Need help keeping an epic level world ending secret in game.

[Recurver]

As the title says. My character has (in game) learned the TRUE NAME of a goddess and needs to keep that as secret as possible. My Gm is running the "true name" thing like this : when you know someones true name you have absolute power over them. That means my character has absolute power over one of this custom universes deities. In spite of how good that sounds, its really not. My character is a paragon of all that is good and would/will never use that true name, but others will if they find out about it. Forgetting a true name is impossible (gm call) and in this custom universe my biggest concern is that there is a very common race that can glean information from your mind just by touching you. I am aware of mind blank items and that's great, however, there are also some evil gods who would want this info.
i have a high level artificer at my disposal and all custom items are welcome as long as there's a spell to use in it.
with that in mind i need an item, method, or feat that could even stop a GOD from accessing my characters mind.
funds are 500,000 gold just for this alone.
nothing immoral though, remember he's super goody goody.
Thanks in advance.

[Name1]

There is nothing aside from a Fusion that could help you with that. SDAs function inside AMFs, so magically protecting your mind wouldn't make sense. Getting access to the pride domain would still do nothing but delay the inevitable. The reason for that is that WotC's Deities and Demigods is borked far beyond what even the BoVD is capable of (No-Save instant death that's harder to come back from than a Sphere of Anihilation? What the actual f**k?).

Against spellcasters or psions, a simple Mind Blank spell works, as long as you don't get it dispelled. Alternatively, you could turn Deathless (undead, but good) or become a construct. You could also self-terminate, which is probably your safest bet since even deities can't bring you back if you don't want to come back.

You are good, you are all about self-sacrifice.

[Recurver]

There is nothing aside from a Fusion that could help you with that. SDAs function inside AMFs, so magically protecting your mind wouldn't make sense. Getting access to the pride domain would still do nothing but delay the inevitable. The reason for that is that WotC's Deities and Demigods is borked far beyond what even the BoVD is capable of (No-Save instant death that's harder to come back from than a Sphere of Anihilation? What the actual f**k?).

Against spellcasters or psions, a simple Mind Blank spell works, as long as you don't get it dispelled. Alternatively, you could turn Deathless (undead, but good) or become a construct. You could also self-terminate, which is probably your safest bet since even deities can't bring you back if you don't want to come back.

You are good, you are all about self-sacrifice.

I like the idea. my character has an extra-planer angel wife. so very near the start of the campaign he got the spell "kissed by the ages" cast on him so that he would be as ageless as she is. he searched for a while first for different methods of being ageless, he actually found and befriended the Progenitor of all vampires who offered to turn him into a good vampire (a more powerful version of a regular vampire to boot) my character said no, and thanked her for the offer but refused in the hopes of a more agreeable possibility of agelessness. but now he may have cause to accept the offer. how does being undead help though? I thought the whole " unaffected by mind based stuff" was for unintelligent undead only, am i wrong on this?

[OldTrees1]

You are dooooomed!

Yes becoming an intelligent undead will protect you from mind effecting effects, but, as many X vs Y threads have shown us, someone can find out the secret anyways.

Your only hope is that your method of secrecy is good enough for as long as it matters. Hopefully your doom only happens after the campaign epilogue.

[Inevitability]

Kill yourself in a way that destroys your soul: that way even a deity with Gift of Life or Life and Death can't resurrect you. You're Good: acknowledge that a heroic sacrifice is needed here.

As for the exact means of soul-destruction, a Sphere of Annihilation has been stated to work. Trap the Soul or Soul Bind also works, getting your caster a soul gem that can be used as a material component.

[Morcleon]

Have your character write an unpublished novel. Use the goddess' truename as the name of a minor character. Cast Programmed Amnesia on yourself to forget all context about the truename beyond its relevance in the book. Now, whenever anyone reads your mind, they will know all about the novel you wrote and will be unaware of the true significance of the name.

[Recurver]

Have your character write an unpublished novel. Use the goddess' truename as the name of a minor character. Cast Programmed Amnesia on yourself to forget all context about the truename beyond its relevance in the book. Now, whenever anyone reads your mind, they will know all about the novel you wrote and will be unaware of the true significance of the name.
I THINK I LOVE YOU! That is the single most brilliantly simple and usable loophole I've ever heard of. It even gets around the whole "cant forget a true name" rule. i'm not forgetting the name itself just its meaning. that is so beautiful. genuinely brought a tear to my eye.

[ahenobarbi]

Since you can controll the goddess nie have her grant you as many divine ranks as agree can and become her boss.

[Recurver]

Kill yourself in a way that destroys your soul: that way even a deity with Gift of Life or Life and Death can't resurrect you. You're Good: acknowledge that a heroic sacrifice is needed here.

As for the exact means of soul-destruction, a Sphere of Annihilation has been stated to work. Trap the Soul or Soul Bind also works, getting your caster a soul gem that can be used as a material component.
already on it. Currently have a creature that follows me around everywhere i go (its minuscule and invisible) that will eat my soul immediately upon my death. It's a little scary playing a character that can never be resurrected, but that's what he'd do. as far as suicide is concerned, he wont do it. If he dies then no one would continue his current quest to save his children from eternal slumber.

Family First. but he will end his own life if it seems the only way to save the planet. Last resort.

Appreciate the advice:smallsmile:

[Inevitability]

already on it. Currently have a creature that follows me around everywhere i go (its minuscule and invisible) that will eat my soul immediately upon my death. It's a little scary playing a character that can never be resurrected, but that's what he'd do. as far as suicide is concerned, he wont do it. If he dies then no one would continue his current quest to save his children from eternal slumber.

Family First. but he will end his own life if it seems the only way to save the planet. Last resort.

