and war caster are almost mandatory, leaving no room to optimize all relevant ability scores, let alone taking those juicy feats that often make melee not just good but great (shield master, PAM, GWM). Not to mention 'nice to haves' like heavy armor master, lucky, alert or defensive duelist.
- with low HD (8), and without a great AC (either medium armor +2 dex or light +5 dex, depending on the build), with an optional shield, for AC 19, max. At the early levels, it's downright poor
- without class features (ignoring spells, come to this later) to increase it's survivability / defense
- with hardly class features to increase offense; second attack is nice, but a level late, and battle magic at 14 alltogether unimpressive
- without the majority of the good defensive spells: armor of agathys, blur, mirror image, shield, shield of faith, haste, etc. It only has improved invisibility, and that's level earliest.
- without the majority of good offensive spells: no smite spells, hex, hunters mark, divine favor, haste, armor of agathys, spirit guardians, spiritual weapon, etc. etc. Again, only at level 7 there's improved invisibility, to get advantage, or polymorph, and that's it. But how do yo survive up to level 7, without good defensive or offensive options, as main melee?
- and yes, at level 10 (finally) the valor bard can pick 2 spells at level 10. But even when going for 2 very strong options, like banishing smite and spirit guardians, I hardly see them fulfilling the melee role.

So really: I understand the concept of the valor bard backup melee character. But the only melee? In a party full of squishy other bards?

I really don't see it. The 'melee valor bard', at the low levels, lacks AC, HP and damage, compared with normal melee characters (like the paladin, fighter and barbarian), but also compared with other MAD melee casters, like blade warlock, cleric or even sorcerer, they aint that good. These other classes have more relevant spells, sometimes better armor, and class features that increase damage or defense.

Don't get me wrong, the bard is a great class and with skills and 9th level spells it's very versatile, but in melee it is really lacking. We're talking single class here, it would be different with a fighter 1 or pally 2 dip. But if those are not allowed...

Anybody in the house who can convince me I'm missing something?

I actually have an idea prepared for a single party Bard, who can do everything on his own (or cover anything a party is missing). To start with, you dump Str and Int. That leaves you free to go with a Rapier and Shield. That allows you to get to 18 AC, which is not shabby at all. Variant Human lets you get Con Proficiency, and helps you get to 16 Con, so HP and Concentration isn't too big of an issue, even without Warcaster (you still want it; but you don't need it, per se; you just need to keep track of whether your sword is out at any given moment). You use your magical secrets to get Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians. Your 4th level ASI goes to getting the Sentinel feat, so you can do your job, even if your damage isn't especially high. Dex focus means you can do Rogue stuff (background for Thieves' Tool proficiency), and you have Expertise and Jack of all Trades. Then, between class features and the spell list, the Bard has enough to do the Wizard or the Cleric's job to some degree. The only real problem is that the Cha suffers a bit (14 until at least level 8), but if most of your spells target Wisdom, you should be fine (most monsters have 13 or less Wisdom).

And that's a generalist Bard.

Hypothetically, if you wanted to specialize a Bard for melee, it wouldn't be too hard. A full melee Bard could move stats around so that with Resilient(Con) she gets to 16,14,16,8,8,12, which should be fine for a frontline melee that won't be casting anything involving a saving throw. Then at level 4 and 8 she increases her Str and gets GWM. 16 AC, lots of hit points, and sufficient damage. Her Wis saves would be garbage, but that's what other people's Bardic Inspiration dice would be for.

And that's without even considering the possibility of a grapple Bard, which would be both hilarious and surprisingly effective.

[MrStabby]

Whilst I don't think a party of all bards is the best option, I think it's OK.

A bard in armour is pretty much as hard to hit as anyone else in armour (unless they take the style). HP are a bit different though. No reason why a couple of variant human PAM sentinel bards couldn't hold the front line. Add in mirror image/blur and they will control and be able to last quite a while. Add on further that every member of the party is a healer and it goes further.

