Can adult Western animation move beyond comedy?

[CmdrShep2183]

I have heard that animation is cheaper than CGI. Why can't they use this medium to create kickass space adventures and epic fantasy? Are adults conditioned to believe animation should be silly?

http://cbr.imgix.net/preview/Frontlines-01-LETT-03-473a8.jpg?auto=format&lossless=1&q=40&w=700&h=1062&fit=crop
http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/TOHBTK001_Preview05-600x923.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KslOJuGRUrc/UgUdip4IMmI/AAAAAAAABHA/TCgUrq5bBOI/s1600/Shadowmarch.jpg

Millennials don't watch TV in the way that prior generations did? Would they be more open to this?

[WeedHappy]

It had dramatic parts & comedy parts, but it was full length & animated. From 1981 Heavy Metal

[Fri]

From googling the topic title, there's big possibility that this is one of the advanced spambot that xkcd welcomed for us back then.

https://xkcd.com/810/

(I googled this guy's topic title and found exact same title in different places)

Sorry if you're not though!

[Razade]

From googling the topic title, there's big possibility that this is one of the advanced spambot that xkcd welcomed for us back then.

https://xkcd.com/810/

(I googled this guy's topic title and found exact same title in different places)

Sorry if you're not though!

It may well be though it's a rather old one, dormant for a year with a pretty spot on name for a forum like this. Smart spambot indeed. Regardless, it's a fine enough topic as it is.

I'd point to things like Fritz the Cat (google at own risk), Heavy Metal has already been mentioned. Sausage Party was a roaring success and it was animated (and full on CGI). I would offer Bojack Horseman as decidedly adult and while it does have elements of humor it's not a comedy in the traditional sense. I'd recommend Bojack Horseman regardless of thread. Go watch Bojack Horseman. Why are you still reading this post, you should be watching Bojack Horseman.

[Ark Evensong]

Does The Red Turtle count? Saw this a couple of weeks ago with my sister, and thought it was pretty good. ... It kind of skirts *all* the classification lines, though. (Except animation, heh.)

It's neither sci-fi or epic fantasy, nor specifically for adults. (Not even close to any 'naughty' bits, even where it would've been appropriate.) Might be a little slow for kids, though. It also has some humourous elements. Oh, and Studio Ghibli was involved, skirting that final "western animation" line. (Dutch-British director, and with a bunch of production based in France.)

[Cheesegear]

I would offer Bojack Horseman as decidedly adult and while it does have elements of humor it's not a comedy in the traditional sense. I'd recommend Bojack Horseman regardless of thread. Go watch Bojack Horseman. Why are you still reading this post, you should be watching Bojack Horseman.

Bojack Horseman is brutally depressing and is oftentimes not funny at all, many episodes leave you feeling like you've just been gut-punched.

[Maryring]

Sausage Party is a grossout humour show though. It's more comparable to Family Guy and South Park than anything else.

To address the actual question though. Adult Western Animation will in time move beyond being viewed as something silly or childish. It'll take a well-animated and well-told story. Like what Maus and The Watchmen did for comic books. Thankfully, Japanese animation has already shown it to be possible, so I'm sure we'll see more animation for adults in the future.

[JoshL]

Yeah, Ralph Bakshi has more or less dedicated his career to this since the 70s (with some comedy in there too, and humor in his non-comedies). Do we count Link later's adaptation od A Scanner Darkly? We should, it is one of the best PKD adaptations out there.

Bot the one I really wanted to mention is It's Such a Beautiful Day by Don Hertzfeldt. Not sci-fi or epic in any way, primitive animation at best, but a stunning and beautiful film about mental decline. Amazing piece of adult animation moving into Serious Art Film(tm) territory. Go watch it now. I'll wait.

Then go watch Rejected and Billy's Balloon, both of which are twisted and funny.

[Murk]

I find it interesting that there seems to be a gap between animation and comics. I know plenty of western comics (mainly European, but that might be me) that are filled with blood, sex, gore, epic plots, etc. - certainly not comedic, and probably not suited for children.
But somehow, this type has never made it to the white screen. Why is that?

[Flickerdart]

From googling the topic title, there's big possibility that this is one of the advanced spambot that xkcd welcomed for us back then.

https://xkcd.com/810/

(I googled this guy's topic title and found exact same title in different places)

Sorry if you're not though!

This bot is not new. There was one before with a similar name posting ad-threads for The Expanse. I've been reporting him every time, but the mods don't care.