Appreciate the advice:smallsmile:

Happy to help, and it's good to know there's this soul-eating critter tagging along. Finding a means of soul-destruction was supposed to be the tricky part, but you already took care of it.

[Recurver]

Since you can controll the goddess nie have her grant you as many divine ranks as agree can and become her boss.
She is a very good deity, sadly, or he would. He's a paragon of all that is good and wouldn't even consider it. and she's not the problem. There's an ancient Elder god that knows of my character and pops in on him from time to time to humor himself and test my characters morality. If that evil son of a gun knew what i knew he'd use it against me and the goddess.

[Recurver]

Happy to help, and it's good to know there's this soul-eating critter tagging along. Finding a means of soul-destruction was supposed to be the tricky part, but you already took care of it.
Yeah. those creatures exist in my gm's world and will occasionally show up and latch onto a character (percentage chance of starting the game with one) They give minor bonuses that are usually never worth it for a no res character, but this time the soul eating actually turned out to be a bonus. who would have thought i'd ever be happy to have a soul eating monster attached to me. lol

[Zale]

Why not contact the goddess and ask for help?

I mean, if she's powerful enough to be important then she should be able to aid your efforts to avoid becoming a tool for the forces of evil.

[ahenobarbi]

She is a very good deity, sadly, or he would. He's a paragon of all that is good and wouldn't even consider it. and she's not the problem. There's an ancient Elder god that knows of my character and pops in on him from time to time to humor himself and test my characters morality. If that evil son of a gun knew what i knew he'd use it against me and the goddess.

Why not? There isn't anything evil about protecting your goddess and yourself by granting power to yourself (after all as an adventurer your doing that all the time, the only difference is you'd take a quicker route (but situation is dire)).

[Recurver]

Why not contact the goddess and ask for help?

I mean, if she's powerful enough to be important then she should be able to aid your efforts to avoid becoming a tool for the forces of evil.
hmm. a god level mind blank that functions against anything sounds nice. All this time and i never considered simply asking the goddess what to do about my concerns. i feel a bit silly now. thanks. she may well have a solution in mind. Been thinking as the goddess more as something that needs protection more than thinking of her as the god she is. Asking her for help is more than acceptable. a request may be refused. i like it. i'll try this first. then move on to programmed book amnesia. thanks

[Recurver]

Why not? There isn't anything evil about protecting your goddess and yourself by granting power to yourself (after all as an adventurer your doing that all the time, the only difference is you'd take a quicker route (but situation is dire)).
it's more the " command her to do it" part. My character has intentionally never made a command or demand of anyone or anything. he only ever requests. Using the true name would be a demand. however he might request it.
thanks.

[ace rooster]

Why not contact the goddess and ask for help?

I mean, if she's powerful enough to be important then she should be able to aid your efforts to avoid becoming a tool for the forces of evil.

Definitely seconding this, though with less of the asking. If anyone can help it is a deity, and this one can be commanded to help. Unfortunately they probably do need to be commanded to do so, as I doubt even a very shiny deity would risk letting their true name out, and so would destroy you before you finished your question. Worst case scenario is that you get the deity to rescue your children, after having destroyed you. Your commands should persist after your death, (knowledge it up) and a deity should have no problems with a mortal level quest.

[GungHo]

Is her name Shirley?

[Recurver]

Definitely seconding this, though with less of the asking. If anyone can help it is a deity, and this one can be commanded to help. Unfortunately they probably do need to be commanded to do so, as I doubt even a very shiny deity would risk letting their true name out, and so would destroy you before you finished your question. Worst case scenario is that you get the deity to rescue your children, after having destroyed you. Your commands should persist after your death, (knowledge it up) and a deity should have no problems with a mortal level quest.
Commanding someone to do a good deed against their will seems a bit like a moral "grey area", but one he might consider if all other options fail. something like "i command you to save my children and keep them safe in my absence. now i command you to kill me in order to keep your true name safe. sorry for commanding my lady, and i thank you for what you are about to do." love it. a very poetic ending to a very stoic man.

thanks

[Recurver]

Is her name Shirley?
No it is not. why? (suspicious glances) not telling you what it is.

[Red Fel]

See, my only issue with this is the idea that using the true name of a cosmically powerful being could compel their total obedience. Sure, it works fine in stories, but it just smacks of unrealism. I mean, there's no way to learn the name - anyone who could would basically become a god, themselves. Who writes this stuff down? Who ever shares it? What I'm trying to say is that this whole "true name compels obedience" thing is just weird to me.
Blue text is overrated.
Now, using a name ritualistically - let's say three times - to call upon a cosmically powerful being for advice, that makes perfect sense to me.

[Inevitability]

Now, using a name ritualistically - let's say three times - to call upon a cosmically powerful being for advice, that makes perfect sense to me.

The major question: what happens when you call upon Red Fel when he's already been summoned to the thread? Does the universe implode? Will time start flowing backward? Only one way to tell!

Red Fel...

Red Fel...

Red Fel!

[Name1]

Now, using a name ritualistically - let's say three times - to call upon a cosmically powerful being for advice, that makes perfect sense to me.

Well, I suppose you'd know, wouldn't you?


Anyway, I think I found a way how you can still be alive: Instead of using her divine shield, have her make a mind blank cast by her permanent. I didn't think of this before because the thing in the AMF spell description that permits this to work inside an AMF ("Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this") is something I always ignore and I, to this day, believe should get the guy who wrote it fired.

Anyway, that would allow you to just go on about your day without trouble most of the time.

[Metro Man]

The major question: what happens when you call upon Red Fel when he's already been summoned to the thread? Does the universe implode? Will time start flowing backward? Only one way to tell!

Red Fel...