At level 6 spells like conjure animals become available to lore bards to further increase front-line presence.

I think the problems are all going to be levels 1-3 before feats come online. Without archetype there is no frontline that is tough. Without feats the valor bards cant use PAM/Sentinel to hold the front. Fortunately a party of casters that can all take the sleep spell should be OK unless up against some pretty powerful creatures.




One thing that hasn't been mentioned so much is equipment. If you are finding random magic items and can't buy of exchange any then having a class where not everyone wants heavy armour is likely to be useful. If everyone is looking for the same kind of equipment you can waste some good items.

[MaxWilson]

What would be your suggestion for a group that is made up of all the same class? Everyone must maintain their class until level 12 and then Muticlassing is an option. So it has to be a pretty universal class, but different Colleges, oaths, schools,ect... can all be picked.

PHB, SCAG, or UA

At level 6 what would be the idea for Encounters, Healing, and Trap disarming?

Standard Point Buy in.

They can be all the same race or different doesn't matter only restriction is at Level 5 they will all be the same 6 levels in the same class.

Thanks for any feed back this will be used to research a themed campaign i'm working on for what Classes could best work in a group or which would be a poor decision play wise.

(I think you mean that at level 6 they will all be the same 6 levels in the same class, right? ;-))

I'm tempted to say Wizard (wizards have amazing synergies with each other), but the lack of Revivify/Greater Restoration could be a real downer, so instead I'm going to say Moon Druid. Their collective key weakness will be a serious lack of ranged firepower, but I think it would still be fun. Even by level 2, you're getting to burn 340-450 HP per short rest on beast forms, plus full spellcasting. Plus, Moon Druids aren't stat-dependent, so you won't feel bad about having to do boring point-buy.

Everyone can be a variant human with the Mobile feat. (We'll say you're all from a race of swift plains hunters, like Machakans. You're a group of Machakan shamans.) At level 4, you can pick up feats like Inspiring Leader, Healer, Sentinel (for more attacks moreso than the control ability), Resilient (Con), and Lucky. (I'd probably suggest 2x Lucky, 2x Sentinel, and one Inspiring Leader.)

At level 6: for encounters, you have access to Giant Constrictor Snake form, which has both built-in Sentinel-like control (except even better) and blindsight. One druid can cast a Fog Cloud before turning into his Giant Constrictor Snake form, another can cast Conjure Animals, and then everyone else exploits blindsight + heavy obscurement to tear everything within the cloud to pieces at advantage. Other tricks include Spike Growth for virtual Fireball (i.e. cast it right on an enemy and he has to take 8d4 (20) damage just to get out) and for spike-dragging (since Giant Constrictor Snakes are already good at grappling, you can easily drag an enemy's face over a bunch more spikes for up to 32d4 (80) damage per turn--though unfortunately that will probably "kill" your snake form too and release the grapple), Call Lightning/Moonbeam for AoE, Pass Without Trace + Enhance Ability (Dexterity) to gain surprise, Entangle, and Heat Metal.

Healing: mostly wildshape, but if you get injured in human form, heal via Goodberry. And of course, everyone can always Meld Into Stone (ritual) to short- or long-rest in safety.

Trap disarming: wildshape around it, soak the damage with conjured animal minions and/or wildshape HP, or Enhance Ability (Dexterity) and do your best with Thieves' Tools. Someone should take Thieves' Tool proficiency via background.

[Vogonjeltz]

What would be your suggestion for a group that is made up of all the same class? Everyone must maintain their class until level 12 and then Muticlassing is an option. So it has to be a pretty universal class, but different Colleges, oaths, schools,ect... can all be picked.


PHB, SCAG, or UA

At level 6 what would be the idea for Encounters, Healing, and Trap disarming?

Standard Point Buy in.

They can be all the same race or different doesn't matter only restriction is at Level 5 they will all be the same 6 levels in the same class.

Thanks for any feed back this will be used to research a themed campaign i'm working on for what Classes could best work in a group or which would be a poor decision play wise.