[Metahuman1]

Sausage Party does and doesn't count, as it advertised as a comedy/horror. Bojack Horseman might, as it's a sort of slice of life/drama/genera deconstruction/character piece/tragedy.


I'm hopeful the new Samurai Jack will be good, as it would then add some president for an action series.






But the shows need to be both good, AND commercially successful. I know Sausage Party managed to be, and I think Bojack Horseman managed to be. If this trend keeps up, it'll happen in due time.

[eggynack]

Bot the one I really wanted to mention is It's Such a Beautiful Day by Don Hertzfeldt. Not sci-fi or epic in any way, primitive animation at best, but a stunning and beautiful film about mental decline. Amazing piece of adult animation moving into Serious Art Film(tm) territory. Go watch it now. I'll wait.
Yeah, It's Such a Beautiful Day is just straight up one of the best movies ever, by my reckoning. Definitely somewhere around my top five.


Then go watch Rejected and Billy's Balloon, both of which are twisted and funny.
I'd definitely watch World of Tomorrow over Billy's Balloon. That one is amazing. Probably a toss up between that and rejected. Didn't love Meaning of Life though.

Anyway, beyond that, how do you define "adult". I'm, at least nominally, an adult. I like Pixar films. Does that make those adult? If not, then why not? Does a movie need graphic situations to be considered adult? How about Over the Garden Wall? Or Avatar: the Last Airbender/Legend of Korra? When does one cross the line into "adult"? Hell, let's go old school. Am I really supposed to consider Pinocchio or frigging Fantasia not adult? Again, why? Are we going purely off content advisory warnings here? Is it about themes and motifs? Is the definition, like that classic one for porn, that you know it when you see it? Because I love all those things I just said, and a good portion of those things aren't comedy (with a couple Pixar films maybe trending towards comedy sometimes). So, in answer to your question, yes, because they already have.

Edit:
This bot is not new. There was one before with a similar name posting ad-threads for The Expanse. I've been reporting him every time, but the mods don't care.
It's hard, because I like this thread topic, and so I can reasonably say that my experience on this forum, and thus by extension my life in general, has been slightly improved by the presence of this user that is likely a bot. Are we supposed to ban or delete the posts of a user that is having a positive forum impact? Considering it from the opposite end, the actual input that probably goes into the bot (which, from my limited experience of this weird form of bot, is pulling arbitrary forum stuff internet), we are, in a sense, getting content from people that would otherwise not be supplying content to the forum. Which has a weird kinda plagiarize-ish edge, but at that point we're in a whole different kind of rule breaking, one which I'm not even sure is actually rule breaking. So, in conclusion, the bots are our friends. All hail the bots.

[Aedilred]

A Scanner Darkly? Not exactly conventional animation, but animation nonetheless. Adult and definitely not comedy.

[The Glyphstone]

Edit:
It's hard, because I like this thread topic, and so I can reasonably say that my experience on this forum, and thus by extension my life in general, has been slightly improved by the presence of this user that is likely a bot. Are we supposed to ban or delete the posts of a user that is having a positive forum impact? Considering it from the opposite end, the actual input that probably goes into the bot (which, from my limited experience of this weird form of bot, is pulling arbitrary forum stuff internet), we are, in a sense, getting content from people that would otherwise not be supplying content to the forum. Which has a weird kinda plagiarize-ish edge, but at that point we're in a whole different kind of rule breaking, one which I'm not even sure is actually rule breaking. So, in conclusion, the bots are our friends. All hail the bots.

Being a bot isn't actually against the forum rules. Spam and commercial advertising are, though, and since 99% of bots do that, it's usually a non-issue. If the OP is a bot, which I'm not certain of myself - their sparse posting record is just random enough to be potentially human - they aren't breaking any rules with the posts they make, so XKCD is true to form as linked previously.

[Kitten Champion]

A Scanner Darkly? Not exactly conventional animation, but animation nonetheless. Adult and definitely not comedy.

There's Spawn and Aeon Flux as far as television goes, and DC just released The Killing Joke as an R-rated work. Presuming we're defining adult Western animation which couldn't comfortably be shown on Saturday morning children's television (excluding comedic works, I should say*).

There also less ambitious things like the animations Bioware made to accompany Mass Effect and Dragon Age which were one-offs.

I'd like to see more like It's Such a Beautiful Day, with streaming services widely available that kind of thing could really find a marketable place where none really existed before.

