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View Full Version : Optimization What to ask with endless Commune spells?



Jowgen
2016-09-12, 07:01 PM
The short and sweet version: If an andenturer found himself in the position to receive the benefit of a Commune spell an arbitrarily large number of times (over a the course of, lets say, several weeks), what course of questioning do you personally think would be best for him to employ? What sort of things could/should an adventurer investigate given the opportunity to endlessly pick a Deity's brain?

In a recent thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499714-Arch-Lantern-Corps-a-silly-Create-Lantern-Archon-optimization-exercise-of-mine)of mine, I was introduced to the idea of exploiting the Dreamtelling feat (HoH). If my reading is correct, then being able to reliably make a DC 45 Knowledge (the planes) check allows one to interpret a dream oneself (or someone esle) has had to gain information equivalent to a Commune spell. As in, a Yes/No answer to a 1/CL specific questions answers by a philosophically allied deity.


The way this feat works is pretty vague, in that it doesn't specify how/whether you can specify what kind of questions you ask; not to mention no CL-equivalent is given. The lesser effects of this feat are equivalent to Augury and Divination, which respectively tell you "whether a particular action will bring good or bad results for you in the immediate future" and provide a "useful piece of advice in reply to a question concerning a specific goal, event, or activity that is to occur". Considering that all of these spells require you to specify what you're asking for information about, I don't see how the feat can work unless you decide on a question before sleeping.

The Dreamscion feat (SoS) combos with this feat quite well, in that it allows you to enter "a condition of conscious dreaming that focuses the world around you even as it reveals your own inner self", a limited number of times per day. This a) makes Dreamtelling accessible to non-dreaming creature, and b) makes the notion of consciously asking questions in a dream more intuitively sensible.

Now for this thread, I am assuming that one indeed does get to specify a question to receive a deity-informed-level answer (or multiple, if someone can find a reason to tie the 1/CL question ammount to this) to. This means would mean that anyone with this feat could essentially receive an endless stream of Commune spells, just so long as they have the time to dream regularly and/or use Dreamscion and/or ask other people to properly explain their dreams. So: [back to the short/sweet version].

BowStreetRunner
2016-09-12, 07:29 PM
Is the first number in tomorrow's Lotto drawing a One? Is the first number in tomorrow's Lotto drawing a Two? (etc., etc.)

Seriously, if I had an adventurer with access to such a resource I would find something within the deity's knowledge and play '20 questions' with it until I had the entire thing figured out. Location of a valuable treasure? Amount of treasure, safest route to access, number and location of traps and how to disarm, number and type of defenders, etc., etc. until I basically had what would equate to the entire printed module and then plan how to get the treasure most effectively.

Jowgen
2016-09-12, 07:35 PM
Is the first number in tomorrow's Lotto drawing a One? Is the first number in tomorrow's Lotto drawing a Two? (etc., etc.)

Seriously, if I had an adventurer with access to such a resource I would find something within the deity's knowledge and play '20 questions' with it until I had the entire thing figured out. Location of a valuable treasure? Amount of treasure, safest route to access, number and location of traps and how to disarm, number and type of defenders, etc., etc. until I basically had what would equate to the entire printed module and then plan how to get the treasure most effectively.

So to put it in general terms, choose a valuable/powerful thing that a deity would know about; then ask all the yes/no questions needed to make a high-probably-of-success plan to acquire those items.

Simple question in that regard, is the location of artifacts within the purview of deities?

Jack_Simth
2016-09-12, 07:40 PM
So to put it in general terms, choose a valuable/powerful thing that a deity would know about; then ask all the yes/no questions needed to make a high-probably-of-success plan to acquire those items.

Simple question in that regard, is the location of artifacts within the purview of deities?
Their own? Absolutely (e.g., asking Vecna about the Eye or Hand of Vecna). Other deities' artifacts? Reply hazy, ask DM.

Deophaun
2016-09-12, 07:53 PM
Cleric: Are we there yet?
Deity: No.
Cleric: Are we there yet?
Deity: No.
Cleric: Are we there yet?
Deity: No.
Cleric: Are we there yet?
Deity: No.
Cleric: Are we there yet?
Deity: Your caster level was how high, again?

Âmesang
2016-09-12, 08:21 PM
Deophaun ninja'd me. :smallfrown:



"So is Wenta currently single?" :smallbiggrin:

daremetoidareyo
2016-09-12, 08:26 PM
prophet of the divine feat! Convince everyone that you're a messiah.

Jowgen
2016-09-13, 09:27 PM
Their own? Absolutely (e.g., asking Vecna about the Eye or Hand of Vecna). Other deities' artifacts? Reply hazy, ask DM.

Thinking about it "Do you know the current location of any artifacts on the plane I'm currently on?" Seems like a pretty decent question in itself. :smallbiggrin:

On a side-note regarding the tl;dr version, I've had a look, and it appears the only deity who's portfolio includes Dreams in the standard setting is Sehanine Moonbow. If an actual deity answers the questions from Dreamtelling, she would seem to be the best bet (for good aligned dreamers that is).


prophet of the divine feat! Convince everyone that you're a messiah.
Okay, that one gets points for hillarity :smallbiggrin:

Jack_Simth
2016-09-13, 09:34 PM
Thinking about it "Do you know the current location of any artifacts on the plane I'm currently on?" Seems like a pretty decent question in itself. :smallbiggrin:Also of note: "The entities contacted structure their answers to further their own purposes." - the answers may not mean quite what you think...

Jowgen
2016-09-14, 12:53 AM
Also of note: "The entities contacted structure their answers to further their own purposes." - the answers may not mean quite what you think...

True, especially for the Tl;DR version. If Sehanine is indeed the assumed origin of the Dreamtelling communes, she'll likely shape the dreams so that any Knowledge (planes) interpretation is likely to be skewed towards her outlook on things.

In that case, the wording of the question will have to be done in a way that communicates an intention that she would find favoreable. For example, asking for the location of a powerful artifact might should be done alongside an insinuation that one wishes to Destroy (for evil) or Use for the Common Good (for good).

TheFamilarRaven
2016-09-14, 02:28 PM
Well, first you should always start off by asking if whatever entity you're contacting's day was good. No need to be rude after all.

Inevitability
2016-09-14, 03:02 PM
Well, first you should always start off by asking if whatever entity you're contacting's day was good. No need to be rude after all.

Do the outer planes even have days? I know Bytopia does, and Arcadia probably has a day/night cycle too, but the other planes I'm less sure about.

Quertus
2016-09-14, 07:42 PM
A few guesses, off the top of my head:

Is the most important question for me to be asking right now one of the ones written in my journal? Etc etc

Does the first letter of the most important thing for me ask about exist in the first half of the alphabet? Etc etc

Are there any world-ending threats coming to fruition within a week?

Knowing what you know, if you were me, would you be heading towards one of the locations on the top half of this map? Etc etc

Kelb_Panthera
2016-09-14, 09:13 PM
"If I employ this ability, will you send an envoy to smite me?"

Don't know about you but I get irritated pretty quick when somebody spams the crap out of my phone with texts or emails. There are some people I'd have smote if I had the ability.