PDA

View Full Version : Claiming a Tower



Trask
2016-09-13, 10:24 PM
I made a thread on the system specific forum about the mechanics of this, but now I want to ask you guys about the system agnostic ideas for this. My players have recently cleared out a tower filled with goblins and decided that they want to make it theirs. The tower isn't especially damaged except for a busted down door and ivy growing everywhere, some loose stones and cracks. But its not falling apart or anything. Its on the edge of the farmland surrounding the main "hub" city. Running a very sandboxy freeform game I am totally for this idea, but I think that I dont want to make it as easy as simply saying "mine" for the players to get their tower. Once word spread the goblins were wiped out the city would eventually send officials to check it out.

I'm not going for 100% realism here and I dont want the game to turn into farming taxes and managing land (unless the PCs want that aspect which I dont think they do) but what are some cool ways I can get the PCs to solidify an actual claim on this property that makes sense in a sort of late medieval world. My first idea was that they would have to present their claim in front of the Governor and if he said yes they would be named "Burghers" which is sort of the medieval middle class in Germany and other places. But where I'm stuck is what they should have to do to actually claim their tower, performing a favor for the Governor seems wrong, presenting the Senate with a gift of money just feels like bleeding them, what are some cool ideas you guys have? Also would a tax system be too much or do you think it can be done with relatively little hassle? Thanks for your replies:smallsmile:

Slipperychicken
2016-09-13, 11:11 PM
They'd probably have to convince whoever legally owns the tower or the land it's built on. Which most likely means paying that person a lot of money. There's also the matter of cleaning it, renovating it, refurnishing it, and so on.


I'm not too worried about bleeding my players for gold. Money-sinks like this give value to money in-game, and provide the players with good reasons to adventure for more.

I'd probably think up a few upgrades for the tower and let the players obsess over which ones they want to buy. Most of it would be vanity stuff like clearing the vegetation, filling in all the little cracks, moving in some matching comfy furniture (in a style and color of the players' choosing), artworks, plant decorations, quality food in storage, servants to keep the place clean and tidy, guards to keep it safe (i.e. to help them when I roll to see if it's burglarized), uniforms for the guards and servants, banners to hang and make it clear who owns the place, repainting the tower's exterior so it doesn't look so run-down, magical plumbing, nonmagical lighting, and so on.

Trask
2016-09-13, 11:31 PM
They'd probably have to convince whoever legally owns the tower or the land it's built on. Which most likely means paying that person a lot of money. There's also the matter of cleaning it, renovating it, refurnishing it, and so on.


I'm not too worried about bleeding my players for gold. Money-sinks like this give value to money in-game, and provide the players with good reasons to adventure for more.

I'd probably think up a few upgrades for the tower and let the players obsess over which ones they want to buy. Most of it would be vanity stuff like clearing the vegetation, filling in all the little cracks, moving in some matching comfy furniture (in a style and color of the players' choosing), artworks, plant decorations, quality food in storage, servants to keep the place clean and tidy, guards to keep it safe (i.e. to help them when I roll to see if it's burglarized), uniforms for the guards and servants, banners to hang and make it clear who owns the place, repainting the tower's exterior so it doesn't look so run-down, magical plumbing, nonmagical lighting, and so on.

Well the legal owner is dead. He was a wizard who died peacefully a decade ago and his tower fell into disrepair. he was undisturbed by the goblins due to his construct on the 4th and top floor. I suppose I should work out how tower ownership works first. And yeah Im not opposed to making the tower a nice money sink that the PCs can feel invested in, but if they want to claim it officially and legally then i dont want the Governor to simply say "hmmm, a donation to the senate would be nice" that seems a tad boring. The thing is I know next to nothing about how people went about acquiring property in the late middle ages, let alone a wizards tower which wasnt really a thing.

But I do like the idea of letting them customize it and buy stuff, although I suspect my PCs might be more in the market for battlements and boiling oil than fancy rugs. The tower is on somewhat of a borderland between the forest and the farmlands, so Im thinking possibly that the PCs could be charged with keeping it safe? Is that maybe too much to heap on them? Theyre only 2nd level, they managed to pull this off with a lot of initiative and good roleplay so i dont feel bad about them getting this early on, but i feel that maybe i should stretch it out over levels. Maybe the claim takes a while to reach the Governor's desk.

Koo Rehtorb
2016-09-13, 11:35 PM
I don't know if this is more of an early middle ages thing or not, but you might need to be some sort of nobility in order to legally own land.

You could always do some sort of "quest" to prove themselves worthy of minor nobility before anyone would consider signing land over. I'm sure someone in power could make use of a party of adventurers to get something done.

Trask
2016-09-13, 11:40 PM
I don't know if this is more of an early middle ages thing or not, but you might need to be some sort of nobility in order to legally own land.

You could always do some sort of "quest" to prove themselves worthy of minor nobility before anyone would consider signing land over. I'm sure someone in power could make use of a party of adventurers to get something done.