[JoshL]

I'd definitely watch World of Tomorrow over Billy's Balloon. That one is amazing. Probably a toss up between that and rejected. Didn't love Meaning of Life though.

Completely agree (hell, it was up for the Oscar!) mostly just suggested Billy's Balloon because it's not quite as emotionally heavy and nostalgia going back to the Spike and Mike days. It's interesting to see how far he's gone, and going from pretty stupid jokes to straight up art. And it's exciting to see him get some recognition for it these days!

[No brains]

Being a bot isn't actually against the forum rules. Spam and commercial advertising are, though, and since 99% of bots do that, it's usually a non-issue. If the OP is a bot, which I'm not certain of myself - their sparse posting record is just random enough to be potentially human - they aren't breaking any rules with the posts they make, so XKCD is true to form as linked previously.

A step forward for robot equality. Darn. No emote for a single brave tear.

Tho TBH, what is 'adult' animation is up to the viewer. The best films will have layers, and while the presence of things that appeal to kids may be a distraction to some, that may be a fault of the viewer more than the piece. Children do exist and want some topics explained to them, after all.

Getting back to the meta-topic- which part of the Turing test is it where a robot can get banned from a forum for making ****posts that aren't distinguishable from human trolling? HEY! We got an emote for this one! :smallbiggrin:

[zimmerwald1915]

From googling the topic title, there's big possibility that this is one of the advanced spambot that xkcd welcomed for us back then.
That'd explain the weird assumption that comedy is more low-art than "kickass space adventures and epic fantasy," and must be transcended.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

There's Spawn and Aeon Flux as far as television goes, and DC just released The Killing Joke as an R-rated work. Presuming we're defining adult Western animation as which couldn't comfortably be shown on Saturday morning children's television (excluding comedic works, I should say*).

There also less ambitious things like the animations Bioware made to accompany Mass Effect and Dragon Age which were one-offs.

I'd like to see more like It's Such a Beautiful Day, with streaming services widely available that kind of thing could really find a marketable place where none really existed before.
I think this is a good example of how big shifts don't happen overnight. It's very possible that we are in the middle of a changing perception of animation in the US, but it's moving so slowly that we don't always notice it.

[Legato Endless]

That'd explain the weird assumption that comedy is more low-art than "kickass space adventures and epic fantasy," and must be transcended.

Then again, I've met enough Geek Chic who wouldn't blink at that judgment.

[zimmerwald1915]

Then again, I've met enough Geek Chic who wouldn't blink at that judgment.
Derrida had it right: the world is going very badly, has been going very badly for a long time, and will continue going very into the imaginable future.

[Darth Ultron]

I have heard that animation is cheaper than CGI. Why can't they use this medium to create kickass space adventures and epic fantasy? Are adults conditioned to believe animation should be silly?


Animation is, and will always be silly. You simply can't do adult things like drama or complex plots with animation. As soon as something becomes animated, it is reduced to childish levels. animation is ''great'' as it allows the ''freedom'' to do anything, however that freedom is always taken way, way, way, way too far.

Just like the way CGI animation is also taken too far. Look at some recent movies like Batman vs Superman, it's just a waste of CGI spam.

Few people, even more so the normal people, will pay to watch a cartoon, except the silly funny ones..and even then the more target audience is ''people with kids who, like what their kids like''.

[Aedilred]

Animation is, and will always be silly. You simply can't do adult things like drama or complex plots with animation. As soon as something becomes animated, it is reduced to childish levels. animation is ''great'' as it allows the ''freedom'' to do anything, however that freedom is always taken way, way, way, way too far.

Just like the way CGI animation is also taken too far. Look at some recent movies like Batman vs Superman, it's just a waste of CGI spam.

Few people, even more so the normal people, will pay to watch a cartoon, except the silly funny ones..and even then the more target audience is ''people with kids who, like what their kids like''.

The counterexamples already given in the thread notwithstanding, I think this misses the point of the OP, which is to ask whether it's possible to move beyond this. Even if we accept the premise that animation has always been this way, doesn't mean that animation will always be this way or that it can't be anything more. There is no reason, none whatsoever, that you can't do drama or complex plots with animation, or that animating something necessarily makes it childish. Your post is just taking a blanket view of what's already out there and extrapolating that that's all that's possible.

That the OP asks specifically about western animation is another clue, given that - from what I understand; I'm not an anime fan - there is already a substantial quantity of adult animated material out there in other markets.