Fighters, Paladins, Clerics, Monks, would probably work better as they all have access to some form of Healing (self or otherwise), durability, and area of effect damage.

Fighters are pretty great because they could each become a different kind of ritual caster with their extra ASI.

[Waazraath]

You're globally right, but I wouldn't paint as hard a painting as this.

First, the "low AC problem" is the same for Bard, Rogue, Ranger until at least lvl 5 (Rogue) or 7 (Ranger).

Second, a melee focused Bard can either use spells such as Blindness, meaning he has to keep a good CHA, or just self-buffs/utility such as Greater Invisibility meaning he can keep low CHA to help boost DEX and CON.
Also, the MADness problem affects several classes anyways.

Third, you get Combat Inspiration. Since all Bard party, you can trade 2 Valor Bards's Inspiration, or also use the Lore Bard's Cutting Words.
Also note that the UA provided an archetype which, IIRC, allowed a Bard to use Inspiration for himself to get defense and mobility.

Four, with an all Bard Party, everyone has healing words, the Lore Bard can complement each other to ensure that you always get spells such as Faerie Fire, Blindness or Bestow Curse. And they can grab Slow at lvl 6 or cast Dissonant Whispers to provide additional attacks.
Any Bard could also Polymorph itself.

Five, the "low hit die" surprises me, considering that only the Fighter, Paladin and Barbarian get better than d8.

Six, once they get lvl 10 they can choose "only 2 spells", sure, but what spells! Circle of Power, Crusader Mantle (combined with a Lore Bard's Conjure something), Elemental Weapon, Destructive Wave, Fire Shield, Armor of Agathys, Swift Quiver... So many good spells depending on how you play...

Seven, if SCAG content is allowed, a Magic Initiate feat is enough to get a potent cantrip which will end outclassing Extra Attack or, Bard exclusivity, will still allow the bonus action attack if you take it as Magic Secrets (cantrip is a spell, Magic Secrets makes any chosen spell "count as a bard spell", so you can constantly cast Booming Blade and still make a bonus weapon attack).
Or a Valor Bard could just cast Dissonant Whispers because it will end in more attacks on a creature than just his own Extra Attack, and still make a weapon attack.

Eight, in case you envision multiclassing, the Bard's capstone is uninteresting enough to make a 1-2 level dip without regrets, which is generally enough to iron out the most blatant risks of a low-level Valor Bard (Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warlock, Paladin).

So, while as a solo player I agree that it's a tad more difficult to survive than a Rogue, for example, and certainly more difficult than brawny classes such as Fighter or Paladin, it's not so different in the low levels, and a careful choice of spells can even out later.
And since it's a party, it can be actually pretty solid imo, as long as everyone discuss with each other to coordinate on spell choice and tactics. ;)

It won't ever beat any class that's fit out for melee fighting, sure (we should worry otherwise), but they can be solid enough to contribute without feeling lacking at lower levels, and gain a pretty substantial increase in efficiency later. ;)

In reply to this post, and several others: true, you can make a bard viable in melee. The Inspiring leader is a good idea that helps a lot, and indeed, in this party somebody will take it if there is some party optimization going on. It's one of the great strengths in 5e that almost every is possible to be viable. Nevertheless, I think for a pure melee, a bard has it more difficult than other classes. To reply for example to some of the points above:

