Giving up iterative attacks

[torrasque666]

Are there any feats or abilities that let one give up additional attacks for a benefit on a single strike? Something like the Dead Eye shot deed for a pathfinder gunslinger? Preferably 3.5 over Pathfinder.

[Krazzman]

Pathfinder:
Vitalstrike Feat Chain as well as Path of War and Pummeling Style (or the other one from ACG, always mixing them up...)

3.5:
Tome of Battle


Hope this helps

[torrasque666]

3.5:
Tome of Battle


Hope this helps
I'm not looking for the kinds of things in Tome of Battle. I suppose I should have worded it better. Are there any ways in 3.5 (as pathfinder has already been noted) to get the damage of multiple attacks in a single attack? Tome of Battle maneuvers aren't really the answer I'm looking for, as those are more of "make a single attack, get some rider effects" instead of "make a single attack, deal damage as if you hit multiple times"

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'm not looking for the kinds of things in Tome of Battle. I suppose I should have worded it better. Are there any ways in 3.5 (as pathfinder has already been noted) to get the damage of multiple attacks in a single attack? Tome of Battle maneuvers aren't really the answer I'm looking for, as those are more of "make a single attack, get some rider effects" instead of "make a single attack, deal damage as if you hit multiple times"

There are many Strike's in ToB which deal Full-Attack level damage. Not explicitly multiply by X, but similar values. Diamond Mind comes to... mind.

[Necroticplague]

I'm not looking for the kinds of things in Tome of Battle. I suppose I should have worded it better. Are there any ways in 3.5 (as pathfinder has already been noted) to get the damage of multiple attacks in a single attack? Tome of Battle maneuvers aren't really the answer I'm looking for, as those are more of "make a single attack, get some rider effects" instead of "make a single attack, deal damage as if you hit multiple times"

Not that I know of. That's pretty much exclusively a PF mechanic.

[Krazzman]

I'm not looking for the kinds of things in Tome of Battle. I suppose I should have worded it better. Are there any ways in 3.5 (as pathfinder has already been noted) to get the damage of multiple attacks in a single attack? Tome of Battle maneuvers aren't really the answer I'm looking for, as those are more of "make a single attack, get some rider effects" instead of "make a single attack, deal damage as if you hit multiple times"


There are many Strike's in ToB which deal Full-Attack level damage. Not explicitly multiply by X, but similar values. Diamond Mind comes to... mind.

I just wrote ToB since I thought about Time Stands Still or Avalanche of Blades (mix those two up all the time).
VitalStrike is easily backwards compatible as are the Style feats.

[torrasque666]

Ok cards on the table. Recently started rewatching G Gundam. Want to try to make Burning Gundam (Warforged obviously). Looking for a way to recreate the hammiest of moves, Erupting Burning Finger.

[Krazzman]

Ok cards on the table. Recently started rewatching G Gundam. Want to try to make Burning Gundam (Warforged obviously). Looking for a way to recreate the hammiest of moves, Erupting Burning Finger.

Jokeanswer: Spell Thematics+Finger of Death?

Desert Wind has Fire maneuvers. Maybe getting a way to get a boost + another maneuver?

[Thurbane]

I'm not looking for the kinds of things in Tome of Battle. I suppose I should have worded it better. Are there any ways in 3.5 (as pathfinder has already been noted) to get the damage of multiple attacks in a single attack? Tome of Battle maneuvers aren't really the answer I'm looking for, as those are more of "make a single attack, get some rider effects" instead of "make a single attack, deal damage as if you hit multiple times"

I'm not 100% I'm understanding what you're looking for correctly, but if I am understanding, sounds a bit like the Decisive Strike Monk ACF (PHB 2), or the Overpowering Attack Fighter ACF (also in PHB2). Both of these trade multiple attacks for one more powerful attack.

Just looked up the anime you're referencing, and I'd say Decisive Strike, possibly combined with the Dragonfire Assault feat (Dragon Magic).

[Jowgen]

I believe the Targeteer fighter variant from Dragon 310 has the ability to sacrifice attacks to increase one attacks crit-range by 1 point per attack sacrificed.

[Red Fel]

Ok cards on the table. Recently started rewatching G Gundam. Want to try to make Burning Gundam (Warforged obviously). Looking for a way to recreate the hammiest of moves, Erupting Burning Finger.

Funny story, I actually did a thread or two premised around this. There was this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?380611-Seven-Heavens-Seven-Palms-Building-an-Unarmed-Holy-Dude), which was about an unarmed combatant with holy fists (and talks about cool named attacks, because duh), but the one you really want to look at is this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?328610-3-5-Build-This-Hand-of-Mine-Glows), which is more or less exactly what you're describing - the Clawlock. The Clawlock thread was, admittedly, a gestalt build, but you can do a lot single-classed too.