[Razade]

Animation is, and will always be silly. You simply can't do adult things like drama or complex plots with animation. As soon as something becomes animated, it is reduced to childish levels. animation is ''great'' as it allows the ''freedom'' to do anything, however that freedom is always taken way, way, way, way too far.

Just like the way CGI animation is also taken too far. Look at some recent movies like Batman vs Superman, it's just a waste of CGI spam.

Few people, even more so the normal people, will pay to watch a cartoon, except the silly funny ones..and even then the more target audience is ''people with kids who, like what their kids like''.

Other than what's already been posted and the above post, you're ignoring all of Miyazaki's films or any of Ghibli's work. Is Spirited Away childish? Is The Cat Returns childish? Grave of the Fireflies? I'd say no. Not even just Ghibli. Is Perfect Blue childish? How about Kite (That one's not safe for work). Paprika? Tokyo Godfathers? Ninja Scroll (Another one not safe for work), how about Sword of the Stranger? Ghost in the Shell? Up on Poppy Hill? The wildly influential Akira? Your argument is so terribly reductive and demonstrably wrong. Not the least because you have absolutely no evidence to back up what you're asserting, but because the evidence contrary to your wild and unsupported claims is so staggeringly large.

[The Second]

It's a sad fact that, here in the west, conventional animation is considered unworthy of handling serious subjects due to the majority of viewers equating animated works as either comedy or kids fare.

Ralph Bakshi, Jim Henson, Max Fleischer, and others tried to change people's opinions, but all saw thSir more serious efforts scorned by executives and pushed in niches by popular opinion.

Add in the fact that anyone can hire no-name actors from off the street to star in their movie and still maintain a shoestring budget, while finding domestic animators is a challenge even with a AAA budget.

Also, the prevailing animation style in the west is 'cartoony', a style that lends itself well to comedy.

Edit: also, let's dispell the idea that conventional animation is less expensive than CGI. Certainly, if you use fewer frames of animation you can make low quality, inexpensive animation. High qualityvanimayion requires a team of expertly trained animators with both many years of schooling and extensive training in the animation style they will be using for the feature. Good animators are not, therefore, a dime a dozen.

[Manga Shoggoth]

It's a sad fact that, here in the west, conventional animation is considered unworthy of handling serious subjects due to the majority of viewers equating animated works as either comedy or kids fare.

Many years ago the B Movies to the early Star Wars films (at least in my local cinema) were a computer animated anti-nuclear weapons film and a straight animated rather sweet anti-war film called "Cause Perdu". I grant that these were not exactly mainstream films, but there was serious animation out there.

It's been a long time since I saw B Movies in cinemas... Sometimes, I miss them - you used to get some interesting stuff (amongst the drek...)

[Dragonexx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba-oxF-cbAU

This video is pretty helpful on the subject.

[Dragonexx]

Sorry about the double post, but another of his videos explains why cartoons are viewed as being "for children".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJhpSgadZE

[Darth Ultron]

Other than what's already been posted and the above post, you're ignoring all of Miyazaki's films or any of Ghibli's work. Is Spirited Away childish? Is The Cat Returns childish? Grave of the Fireflies? I'd say no. Not even just Ghibli. Is Perfect Blue childish? How about Kite (That one's not safe for work). Paprika? Tokyo Godfathers? Ninja Scroll (Another one not safe for work), how about Sword of the Stranger? Ghost in the Shell? Up on Poppy Hill? The wildly influential Akira? Your argument is so terribly reductive and demonstrably wrong. Not the least because you have absolutely no evidence to back up what you're asserting, but because the evidence contrary to your wild and unsupported claims is so staggeringly large.

Um, are not all your examples not Western Animation?

You have no proof either. So, oh, well, right? Even if I did have ''proof'', you'd still say it is the ''wrong kind of proof'' or just dismiss it, right? So what would even be the point. The ''proof'' could hit you on the head and you'd still say ''nope, no proof''.

And it's a sad circle. Have you ever seen a western animated movie that was not silly and went ''way to far'' just as it was a cartoon? The animators or other creators just can't seem to help themselves. Even when just animating something like ''character walks down the street'' they can't help themselves but go all crazy, just as it is a cartoon. And the other side of the circle are the viewers, who don't want to waste money on something animated.