1) A ranger beastmaster could easily use shield and defensive style; rogue will reach max Dex earlier in his carreer.
2) MAD effects bard more then other classes, I think. Druid beastmaster can ignore all but con and wis; ranger can ignore wis; even a fiend pact blade warlock can totally ignore cha and loose nothing, with the right spell selection. The bard looses at least uses of bardic inspiration. Besides, his spell list is less versatile, when ignoring all spells that have a saving throw, and looking for spells that augment melee. But fair enough, the melee build that thereaper posted defenitely is viable, dumping cha does not cripple it or something.
3) good point/idea, trading combat inspiration
4) yeah, having 5 full casters definitely opens up spell options; I see a risk is to run out of fuel (spells) early, when having to spend too much magic on healing words and other combat buffs, but I wouldn't know how that would work out in actual play.
5) as mentions, the ranger as well. The Warlock has 3 decent ways of getting temp hp (fiend, AoA, and an invocation to start each combat with 8 temp HP - huge at low levels!). The rogue has less MAD and more ASI's free, so can easily get a better con score over the levels. Moon druid has the beast form for extra HP. Cleric gets compensated with heavy armor and shield. I think even the dragon sorcerer is better off, with a hp boost that makes him equal of the bard, and permanent +3 AC, and better defensive spells (let alone the UA favored soul...)
6) true. When you reach that level, I don't think you have a problem anymore. As I mentioned in my post, the bard has very good combat buffs from level 7 onward (improved invisibility, polymorph); but it are level 1-6 that I have most worries about, due to the lack of almost any good combat buffs (defensive or offensive).
7) true, SCAG cantrips are nice. In that case, I'd probably go for a lore bard melee class; pick dwarf for medium armor, use a SCAG cantrip for damage, augmented from level 6 onwards with combat buffs.
8) true, but I explicitly talked about single class valor bards as melee, since single class was assumed in this thread.

As for the build provided by thereaper: thanks! It shows the viability of the class. But on the other hand: we can use exactly the same build / stat array on a fiend warlock, and it will have imo both higher damage and higer survivability. Where the bard spell list doesn't add much up to level 7, the warlock has spells and invocations to be very effective in melee (hex, AoA, temp hp invocation, darkness/see in darkness combo, 2nd attack one level earlier, etc.).

So: yes, it can be done. But compared with other classes: difficult.

[JAL_1138]

It's the "must take all the early levels in the same class" restriction that hurts the all-Bard party, because thst locks Valor out of heavy armor without a feat and out of good damage for the early game.

If not for that requirement, I'd say Paladin 2 Valor X (Great Weapon style at Paladin 2, Polearm Master feat, Great Weapon Master or Sentinel feat), Valor with Crossbow Expert (and probably Sharpshooter, and possibly also a Fighter 1 or 2 or even Ranger 3 dip), Warlock 2 Lore X, and single-classed Lore. Double up one of these, probably the Barladin so there's two frontline melee types. This party still takes a really long while to come online, but once the Barladins get Extra Attack (and the Bardlock gets Magical Secrets) at overall level 8, it gets really good. It gets even better once the single-classed Valor picks up Magical Secrets at 10 and becomes a really respectable archer (instead of a slightly-weak but less-squishy caster who uses a weapon for cantrip-grade damage).

As mentioned before by Citan, the VBs all trade Combat Inspirations with each other (and may want to buff the Bardlock as well, another strong source of ranged damage) and the Bardlock and the Lore use Cutting Words. This is a nova-y party to a degree, though, and may have some trouble from burning through slots too quickly. On the other hand, it can probably shred many encounters quickly enough not to worry too much about that.

I'm tempted to say five Clerics (Life, Light, SCAG Arcane, War, and Knowledge, maybe?) or five Druids (more Moons than Lands, I'd think) instead, despite my love of the bard class, since dips are off the table until late midlevels. The all-Bard party works best with early dips.

[2D8HP]

Now I want to try an all
Revised Ranger (http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf) party!

In order, I want to try all:

1) Rangers

2) Barbarians

3) Fighters

4) Rogues!

Someone DM this please!

[dropbear8mybaby]

Bards. It'd be like a massively inspired circle-jerk.

[sineva]

Either Bard or Cleric.

Preferably Bard because Cleric is a bit lacking in utility department. Lore Bards could take the role of both offensive and support casters, while Valor Bards will be the frontliners. Utility is covered by.........well, all of you.

And with 5 Bard, you might as well called your team "Rolling Stones" (or Pink Floyd) :smallbiggrin:

[2D8HP]

Either Bard or Cleric.