The trick is a combination of feats - Eldritch Claws, which lets you make two claw attacks that deal (unarmed + Eldritch Blast) damage, and Beast Strike, which adds your claw damage to your iterative unarmed attacks. That means that, when making a full attack with your Eldritch Claws active, your iterative strikes each deal (unarmed + unarmed + EB) damage, followed by two claw attacks which each deal (unarmed + EB) damage. Also, hand glows with an awesome power, etc.

Plus you're a flying laser robot.

[Ruethgar]

There is a Targeteer class feature that lets you get rid of iterative attacks, AFB can't recall what it did. Ranged only though, I think it increased crit range? Dragon 310 IIRC

[Diarmuid]

Monk ACF in PHB2 (I think) called Decisive Strike.

Full attack action, with a penalty that scales down as you level to make a single attack that deals double damage.

[Thurbane]

I believe the Targeteer fighter variant from Dragon 310 has the ability to sacrifice attacks to increase one attacks crit-range by 1 point per attack sacrificed.

There is a Targeteer class feature that lets you get rid of iterative attacks, AFB can't recall what it did. Ranged only though, I think it increased crit range? Dragon 310 IIRC


I'm not 100% I'm understanding what you're looking for correctly, but if I am understanding, sounds a bit like the Decisive Strike Monk ACF (PHB 2), or the Overpowering Attack Fighter ACF (also in PHB2). Both of these trade multiple attacks for one more powerful attack.

Just looked up the anime you're referencing, and I'd say Decisive Strike, possibly combined with the Dragonfire Assault feat (Dragon Magic).

Monk ACF in PHB2 (I think) called Decisive Strike.

Full attack action, with a penalty that scales down as you level to make a single attack that deals double damage.

...speaking of iteration :smalltongue:

[Âmesang]

If you're Large or larger you could take the war hulk prestige class from Miniature's Handbook. :smalltongue: Give up iterative attacks (and base attack bonus) in exchange for increased Strength and attacking multiple targets per attack.

[Eldariel]

The standard fare charge stacking is just this; of course, thanks to the existence of Pounce it gets kinda silly. But it's certainly possible to build that Gigaton Punch. And the X Nightmare Blade maneuvers from Diamond Mind are precisely "deal X times damage" (4 times for the highest one).

[darkdragoon]

Feats:
Stormguard Warrior from Tome of Battle lets you forgo attacks for a boost the next turn.

Dirty Fighting lets you make one attack as full-round for a tiny damage bonus.

Dual Strike: hit with both weapons but with penalties and no doubling of bonuses and still requires TWF and friends

[Sapreaver]

Jokeanswer: Spell Thematics+Finger of Death?

Desert Wind has Fire maneuvers. Maybe getting a way to get a boost + another maneuver?

your post is rock solid my friend.

[Extra Anchovies]

The trick is a combination of feats - Eldritch Claws, which lets you make two claw attacks that deal (unarmed + Eldritch Blast) damage, and Beast Strike, which adds your claw damage to your iterative unarmed attacks. That means that, when making a full attack with your Eldritch Claws active, your iterative strikes each deal (unarmed + unarmed + EB) damage, followed by two claw attacks which each deal (unarmed + EB) damage. Also, hand glows with an awesome power, etc.

One thing that's worth noting is that adding two extra claw attacks onto the full attack is some questionable handling of the rules. There's no direct RAW that a character can only make one type of attack with a given limb in each turn - but I can pelt you with Monster Manual citations if need be. Werebear (greataxe and claw and bite, or 2 claws and bite) and Troll Hunter (battleaxe and claw and bite or 2 claws and bite) are the first two that I can dig up. Because Eldritch Claws extend from your hands, you have to use your arms to make the claw attacks. Thus, attacking with both claws precludes using either of your arms for your iterative attack routine. Since you're not using your arms or hands for your iterative unarmed strikes, you're making those unarmed strikes with some part of the body that doesn't have Eldritch Claws extending from them. Now, the RAW of Beast Strike doesn't exactly say that you can only add claw or slam damage to unarmed strikes made with the part of the body used to make those claw or slam attacks, so you could try to squeeze through that loophole and apply Eldritch Claw damage to your kicks. I recommend against asking your DM to let you do that, though, because they'll probably respond with a DMG aimed at your forehead.