[Lethologica]

Some as-yet-unmentioned examples:

--Persepolis - it might be presumptuous to claim this as 'western', but this adaptation of Marjane Satrapi's autobiographical graphic novel about growing up in Iran and Europe is listed as French-Iranian-American and captures heavy political drama along with a coming-of-age story.
--The Secret of Kells, Song of the Sea - animated European fairy tales, kid-friendly but with only a dash of humor as appropriate.
--Waking Life - a surreal American drama about the existential crisis of a perpetual dreamer. I can hardly imagine anything more unlike comedy.

There's always Watership Down, of course.


Um, are not all your examples not Western Animation?
You didn't confine your claim to western animation ("Animation is, and will always be silly"), so non-western animation is legitimate evidence. However, several examples of western animation have also been posted in the thread. So, really, you just don't have a leg to stand on.

This was just getting to be an interesting rec thread, DU. I like this thread. Can we please not do this ridiculous song and dance?

[Razade]

Um, are not all your examples not Western Animation?

You point to where you said "Western Animation" up here won't you please?


Animation is, and will always be silly. You simply can't do adult things like drama or complex plots with animation. As soon as something becomes animated, it is reduced to childish levels. animation is ''great'' as it allows the ''freedom'' to do anything, however that freedom is always taken way, way, way, way too far.

Just like the way CGI animation is also taken too far. Look at some recent movies like Batman vs Superman, it's just a waste of CGI spam.

Few people, even more so the normal people, will pay to watch a cartoon, except the silly funny ones..and even then the more target audience is ''people with kids who, like what their kids like''.

Oh, you didn't. Right. On to the rest, where you don't try to switch your argument to try and validate your baseless assertion!


You have no proof either. So, oh, well, right?

Except...I do. I already made a post with several examples up above but I'll put them here again. Fritz the Cat? Not childish (Not safe for work either), BoJack Hosemen? Not childish, considered a rising star in what you'd call Dramedy I suppose. Others mentioned Heavy Metal, I also mentioned it. Heavy Metal is a classic of contemporary adult animation. Lethlogica already mentioned The Secret of Kells and the Song of the Sea. Both god damned fantastic films you should watch that aren't childish even though their aimed at a younger audience. How about one I don't think anyone's mentioned. The Secrets of NIHM. Aimed at children, in no way childish or cartoony. Do the animated Lord of the Rings not count in your narrow interpretation?

Princess and the Cobbler? That one isn't cartoony or childish, at least not the REAL cut before it was hacked to pieces to combat Alaadin. Kubo and the Two Strings, Coraline...any of the LAIKA films. Aimed at children, surprisingly adult in theme and execution. They're animation. Animal Farm had an animated adaption. Is that for kids? How about When the Wind Blows, Google that one and tell me if it's cartoony or silly. A Scanner Darkly is...sorta animated. Certainly not anything you claim animated films are. People have forgotten Watership Down, but I sure didn't. Plague Dogs too. Who Framed Rodger Rabbit is a living breathing deconstruction against your entire argument. The Beatles vanity project The Yellow Submarine? The Nightmare Before Christmas? The Iron Giant? And none of this. NONE of these examples even begin to touch well known classics that have come out of Pixar.


And it's a sad circle. Have you ever seen a western animated movie that was not silly and went ''way to far'' just as it was a cartoon? The animators or other creators just can't seem to help themselves. Even when just animating something like ''character walks down the street'' they can't help themselves but go all crazy, just as it is a cartoon. And the other side of the circle are the viewers, who don't want to waste money on something animated.

No firstly. Secondly I'll direct your attention above. I'll direct your attention to Doug Walker's take on a different matter but he touches on the topic. Give it a listen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXzmUfoKCqQ). Just because you haven't explored the genre, just because you assumed it was so doesn't make it so. I've given you a list of tons of Western (and non-Western) animated movies geared towards adults and away from less silly and "cartoony" elements. Go watch them. I'll even put them in a spoiler tag so you just have the names.


Fritz the Cat
Heavy Metal
BoJack Horseman
Secret of Kells
Song of the Sea
Secrets of NIMH
Princess and the Cobbler (Restored Addition)
Kubo of the Two Stings
Coraline
Paranorman
Watership Down
Plague Dogs
Animal Farm (The Animated Version)
Charlotte's Web (The Animated Version)
A Scanner Darkly
When the Wind Blows
Who Framed Rodger Rabbit
The Yellow Submarine
The Point (If you can find it)
The Iron Giant
The Nightmare before Christmas
Beyond the Garden Wall

You want to tell me again I don't have proof? Oh, and one last thing.