Well the city isnt really feudal, its more late middle ages early transition to a bourgeois capitalist society from a feudal one. Plutocratic senators, minimum property and wealth to run for senate, no king or inherited titles and all that so thats why i thought it might be easy and fun for the players to claim this tower if they fixed it up since theres no noble strings attached.

Friv
2016-09-14, 12:00 AM
Here's my thought, looking at this from the perspective of the townsfolk.

There was an old, powerful* wizard living on the edge of town. He had skills that were useful, but then he died, he had no heirs and no one claimed his tower because they were worried about potential magical traps left over. Then a bunch of goblins moved in, and presumably did some raiding on the edges of the town, while relying on the tower's reputation to avoid getting cleared out by the townsfolk.

(* - He might not have actually been that powerful, but compared to the locals, I assume he was a big deal.)

Then a group of heavily armed ladies and gentlemen moseyed into town, chatted with the locals, and said, "Goblins, eh? Wizard, eh? We can do something about that." And then they went and did something about that, and now they've come back, the raiders have been wiped out, and they're asking about who owns that tower, anyway, because they're sort of interested in moving in, setting up a little fort, that sort of thing.

I'm the local governor. You better believe I give those guys the tower, and I give them whatever the lowest title for landed citizens there is around here. Having them in that tower means the following:

* No more monsters strolling in.
* Someone to deal with those magical traps that might still exist
* A gang of highly skilled warriors living in the area who've already proven that they're both rich and friendly.

There aren't taxes, unless the players start trying to buy up local farmlands in addition to the tower itself, in which case they'll have stories with the real gentry. Instead, the rent price is that if people invade, these guys have to either show up to fight, or send people to fight (the classic feudal model). From the players' point of view, that's probably something they were going to do anyway if they're settling around here, so it's a win-win.

*EDIT* This also has the advantage that what the players pay to have the tower, instead of money, is story hooks. Now that they live here, and are charged with a piece of defense, people might come to them with problems. And we all know that the reward people offer is less than what you earn clearing the dungeon itself out, so having those requests not have formal rewards attached won't be a problem. (It may have informal rewards, mind you, since creating a large safe area improves the farms and towns, and thus improves what the players can get ahold of to improve their tower.)

Trask
2016-09-14, 12:41 AM
Here's my thought, looking at this from the perspective of the townsfolk.

There was an old, powerful* wizard living on the edge of town. He had skills that were useful, but then he died, he had no heirs and no one claimed his tower because they were worried about potential magical traps left over. Then a bunch of goblins moved in, and presumably did some raiding on the edges of the town, while relying on the tower's reputation to avoid getting cleared out by the townsfolk.

(* - He might not have actually been that powerful, but compared to the locals, I assume he was a big deal.)

Then a group of heavily armed ladies and gentlemen moseyed into town, chatted with the locals, and said, "Goblins, eh? Wizard, eh? We can do something about that." And then they went and did something about that, and now they've come back, the raiders have been wiped out, and they're asking about who owns that tower, anyway, because they're sort of interested in moving in, setting up a little fort, that sort of thing.

I'm the local governor. You better believe I give those guys the tower, and I give them whatever the lowest title for landed citizens there is around here. Having them in that tower means the following:

* No more monsters strolling in.
* Someone to deal with those magical traps that might still exist
* A gang of highly skilled warriors living in the area who've already proven that they're both rich and friendly.

There aren't taxes, unless the players start trying to buy up local farmlands in addition to the tower itself, in which case they'll have stories with the real gentry. Instead, the rent price is that if people invade, these guys have to either show up to fight, or send people to fight (the classic feudal model). From the players' point of view, that's probably something they were going to do anyway if they're settling around here, so it's a win-win.

*EDIT* This also has the advantage that what the players pay to have the tower, instead of money, is story hooks. Now that they live here, and are charged with a piece of defense, people might come to them with problems. And we all know that the reward people offer is less than what you earn clearing the dungeon itself out, so having those requests not have formal rewards attached won't be a problem. (It may have informal rewards, mind you, since creating a large safe area improves the farms and towns, and thus improves what the players can get ahold of to improve their tower.)

Thanks for the reply, you comment on my threads a fair bit and you always have really nice input so thanks. I do like the idea of making the players sort of defenders of the borderlands because it kind of lets them go whatever way they want with the adventure at this point. If they want to become gentry they can, or they can simply defend the people. Earn glory and prestige and none of it requires tedious book keeping (if they dont want it). I might make it easier later on when they gain more renown and fame to get more money so they can feel more accomplished. I do have a big megadungeon in the north that the players have started to go and try to explore so that can also be a source of wealth and also make the tower feel like a sort of home after a long journey. Comfy and safe. So far I am digging this a lot and I think my players will too.

Martin Greywolf
2016-09-14, 02:30 AM
1) Medieval land ownership

You pretty much have it mostly backwards, early middle ages saw plenty of non-nobles owning land (they tend to be referred to as freemen), as time went on, their numbers declined for a number of reasons.

So, what does happen to a tower once owner dies? First, you go through his descendants and family, if you can't find any, it gets ugly. Technically, it should revert to someone, be that the king, local noble or the city, but shenanigans were very, very common when it came to this.