Red Fel...

Red Fel!

Well, hi there!

[Inevitability]

Well, hi there!

Mission accomplished!

[Extra Anchovies]

If the Artificer is worth their salt they'll have picked up Craft Skull Talisman (frostburn?), which is like Brew Potion but for spells of any level. Get two skull talismans of Modify Memory. Use the first to erase your memory of the time you learned the truename. Use the second to replace your memory of the previous five minutes with a memory of using the first skull talisman to forget a particularly offensive limerick.

You know how Mindrape says it can be undone by Miracle or Wish? Modify Memory doesn't. All the artificer knows is that you needed two items to modify your own memory. All you know is that you used them to forget a poem you have no reason or desire to recall. I think you're set.

[Name1]

You know how Mindrape says it can be undone by Miracle or Wish? Modify Memory doesn't.

It's not instantaneous though, so it could possibly be dispelled.

[Extra Anchovies]

It's not instantaneous though, so it could possibly be dispelled.

Ach, you're right. I completely forgot to check that part of the spell description. Getting it as a (su) effect would help somewhat, but even that shuts off in an AMF. Any ideas?

[Name1]

Maybe a Dwoemerkeeper-Deity could do that by casting the spell, thus having it be Antimagic-Immune (Deity BS) and since it's (Su), it can't be dispelled.

[ILM]

Honestly it sounds like it's not just in the goddess' interest, but in all the gods' interest to keep her true name hidden. If it gets out she becomes the sock puppet of evil masterminds, who can then turn her power against the other gods or whatever they care about. With that in mind, I'd just encourage them to find you adequate protection.

[Name1]

Honestly it sounds like it's not just in the goddess' interest, but in all the gods' interest to keep her true name hidden. If it gets out she becomes the sock puppet of evil masterminds, who can then turn her power against the other gods or whatever they care about. With that in mind, I'd just encourage them to find you adequate protection.

Why would an Evil God care about a Good Deity being controlled by an evil force? Worst case scenario, he's still at odds with her. A Good Deity is just as much of a problem to the forces of Evil as an Evil Deity would be to either side. Seems to me like there is no reason for the Evil Deities to intervene in this.

[ace rooster]

Why would an Evil God care about a Good Deity being controlled by an evil force? Worst case scenario, he's still at odds with her. A Good Deity is just as much of a problem to the forces of Evil as an Evil Deity would be to either side. Seems to me like there is no reason for the Evil Deities to intervene in this.

Because evil is not one big happy family. This would be a major shift in the balance of power, and would probably not be welcome.

That said, if other deities have a problem with this, you have huge issues, because they will probably have even less qualms about simply destroying you than the good goddess* (with consequences for your children). Your occasional visitor might wonder what you are doing with a selection of items designed to modify memory if they get lucky with their timing, so any of those schemes have that failure mode. You are also dealing with deity magic, which is pretty arbitrarily powerful. Undoing the effects of a mortal spell (even an instantaneous one) might not be beyond them. I would doubt you could loophole your way around a god's true name anyway.

Not immediately suiciding is a huge risk to take, but if it is against your motivation it makes sense. On the other hand you have an immediate tool to safeguard your children, and neutralise the risk. The safest method may even be to do something like convert you into a petitioner not allowed more than 10' from her, meaning you may even get to keep your soul.

* If a relatively minor evil discovers that you have this secret, it is a far better option to try to capture and trade you, rather than learn the true name themselves, which would put them in your bind. If they used the name, they would probably attract the irk of major evils, and it would not end well. The greatest evils would fight over it, but would be far more willing to see you destroyed than be taken by a rival. If a good power decovers it, they would almost certainly decide that it needs to be destroyed. There is also the possibility of trading the information, in which case the play would be to keep an eye on you while they make the right trade. Are you sure that your visitor does not already know? Rushing would probably get you destroyed, which carries no profit for anyone, and letting you know that they were on to you would cause you to do something rash. Their behaviour is not inconsistant with this thinking.

[Recurver]

update on current situation. (gamed last night)
first: learned the name by accidentally traveling back to the beginning of the universe.
second: The goddess is aware that i know her true name and is totally ok with it.
third: Her brother and father are also aware that i know her true name and are ok with it.(think Zues and Poseidon)
fourth: They are all 3 going to assist me with keeping my mind locked away from all divination.
fifth: currently locked in an altered time trait dimension while the 3 combined gods cast a 100 year long ritual for the spell being used.
sixth: LOVE YOU GUYS. YOU ROCK!

[Name1]

Because evil is not one big happy family. This would be a major shift in the balance of power, and would probably not be welcome.

Yeah, I'm just saying that Evil Deities won't benefit more from her being Good than her being Evil. So it's not in ALL the gods interest, since it won't matter to the Evil Gods, which was what I was trying to say.

[Recurver]

See, my only issue with this is the idea that using the true name of a cosmically powerful being could compel their total obedience. Sure, it works fine in stories, but it just smacks of unrealism. I mean, there's no way to learn the name - anyone who could would basically become a god, themselves. Who writes this stuff down? Who ever shares it? What I'm trying to say is that this whole "true name compels obedience" thing is just weird to me.
Blue text is overrated.
Now, using a name ritualistically - let's say three times - to call upon a cosmically powerful being for advice, that makes perfect sense to me.
I agree with you actually. Total power from having only one small piece of knowledge seems very overpowered to me (and frankly scary). As far as not letting anyone know it, i also agree, the circumstances in which my character learned them were extraordinary (sent back in time to the making of the universe.). I don't think the GM expected me to politely introduce myself to the planet sized being currently crafting the forests of the planet. I'll have to talk to the gm about maybe making true names slightly harder to use. a.k.a. saying/small ritual first.:smallwink:

[Recurver]

Well, I suppose you'd know, wouldn't you?