Even if I did have ''proof'', you'd still say it is the ''wrong kind of proof'' or just dismiss it, right? So what would even be the point. The ''proof'' could hit you on the head and you'd still say ''nope, no proof''

You're wrong. You're attempt at strawmanning me only to go "haha, we're both unreasonable with our assumptions so who cares!" won't work. If you could provide me proof you were correct, I'd change my stance in a heart beat. You can't so I won't. I've provided you at least three days worth of things to watch. Go watch them.

[Cheesegear]

Also, the Disney movie that Disney really wants to forget ever happened; The Black Cauldron. Eilonwy is totally a Disney Princess, but she's not. Because...Reasons.

[The Glyphstone]

If you don't make the cash, you don't get the crown.

[Razade]

Also, the Disney movie that Disney really wants to forget ever happened; The Black Cauldron. Eilonwy is totally a Disney Princess, but she's not. Because...Reasons.

Probably because it's a terrible movie and is one of the examples that has led to Darth Ulton's absurd argument that non-cartoony animated films can't exist.


If you don't make the cash, you don't get the crown.

How like life.

[Cheesegear]

If you don't make the cash, you don't get the crown.

I've always been under the impression that it's Nightmare Fuel for kids.

[EvilJames]

It's not American animation but still "western" because I believe it's British. But "When the Wind Blows". It's not funny or silly, it's not for kids, in fact it depressing as hell. So that is a decent reponse to the OP among the other's mentioned. It's also a response to Darth Ultron's posts as there is nothing silly about that cartoon. I won't spoil it, but you can watch it on Youtube, just don't do so if you are already feeling down. It's pretty bleak.

Darth Ultron seems to be referring to the animation age ghetto which he seems to accept as just the way things are and will always be. It's the idea that cartoons are for and always have been for kids. He also talks about them having to be silly and going to far (to be fair I don't know what he means by that.)

Thing is even kids shows don't have to be silly. Batman the Animated series was for kids but it was very much an action drama. In fact BtAS is a good response to the OP as well. Pretty much all of the DCAU works for this. Lots of action and drama with bits of humor thrown in (because even live action dramas have humor now and again).

See also Gargoyles, Exo Squad and that CG animated Starship Troopers show. Occasional laughs, but heavy on drama.

[Manga Shoggoth]

You point to where you said "Western Animation" up here won't you please?

In DU's defense: the thread title is "Can adult Western animation move beyond comedy?"

Not in DU's defense: I agree with pretty much everything else in your post. If we were to plunder Europe we would find lots more examples. Shall we add the two animated Discworld adaptations (Soul Music and Wyrd Sisters)? I've seen parts (if not all) of Gormenghast as animations.

Even a quick search came up with The 40 Best European Animated Feature Films of All Time (http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2015/the-40-best-european-animated-feature-films-of-all-time/) (which includes a couple of your examples).

[Chromascope3D]

You'd think that DU would be more supportive of western animation considering how much "normal" people just kinda ignore it, but idk. :P

Personally, I love animated comedies, but being someone who will give anything animated at least one chance, I can totally understand the desire for more meaty/mature fare. However, considering the resounding financial success of both an R-Rated superhero movie (which hasn't happened since the 90's), and an R-Rated animated flick (which hasn't really happened ever) in the same year, it could be that we're on the precipice of a gradual cultural shift without even knowing it.

[tomandtish]

Watership Down is certainly one of the best examples. My parents let me watch it as a young kid and it made me cry for days.


It may well be though it's a rather old one, dormant for a year with a pretty spot on name for a forum like this. Smart spambot indeed. Regardless, it's a fine enough topic as it is.

I'd point to things like Fritz the Cat (google at own risk), ....

Funny story here. We got our first VCR when I was 14. After setting it up we went to the video store to pick up some movies. Dad, my brother, and I had all picked out ours. Mom was wandering through a (small) animated section and we hear..

"Oh. Fritz the Cat. I used to love that when I was a child",

So she rents it.

We get home and start watching movies. The time comes for Fritz and mom puts it in. About 7-8 minutes in we get...

"This isn't how I remember this...".

Turns out she had been thinking of Felix the Cat. But we finished watching Fritz. So the first X-rated movie I ever saw was with my parents when I was 14.

[CmdrShep2183]

Would animation give us incredible stories in sci fi and fantasy worlds? Can animation give us incredible environments.

I loved Clone Wars but would wish for something more adult.

Hopefully something better than this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0sFmKnpJpM