If the city is on the frontier, which seems likely what with the goblins, there may be a law that states that if you just go live on a piece of land/property and no one has problem with it for a time, you get to be the legal owner. Colonization of Americas saw a few laws like these, as did medieval Europe. In many cases, you even got tax breaks when you came to live there.

2) Trouble for PCs

Getting the tower in the first place won't be that hard - having someone who is not goblins and pays taxes there is good for the locals. As long as the PCs aren't serfs or slaves, they're home free, and will only get in trouble if they disturb public peace in some way.

That said, they can run into plenty of problems. There are likely things they want to have there that are illegal. While you likely didn't outlaw swords (a lot of medieval cities did), the MAN may take issue with PCs carting five ballistas and three trebuchets in there (if nothing else, it's a risk to city if it ever came under siege). Things necessary for alchemy and spellcasting may also be regulated in some way. Getting permissions/exceptions/illegal channels for these things can make a neat adventure.

Lastly, someone may want the tower, once PCs put significant cash into renovating it. A supposed descendant of the original owner turns up, local noble wants to extort it back from the players, the works. Honestly, you could make an entire campaign out of this.

Lastly, there's the legacy. Previous owner of the tower may have hidden something in there - maybe just gold, maybe a piece of a map to a treasure, whatever you like. It may even be hidden in something PCs see every day. And, of course, someone wants it and is willing to kill for it.

Trask
2016-09-14, 02:59 AM
1) Medieval land ownership

You pretty much have it mostly backwards, early middle ages saw plenty of non-nobles owning land (they tend to be referred to as freemen), as time went on, their numbers declined for a number of reasons.

So, what does happen to a tower once owner dies? First, you go through his descendants and family, if you can't find any, it gets ugly. Technically, it should revert to someone, be that the king, local noble or the city, but shenanigans were very, very common when it came to this.

If the city is on the frontier, which seems likely what with the goblins, there may be a law that states that if you just go live on a piece of land/property and no one has problem with it for a time, you get to be the legal owner. Colonization of Americas saw a few laws like these, as did medieval Europe. In many cases, you even got tax breaks when you came to live there.

2) Trouble for PCs

Getting the tower in the first place won't be that hard - having someone who is not goblins and pays taxes there is good for the locals. As long as the PCs aren't serfs or slaves, they're home free, and will only get in trouble if they disturb public peace in some way.

That said, they can run into plenty of problems. There are likely things they want to have there that are illegal. While you likely didn't outlaw swords (a lot of medieval cities did), the MAN may take issue with PCs carting five ballistas and three trebuchets in there (if nothing else, it's a risk to city if it ever came under siege). Things necessary for alchemy and spellcasting may also be regulated in some way. Getting permissions/exceptions/illegal channels for these things can make a neat adventure.

Lastly, someone may want the tower, once PCs put significant cash into renovating it. A supposed descendant of the original owner turns up, local noble wants to extort it back from the players, the works. Honestly, you could make an entire campaign out of this.

Lastly, there's the legacy. Previous owner of the tower may have hidden something in there - maybe just gold, maybe a piece of a map to a treasure, whatever you like. It may even be hidden in something PCs see every day. And, of course, someone wants it and is willing to kill for it.

Maybe I'm confusing Late Medieval and Pre-Industrial. Thanks for clearing that up.

LibraryOgre
2016-09-14, 05:51 AM
Another option would be that the governor doesn't charge rent, per se, but does "ask" that they "allow" a couple of guards to be stationed there... Perhaps at the city's expense, perhaps at theirs (the 3rd amendment is a historical artifact NOW, but was a really important provision 200 years ago).

Now, the guards WILL guard. They'll keep out the riff raff, certainly, and may even feed the cat while you're out. But they'll also be loyal to the governor and agents of the law... Do they want that in their house? Do they dare say no?

Jay R
2016-09-14, 10:16 AM
You've established that the law couldn't help the legal owner keep possession, so go with it. It now belongs to the PCs, for the same reason they own all the treasure they found inside it - because they hold it and will defend it.

Unless the governor plans to conquer the tower (and can), he has no say in it.

I'd go full feudal. The land around it for many miles wasn't being farmed - unless by goblins - because there was a tower of goblins nearby. So now the PCs advertise good available farmland, protected by the tower, and invite farmers to move in. Hire some guards to protect the land, and then maybe establish a treaty with the governor - as equals.

Some greedy noble might decide to annex the land. This makes a great set of adventures while the fief is getting started.

The PCs then declare the land to be a barony, name one of themselves the baron/ess, and dare anybody to deny it. Soon they should justify that claim by elevating the best of their guards to an elite private order of knighthood.

Friv
2016-09-17, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the reply, you comment on my threads a fair bit and you always have really nice input so thanks.

Missed this in a swarm of weekly activity, so just wanted to say, glad you enjoy my comments! :D

It's funny - I was just running a game where, upon learning that there was a massive and previously-unknown dungeon full of magical treasure in the area, and that the local village was just a tiny farming place, my players decided to build an inn to capitalize on all the adventurers that were about to move in.