Preferably Bard because Cleric is a bit lacking in utility department. Lore Bards could take the role of both offensive and support casters, while Valor Bards will be the frontliners. Utility is covered by.........well, all of you.

And with 5 Bard, you might as well called your team "Rolling Stones" (or Pink Floyd) :smallbiggrin:And from another thread.....


Eh, still could work. Just need to avenge people and hand out free eye shadow. I mean they could look good while whooping ass, besides one needs to have an appropriate amount of eye liner when being sufficiently angry. Just look at all of those hair metal bands.

Like couldn't Twister Sister be a bunch of paladin's avenging the lack of rock and roll?
OK previously I thought an all Barbarian party would be the most fun, but I'm really digging the "Avengers of Rock n' Roll" concept:
"Charged by their Celestial masters with the mission to bring heavy-duty Rock n' Roll to a world in dire need of it and to FIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO PARTY!"
Just so damn metal!
:biggrin:

OK, on second thought maybe "WARLOCKS OF ROCK", "Charged by their Infernal masters" is even more hella metal..
Ooh, a battle royal for THE SOUL OF ROCK 'N ROLL!
Now that's a campaign!


Must... resit... temptation to start new game... :smallfurious:

Oh... but I could homebrew up a rock 'n roll supplement. New subclasses, a music-battle system, maybe some spells... I'll put a pin in it for now.

[Phoenix042]

So I actually already did this in another thread, and I really liked the idea. I strongly disagree with the claim that you need to have all 4 typical roles (cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard) covered at all.
You just need to have a strategy to deal with every common type of encounter: Social, exploration (traps and survival), and combat, with combat usually being the most critical to party survival (typically).

This is more restrictive than the original post, but I also think it's a lot more creative and interesting than "bard" or "cleric."


Special forces squad, all 5 of them are single classed variant human Battle Master fighters at 5th level, using feat, skill selection, maneuver selection, and ability score distribution to differentiate them into their respective roles. All of them will take stealth and perception proficiency, have a high dex, and wear black-camo armor and smoke-blackened weapons for style points.

Combat Medic:
10 18 16 8 14 8 (first ASI to dex)
Feat: Healer (used on fallen allies or before a short rest on all injured allies for 1d6 + 9 healing each).
Equip: Std. Leather, archery, and longbow for a +9 attack (1d8+4 dmg), 16 AC, and 49 HP. Also note the high scores in each ability tied to a common (good) save.
Maneuvers: Evasive Footwork, Parry, and Menacing Attack
Skills: Acrobatics, Insight, Perception, Slight of Hand, Stealth
Background Feature: Ship's Passage

War Leader:
8 18 14 8 10 16 (first ASI to dex)
Feat: Inspiring Leader (every morning and after each short rest, entire party has 8 temporary HP until lost)
Equip: Std. Leather, archery, and longbow again for +9 attack (1d8+4 dmg), 16 AC, and 44 HP.
Maneuvers: Rally, Distracting Attack, and Commander's Strike.
Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, Stealth
Background Feature: Military Rank

Tactician:
10 18 14 8 16 8 (first ASI to dex)
Feat: Magic Initiate (Wizard) for Message and Mage Hand, Find Familiar
Equip: Std. Leather, archery, and longbow (you know the stats by now)
Maneuvers: Pushing Attack, Maneuvering Attack, and Goading Attack
Skills: Acrobatics, Insight, Perception, Survival, Stealth
Background Feature: Wanderer

Sniper:
10 18 14 14 12 8 (first ASI to dex)
Feat: Sharpshooter
Equip: Std. Leather, archery, and longbow for +9 attack (1d8+4) or +4 attack (1d8+14) with sharpshooter
Maneuvers: Precision Attack, Disarming Attack, and Menacing Attack
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcana, Investigation, Perception, Stealth
Background Feature: Researcher

Bruiser:
18 14 16 8 10 8 (first ASI to strength)
Feat: Great Weapon Master
Equip: Breastplate, Great Weapon Fighting, and Greatsword for +7 attack (2d6+4 dmg) or +2 attack (2d6 + 14 damage) with GWM. AC is 16 and HP is 49.
Maneuvers: Feinting Attack, Trip Attack, and Precision Attack
Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Insight, Perception, Stealth
Background Feature: Criminal Contact

Bruiser is the one I'm least sure of, as a PAM or Sentinel, or a shield master tank might fit better.