Anyway, I think I found a way how you can still be alive: Instead of using her divine shield, have her make a mind blank cast by her permanent. I didn't think of this before because the thing in the AMF spell description that permits this to work inside an AMF ("Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this") is something I always ignore and I, to this day, believe should get the guy who wrote it fired.

Anyway, that would allow you to just go on about your day without trouble most of the time.

As it turns out, that seems to be exactly what's happening. Thanks!:smallbiggrin:

[Recurver]

If the Artificer is worth their salt they'll have picked up Craft Skull Talisman (frostburn?), which is like Brew Potion but for spells of any level. Get two skull talismans of Modify Memory. Use the first to erase your memory of the time you learned the truename. Use the second to replace your memory of the previous five minutes with a memory of using the first skull talisman to forget a particularly offensive limerick.

You know how Mindrape says it can be undone by Miracle or Wish? Modify Memory doesn't. All the artificer knows is that you needed two items to modify your own memory. All you know is that you used them to forget a poem you have no reason or desire to recall. I think you're set.

Sadly True Names cannot be forgotten by any means (GM call) but i appreciate the advice. Either way i'm going to look up that craft skull talisman feat for my friend the artificer. Thanks!

[Inevitability]

Bit of advice for the future: use the button next to 'reply with quote' to select the posts you want to reply to, then use 'reply to thread' to automatically quote all of them, rather than posting multiple times.

[Recurver]

Are you sure that your visitor does not already know? Rushing would probably get you destroyed, which carries no profit for anyone, and letting you know that they were on to you would cause you to do something rash. Their behaviour is not inconsistant with this thinking.
Thankfully it's very unlikely the visitor knows (he's the rub it in your face kind of guy). He really only visits for two reasons.
1. my character met him in the past when he was still a young god and he thinks it's "hilarious That one mortal could do so much mucking about"
2. As a being of pure lawful evil he has taken it upon himself to corrupt my character (who is as stated before a paragon of good) using only indirect methods. reading my mind would violate his own set of rules for me thankfully.

[Recurver]

Bit of advice for the future: use the button next to 'reply with quote' to select the posts you want to reply to, then use 'reply to thread' to automatically quote all of them, rather than posting multiple times.

:smallredface: Thanks. will do from now on.

[Strigon]

Yeah, I'm just saying that Evil Deities won't benefit more from her being Good than her being Evil. So it's not in ALL the gods interest, since it won't matter to the Evil Gods, which was what I was trying to say.

I'd have to disagree.
An Evil God has more opportunity with one Good God and one Evil God in competition than he would with two Evil Gods working together to gain power.
In the first case, both are spending resources fighting each other, which means less can be allocated towards stopping him. In the second, they have more than enough power to not only protect their interests, but shut down others'.

[Telonius]

Knowing a true name gives you total control? That seems like a pretty huge loophole. I mean, you've already got one deity's name. What happens if you start learning others, like the evil gods that are opposing her? "Hey, Blartiflax the Destroyer, whose real name is Bob, I command you to stop being Evil."

[Recurver]

Bit of advice for the future: use the button next to 'reply with quote' to select the posts you want to reply to, then use 'reply to thread' to automatically quote all of them, rather than posting multiple times.


Knowing a true name gives you total control? That seems like a pretty huge loophole. I mean, you've already got one deity's name. What happens if you start learning others, like the evil gods that are opposing her? "Hey, Blartiflax the Destroyer, whose real name is Bob, I command you to stop being Evil."

I have actually considered doing this, learning all of the deities true names is surprisingly easy for my character. He can do what he did to accidentally learn the first ones name 3 more times. presumably learning 1 to 2 more god's true names per trip.the only real question would be if it would be considered evil (or at least "not good") to do this. knowing all of them would make them all on equal footing in the event of my capture or torture. the only problem i see with this (and it's a big problem) is that all the gods would benefit from my death. all of them.

[Starbuck_II]

I THINK I LOVE YOU! That is the single most brilliantly simple and usable loophole I've ever heard of. It even gets around the whole "cant forget a true name" rule. i'm not forgetting the name itself just its meaning. that is so beautiful. genuinely brought a tear to my eye.

Make it a really boring book just to spite the ones trying to read your mind.

[Name1]

I'd have to disagree.
An Evil God has more opportunity with one Good God and one Evil God in competition than he would with two Evil Gods working together to gain power.
In the first case, both are spending resources fighting each other, which means less can be allocated towards stopping him. In the second, they have more than enough power to not only protect their interests, but shut down others'.

Then the god the now evil deity works with would benefit from it. So we are still not talking "ALL" gods. Also, why would he fight a fellow evil deity, if deites of the same alignmet can work together like that? Seems wierd to me.

[Morcleon]

Then the god the now evil deity works with would benefit from it. So we are still not talking "ALL" gods. Also, why would he fight a fellow evil deity, if deites of the same alignmet can work together like that? Seems wierd to me.

As an evil creature, I would certainly wish to keep my power to myself. And if that involves some death and pain, so be it.

[Name1]

As an evil creature, I would certainly wish to keep my power to myself. And if that involves some death and pain, so be it.

Well, according to Strigon, there are at least two cooperative evil deities who don't see it that way.

[Red Fel]

I have actually considered doing this, learning all of the deities true names is surprisingly easy for my character. He can do what he did to accidentally learn the first ones name 3 more times. presumably learning 1 to 2 more god's true names per trip.the only real question would be if it would be considered evil (or at least "not good") to do this. knowing all of them would make them all on equal footing in the event of my capture or torture. the only problem i see with this (and it's a big problem) is that all the gods would benefit from my death. all of them.