However, making your iterative unarmed strikes with one claw-hand and then adding on one secondary claw attack from the other hand is perfectly rules-kosher.

[prufock]

Intimidating Strike feat deals damage and possible fear effect as a standard action.

[Zombimode]

Dirty Fighting lets you make one attack as full-round for a tiny damage bonus.

Does this feat actually exists outside of Neverwinter Nights?

[ShurikVch]

Does this feat actually exists outside of Neverwinter Nights?Yes.
It's in the Sword and Fist

[CharonsHelper]

Ok cards on the table. Recently started rewatching G Gundam. Want to try to make Burning Gundam (Warforged obviously). Looking for a way to recreate the hammiest of moves, Erupting Burning Finger.

There's a pretty easy Pathfinder way to do this. Just be a Kensai Magus with a 1 level Umonk dip (crazy high defenses since you get INT & WIS to AC) and use Spellstrike on your unarmed attack for various effects.

[ShurikVch]

Ok cards on the table. Recently started rewatching G Gundam. Want to try to make Burning Gundam (Warforged obviously). Looking for a way to recreate the hammiest of moves, Erupting Burning Finger.My suggestion: how about the Jade Phoenix Mage?
Arcane Wrath CF allow to give up prepared spell or spell slot to get for your next attack +4 on attack roll, and +1d10/spell's level on damage
If you will use Arcane Wrath with Empower Supernatural Ability (Tome of Magic) and Power Surge (Dragon #313) feats on 9th level slot - you will get +6 on attack and (9d10 + 9)x1,5 of damage

[Jay R]

I'm not looking for the kinds of things in Tome of Battle. I suppose I should have worded it better. Are there any ways in 3.5 (as pathfinder has already been noted) to get the damage of multiple attacks in a single attack? Tome of Battle maneuvers aren't really the answer I'm looking for, as those are more of "make a single attack, get some rider effects" instead of "make a single attack, deal damage as if you hit multiple times"

If I understand you, you want the equivalent of saying that if you make your first strike, the others hit automatically. Is that (functionally) what you're looking for?

[Telok]

Which is more appropriate? A melee version of Multishot, Emerald Razor + Power Attack, or Greater Insightful Strike (1d20 + concentration, doubled).

[Red Fel]

One thing that's worth noting is that adding two extra claw attacks onto the full attack is some questionable handling of the rules. There's no direct RAW that a character can only make one type of attack with a given limb in each turn - but I can pelt you with Monster Manual citations if need be.

Actually, this is a one-and-done citation. Monster Manual, p. 299:

If a creature has both a manufactured weapon and natural weapons, it usually uses its manufactured weapon as its primary attack (and receives multiple attacks with that weapons, if its base attack bonus is +6 or higher), and uses its natural weapons as secondary attacks (-5 penalty on attack rolls, and 1/2 Strength bonus on damage rolls). While a humanoid fighting with two weapons takes a -2 penalty (or worse) on its primary attack, a monster fighting with a hand-held weapon and a natural weapon at the same time does not take this penalty - the natural weapon is a secondary attack, and that's all.
So, we know that a monster can use natural and manufactured weapons in conjunction on a full attack. Note the language - it gets iterative attacks with a manufactured weapon, and "uses its natural weapons as secondary attacks", plural. So you can do iteratives and natural weapons on a full attack.

We also know that it's a free action to release your hold on a weapon, thereby allowing you to separately use your weapon and your unarmed strikes. It seems an absurd reach of logic to say that a creature could therefore, for instance, use a longsword, unclench its grip, then use unarmed strikes, and could use a longsword, unclench, then use claws, but could not punch, unclench, and then use claws.

Further, unarmed strikes can be made by any body part - fists, elbows, knees, etc. It seems similarly unreasonable to say that you can use an iterative sequence of knee strikes followed by your claws, but if you're using your fists - a mechanically identical function - this is somehow a rules violation.

Unarmed strikes are generally treated the same as manufactured weapons for the purpose of iterative attacks, although they are natural weapons and thus not usually subject to effects that specifically target manufactured weapons. I think it's a bit of a rules reach to say that you can use a longsword then claws, or knee strikes then claws, but somehow punches followed by claws are right out.

[Endarire]

Player's Handbook II 45 has the Overpowering Attack Fighter16 ACF. Yes, you must be Fighter16 to take this, but as a full-round action, you may make a single attack at your highest BAB and deal double damage if you hit.

Locke Downe (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471446-A-Little-Lock-Build-for-You-AKA-quot-Locke-Downe-quot-(Aelryinth)) reminded me of this ACF.