Thing is, this team makes 10 attacks per round at level 5, and all of those attacks are deadly and easy to focus on a single target. They also are all good at stealth, all have perception, and all have good initiative, so the entire team is likely to go early, avoid surprise, and often surprise foes.

Total party perception is also going to help with traps, and two of them will pick up proficiency in thieves tools, so one of them can Help.
If they suspect a trap, they'll first try to trip it with mage hand, then the familiar, then try to find / disarm it, then as a last resort, send the Bruiser in (with a 10ft pole and a rope tied around his waist, obviously), and hope no trap ever insta-kills him (anything less and he can be brought up again by the Combat Medic).

As far as wilderness survival goes, the tactician has the "Wanderer" feature, so he's pretty much as useful at survival as rangers ever were before the UA revision.

The War leader will handle social encounters, but we're not too worried about excelling at them with this group (no magical or expertise support). And everyone in the group will pick up one or two different languages than the others from the human bonus language and background, if possible.

The group will make liberal use of caltrops, hunter's traps, ball bearings, and string-tripwire triggered bells. They'll also carry around a climber's kit apiece, and one or two med kits each.

[Malifice]

Its impossible to answer the OP's question as he refuses to answer the question with relation to the length of his adventuring days.

So youre all wrong.

[CantigThimble]

Its impossible to answer the OP's question as he refuses to answer the question with relation to the length of his adventuring days.

So you're all wrong.

Wait, what? When did this come up?

[JAL_1138]

Its impossible to answer the OP's question as he refuses to answer the question with relation to the length of his adventuring days.

So youre all wrong.

Perhaps it hasn't been answered because that question hasn't been asked in this thread in the first place. You're thinking of this thread, methinks: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501112-Build-a-Party-Challenge-5-Players-1-RAW-DM

[2D8HP]

Perhaps it hasn't been answered because that question hasn't been asked in this thread in the first place. You're thinking of this thread, methinks: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501112-Build-a-Party-Challenge-5-Players-1-RAW-DMBut that thread is boring!
All the cool kids are at this thread instead.
:cool:

[Malifice]

Perhaps it hasn't been answered because that question hasn't been asked in this thread in the first place. You're thinking of this thread, methinks: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501112-Build-a-Party-Challenge-5-Players-1-RAW-DM

Ah yes, my bad.

[Cybren]

Wizard, all necromancers, commanding a separate battalion of undead.

[Rerem115]

Have everybody play a different Cleric Domain:

War for the Tank/Bruiser
Life for the Tank/Healer
Light/Tempest for the Blaster
Trickery/Knowledge for the Skillmonkey/Party Face
Arcana for the Utility Mage
Nature for the Tank/Utility Mage

They can blast away at enemies from long range with ranged weapons/their spells, heal each other if they get hurt, and if anybody gets close, they have 6 Spirit Guardians eating away at them every round as the Clerics close ranks and defend (Seriously, Spirit Guardians is an insanely strong and underappreciated spell). To top it all off, they shouldn't have a problem with any social challenge, since they get so much help from their spells and their domains.

[malachi]

@Rerem
How can Spirit Guardians be underappreciated if everyone is always bringing it up when they mention clerics? If something is 100% appreciated, in what situations can it be considered underappreciated? Should everyone appreciate it twice?

[tieren]

I agree with the posters suggesting druids.

Its not as fun to theory craft about because they wouldn't be as distinct from one another, but there is nothing they couldn't do.