Here's the thing, though - a little thing called Mutually Assured Destruction.

Would they all benefit from your death? Yep. Could they risk you surviving long enough to name any of them? Absolutely not. And that's the key point. It becomes a detente. They can't risk making an attempt on you, for fear that you could weaponize any one of them against the rest. Instead, the opposite would be true - they'd start catering to you.

Now, if you actually used one of those Names - any name, irrespective of whose or what the relevant alignment is - you're dead. At that moment, you have proven yourself willing and able to weaponize that knowledge, and they will come down on you en masse just to stop that. But until and unless you do that, you are a wild card. You could be anything to anyone. You could end cosmic conflict in one direction or another. Rewrite a rule of reality. You're the ultimate mercenary until you act. If you do absolutely nothing, they will give you absolutely everything. Want immortality? Have some! Your own private demiplane? It's yours! Minions, an army? Done! Everyone will be offering you everything you could ever want, all in hopes that you will use your one shot - and believe me, no matter how many Names you know, you'll only get one shot - in their favor. And as long as you never take that shot, the blessings just keep coming.

Something to consider. You don't have to be Evil to appreciate the Good you could do.

[Strigon]

Well, according to Strigon, there are at least two cooperative evil deities who don't see it that way.

Well, actually, I was talking about the deity who eventually won the battle for the True Name.
That deity would then have complete control over another god, effectively making two cooperative evil deities.

Unfortunately, for any given deity, the odds that they would be the one to discover her True Name first are quite small. Which means that, statistically, having that information leak out is going to be a hindrance for them. This, in turn, means that - unless they can guarantee that they will be the ones who come out on top - it is in the best interests of everyone to keep this secret hidden.

[Recurver]

Here's the thing, though - a little thing called Mutually Assured Destruction.

Would they all benefit from your death? Yep. Could they risk you surviving long enough to name any of them? Absolutely not. And that's the key point. It becomes a detente. They can't risk making an attempt on you, for fear that you could weaponize any one of them against the rest. Instead, the opposite would be true - they'd start catering to you.

Now, if you actually used one of those Names - any name, irrespective of whose or what the relevant alignment is - you're dead. At that moment, you have proven yourself willing and able to weaponize that knowledge, and they will come down on you en masse just to stop that. But until and unless you do that, you are a wild card. You could be anything to anyone. You could end cosmic conflict in one direction or another. Rewrite a rule of reality. You're the ultimate mercenary until you act. If you do absolutely nothing, they will give you absolutely everything. Want immortality? Have some! Your own private demiplane? It's yours! Minions, an army? Done! Everyone will be offering you everything you could ever want, all in hopes that you will use your one shot - and believe me, no matter how many Names you know, you'll only get one shot - in their favor. And as long as you never take that shot, the blessings just keep coming.

Something to consider. You don't have to be Evil to appreciate the Good you could do.

Seems to me that in order to do that, i'd pretty much have to retire my character (which i'm ok with but would rather not). The idea of a paragon of good "mortal" that all the gods respect/fear amuses me, but only as an npc, simply WAY to much power for a player character to have. It'll make a great epilogue though. i'll probably learn all the names after this current quest is done and then announce his retirement. Never been a fan of being stronger than any other character in our group so i tend to play up everyone else's power and characters (intentionally leaving mine under powered) upon retrospect i now believe the gm expected me to use this "gift" to power myself up, imagine her surprise when i use it instead to retire. lol

Thanks for the great suggestion.

[Name1]

Seems to me that in order to do that, i'd pretty much have to retire my character (which i'm ok with but would rather not). The idea of a paragon of good "mortal" that all the gods respect/fear amuses me, but only as an npc, simply WAY to much power for a player character to have. It'll make a great epilogue though. i'll probably learn all the names after this current quest is done and then announce his retirement. Never been a fan of being stronger than any other character in our group so i tend to play up everyone else's power and characters (intentionally leaving mine under powered) upon retrospect i now believe the gm expected me to use this "gift" to power myself up, imagine her surprise when i use it instead to retire. lol

Thanks for the great suggestion.

I'd like to remind you that the True Speak Skill check you need to actually utilize the name is quite high, so you should make sure you can actually back up your threats. Also, Truename Research is a feat and the mechanic to utilize it is at p. 196 in Tome of Magic, so there very well might be a chance that the first deity to find out won't tell you it knows, but instead researches YOUR truename to get hers.

Your primary defense is "No one knows", after all.

[Calthropstu]

There is nothing aside from a Fusion that could help you with that. SDAs function inside AMFs, so magically protecting your mind wouldn't make sense. Getting access to the pride domain would still do nothing but delay the inevitable. The reason for that is that WotC's Deities and Demigods is borked far beyond what even the BoVD is capable of (No-Save instant death that's harder to come back from than a Sphere of Anihilation? What the actual f**k?).

Against spellcasters or psions, a simple Mind Blank spell works, as long as you don't get it dispelled. Alternatively, you could turn Deathless (undead, but good) or become a construct. You could also self-terminate, which is probably your safest bet since even deities can't bring you back if you don't want to come back.

You are good, you are all about self-sacrifice.

Actually this post touched on the solution.

Have your character go directly to this god and recieve its help. The god should be able to use the no save instant death you can't come back from. Then, pull you from the past into the present so that you never learned it in the first place. The you that knows is truly gone forever, and your character continues to be playable.

[Strigon]

Actually this post touched on the solution.

Have your character go directly to this god and recieve its help. The god should be able to use the no save instant death you can't come back from. Then, pull you from the past into the present so that you never learned it in the first place. The you that knows is truly gone forever, and your character continues to be playable.