[Extra Anchovies]

Note: this post assumes the characters being discussed have two grasping appendages, both of which are arms. The wording of this post would be different if it assumed a multi-armed character, but wrestling with semantics is pointless.


So you can do iteratives and natural weapons on a full attack.

That is correct. However, it says nothing about whether a creature can make attacks with natural and manufactured weapons in the same attack routine using the same appendage, so your citation does not answer the question at hand (no pun intended).


We also know that it's a free action to release your hold on a weapon, thereby allowing you to separately use your weapon and your unarmed strikes.

We're not talking about unarmed + manufactured, we're talking about unarmed + natural. TWF rules are irrelevant here.


It seems an absurd reach of logic to say that a creature could therefore, for instance, use a longsword, unclench its grip, then use unarmed strikes, and could use a longsword, unclench, then use claws, but could not punch, unclench, and then use claws.

It would be an absurd reach of logic if unarmed strikes required use of the fist and if the character only had one hand. A character holding a longsword can make a full attack with the longsword and then make off-hand unarmed attacks with a different appendage, such as a knee or an arm other than the one holding the longsword. A character holding a longsword can make a full attack with the longsword and then make natural attacks with natural weapons not attached to the limb used to make the longsword attacks.

Quoth the Monster Manual:

Hound Archon (MM p. 17), Bite and Slam or Greatsword and Bite
Balor (MM p. 40), Longsword and Whip or 2 Slams
Marilith (MM p. 44), Primary Longsword and 5 Secondary Longswords or 6 Slams
Horned Devil (MM p. 55), Spiked Chain and Bite and Tail or 2 Claws and Bite and Tail
Ice Devil (MM p. 56), Spear and Bite and Tail or 2 Claws and Bite and Tail
Half-Dragon (MM p. 146), Two-Bladed Sword and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Half-Fiend (MM p. 147), Morningstar (one-handed) and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Lizardfolk (MM p. 169), Club (two-handed) and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Hybrid Form Werebear (MM p. 171), Greataxe and Claw and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Hybrid Form Wereboar (MM p. 172), Battleaxe (two-handed) and Gore or 2 Claws and Gore
Hybrid Form Werewolf Lord (MM p. 176), Bastard Sword (one-handed) and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Sahuagin (MM p. 217), Trident (two-handed) and Bite or 2 Talons and Bite
Ettin Skeleton (MM p. 227), 2 Morningstars or 2 Claws
Troglodyte (MM p. 246), Club (two-handed) and Claw and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Troll Hunter (MM p. 246), Battleaxe (one-handed) and Claw and Bite or 2 Claws and Bite
Xill (MM p. 259), 2 Short Swords and 2 Claws or 4 Claws

In some of those entries, the authors seem to have forgotten that wielding a weapon only locks out one grasping appendage from making natural attacks, but my point stands: the text indicates that a limb cannot be used for both natural attacks and other weapon attacks in the same attack sequence.


Further, unarmed strikes can be made by any body part - fists, elbows, knees, etc. It seems similarly unreasonable to say that you can use an iterative sequence of knee strikes followed by your claws, but if you're using your fists - a mechanically identical function - this is somehow a rules violation.

See, it's not a rules violation. It's just that anyone with an iota of sense will consider it to be one.

There's a definite rules-as-written, this-is-why-we-hate-lawyers argument to be made that natural weapons are never explicitly attached to specific parts of the body, and that Beast Strike never explicitly requires that unarmed strikes must be made with the limbs to which the claw or slam attacks are attached for the claw or slam damage to be added to the unarmed strikes, but that's an argument that needs to be kept as far away as possible from actual play because it's absolute nonsense.


Unarmed strikes are generally treated the same as manufactured weapons for the purpose of iterative attacks, although they are natural weapons and thus not usually subject to effects that specifically target manufactured weapons. I think it's a bit of a rules reach to say that you can use a longsword then claws, or knee strikes then claws, but somehow punches followed by claws are right out.

Punches followed by claws are right out, and longsword followed by claws is right out. Knee strikes followed by claws works fine, because the unarmed attacks are being made with a different limb than the natural attacks. Punches followed by claw (singular) works fine, because the unarmed attacks are being made with a different limb than the natural attack. Longsword followed by claw (singular) works fine, because the unarmed attacks are being made with a different limb than the natural attack. But trying to use Beast Strike to attach the damage of a natural attack made with a certain limb to unarmed strikes made with a different limb is drown-healing levels of bullheaded rules-lawyering.

[darkdragoon]

A few more "do this as full-round"

Shield Charge
Shield Slam

Blood-Spiked Charger