[EvilAnagram]

Should everyone appreciate it twice?

You've answered your own question. Obviously, we must appreciate every spell a certain number of times according to the Re-Re Scale of Appropriate Appreciation.*

*If you're sarcastic enough, you don't need blue text.

[tieren]

I agree with the posters suggesting druids.

Its not as fun to theory craft about because they wouldn't be as distinct from one another, but there is nothing they couldn't do.

Actually a fun way to do it might be for only one of them to ever keep a humanoid form in public, so to the rest of the world it looks like one guy with some animal companions (a tiger a hawk, a pair of ferrets, you could literally (as a group) be Dar the Beastmaster). If they all dressed alike they could even rotate out who was filling each role, depending on what resources they had left, could really freak out the opponents (with clever use of cover).

I'd also like to see a group of 5 druids interrogate an enemy by standing around him in a circle and thorn whipping him about.

[Ashrym]

I think an argument can be made for most classes as suitable for a single class party. I'm inclined to go with bard too. Lower AC (typically 14-15 instead of 15-17) starting out is the only real concern until later on. Weapon damage isn't poor in comparison until it loses ground as levels increase and d8 hp isn't a big drop from other classes because the difference in hp compared to a d10 is 2 at 1st level and an additional 1 per level after that. Hp gap is minor for quite some time.

Damage can be an issue later on but AC and damage can both be compensated through build focus. A lore plan human versatility bonus feat for medium armor would cover a slightly tankier start as well until valor catches up at 3rd level and a strength based valor bard would be taking heavy armor at 4th level so it's doable as they swap out who's focusing on front line and who's not for the first few levels.

Bards have so much build diversity it's easy to customize them as needed for the group. Other classes listed might have better AC and damage but they don't all cover the same broad assortment of capabilities of which bards are capable. I think fighters, for example, do have potential for healing, damage, and defense but they don't have the broader spell power or level of healing or crowd control options.

Bardic inspiration is the key feature worth making the claim here because it's available early and in large amounts, which makes a big difference in dealing with saving throws issues that can impact single class teams or increase their damage beyond first appearances through accuracy bonus. They might be generally weaker on AC but they're stronger on saves.

Any class has it's pros and cons in a discussion like this (including bards) and I think bards ultimately cover the total capability better regardless of their shortfalls.

[Cl0001]

I would say 3 classes outshine the rest.
Cleric
Fighter
Wizard
I would pick these three because of their high versatility. Clerics would be good because all the different gods to chose from lead to a diverse selection of characters to build a balanced team. Fighters would be good because they're already powerful, and they can learn magic if they go a certain route. Finally wizards because they're wizards and have a spell for every situation. The one problem with wizards would be tanking though. Other classes seem too one way for me and lack enough diversity to be able to pull off the one class party.

[JAL_1138]

Bit of a tangent, but related to Cleric recommendations: the Knowledge domain Cleric is a very respectable skillmonkey. With a Channel Divinity that can grant them proficiency in any tool or skill for 10 minutes a day, Expertise (although it's not called that for some reason) in a couple of knowledge skills, useful domain spells, a domain feature that allows mind-reading, and the Guidance cantrip and the Bless spell, they're essentially fake bards. They'd add the skill versatility a Cleric party would otherwise lack compared to a Bard party. The Bard party is still better at skills, but thanks to this domain they're not too bad off.

Also, five Clerics all running Spirit Guardians could cover a huge area...fortunately for game balance I don't think it would stack if it overlapped, but it might be worth a tweet to Crawford to see.

EDIT:
While it doesn't likely stack, overlapping it could raise the damage output, depending on the ruling. This section

PHB
The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect—such as the highest bonus—from those castings applies while their durations overlap.

seems to be concerned with buffs/debuffs rather than damage (it makes no mention of it, anyway), but if it does apply, then whichever damage roll is highest would be used. This would mean the highest of five rolls in an area where all five Spirit Guardians overlap.