... Can deities actually do this in D&D? I'm not familiar with the extent of their powers, but this seems outside their scope.

[Name1]

... Can deities actually do this in D&D? I'm not familiar with the extent of their powers, but this seems outside their scope.

Yes, they can. Their SDA "Life and Death" doesn't allow for a permanent death, that much is true (since Gift of Life specifically allows to bring you back even if you DON'T want this [Reminder: Deities and Demigods is bull**** and the book and it's writers should be burned {at a stake, if applicable} on sight]), but she can emulate a Necrotic Cyst and Necrotic Termination spell which should be outside of their ability to bring back as far as RAW goes (none of that "save for divine intervention" ****).

Time Travel can by done via Teleport through Time, which they can emulate and ignore the material components for.

[Inevitability]

... Can deities actually do this in D&D? I'm not familiar with the extent of their powers, but this seems outside their scope.

They can do it, actually.

A deity with Hand of Death can near-permanently kill the PC in question. Unless deities with that ability of a higher divine rank reverse it, the PC is staying dead.

Then, Alter Reality can be used to duplicate Teleport Through Time, moving a past version of the PC into the future.

So yes, it can be done, but it requires a willing DR 6 deity of death that has at least 29 charisma. Depending on your setting, such a deity may or may not exist.

EDIT: Shadow Sun Ninja'ed!

[Recurver]

I'd like to remind you that the True Speak Skill check you need to actually utilize the name is quite high, so you should make sure you can actually back up your threats. Also, Truename Research is a feat and the mechanic to utilize it is at p. 196 in Tome of Magic, so there very well might be a chance that the first deity to find out won't tell you it knows, but instead researches YOUR truename to get hers.

Your primary defense is "No one knows", after all.
True speaking is not a skill or class in my GMs universe and no one can research it. It just happens to have True names in it. But not a single rule for true speaking is actually used. i tried pointing out tome of magic to my gm for reference but the rules stand as is and true name magic doesn't exist as part of that rule. just true names remain.

Quote: Calthropstu"Actually this post touched on the solution.

Have your character go directly to this god and recieve its help. The god should be able to use the no save instant death you can't come back from. Then, pull you from the past into the present so that you never learned it in the first place. The you that knows is truly gone forever, and your character continues to be playable."


i like this solution as well. if the current fix the gods are trying doesn't look good enough i may offhandedly say something like "wish I had just never learned this name in the first place" and introduce this idea to the GM.

as always thanks everyone.:smallsmile:

[Recurver]

New wrinkle in it this time. I have a new "problem". That "visitor" (read evil god) appeared during the gods casting of the epic god level mind blank spell. He arrived too late to stop it thankfully, but, felt he might lose his favorite chew toy (as it were) if my character killed himself to stop whatever it is he knows from getting out. With this in mind he cast a spell himself on my character. My character is now irrevocably IMMORTAL. We spent the entire last session trying to kill my character but he is genuinely immortal now. The newest problem is this question... is it possible for a group of people playing d&d to have fun when one of their fellow players is immortal? If not i sadly must retire the character. if yes than how?

any suggestions will help.

[Inevitability]

New wrinkle in it this time. I have a new "problem". That "visitor" (read evil god) appeared during the gods casting of the epic god level mind blank spell. He arrived too late to stop it thankfully, but, felt he might lose his favorite chew toy (as it were) if my character killed himself to stop whatever it is he knows from getting out. With this in mind he cast a spell himself on my character. My character is now irrevocably IMMORTAL. We spent the entire last session trying to kill my character but he is genuinely immortal now. The newest problem is this question... is it possible for a group of people playing d&d to have fun when one of their fellow players is immortal? If not i sadly must retire the character. if yes than how?

any suggestions will help.

D&D is about challenges. Do challenges still exist when someone is immortal? I say they do.

Of course, some things will cease being challenging. A lone guardian monster will be easy to defeat. A giant drop off a cliff is no longer threatening. Poisonous or diseased

However, there are two ways in which your character may still be challenged. The first is through harm that doesn't kill you but hampers you, such as ability damage or spell effects. The second is through situations where the worst thing that can happen isn't simply 'you die'.

For example, during a battle for a city, it matters little if one soldier can't die. He's still only human, and the enemy can overrun the city even if he isn't killed. Similarly, when racing against the clock to stop a villain from doing [insert evil act here], being immortal isn't that great an advantage.

Either way, your DM will have to adjust some stuff, but with him being the one who made you immortal I'd be surprised if he isn't prepared for it.

[Name1]

New wrinkle in it this time. I have a new "problem". That "visitor" (read evil god) appeared during the gods casting of the epic god level mind blank spell. He arrived too late to stop it thankfully, but, felt he might lose his favorite chew toy (as it were) if my character killed himself to stop whatever it is he knows from getting out. With this in mind he cast a spell himself on my character. My character is now irrevocably IMMORTAL. We spent the entire last session trying to kill my character but he is genuinely immortal now. The newest problem is this question... is it possible for a group of people playing d&d to have fun when one of their fellow players is immortal? If not i sadly must retire the character. if yes than how?

any suggestions will help.

..This, however, is clearly outside the scope of what a god can do. Immortality spell? What? Why would he bother to do anything at all about a Truename if he has that spell anyway? The closest I can think of is Hide Life... But yeah, it's theoretically possible to still have fun, since there are some effects that will remove your character from play (Permanent Paralysis via Lich, Imprisonment, Baleful Polymorph, Eternity of Torture) without killing him, but it'll be a serious problem since most monsters still rely on damage or similar things.

And at this point, I'd be starting to wonder if my DM would want me to retire the character with all the power he's been throwing at him. I know he brought deities to the table and thus basically deserves every TO you could throw at him, but for him to give you stuff like that on his own initiative just looks like he wants to find a reason to make you retire. You may want to talk to him about that.

EDIT: Looks like I was Ninja'd back

[ace rooster]

New wrinkle in it this time. I have a new "problem". That "visitor" (read evil god) appeared during the gods casting of the epic god level mind blank spell. He arrived too late to stop it thankfully, but, felt he might lose his favorite chew toy (as it were) if my character killed himself to stop whatever it is he knows from getting out. With this in mind he cast a spell himself on my character. My character is now irrevocably IMMORTAL. We spent the entire last session trying to kill my character but he is genuinely immortal now. The newest problem is this question... is it possible for a group of people playing d&d to have fun when one of their fellow players is immortal? If not i sadly must retire the character. if yes than how?

any suggestions will help.

pft, immunity to death is standard build around here.

It definitely depends on the DM. Just being unkillable doesn't render you all powerful. If the objective of an encounter is kill it before it kills you, then yes, this does make the encounter not fun. If the objective is more nuanced, like stop the dragon burning down the town, then your immortality does not directly help. It does mean that you can stand in front of the dragon, but as killing you is not the dragon's objective, it doesn't overly care. A resilient sphere will still take you out of the fight, as will ghoul touch or hold person. The dragon cannot kill you, but it can antimagic field snatch you, and drop you in a pit somewhere, before getting back to what it was doing. You still need to talk to people to get information, which means not pissing them off too much. Ability damage or drain can still leave you helpless, so there is that to look out for too. PAO can leave you a lizard, if not a rock. You will still be 'alive', and fine if you get turned back, but it will be inconvenient. Then we get to the prepackaged high level stuff, like imprisonment and binding. You will still want to be avoiding disjunctions, as your shinies are not so well defended.

Immortal is not invulnerable, and even invulnerable is not all powerful.

[martixy]

There was a "If it exists we can kill it" thread around here some time ago. Or was it "If it has stats we can kill it"? Though it doesn't account for the DM fiat of "no".

Which reminds me... I do know what can kill you or something to that effect, if it exists in your cosmology - The Lady of Pain. Just get on her nerves.

@ace, in this case OP is using "immortal" to mean precisely "invulnerable".

[Name1]

There was a "If it exists we can kill it" thread around here some time ago. Or was it "If it has stats we can kill it"? Though it doesn't account for the DM fiat of "no".

Which reminds me... I do know what can kill you or something to that effect, if it exists in your cosmology - The Lady of Pain. Just get on her nerves.

@ace, in this case OP is using "immortal" to mean precisely "invulnerable".

The Lady of Pain is a weird character... I mean, as far as I could see, the things she does is flensing (which you might be immune to) or... well, she could probably Maze you. IIRC she had this weird Maze thing that took a long time to escape, if you could escape at all. Basically a "Teleport to Ravenloft"-sorta spell.

Though she doesn't have stats, which means that she is your best shot (but also means that she should ever be included in a game ever), she did block deities out of her realm and is known to have killed a (I think lesser?) deity, so if she's available, start to worship her as a deity or kill her little helpers (since those seem to be the two best (and most reliable) ways to annoy her).

[Morcleon]

Though she doesn't have stats, which means that she is your best shot (but also means that she should ever be included in a game ever), she did block deities out of her realm and is known to have killed a (I think lesser?) deity, so if she's available, start to worship her as a deity or kill her little helpers (since those seem to be the two best (and most reliable) ways to annoy her).

She might deliberately refuse to kill you and just ban you from her realm since you want to die in this case. :smalltongue:

[Name1]

She might deliberately refuse to kill you and just ban you from her realm since you want to die in this case. :smalltongue:

If she knows you want this... Again, there are no stats for her, who knows what she knows and what she doesn't know. Which is weird to have in a rules-based system like D&D, but well, Serpent Kingdoms is as well...

[martixy]

If she knows you want this... Again, there are no stats for her, who knows what she knows and what she doesn't know. Which is weird to have in a rules-based system like D&D, but well, Serpent Kingdoms is as well...

Well, her Serenity is basically state-mandated DM-fiat of the "You lose" variety.

[Name1]

Well, her Serenity is basically state-mandated DM-fiat of the "You lose" variety.

Really? I always thought that that was the job of falling rocks...
My theory is that she's a leftover of the 2nd Ed, given the way the gods were handled back then (which is, even worse than they were in 3.X).

[Zale]

Well, her Serenity is basically state-mandated DM-fiat of the "You lose" variety.

Yeah, if Sigil exists just go hide there. Anything that comes to fight you, just run away from it. Eventually our Lady of Pain will get upset with the ruckus and horribly murder whatever it is that's causing a fuss.

Don't be the thing causing a fuss.

Also: As a bonus no gods can come bother you! Because she's very adamant about the god thing; none of them want to wash up on the astral shores with a thousand blades stabbed into their faces, so none of the gods will bother you.

[Name1]

Yeah, if Sigil exists just go hide there. Anything that comes to fight you, just run away from it. Eventually our Lady of Pain will get upset with the ruckus and horribly murder whatever it is that's causing a fuss.

Don't be the thing causing a fuss.

Also: As a bonus no gods can come bother you! Because she's very adamant about the god thing; none of them want to wash up on the astral shores with a thousand blades stabbed into their faces, so none of the gods will bother you.

Eh, I'm pretty sure they stopped being able to enter Sigil completely since the last god tried to screw her over (and failed). As in, full-on wards.

Though if she finds out you are the cause for people suddenly flooding the city, she might consider YOU the problem, so I'd be careful about that.

[Sword-Geass]

This is a bit out of topic, since it won't help you at all with your predicament, but does by any chance your DM like Eragon (or the Inheritance Cycle if you want the correct name)? Since his aproach to True names is basically the same of that saga.

The protagonist (Eragon) as well as Murtagh end knowing the name of the true languaje, after which both of them basically retire themselves from the continent. Maybe your DM wants to give your character that same ending, which was poetic and sad in the book. As someone who loves those books, I'd love that happening, either as a player or, more likely for me, as a DM.

[ace rooster]

@ace, in this case OP is using "immortal" to mean precisely "invulnerable".

I don't think so. He is using it to mean unkillable, which is strictly weaker than invulnerable. He is still vulnerable to a host of effects that prevent him doing what he wants, of which death is only one. He is still vulnerable to capture, for example, because he does not have the strength to escape, nor the perfect foresight to avoid it. Maybe I'm strange in using "without vulnerablility" as my definition for invulnerable.

[Recurver]

There was a "If it exists we can kill it" thread around here some time ago. Or was it "If it has stats we can kill it"? Though it doesn't account for the DM fiat of "no".

Which reminds me... I do know what can kill you or something to that effect, if it exists in your cosmology - The Lady of Pain. Just get on her nerves.

@ace, in this case OP is using "immortal" to mean precisely "invulnerable".

No Lady of pain sadly. And if there was, it's basically that "visitor" anyway. Even the pantheon of the gods combined fear him. You are correct... immortal in this case does indeed mean invulnerable.
They even tried chaining me down and i just popped right out. aka perma freedom of movement.


This is a bit out of topic, since it won't help you at all with your predicament, but does by any chance your DM like Eragon (or the Inheritance Cycle if you want the correct name)? Since his aproach to True names is basically the same of that saga.

The protagonist (Eragon) as well as Murtagh end knowing the name of the true languaje, after which both of them basically retire themselves from the continent. Maybe your DM wants to give your character that same ending, which was poetic and sad in the book. As someone who loves those books, I'd love that happening, either as a player or, more likely for me, as a DM.

Yeah. She is a fan of Eragon. asked her outright if she was trying to make my character retire. she said no. oddly enough it's the other players who want to retire their characters. She wants a time skip of 1000 years and didn't want me to lose my favorite character because of that. asked the other players if they were ok with playing along side an immortal character and they're ok with it( super excited actually).


I don't think so. He is using it to mean unkillable, which is strictly weaker than invulnerable. He is still vulnerable to a host of effects that prevent him doing what he wants, of which death is only one. He is still vulnerable to capture, for example, because he does not have the strength to escape, nor the perfect foresight to avoid it. Maybe I'm strange in using "without vulnerablility" as my definition for invulnerable.

The "visitor" in our last game said he wanted to see what an eternity of watching my loved ones die would do to my outlook on life. As such i am invulnerable and incapable of being imprisoned. Seems my character can only fail by failing others now. this is going to be an interesting challenge for my gm.

[Segev]

The part of me that enjoys a good romance plotline (okay, cheesy romance plotlines) wants to suggest that you use this as a springboard to romance the goddess. You're immortal and protected, so you have time to be with her and to not be "too young" for her. You know her true name, and could have absolute power over her...and you're not abusing that. So, no matter what else happens, she knows you lack ulterior motives in your relationship with her. (If you had any, you could just use her name. No need for subterfuge or manipulation.) That's certainly enough to start building a friendship. And I'm always of the opinion that romance grows from friendship.

Much as I'd love to fall in love at first sight...I don't know that it really happens. Maybe "lust at first sight," but the object of such affections may not live up to the image in the holder's head.

[Recurver]

The part of me that enjoys a good romance plotline (okay, cheesy romance plotlines) wants to suggest that you use this as a springboard to romance the goddess. You're immortal and protected, so you have time to be with her and to not be "too young" for her. You know her true name, and could have absolute power over her...and you're not abusing that. So, no matter what else happens, she knows you lack ulterior motives in your relationship with her. (If you had any, you could just use her name. No need for subterfuge or manipulation.) That's certainly enough to start building a friendship. And I'm always of the opinion that romance grows from friendship.

Much as I'd love to fall in love at first sight...I don't know that it really happens. Maybe "lust at first sight," but the object of such affections may not live up to the image in the holder's head.

I also love good cheesy romances and love the idea, however, my character already has a wife and several children (all thankfully ageless) or he would totally do this. I do like the idea of being good friends with the goddess though. I'm thinking good enough friends to ask her to be my children's godmother (no pun intended). love it. keeping it.

[Strigon]

I'm thinking good enough friends to ask her to be my children's godmother (no pun intended). love it. keeping it.

Certainly puts Cinderella to shame, doesn't it?

[Recurver]

Certainly puts Cinderella to shame, doesn't it?

It does. it truly does.:smallsmile:

[Bohandas]

There was a "If it exists we can kill it" thread around here some time ago. Or was it "If it has stats we can kill it"? Though it doesn't account for the DM fiat of "no".

Which reminds me... I do know what can kill you or something to that effect, if it exists in your cosmology - The Lady of Pain.

Yeah, but only if you're in sigil. I can't recall any record of her direct power actually reaching beyond there. I'm not sure she can even leave.

[Name1]

Yeah, but only if you're in sigil. I can't recall any record of her direct power actually reaching beyond there. I'm not sure she can even leave.

There is a character that suggests she can't in some game. Apparently, she was a resident of Sigil who understood more about the planes than a lot of beings, but she went insane after the Lady of Pain "mazed" her. I think it was Ms. Puzzlewell from Planescape: Torment, but I'm not 100% sure.

In addition, since the Lady of Pain is 100% DM-based, she might not be able to if you don't discuss it with the DM in advance.